Be a Risk-Taker

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  1. #1
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    Be a Risk-Taker

    As you guys probably know, we talk a lot here about three “Attraction Switches”, which are the core traits that women find attractive in men. The three switches are 1 – Preselected by women 2- Leader of men and 3 – Protector of loved ones. I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and I think we should consider adding a fourth attraction switch; successful risk taker.

    Why successful risk taker? Think about it – what is the most unattractive adjective that a woman can pin on a man? It’s LOSER. Being a loser is the most unattractive thing that a guy can be. Dumb, player, weird, badly dressed, dorky – all these are bad enough, but loser if the king of the insults when coming from a woman.

    In a game of chance, your chance of success depends simply on what game you’re playing, and your strategy. There are no world-champion blackjack players, because (aside from counting cards), there’s no strategy you can use to win. But in real life, there’s an extra factor – you. Some people, when they take a 1 in 10 risk, win every time. Some people, when they take a 50/50 risk, tend to fail a lot. The first group of people are winners, and the latter are losers. Which category of person you fall into says a lot about your character and ability to succeed in the world. You can also tell which kind of person someone is by the risks they take.

    For example, there’s a common statistic out there that says 2/3 of all small businesses fail within the first two years. From that statistic, you might reasonably assume that starting a small business isn’t really a smart idea. You might read that statistic and think “I’m better off here in the office, working for the man”, but that’s loser thinking. That 2/3 statistic is only relevant if you’re just as smart, competent and hard-working as the average small business owner. If you’re brilliant, talented and you have a good small business idea, your chance of failure might very well be zero.

    Likewise with sports. The chance of a highschool basketball player making the NBA is probably 1 in 1,000…. Unless your name is Michael Jordan, in which case it’s 100%. So when you say to youself “going for that goal is a big risk”, think to yourself – is it really a big risk? For you?

    And this is why the willingness to take risks is attractive to women. People who are willing to take risks do so because they are *winners*, and people who are afraid to take risks do so because they are *losers*. By taking risks, you are demonstrating to a woman that you are a winner… (well, either that or really stupid, but once you show you’re not stupid, you look like a winner), and when you chicken out - you're a loser.

    Let me give you guys some real-life examples of simple risk-taking and what it says about you.

    - You won’t eat Indian food – You’re a wimp and will barf
    - You think Mexico is too dangerous to ever visit – You’re a chump and people like to rob you.
    - You would never play the stock market – You’re not smart enough to win.
    - You’re cheap (even if you’re rich) – Deep down inside you fear losing your money.
    - You perform jackass-like stunts – You’re confident enough in your physical and mental prowess to do things that would otherwise be considered stupid.
    - You’re trying to be a rockstar – You’re confident enough in your musical abilities that you’re willing to risk it all.
    - You drive too fast – You’re confident enough in your abilities that you’re willing to bank on it.
    - You have a bad habit of being loud and abrasive in bad neighborhoods and seedy bars – you’re confident that if things went down, you could handle yourself.
    - You have a healthy contempt for rules and punishments – You’re smart enough to not get busted, and tough enough to risk the consequences.

    Even risks that might otherwise be considered “stupid” can often make you look cool. If I were to do a bunch of Jackass-style stunts, I would probably hurt myself pretty bad, and for me, they would be stupid. But if you’re tougher than the average guy, if you have the fortitude, then one of those stunts might be a perfectly acceptable risk. They only look dangerous to wimps.

    So what do you do now that I’ve enlightened you with this information? First, you have to go out there and take risks, and live a risk-taking life. That might mean a few failures here or there, but if you keep at it, you’ll become a winner. Second, when you’re talking to women, you want to convey this information. Talk (in comfort) about how you did something that might seem foolish or rash, and how it worked out. Finally, just remember guys… it’s *successful* risk taker, not *stupid* risk taker. I don’t want you guys poking your eyes out and coming back to me!


    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
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  2. #2
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    As a caveat to 10magnet's post, make sure you take calculated risks. I hope you are not advocating aPUAs to indulge in criminal activities for the thrill and the reward.

    How cool would you look if you eat Indian food containing peanuts if you are allergic to the said nut?

    It's probably better to talk about 'getting outside your comfort zone' rather than risking losing all the things you care about 'to impress some girl'.

    Risk-taking is as much a psychological trait as it is value-based. Be conservative where it is required(to ensure your survival) and risk-loving in some circumstances. And best of all, live your life with passion and some caution. Nothing is going to convince me to go to Iraq right now(even the allure of beautiful belly arabic women with skin smooth like silk and a hypnotic midriff).

    miaddict
    (If you've never failed, you've never lived.)





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    I'm sure the intention of Tenmagnet's post is positive, so I shall temper my comments accordingly. On the one hand, it is laudable to pursue goals that you are passionate about, and thereby risk failure in the process.

    But to suggest any and all manner of risk, specifically to score tail, to me, sounds irresponsible and even stupid.

    I wish Tenmagnet had given a bit more thought to his post, more specifically in order to differentiate between:

    1. stupid, immature behavior in general.
    2. responsible behavior in the pursuit of goals which one is ACTUALLY passionate about
    3. risk taking of any kind for the primary or sole purpose of scoring tail.

    1 and 3 are stupid, needy, desperate, or even all three. 2 involves intelligent long term planning and pursuit of goals which lead to growth and community betterment. I think we all need to draw sharper distinction between positive activities such as investing money to build a business that employs people in your community vs. driving 100 in a 20 mph zone when a bunch of schoolchildren are crossing the street. Both involve risk. The former is evidence of intelligence, maturity and risk taking. The latter is fucking stupid, anti social and irresponsible. Not to mention criminal.

    Tenmagnet is sketching/outlining a kernel of an important idea so I don't want to condemn this idea while it is still in draft form. But let's elaborate on it so we don't encourage people to do stupid shit to get laid. You don't need to break your neck to get laid. In fact, if you DO break your neck, you won't be able to get laid since your private parts won't work any more.

    PS: As far as implying that someone is a pussy for being afraid to visit foreign countries, I just read an article from a pua who just returned from a south american country. He was robbed of $1500 dollars, his pua friend was pickpocketed, and his *other* pua friend was robbed at gunpoint. This is REALITY, not evidence of being a pussy, or a loser as Tenmagnet put it.

