PUA Training / AFC Adam Lyons Reviews (Cumulative)

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  1. #1
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    PUA training approach confidence

    Anybody try this product?


       

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    I know the name gambler... not too sure of where from though....
       

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    PUA Training - Approach, Inhibitions and Confidence course. My experience.

    About me, courses taken:

    Okay, so I recently attended the course called "Approach, Inhibitions and Confidence" with Gambler and his guys on Friday 7th March. I've heard both good and bad reviews on this site and want to share my experience so you know what yourselves into if you decide to take one of their courses. I also attended a recent LS Bootcamp between dates 15th-17th in London with Sheriff and Mr. M which went amazingly well and pretty much changed my life.

    Meeting and Intro:

    I meet the PUA Training team in their flat along with the other students in Leicester Sq. and as I'm talking to the students a woman approaches me and asks for the rest of the payment in a fairly rude manner. Then the seminar begins and Matthew H introduces himself and gives a really good speech, answers questions and talks us through the night, a small bit of theory on how to approach, what to say e.t.c. We are then introduced to Kezia who is confident, friendly but blunt. She runs through a small eye contact exercise with us and then we're introduced to Alistair, Alex and Chris.

    Chris then explains in front of us all how there is a Bootcamp on Saturday 8th & Sunday 9th March (which is the following day). At this point he runs through a list of prices for the Bootcamp and explains how it's "original price" (after this upcoming bootcamp) will be increased to 997 + VAT. I knew this was bullshit as I had seen it advertised for the following weeks in March and April for just 549. I feel quite insulted at this point, like they're taking me for some sort of idiot but I keep quiet. They then explain how they will do it for 599 + VAT if us and outsiders attend it tomorrow. But if we pay it in full in cash right now, we will get it for just 549 + VAT. Then Chris looks at the woman (who was rude to me earlier about the payment) and asks if thats without VAT. This is obviously fucking rehearsed and just seems really fake. She replies with a strong "Yes". Chris says "And just for tonight we'll knock the VAT off" and it all just seems so pretentious.


    Content, What happened, Things I liked:

    We are then brought down into the street and do these warm up exercises, kung fu in front of people walking past and dances to get our confidence levels up. This was really fun and helped to free our thoughts from any assumptions, nerves later in the night.

    We go to a club and it's fairly busy I opened a ton of sets. I went strictly by The Mystery Method's routines and chose the course to see things from another perspective in hope to develop my natural game. The instructors in PUA Training basically use a combination of Mystery Method, Charisma Arts (Juggler) and David D's C&F. I found that I was opening sets with no fear whatsoever, acting really outrageous. I really enjoyed this and found the course helped my confidence dramatically. The instructors put me into sets with a line or two to open and told me to say anything from there. It was a lot of fun, some sets hooked really well and I was given a debriefing most of the time after a set.

    Later we go street gaming and try to stop moving targets/sets. It was by far a lot harder then Night game in a club. It more ambitious and difficult but we all managed to stop a few girls for fairly lengthly conversations. Few number closes.

    We then head to Mc Donalds, open a few sets and then we finish for the night in an arcade with the remaining 3 instructors. Us students spoke for a while when they left, the course was over.


    Instructors and Structure, Things I DISLIKED:

    The instructors were really friendly and positive, they were helpful in answering questions, giving advice and debriefing. However I felt that they did not give us their full time. When I was in a set very early on in the night, Matt tapped me on my shoulder to give his business card and left the club. He did this with the other students to, in that case I never got to see him run a demo. The other PUA's Alistair, Chris and Alex ran a few demos on a couple of sets, although I didn't find them to be that consistent or good compared to when I witnessed TMM instructors running demos. They couldn't connect as well and there were many times when women wouldn't stop for them when street sarging. Also Kezia and Alex isolated me (got me on my own) and started advertising their 1 on 1's with me and gave me their phone numbers. And Chris advertised his Bootcamp a second time to me during the night,I found this very cheeky. In addition, the PUA instructors constantly AMOG each other (their wingman) when in and out of sets. This is something TMM is against. Alistair even AMOG me in two of my sets by calling me a Pokemon lol, I found it quite funny. And Alex actually said to me "I use to peacock even worse than that", I didn't take offense to these statements but I did find the instructors a little immature and careless and lacked structure in their course. Oh and Gambler arrived in McDonalds to collect his key for his flat and then left, he totally ignored us as students and barely even acknowledged our existence. Not even a simple "hi" haha.

    Conclusion

    I really did enjoy my course as it was worth the 135 I paid. But I did feel that the instructors were not as professional or concerned in their students progress, unlike LS instructors. They gave off a more "I just want my money" vibe by pestering the students to join another course. It came across as desperate. LS never try to force you into buying their programs and respect your decisions.
    Last edited by KibbsC; 03-2008-10 at 04:25 PM.
       

  4. #4
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    I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your AFCAdam bootcamp. I've never seen his program, but I've met him a few times and always thought he was a good guy.

    There was a lot of trash talking and bragging of other programs, especially TMM. At one point, Adam was telling us about how TMM sends certain students that they can’t handle to Adam. I don’t know about that, but I am not going to question it. He also said that TMM was founded by Mystery, who is a master illusionist, and that his method works for him, in particular because he is a magician and because he is 6’6”. Adam also alluded to his belief that TMM instructors create an illusion of success with women, and that magic is primarily used to DHV. Now Adam’s wording was very clever in that he never directly accused TMM of creating illusions of success. He just alluded to it and I don’t remember the exact words. I have several problems with this. First of all, while Mystery might be a master illusionist, he is also a great chess player. He approached the game as a chess game, with contingencies upon contingency. Every move has a counter move, and every aspect of the technique is designed to progress towards the next step in the method. Mystery does not advocate magic as the only form of DHV. It’s just one among many methods to DHV. The method doesn’t just work on Mystery. It has worked on plenty of others, including Sinn, Savoy, Cajun, Tenmagnet etc., just to name a few. When Adam said that TMM creates an illusion of success, that turned me off. I have personally seen several students get good through a TMM BC. At this point, I realized that I’d made a mistake by returning the 2nd day. So I just decided to get whatever I could out of it.
    Ok, this kind of bugs me. I don't want to bash Adam or anything, but he knows this isn't true.

    First of all, we DO NOT send him any students. Some guys take multiple bootcamps with different companies, and I know that the London instructors have a good relationship with Adam, but we do not send him students.

    Second, The Mystery Method had a lot of magic tricks around 2004... and a hell of a lot has changed since then. Especially since Mystery stopped working for the company, we've pretty much dropped magic all together. Adam knows this, and I'm kind of surprised he would say that.

    Also, when you mention the "illusion of success", again, that's wrong. Every Love Systems instructor is aware of the difference between "flash game", which gets good reactions and looks cool, and "solid game" which is often less visually impressive, but actually produces better results - we only teach solid game.

    Anyway, I just wanted to address those inaccuracies. Thanks for the post and the heads up.
    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
    -------------------------------------------------

    Reviews Blog Products Twitter

       

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    I am glad for one that you posted your review. It is the only way that the people who teach will realize that they have to try their best to get it right the first time and take each BC and student seriously.

    As far as daily exercises over the phone, I don't think they are enough. I would have asked for

    1. A free BC where he gets some good instructors to work with you, if not
    he himself.
    2. A free 1 on 1 for two days

    You don't owe it to him to look at your review and comment on it before you post it. You paid for the seminar already, thats really your only obligation to him except you have to be cool (not a distraction or difficult) when you are at the BC.

    However, it it important to realize that things do go wrong the first time around that a PUA teaches. I am sure that Adam won't make these mistakes again when he teaches, and everyone will have your review to thank for that.
       

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    I don't understand how having a girlfriend justifies not doing approaches. Lots of dating coaches have girlfriends. Flirting with various girls for a few minutes is not cheating by any stretch of the imagination.
       

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    AFC Adam BC

    I wasn't able to resond to the original Adam thread, so I started a new one. To make sense of this post, read the original one.

    Hey Chris3, I almost shit tmyself when I read your post. I took Adam's BC in Toronto and Kyle was my wing! I agree with almost everything in your review.

    Adam is lying about Kyle though. The reason why Kyle was at that Chicago BC was because he wasn't gaming worth a shit in Toronto. I told Adam how I felt in a personal e-mail about the overall experience and how Kyle especicially should've got more out of the experience. Kyle is a really nice guy, him and I still talk and I wanted more for him.