    I am seeing more and more of these "mindless risk taking as alpha behavior" posts, and I see fewer and fewer posts about long term planning, intelligent assessment of risk, and self development. It's sad. I predict scores of "pua's" will be getting clocked in the jaw trying to stick their fingers up people's noses and getting their heads cracked open trying skateboarding tricks to try to develop dhv routines and stories for clubs and bars. People: WAKE UP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenmagnet View Post

    Let me give you guys some real-life examples of simple risk-taking and what it says about you.

    - You won’t eat Indian food – You’re a wimp and will barf
    - You think Mexico is too dangerous to ever visit – You’re a chump and people like to rob you.
    - You would never play the stock market – You’re not smart enough to win.
    - You’re cheap (even if you’re rich) – Deep down inside you fear losing your money.
    - You perform jackass-like stunts – You’re confident enough in your physical and mental prowess to do things that would otherwise be considered stupid.
    - You’re trying to be a rockstar – You’re confident enough in your musical abilities that you’re willing to risk it all.
    - You drive too fast – You’re confident enough in your abilities that you’re willing to bank on it.
    - You have a bad habit of being loud and abrasive in bad neighborhoods and seedy bars – you’re confident that if things went down, you could handle yourself.
    - You have a healthy contempt for rules and punishments – You’re smart enough to not get busted, and tough enough to risk the consequences.

    Even risks that might otherwise be considered “stupid” can often make you look cool. If I were to do a bunch of Jackass-style stunts, I would probably hurt myself pretty bad, and for me, they would be stupid. But if you’re tougher than the average guy, if you have the fortitude, then one of those stunts might be a perfectly acceptable risk. They only look dangerous to wimps.

    So what do you do now that I’ve enlightened you with this information? First, you have to go out there and take risks, and live a risk-taking life. That might mean a few failures here or there, but if you keep at it, you’ll become a winner. Second, when you’re talking to women, you want to convey this information. Talk (in comfort) about how you did something that might seem foolish or rash, and how it worked out. Finally, just remember guys… it’s *successful* risk taker, not *stupid* risk taker. I don’t want you guys poking your eyes out and coming back to me!
    Last edited by adamm411; 03-2007-01 at 04:17 PM.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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    One more question for Tenmagnet: is any of this field tested? How do you demonstrate your risk-taking qualities to a woman as you are talking to her in a club or bar? I am at a loss to see how these examples could help you get laid, such as eating Indian food or driving too fast, visiting Mexico, etc.

    Do you tell the woman or her group that you've done these things? Do you reveal your driving record, produce a receipt of stock market losses, or order a spicy meal as you're talking? Show pictures of yourself wearing a sombrero? Talk "trash" to her to show her you're willing to face rejection?

    I'm starting to wonder upon second reading, if the OP posted this as a test of our gullibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tenmagnet View Post
    As you guys probably know, we talk a lot here about three “Attraction Switches”
    ...the willingness to take risks is attractive to women.

    Let me give you guys some real-life examples of simple risk-taking and what it says about you.

    - You won’t eat Indian food – You’re a wimp and will barf
    - You think Mexico is too dangerous to ever visit – You’re a chump and people like to rob you.
    - You would never play the stock market – You’re not smart enough to win.
    - You’re cheap (even if you’re rich) – Deep down inside you fear losing your money.
    - You perform jackass-like stunts – You’re confident enough in your physical and mental prowess to do things that would otherwise be considered stupid.
    - You’re trying to be a rockstar – You’re confident enough in your musical abilities that you’re willing to risk it all.
    - You drive too fast – You’re confident enough in your abilities that you’re willing to bank on it.
    - You have a bad habit of being loud and abrasive in bad neighborhoods and seedy bars – you’re confident that if things went down, you could handle yourself.
    - You have a healthy contempt for rules and punishments – You’re smart enough to not get busted, and tough enough to risk the consequences.

    Even risks that might otherwise be considered “stupid” can often make you look cool.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

  5. #5
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    But to suggest any and all manner of risk, specifically to score tail, to me, sounds irresponsible and even stupid.

    I wish Tenmagnet had given a bit more thought to his post, more specifically in order to differentiate between:

    1. stupid, immature behavior in general.
    2. responsible behavior in the pursuit of goals which one is ACTUALLY passionate about
    3. risk taking of any kind for the primary or sole purpose of scoring tail.

    1 and 3 are stupid, needy, desperate, or even all three. 2 involves intelligent long term planning and pursuit of goals which lead to growth and community betterment. I think we all need to draw sharper distinction between positive activities such as investing money to build a business that employs people in your community vs. driving 100 in a 20 mph zone when a bunch of schoolchildren are crossing the street. Both involve risk. The former is evidence of intelligence, maturity and risk taking. The latter is fucking stupid, anti social and irresponsible. Not to mention criminal.
    See, you're wrong here. I'm not talking about endangering schoolchildren, but I am talking about taking risks for their own sake, for the sake of fun and for the sheer thrill of it.

    The fact is, guys who engage in stupid, immature, behavior (and who are under 30 years old), get laid. Why? Because they're fun, and because they're demonstrating that they have what it takes to be a winner.
    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    One more question for Tenmagnet: is any of this field tested? How do you demonstrate your risk-taking qualities to a woman as you are talking to her in a club or bar? I am at a loss to see how these examples could help you get laid, such as eating Indian food or driving too fast, visiting Mexico, etc.

    Do you tell the woman or her group that you've done these things? Do you reveal your driving record, produce a receipt of stock market losses, or order a spicy meal as you're talking? Show pictures of yourself wearing a sombrero? Talk "trash" to her to show her you're willing to face rejection?

    I'm starting to wonder upon second reading, if the OP posted this as a test of our gullibility.
    First of all, I don't like your attitude.

    It's most important that you don't engage in any loserly, un-risk taking behaviors, engaging in risk-taking behavior during a date is kind of hard.

    Most importantly, you never want to be the party pooper, lame duck who says "we shouldn't do that".

    But that said, as an example, last weekend I was drinking in front of Buckingham palace and singing O' Canada with a bunch of friends, including a beautiful British girl who I had brought out. The police eventually came and kicked us off. And yes, I got laid.

    Another great thing I've done is I've broken into abandoned buildings on dates, that's a lot of fun. And yes, I got laid.

    And I tell endless stories about things I've done, from being teargassed while filming a documentary, to starting my own business and being told I was going to fail. I even talk about gambling (I always claim I won). Obviously, talking about things is the primary way I demonstrate that I am a winner.
    Last edited by Tenmagnet; 03-2007-01 at 05:45 PM.
    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
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    But they also get shot and killed, get arrested and wind up doing 25 to life spending the rest of their lives with...other men.

    Also, there's an assumption that I have do all sorts of outlandish shit to impress women, in order to demonstrate that I have value, in her eyes. Why not take the opposite tack? That she has to prove that SHE is interesting enough for me to be with HER. Let her prove herself and qualify herself to me.

    Last, do you find from your own experience that people who engage in high risk behavior have any less approach anxiety, or meet more women, or are more successful with women? This is an interesting theory, but you don't present any evidence for it. Evidence from your own personal experience in particular, would speak highly in terms of the validity of theory.

    A lot of guys are on this forum are now ready to risk breaking their neck in order to score with chicks, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenmagnet View Post
    See, you're wrong here. I'm not talking about endangering schoolchildren, but I am talking about taking risks for their own sake, for the sake of fun and for the sheer thrill of it.

    The fact is, guys who engage in stupid, immature, behavior (and who are under 30 years old), get laid. Why? Because they're fun, and because they're demonstrating that they have what it takes to be a winner.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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    Bro, this is a board to share ideas and help each other out. If you are going to post ideas, be prepared for others to ask questions and ask for evidence. The moderators state ALL THE TIME not to post ideas without having them field tested first. To ask for this type of evidence is completely legitimate. To say someone has an "attitude" for asking for personal experience behind the post doesn't make sense to me.

    What I do appreciate is the information on your personal life experience. This is strong support for the idea. Anyway, I like your attitude, in terms of helping us out and clarifying your initial post. As far as whether you like my "attitude" I have no opinion on that and it's completely irrelevant. Good post and I *especially* appreciate your clarification. I'm off to my work out, which is not risk-taking activity per se, but it'll sure get my adrenaline pumped! Cheers!




    Quote Originally Posted by Tenmagnet View Post
    First of all, I don't like your attitude.

    It's most important that you don't engage in any loserly, un-risk taking behaviors, engaging in risk-taking behavior during a date is kind of hard.

    Most importantly, you never want to be the party pooper, lame duck who says "we shouldn't do that".

    But that said, as an example, last weekend I was drinking in front of Buckingham palace and singing O' Canada with a bunch of friends, including a beautiful British girl who I had brought out. The police eventually came and kicked us off. And yes, I got laid.

    Another great thing I've done is I've broken into abandoned buildings on dates, that's a lot of fun. And yes, I got laid.

    And I tell endless stories about things I've done, from being teargassed while filming a documentary, to starting my own business and being told I was going to fail. I even talk about gambling (I always claim I won). Obviously, talking about things is the primary way I demonstrate that I am a winner.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    Bro, this is a board to share ideas and help each other out. If you are going to post ideas, be prepared for others to ask questions and ask for evidence. The moderators state ALL THE TIME not to post ideas without having them field tested first. To ask for this type of evidence is completely legitimate. To say someone has an "attitude" for asking for personal experience behind the post doesn't make sense to me.

    What I do appreciate is the information on your personal life experience. This is strong support for the idea. Anyway, I like your attitude, in terms of helping us out and clarifying your initial post. As far as whether you like my "attitude" I have no opinion on that and it's completely irrelevant. Good post and I *especially* appreciate your clarification. I'm off to my work out, which is not risk-taking activity per se, but it'll sure get my adrenaline pumped! Cheers!
    No problem dude... it's just that I've been out gaming every weekend for the past year, and three weekends a month for the three years before that. Of COURSE it's field tested man!

    You can be certain, unequivocably, that every single thing I say is massively field tested. It should go without saying.

    Anyway, I often come across testy over the net. Don't take it personally.
    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
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    No worries, man. I think in my own case, I am risk taking in some ways, and very risk averse in other ways. I've occasionally done things on occasion, in an unplanned and spontaneous fashion (and certainly not to impress girls), where I've thought back later and said: 'whoa, that was NOT such a good idea (while secretly enjoying the adrenaline rush).' Yet this doesn't necessarily translate into automatic, consistent success with women in particular.

    Also, I meet people sometimes who are risk takers yet don't necessarily have a lot of success with women, and sometimes they don't have ANY success with women. I've met people and have some friends who work in very high risk, physically dangerous occupations. They work with all sorts of hazardous materials, put their lives on the line every day, and yet they go home...dateless. Rosey palm and so on. They took risks earlier in their lives, getting their heads cracked playing sports for example. And enjoyed it. But again, it doesn't necesarily translate into success with women.

    To me, I think it's really a matter of TRANSFERRING our willingness to take risks in other fields, and APPLYING it in the area of meeting women. We have to tell ourselves: 'look, I take a risk, EVERY DAY just to make a living, or having fun in my hobbies, and the risk of dating rejection is MUCH less dangerous.'

    I don't see the link as necessarily being all that automatic (risk taking and success with women); instead, we have to ACTIVATE it. And that comes with a lot of time in the field. To me, that's the biggest determinant of success with women: spending time actively meeting women, whether we are inherently risk seeking or not.

    Anyway, fascinating thread, and I hope people aside from Tenmagnet and I have a chance to contribute, so I'll step aside and listen to others, rather than talk so much, lol.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

  11. 03-2007-01, 07:04 PM

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  12. #11
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    Males with a sensation-seeking personality trait are generally viewed as more attractive to females.

    I once read a study that broke down attraction (females to males) into four different spectrums. One of the traits that ranked high on the spectrum of attraction was "sensation seeking". (If you do some research on "senation-seeking/risk taking" and "attraction", you'll be able to find a multitude of studies).