    Any how, He re-assurred me that kyle would get a free seat at the upcoming Chicago BC, and that is why he was there, not because he was "instructor material". Adam also gave me a follow up phone call as well, which impressed me.

    On a personal level, Adam is a real cool guy and I would love to hang out with him anytime. Unfortunately, his teaching style sucks although I have seen him generate attraction like a mad man. His PU skills are undoubtedly off the charts, but I don't recommend taking his BC.

    The Owner- The people's PUA
       

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    Two things to clear up.
    1) This response was actually to ant80 and not chris3.
    2) Ignore the first two sentences, the mod allowed my post to go where it belongs.
       

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    Bootcamp Miami Beach a while ago

    Adam is a cool and friendly guy, unfortunately I have not benefitted very much except maybe being a little more social.

    I tried to contact him many times, over time via email and private messaging but he is not responding even though he said "don't be a stranger" etc.

    The location was not given till the day of the event and made it impossible to plan for the hotel. Once I found the hotel with BC, no one knew where it was being held because it was in Adam's room. This caused me to be late. It was also stressful. Since I was not close to the hotel, I had to drive with a rental, look for parking, etc until I figured out it'd be easier to just take a cab.
    It was still a waste of time and difficult to get there on time causing stress.

    I spent most of the time with a coach; the focus was making as many approaches as possible. At one several coaches wanted me to interact and get a number of an unattractive woman in her late 50s. I was repulsed but somehow got pushed into doing it. Aaaargh. Must forget.....

    Adam mostly was not around during the club outings or at least I did not feel like he was watching me or giving me feedback.

    The day game on the last day was very short and consisted of asking for directions and then trying to take it further.
       

  10. #10
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    PUA Training Bootcamp

    I done A.F.C Adams bootcamp a few months ago.
    I like Adam he was a cool guy but was a bit disappointed that i did not get to see him game because he does not do approaches anymore because he is in a relationship,I accept that it is probably a good sign that someone who is one of the worlds best P.U.As in the world is in a relationship rather than being single .My friend resently done Gamblers bootcamp and said Gambler turn up for a while done a bit of a speech and left.
    I think if u are paying to do a bootcamp the MPUA should demo for u.
    I did learn a few thing on the bootcamp but I have read Gamblers book since the bootcamp and cant help but think I could have learned it from the book as its the same stuff we got taught,
    The thing that disappointed me about the bootcamp was the instructor i was given called Josh .what this man was doing help teaching a bootcamp I dont .I spent two nights with him watching him get blown out by women .I seen him get 1 really forced facebook close ,the girl really did not want to give it to him I doubt she would have accepted the friend request if he sent it.
    Some of the other instructors did impress me I did not get to see them but do much but what i seen was good,
    I do feel I got a bit out of the bootcamp but not 575 worth and another 50 i paid for a email of notes from the course .I did not really miss the money at the time but i have to save to go on holiday now and wish i had not spent it .
    I feel gambler goes a bit to far in how much he promotes the bootcamps.It u believe all whats he writes about the bootcamps especially on the page where u can click buy he would have u believe that u will be a master P.U.A by the end of the bootcamp.
    To be honest i did not really see anyone instantly get better I dont think its possible .There was only one guy on the bootcamp who was good and i think he already had game b4 the bootcamp started.
    .I would have been happier with the bootcamp if I was not give the girl repellent that goes by the name Josh .How can anyone run a bootcamp and have some one who is completely useless help teach.I spent 2 and a half days with him watching him get blown out really badly I seen him get 1 really force facebook close .I would not recommend going a pua training boootcamp if i was going to spend that amount of money on game again i think I would go for personal training off someone i knew was good.
       

  11. #11
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    PUA Training

    Dunne I get exactly what you mean.....

    I did a bootcamp with PUA Training last year an I totally agree with what your saying. Gambler only did like two hours one day and an hour the other not great for the guy who its meant to be based on! Most of the bootcamp was based around Beckster teaching..... hes a great guy but he has way to much material and doesn't seem to know how to break it down.

    I also know what you mean about Josh.... the guy is something else. I avoided him the whole camp an was pretty lucky to end up with a guy called Pete one night and Beckster the other.

    Overall I would say only Matt H who does inner game and Beckster if you can get him to slow down are actually worth spending any money on. An its not worth the 575. Save your money and just get a good wing!
       