    "A personality trait known as sensation seeking is defined as "the seeking of varied, novel, complex, and intense sensations and experiences and the willingness to take physical, social, legal, and financial risks for the sake of such experience" Sensation seeking includes risk-taking, which typically satisfies the high sensation seeking individual's desire for novel and intense experiences
    "Risk-taking is not the main point of sensation-seeking behavior; it is merely the price such people pay for certain kinds of activities that satisfy their need for novelty, change and excitement. In fact, many of the things that high sensation-seekers do are not at all risky. They enjoy high-intensity rock music, view sex and horror films, travel to exotic places, and party without drugs.

    Sensation-seeking can also extend to the physical, involving unusual or extreme sports such as skydiving, hang gliding, scuba diving, auto racing, rock climbing and whitewater kayaking. An interest in participating in such sports describes one subcategory of sensation-seeking: thrill-and adventure-seeking."
    You'll notice that sensation-seeking is NOT the same as taking stupid risks. Women are not attracted to stupid risks. Sensation-seekers as a whole have more sex parters - a virtue of their need for varied, novel, complex, and intense sensations and experiences. However, the by-product risk that they accept is an increased chance of contracting STDs and getting a woman pregnant.

    • Sensations-seekers tend to have more interesting and exciting experiences. (DHV stories abound.)
    • Studies have shown that a trait of successful leaders and entrepreneurs is risk-taking. (Leader of Men attraction switch.)
    • "Women view risk-takers as someone who is likely to protect them and provide for them." (Protector of Loved Ones attraction switch.)
    • Risk-takers tend to strive for high-status positions - any high-status position takes a certain amount of risk-taking to reach. (Increased Social Proof.)
    • Alpha males are risk-takers. In evolutionary terms, to become the alpha male took immense risks - you had to risk death or expulsion from the tribe if you took on the current alpha male and lost.


    There is a dark side to risk-taking personalities though:
    Dr. Farley divides risk takers into Type T positives -- inventors, entrepreneurs, explorers -- and Type T negatives -- compulsive gamblers, criminals, people who engage in unsafe sex.

    In his view, a multimillion dollar athlete's decision not to wear a helmet is veering into the T negative column. [MrEsquire's Note: you may recognize this example. Ben Roethlisberger (Super Bowl winning quarterback) was involved in a serious motorcyle accident this past summer. He was not wearing a helmet and had an expired learner's motorcycle permit.

    Often a risk taker has both elements to his personality. Albert Einstein took brilliant risks with his thinking, he said, but on the negative side, had illicit affairs. The late John Belushi was a gifted improvisational comedian, a risky form of comedy, but he abused drugs, a risk that killed him.
    Sensation-seeking/risk-taking is a spectrum. People don't simply fall into the groups: 1) risk-taker, or 2) averse to risk; there is a wide-range that fall between those two values. Typically, those at the far end of the risk-taker side of values embody risk-taking as a personality trait and are likely to take highly dangerous risks and possess a potentially addictive personality. (Mystery is probably a decent example of someone who falls more towards this end of the spectrum - his life has been marked by incredible highs and lows coupled with taking extraordinary risks).

    If you lead an exciting, adventureous life; if you strive to be a leader or an alpha male; hell, even if you are in the pickup game; you probably embody a certain degree of sensation-seeking and risk-taking. Those who don't takes risks tend to lead very boring lives.
    Last edited by MrEsquire; 03-2007-02 at 10:25 AM.

  13. 03-2007-01, 11:53 PM

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    For anyone who disagrees with the logic behind Tenmagnet's post, just ask yourself this question. Do you think women would be more impressed by answer A or B to the question of 'what do you like to do'?

    A. I love to go skydiving
    B. I like to play computer games and watch TV.

    Risk taking is VERY attractive. And I agree about driving fast. Girls HATE it when you just drive the speed limit and no over. There are all sorts of little things you can do to show you are a risk taker. If you think such things are stupid and dangerous, that's fine (and probably wise), but the truth is you're going to have one less weapon in your arsenal.

  15. 03-2007-02, 10:28 AM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenmagnet View Post
    I even talk about gambling
    Not recommended from my FT'ing.

    If you mention gambling HBs will automatically think "compulsive gambler", although they might not say it out loud. You see women are very psychologically insightful and can pick up from your minor little slips about your true illness. Oh, and if they point it out to you and you try to explain to them the theory that some games are, in fact, beatable, whether you are right or wrong, that will just bury you deeper. (And needless to say they are, of course, savvy enough to know that anyone who claims to have won is just lying in a pathetic attempt to DHV themselves.)

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    "You drive too fast – You’re confident enough in your abilities that you’re willing to bank on it.

    "You have a bad habit of being loud and abrasive in bad neighborhoods and seedy bars – you’re confident that if things went down, you could handle yourself."


    Actually this conveys that you're ignorant.

    While talking about these risks may be field tested by Tenmagnet, actually taking these risks has not. These "risks" will impress the hell out of teenage girls, other than that you're gonna come across like a fool.

    I've actually been in 2 terrible car crashes, both caused by some asswipe who wanted to show off his speeding skills. The second time, I wouldn't say my girlfriend who was in the car, was attracted to the "risk taker" who broke her wrist.

    Being a loud, abnoxious prick in a bad neighborhood is fine if you carry a gun. Have you ever actually had a gun pointed at you? No, but you can lie and say yes, if you want to impress the board.

    I think class and maturity are the highest virtues of a PUA, this thread's advice lacks those qualities.

  20. 03-2007-02, 02:57 PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Dollar View Post
    "You drive too fast – You’re confident enough in your abilities that you’re willing to bank on it.

    "You have a bad habit of being loud and abrasive in bad neighborhoods and seedy bars – you’re confident that if things went down, you could handle yourself."


    Actually this conveys that you're ignorant.

    While talking about these risks may be field tested by Tenmagnet, actually taking these risks has not. These "risks" will impress the hell out of teenage girls, other than that you're gonna come across like a fool.

    I've actually been in 2 terrible car crashes, both caused by some asswipe who wanted to show off his speeding skills. The second time, I wouldn't say my girlfriend who was in the car, was attracted to the "risk taker" who broke her wrist.

    Being a loud, abnoxious prick in a bad neighborhood is fine if you carry a gun. Have you ever actually had a gun pointed at you? No, but you can lie and say yes, if you want to impress the board.