  12. #12
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    Despite the fact i started a thread a while back asking why bootcamps are so expensive, you do have to ask yourself why pua training is so cheap(550) for 2 days, where as here for example it is $2995.
    I know a few people who have done pua training and said it was average. And I know people who have taken lovesystems and have said how good it was.
       

  13. #13
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    This is true of a lot of MPUAs, but realistically there are Jealousy and Commitment Issues especially with such a serious Investment as engagement.
    FWIW, that's not true. Approaching and chatting girls up for a few minutes is not cheating by any standard, and I've never known an instructor to refuse to demonstrate an approach because he had a GF.
       

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    FWIW, that's not true. Approaching and chatting girls up for a few minutes is not cheating by any standard, and I've never known an instructor to refuse to demonstrate an approach because he had a GF.
    I can't believe there's any question about being an instructor -- someone who is supposed to show you how it's done and train you -- refusing to...well...show you how it's done.

    At least a few times. And with at least some student input into the process (a competitor I won't name hires girls and uses them only for approaches...)

    Honestly, is there really debate about this?


    P.S. I'm not saying any particular person does or doesn't do demos (except for every Love Systems instructor, where being able to do them is mandatory). I'm just surprised that anyone would think it's OK not to do them. Girlfriend or not, I mean they don't tell porn stars you get paid but don't have to fuck if you're in a relationship. Demos are part of the job, and you don't even have to make out with the girl, let alone leave with her. Don't want to do them, don't teach. Or train someone else to do them.
    Love Systems President, Program Leader

    1 - Read the Magic Bullets Handbook - it's the bible of the Love Systems community, answers 90% of the questions here, and saves you years of time re-inventing the wheel.
    2 - Follow me on The Real Savoy Blog, or my twitter account. And friend me on Facebook for exclusive dating advice I don't post anywhere else.

       

  15. #15
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    You would be better off doing a 1 on 1 with mr m for 8 hours then doing this course. Not that he does many 1 on 1's so im told.
       

  16. #16
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    PUA training fashion adviser

    Last year I did a 1 on 1 with the fashion adviser from pua training based in London. He is also a model. He charges 60 a hour to go ith you into shops . Thing is though he's not that good. Most of his clients end up having the same clothes picked out for them.

    And bear in mind most clothes shops have personal shoppers who will do the same thing for free.
       

  17. #17
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    Any advice on getting money back from PUA training? I feel cheated

    PUA training offered membership to their monthly coaching programme for 1 dollar for the first month and 77 dollars per month there after. However if you cancelled within the first 30 days you wouldn't be billed for the next month.

    "I Understand that I pay just $1.00 today for access to Stealth Attraction, Approaching Confidence, The Social Domination Blueprint, 9 Secrets to landing 9's and 10's and my first 30 days in Master Pickup Artist University.
    I further understand that I will be billed $77.00 per month for continuing access and participating in the Master Pickup Artist University if I do not cancel within the first 30 days. Even if I do cancel Master Pickup Artist University, I still get access to all 4 products. They are mine to keep.
    I understand that I can cancel anytime by contacting customer support at support@pua training.com or calling [number deleted]
    ** This special offer is available to new MPUAU members only.
    I have read and agreed to the above terms."

    I agreed to those terms. I cancelled within the first 30 days, but I was still billed. The other terms were linked on another page and said:

    "31. You may cancel your subscription at any time by writing to support@pua training.com; this should be at least five business days prior to the next billing date. We do not guarantee to process notices of cancellation communicated to us by any other means. You are not eligible for a refund of any subscription charges made prior to proper notice of cancellation."

    Isn't this slightly false advertisement or something as they explicitly say in big bright letters on one page that you can cancel within the first 30 days but on another, smaller one, they say you effectively have 23-25 days to actually cancel?

    I'm not gonna use the service, I thought for one dollar it might be worth checking out, but I'm not really into PUA training that much. Just really wished they clarified on the front page what the terms were, now I've ended up with something I don't want and PUA training now telling me cancelling within 30 days isn't actually adequate time
       

  18. #18
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    If you have an issue with another website, product or service not affiliated with us, please contact them directly.

    Sorry, but we can't help you solve problems with another company. Good luck.
    When I am writing in red, it's as an Attraction Forums Admin. When I write in normal text, it's just me.