    I think class and maturity are the highest virtues of a PUA, this thread's advice lacks those qualities.
    I'm sorry about your two accidents, but it doesn't make the fact that risk taking is more attractive any less true. Also, you don't always have to put others at risk to be a risk taker yourself.

    Risk taking by definition IS dangerous one way or another (whether physically or socially). If you're not willing to take risks, that's fine, but you won't be as attractive as a guy who DOES take risks, all else being equal. If a woman could choose between the guy who "goes for it" and the guy who "plays it safe", she will be more attracted than the guy who goes for it 99.9% of the time. This is nothing new; David DeAngelo covers this pretty well in his seminars, and I would go so far as to say that it's common sense. Tenmagnet is absolutely correct (as usual), and I am very surprised at the number of people who are not agreeing with it.

    If you don't buy any of this, just ask several girls the following question: "All else being equal, would you be more attracted to a guy who jumped off a 50 foot cliff into a pool of water, or his friend who was afraid to jump because he might get hurt"? This would actually be a great way to open a set, come to think of it I say this because there was a time when I was the only person who didn't jump, because I was afraid I would hit a rock. Sure, the girls who were there may have seen my common sense and agreed with it, but I was at a huge disadvantage at the time. They were watching the other guys jump, were holding their breath, and were nervous for them, which in turn creates excitement and attraction. It's true.

    I would venture to say that the example of driving fast by habit may be even more attractive than jumping off a cliff, because it often isn't a consious decision, but living proof that your very nature exudes an adventurous and risk-taking attitude. This isn't to say you're one of those people who would drag race and go 40 over the speed limit, but as long as you drive in a way that conveys you aren't paranoid about accidents, you'll be ok.

    Do you think James Bond would be as attractive to women if he rationalized the outcome of every decision he made, and ended up not making them because he anticipated the possibility of getting hurt?
    Last edited by Rastotaust; 03-2007-02 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Addendum

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    I definately agree that being a risk taker is an attraction switch....

    in saying that I disagree that doing jackass stunts is the same as taking a risk. I know you will disagree with me 10mag but I strongly believe that doing those kinds of silly risks will do at least two things:

    1. It will attract girls who like to see guys acting stupid...or
    2. It will not attract girls who are more mature.....

    So i guess each PUA should think about what kinds of risks he might want to take to trigger the attraction switch of different girls......but thats a question of Identity so lets not discuss that here.

    Overall though...yes I agree...be a risk taker...

    Malibu
    If your not enough without it....You will NEVER be enough with it

    KamaSutra,Sex Positions,Kino,Hired Guns,Inner Game,Build Trust, FTC Theory,Wings of Glory,Humour

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    Quote Originally Posted by uGexe View Post
    Totally agree. I did 120 days for stealing a car and the girls FALL into my lap when I tell em about it.
    Umm, that would fall under the category of *un-successful* risk taker.
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    That's interesting... I was watching Bam Margera's Unholy Union on MTV2 while working out not two days ago and this risk-taking concept came to me.

    My question for Tenmagnet is, How far do you suggest guys go to flip this switch? is it enough to have DHV routines (however contrived) incorporating the switch, or should guys work towards a more experiential approach to flipping the switch? If so, how far? I'm on board with trying Indian food or going 5 miles over the speed limit... breaking into buildings and jacking cars, however...

    In short, is this a "Fake it till you make it" concept, or can it be simply "fake it" (with congruence)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavesToReturn View Post

    In short, is this a "Fake it till you make it" concept, or can it be simply "fake it" (with congruence)?
    Why would you want to fake it?

    IMO this comes down to being adventurous in some capacity... Do you actually do anthying interesting?

    Have you ever just decided to go on a road trip, or do some traveling? Or do you stay in the safety of your home at all times?

    Do you ever learn to play new sports? Go rock climbing? Bungee jumping? Anyone who does martial arts or boxes (and actually fights in some capacity) runs the risk constantly of getting busted up.

    Have you ever taken a job where you didn't know where it would lead for sure, but had the potential do lead to great things?

    Did you ever try to sneak into a movie without paying when you were younger?

    Simply by making sure that you're the best person that you can be means pushing your limits, and running the risk of failure. So just think of an aspect of your life where you really push yourself.

    If you don't do any of these things, and you just coast through life, chances are your life sucks anyway, and you should probably do something about it. Then you won't have to worry about being congruent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Showgun View Post
    Why would you want to fake it?

    IMO this comes down to being adventurous in some capacity... Do you actually do anthying interesting?

    Have you ever just decided to go on a road trip, or do some traveling? Or do you stay in the safety of your home at all times?

    Do you ever learn to play new sports? Go rock climbing? Bungee jumping? Anyone who does martial arts or boxes (and actually fights in some capacity) runs the risk constantly of getting busted up.

    Have you ever taken a job where you didn't know where it would lead for sure, but had the potential do lead to great things?

    Did you ever try to sneak into a movie without paying when you were younger?

    Simply by making sure that you're the best person that you can be means pushing your limits, and running the risk of failure. So just think of an aspect of your life where you really push yourself.

    If you don't do any of these things, and you just coast through life, chances are your life sucks anyway, and you should probably do something about it. Then you won't have to worry about being congruent.
    I'm not asking for clarification for myself.

    I'm a bartender, I know all about being in fights. I've rock climbed, I ride a motorcycle, I have a full sleeve tattoo, I could go on and on. I do focus on pushing my limits.

    I didn't used to be this way, but I made it a point to change my life. My worry with the original post is that by suggesting Jackass-style stunts, breaking into buildings, breaking the speed limit, in essence criminal risks, that people will forget that you can take risks like bungee jumping, rock-climbing, etc.

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    Sorry, should've specified... when I say "you" I mean the general "You", not you specifically.

    And I agree... the explanation of this "Taking Risks" attraction switch needs to be clear. In fact, I'm not sure I'd call it "Taking Risks". It could be renamed to Adventurous or Fearless (might be too strong), Brave, Courageous, or something else. All of those things imply that risks are begin taken.

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    Dumb risk taking isn't my thing... I value being able to stand, walk upright, and being able to chew solid foods.