    "I remember the first time I had sex; I still have the receipt!" -- Groucho Marx

    Please use the search function.

    A Philosophy of Abundance | Learn Seduction | Online Sarging | Negs Explained
       

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    Is Adam Lyons A Scam Artist?

    i dont mean to insult any puas out there. but i'm a bit concened about something. i found this link (below) that says that adam lyons is a scam artist. i dont know if he belongs to love systems. i just want to know what people's opinions are. if any mod in love systems finds this offensive, then please, by all means remove this thread. but i'd like to know ppl's opinions upon this subject. heres the link:


    MODERATOR: no off-site link please.


    again, if any mod here thinks this thread shouldnt be up, please remove it. btw, i love love systems and what its done for men out there.
    Last edited by miaddict; 01-2012-17 at 08:13 PM.
       

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    All i have to say about it is if you looked hard enough I am sure you could find sites that say anyone is fake. Haters gonna hate bro. As for if he is a love Systems coach he is not.
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddie View Post
    All i have to say about it is if you looked hard enough I am sure you could find sites that say anyone is fake. Haters gonna hate bro. As for if he is a love Systems coach he is not.
    ok... i needed to kno that.. thanks.
       

  22. #22
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    bldon keep in mind Adam is not some perfect dude. You have to know the facts, from what I hear yes hes married, so yes he doesn't make any approaches. Which makes him useless even more so with guys with approach anxiety they need to see the "master" too imitate. And you cant respect a guy who doesn't practice what he preaches.
    This is something I don't understand about Adam he more than always starts indirect to make friends with who ever his is talking with. He cant show guys how to approach in that way? at any moment you can walk away if some girls is unzipping your zipper.
    Pornstars that have husbands still fuck others guys. long term approach gurus still need to approach even if they are married. how useful is a porn star who doesn't fuck anymore? they both just an images
    I'm not trying to hate on Adam, his material is good, I hear hes an awesome guy, hes got a lot of experience its just from the most part hes retired he needs a protege to take over his duties.
       

  23. #23
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    Official Statement

    It's come to my attention that for the past five years, Adam Lyons has been incorrectly advertising himself as having as an association with Love Systems. My understanding was that this fraudulent behavior would end after he was caught doing this before.

    I would like to clarify that Adam Lyons is not a Love Systems instructor, he has never been a Love Systems instructor, he has never held any position with Love Systems and he never will. He approached me several years ago about becoming an instructor with Love Systems, and I stated that it would not be a good fit.

    (There were many reasons for this, but chief among them were his practice of "training" 15-20 guys at once (Love Systems keeps a 3:1 student:instructor ratio at most) and his refusal to approach women himself. To me, an instructor has to be able to demonstrate how to attract women, live, not just talk about it.)

    I have been President of Love Systems since its inception. Adam Lyons has never had any position with us. He never will. He is nowhere close to the standards that we expect from a Love Systems instructor. It's not my practice to comment on rejected candidates, but at the same time I don't want people misled that they are getting Love Systems training with him.
    Love Systems President, Program Leader

    1 - Read the Magic Bullets Handbook - it's the bible of the Love Systems community, answers 90% of the questions here, and saves you years of time re-inventing the wheel.
    2 - Follow me on The Real Savoy Blog, or my twitter account. And friend me on Facebook for exclusive dating advice I don't post anywhere else.

       

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    Savoy,

    My understanding is that Sinn has confirmed that, while a Love Systems instructor, he did recommend AFC adam as an instructor to people who preferred a different approach. It's also my understanding that AFC Adam's specific claim of association with Love Systems was merely that he and Mr. M used to have a business where they were paid to bring hot women to clubs. Are either of those things inaccurate?
       

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    Yes. The first is not the claim that was made. Students were reporting that Adam said that Love Systems sends him clients that we can't handle. The second is inaccurate and not at all what Adam is claiming about his association and "work history" with Love Systems. Though I've said what I'm going to say about this issue, pending resolution. If it's not resolved, I'll say a lot more.
    Love Systems President, Program Leader

    1 - Read the Magic Bullets Handbook - it's the bible of the Love Systems community, answers 90% of the questions here, and saves you years of time re-inventing the wheel.
    2 - Follow me on The Real Savoy Blog, or my twitter account. And friend me on Facebook for exclusive dating advice I don't post anywhere else.

       

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