    There's a very thin line... from being a "risk" taker, and being a hooligan/anarchist.


    These dudes from Jackass being mentioned... they constantly get laid because they're famous, and on the tv. Pure and simple... I'm willing to bet that none of them have game. Well, Johnny Knoxville probably does, and Bam's been in a LTR for who knows how long. All the other cats? Nah.

    IMO

    Marilyn Manson once said, "If you act like a rockstar, you'll be treated like a rockstar"... I'll go with that notion, instead of running into a wall or breaking and entering....

    It might be age, but been there done that. blah!

    IMO


    Great thread Tenmagnet!


    -cheez avenger
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    Exactly. the switch is flipped for them because they have a lens watching their antics (which, out of the lens's view, there's trained medical staff and someone with 911 entered into their phone, ready to push send if someone gets messed up. There's also legal waivers, and what not), not because they sped down a hill in a grocery cart.
    Last edited by lifetime; 03-2007-05 at 12:56 PM. Reason: added the funny

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    One thing that's been neglected to mention is how subjective the definition of risk taking is. Just one example: the vast majority of people fear public speaking. They'd probably rather walk on fire than attempt it. I have no problem with it, and enjoy it. I see very little 'risk' involved.

    Why try to guess what your 'target' or a percentage of targets will find risky, then attempt it solely to impress these hypothetical targets? Quality of life is created by pursuing your passions. Your enthusiasm will flow naturally and shine through, regardless of whether you are viewed as a 'risk taker' or not.

    Live for yourself first. This whole notion of risk taking to get laid implies that you do things to impress others, especially girls, especially girls in bars and clubs, primarily for the purpose of getting laid. I do things because I am passionate about the activities I'm involved in.

    PS: Tenmagnet, how are you defining risk taking exactly? Let's take rock musicians for example. I see very little risk involved in such an activity. You stand on stage strumming a guitar or singing. You practice in a garage or studio. There's zero physical risk involved. Also, there seems to be little if any financial risk involved. Most acts play at night and therefore musicians are free to work full or part time during the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Showgun View Post
    And I agree... the explanation of this "Taking Risks" attraction switch needs to be clear. In fact, I'm not sure I'd call it "Taking Risks". It could be renamed to Adventurous or Fearless (might be too strong), Brave, Courageous, or something else. All of those things imply that risks are begin taken.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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  35. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    One thing that's been neglected to mention is how subjective the definition of risk taking is. Just one example: the vast majority of people fear public speaking. They'd probably rather walk on fire than attempt it. I have no problem with it, and enjoy it. I see very little 'risk' involved.

    Why try to guess what your 'target' or a percentage of targets will find risky, then attempt it solely to impress these hypothetical targets? Quality of life is created by pursuing your passions. Your enthusiasm will flow naturally and shine through, regardless of whether you are viewed as a 'risk taker' or not.

    Live for yourself first. This whole notion of risk taking to get laid implies that you do things to impress others, especially girls, especially girls in bars and clubs, primarily for the purpose of getting laid. I do things because I am passionate about the activities I'm involved in.

    PS: Tenmagnet, how are you defining risk taking exactly? Let's take rock musicians for example. I see very little risk involved in such an activity. You stand on stage strumming a guitar or singing. You practice in a garage or studio. There's zero physical risk involved. Also, there seems to be little if any financial risk involved. Most acts play at night and therefore musicians are free to work full or part time during the day.
    Check out this study for some interesting findings:

    http://www.uiowa.edu/~grpproc/crisp/crisp.9.10.html

    Women were more selective than men in all contexts. Men and women preferred risk takers as friends and short-term romantic partners but only women preferred risk takers as long-term romantic partners.
    This quote also caught my eye. An interesting take on how peacocking might actually also convey a risk-taking attitude:

    Zahavi points to the example of peacocks' tails, the size and the conspicuous patterning of which, simultaneously make peacocks more attractive to peahens but also put them at greater risk of predation. The detrimental feature of peacocks' tails persisted because peahens preferred to mate with peacocks possessing such traits. This preference, it is suggested, reflects the fact that only the highest quality peacocks could afford to have such a handicapping feature.
    Misc. comments on the rest of your post:

    What if a 27-year old virgin's passions involve online video games and star wars movies, but he really wants to get laid and become a PUA? Would you tell him to just be himself, live for himself first, and keep doing what he has always done because he is passionate about those activities? I would tell him to cultivate a lifestyle that women actually want to be a part of - and that probably entails some level of risk-taking.

    As for rock musicians: actually agressively pursuing a dream of becoming a famous musician entails some risk (and just as importantly, it shows you are ambitious). To become a famous rock musician, you would have to forgoe the safer opportunities of getting a 9-5 job and having a secure income. (Let's not forget that the stereotype of rock musicians is that they are exciting risk-takers. Putting yourself in a group with that type of stereotype will pre-validate you as a risk-taker until you prove otherwise.)
    Last edited by MrEsquire; 03-2007-06 at 11:17 AM.

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    I agree with the point of this post which is women find risk taking attractive and that you should take some risks to push yourself out of your comfort zone.
    However I think some of the examples were bad and thats what all the negative replies are about. Risk is a very subjective topic and people are going to disagree on its degree.

    Keep in mind , some things that appear risky are not risky at all. Some people think I'm taking risks by backpacking for days through mountains which are home to hundreds of bears and some mountain lions when actually driving to mountains poses a greater risk.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.” --- Hemingway

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    i agree with ten mag...taking risks, even some of the "stupid ones" is attractive. it shows a certain sense of adventure, confidence, and self assuredness to act as you will just for the sake of the experience. its like some sort of wildcard zen mojo. it works on "mature" broads too, so long as they have a sense of humor and you aren't a complete asshole.

    jumping into the trevi fountain and getting pulled out by 20 machine gun carrying caribinieri was probably not one of the brighter things i've done, but people love the story and the pictures are priceless. i didn't do it for the story though, it's just in my nature to act as i will. (the peroni's didn't hurt either) it shows something about my personallity that people respond to--perhaps its a flagrant disregard for authority or a sense of humor, i don't know, but they find it terribly interesting and have me tell the story to their friends.

    good luck and take care,
    dagger

    be excellent
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    this opened my eyes WIDELY!..the funny thing is that what Ten mentioned about the rist taking is ive done all those...eat indian food...well, cause im indian..lol...break into buildings...haah..memories..fun times...do jackass like stunts..being loud in a neighbourhood..or anywhere..in a public, jumping off a 50 foot cliff into a lake....driving really fast...its in my nature now...STORY TIME!...3 of us were in brand new company cars and decided to race to a location where we had to go..now all 3 of us started racing like maniacs down 50Km streets doing 150-170 km/h on these streets with traffic lights, sharp ass turns, construction and traffic...now everyone that we had passed by..we met at the red traffic lights...other people with their girlfriend in there cars started looking over at us and giving us smiles so there male companion started racing us...and it was 7 of us that started racing because of three random guys racing lol...and not all of them had girls in the cars...I could explain it alot better, but i don't like to right much and i don't want to brag to much..i just wanted to say it cause it was the most adrenaline rush in my life...everything needed perfection...it was a moment in my life i'll never forget....you just had to be there to understand it and experience it. It was reality video game..but anyways..i just want to agree with tenmagnet that girls are attracted to Risky guys..not the stupid ones that are wanna be's..and end up crashing the first time they put the metal to the pedal..it fits into the badboy adventorous rebel...yes its attractive to women...but i also have to agree with adam..that this isn't for everyguy or every guy should be a risk taker, there just not ment to fit that life style...i personally know a family member that is against all these things and you could consider him a pussy..but he still can attract women cause of his congruency and his alpha characteristics...but yeah the risk takers usually bring out the sexual excitement in women, and will end up doing the non risk takers girlfriend ...ive been told by women im crazy for a 20 year old...and no, im not a chik magnet..although i can attract alot of girls but i could still consider myself a AFC at times....So i'll agree with Ten and Adam....they're both right...and cheez avenger, he probably isn't the risk taker but still can attract women, because it doesn't fit his lifestyle, so even if he was to do all those things, it wouldn't look right or somebody would tell him to stop before he hurts himself..sorry bro..i don't mean that in a bad way, you know what i mean...one more thing about how peacocking is also a risk taker...because i went to a Tiesto concert wearing a Tophat like Mystery...but the one i got is very COOL..and different type of a tophat...very mysterious you could say..now I went to a concert I had about 1 million eyes look at me, and the hottest girls in the club of 2000 people were coming up to me and complimenting me..the bartenders, I was the only one out of the 2000 people with a hat on...or atleast a top hat, some guys had there shirts off...but everytime i passed by the girls they were with...they would stare at me like the wanted to sex me there and then, maybe they were on drugs..my friends were telling me you could get so many girls that night..i had the most attention that night...it was scary, but still i ended up leaving with the same amount of phone numbers in my cell phone as i did when i came in...why??....AFC...not knowing how to COMMUNICATE..the most important thing even before a Risk Taker...so there you go...so in conclusion, what ever you do that attracts women do it, don't be a risk taker if it doesnt fit your life style..unless of course, your some nerd, who likes starwars and plays games all the time...although im meeting more women who play alot of video games and there HOT!!!...but still those guys need to loosen up...DAMNIT MAN...looking back...i just realized how much HB's i could of been with, i see how women love the badboys

  42. #29
    MrEsquire Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    That's a great study and I would be very interested in seeing more academic studies related to attraction and seduction.

    I think some of the 'risk taking' activities sound like fun activities which is why I would engage in them. Bungie jumping does sound fun, which is why I would try it. Mountain biking is fun, and fairly risky, but the fun aspect of it outweighs the risk. But as far as doing it with the idea of developing a dhv story to impress a broad in a bar...that sounds lame to me. Do things you find fun, exciting, worthwhile in and of themselves, not to impress people. I prefer not to subject myself to others' whims, but to each his own.
    I'm certainly not advocating doing things FOR women or merely FOR creating a DHV story to tell a random bar girl. I like to live my life to the fullest - which to me means a wealth of different experiences and a willingness to try anything under the sun (at least once). Others may be more conservative than myself, but I will still advocate to them that they should try new things that they are unsure if they will like or not and to step outside of their comfort zone. To me, taking risks is about having an exciting life; women are just the cherry on top (and I'm more than willing to give them experiences that they wouldn't otherwise be introduced to if they hadn't met me). There is nothing wrong with being more on the conservative side, but these guys shouldn't get angry when their girlfriend ditches them to have sex with me after sneaking into the skyboxes of a famous football stadium at night.

    You can find more studies if you search around a little. Try looking up info on "attraction" and "sensation seeking" also. Even though I've seen numerous studies, I don't need them to tell me what (in my eyes) is obvious. There is a certain appeal that women have towards "bad boys" and part of that appeal is that they are spontaneous risk-takers. There is something women enjoy about hopping on the back of a motorcycle, or stopping an elevator because you have to fuck her right that very moment, or sneaking onto a private beach to go skinny-dipping.

    Seriously, bottom line of this thread, if anyone argues that women, on a whole, aren't more attracted to risk-takers, they are a) delusional, possibly naive, or b) defensive because they live a more conservative lifestyle.
    Last edited by MrEsquire; 03-2007-06 at 10:23 PM.

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    Esquire, this is a great discussion. Let me frame this discussion a bit. Risk taking can attract women. But women are only one of my priorities among many. Without going into a lot of detail, at this point in my life, there are only so many risks I can take. Now, if you are a professional pua, then you have a variety of options in terms of risk taking. If you are on a different career trajectory, as most of us are, you have to make some intelligent decisions.

    Women are important, or else we wouldn't be participating in this forum. But HOW important are they? I'm not willing to risk my career and my neck to maximize my lay count. There are other things which are more important in my life.

    But that's not really addressing the issue: girls like bad boys. Let me simply say I'm not a boy anymore, and my priorities dictate that I eschew some behaviors in favor of others. Sorry to be so vague, but I'm framing this discussion in terms of quality of life, not in terms of maximizing my lay count. Hopefully that makes sense.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

  44. #31
    MrEsquire Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    Esquire, this is a great discussion. Let me frame this discussion a bit. Risk taking can attract women. But women are only one of my priorities among many. Without going into a lot of detail, at this point in my life, there are only so many risks I can take. Now, if you are a professional pua, then you have a variety of options in terms of risk taking. If you are on a different career trajectory, as most of us are, you have to make some intelligent decisions.

    Women are important, or else we wouldn't be participating in this forum. But HOW important are they? I'm not willing to risk my career and my neck to maximize my lay count. There are other things which are more important in my life.

    But that's not really addressing the issue: girls like bad boys. Let me simply say I'm not a boy anymore, and my priorities dictate that I eschew some behaviors in favor of others. Sorry to be so vague, but I'm framing this discussion in terms of quality of life, not in terms of maximizing my lay count. Hopefully that makes sense.
    Yeah, I agree with you. Like I said, risks shouldn't be taken to impress girls or raise your lay count (this obviously doesn't factor in risks that inherently target women - i.e. taking the risk of talking to a stranger in a crowded coffee shop and risking being made into a fool, or the risks that involved an increased number of sexual partners).

    I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion too. Even though I was quoting your original post in my replies, I wasn't really directing my comments directly towards yourself and your situation. It isn't my place to tell an anonymous poster (unless they ask for advice) to take more risks or be more like a bad boy when I don't know that person or their situation in life. Obviously certain risks for a teenage college student would carry less potential ramifications than they would for a 30-year old father of two. We all aren't going to be taking the same risks ten years down the road that we are today, but regardless of age, women enjoy a man who can give them a sense of excitement that they can't receive elsewhere.

    Women should merely be a by-product of the risks you take - not the reason for taking them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dagger View Post
    i agree with ten mag...taking risks, even some of the "stupid ones" is attractive. it shows a certain sense of adventure, confidence, and self assuredness to act as you will just for the sake of the experience. its like some sort of wildcard zen mojo. it works on "mature" broads too, so long as they have a sense of humor and you aren't a complete asshole.

    jumping into the trevi fountain and getting pulled out by 20 machine gun carrying caribinieri was probably not one of the brighter things i've done, but people love the story and the pictures are priceless. i didn't do it for the story though, it's just in my nature to act as i will. (the peroni's didn't hurt either) it shows something about my personallity that people respond to--perhaps its a flagrant disregard for authority or a sense of humor, i don't know, but they find it terribly interesting and have me tell the story to their friends.

    good luck and take care,
    Dude... the Carabinieri are bastards! One of my favorite risk-taker stories is about how I went to the G8 summit (filming a an amateur documentary) and got tear-gassed and had an automatic weapon waved in my face.
    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    One thing that's been neglected to mention is how subjective the definition of risk taking is. Just one example: the vast majority of people fear public speaking. They'd probably rather walk on fire than attempt it. I have no problem with it, and enjoy it. I see very little 'risk' involved.

    Why try to guess what your 'target' or a percentage of targets will find risky, then attempt it solely to impress these hypothetical targets? Quality of life is created by pursuing your passions. Your enthusiasm will flow naturally and shine through, regardless of whether you are viewed as a 'risk taker' or not.

    Live for yourself first. This whole notion of risk taking to get laid implies that you do things to impress others, especially girls, especially girls in bars and clubs, primarily for the purpose of getting laid. I do things because I am passionate about the activities I'm involved in.

    PS: Tenmagnet, how are you defining risk taking exactly? Let's take rock musicians for example. I see very little risk involved in such an activity. You stand on stage strumming a guitar or singing. You practice in a garage or studio. There's zero physical risk involved. Also, there seems to be little if any financial risk involved. Most acts play at night and therefore musicians are free to work full or part time during the day.
    You ask some good questions here, which a lot of other guys also brought up.

    First of all, I confess, some of the examples I used weren't the best examples I could have come up with.

    For example, I mention driving fast and a "healthy disrespect for rules" as examples risk-taking attributes. By that, I don't mean driving 120MPH, or ripping people off. Mostly, I mean you don't want to be the kind of guy who has never hit 75MPH in his life, unless you count the time he took an airplane to palm beach. You don't want to be the guy who waits at the corner in NYC for 20 minutes waiting for the light to change, when there's no traffic.

    Likewise, although jackass-like stunts are not cool once you turn 18, when you look back at highschool, who did stuff like that? The cool kids. And who sat at the sidelines and chattered away about how those guys were dumb? The dorks.

    The fact is, there are a lot of people out there who are terrified of risk. They pick their jobs, their neighborhoods, their cars and their friends based on minimizing risk. Safe jobs are usually boring, safe neighborhoods too, and volvos are terribly unsexy.

    There are even a lot of people out there who are too risk-averse to eat indian food. How wimpy is that? I dare to say, nobody who is too wimpy to eat Indian food will ever be successful at picking up women. It sounds like the dumbest thing ever, even as I type this, but it's true. (Those with food allergies are excepted) .

    Put this in your notes guys, PUA=Indian food eater.

    Ok, now I'm getting silly

    To answer your other question, aspiring Rock Star is a big risk because there's a 99% chance of failure. And while theoretically you can hold down a job while pursuing a music career, the fact is your stereotypical "rockstar" type has tattoos and piercings, and wears his clothes so crazy that it makes it very difficult for him to get a good job. One of the guys from Blink 182 said he got a tattoo up his neck so that there was "no way out, make it in music or starve".... that's some serious risk-taking.

    But once again, we're talking about successful risk taking, not failed risk taking or stupid risk-taking. Failed musician is not sexy. That guy's neck tattoo is sexy because he's an accomplished musician. If you were an accomplished lawyer, and got a neck tattoo, and got fired, that would just make you look pretty stupid.
    Tenmagnet (Chris Shepherd)
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  47. #34
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    Good discussion so far. I'd like to hear some thoughts from older guys like myself...guys in their thirties on up. Some of these behaviors seem age appropriate, others not.

    Example: I remember being driven to the airport by the father of a friend. He had just bought a new BMW. Nice car. He decided he was going to "gas it! WEEEEE!" I decided right then and there the man was an idiot. He was pushing sixty, and while I thought it was nice to see a sign of spontaneity from someone his age, it seemed out of character, almost moronic.

    Anyway, there is a fine line between pushing the envelope and getting out of your comfort zone and looking like a desperate try-hard trying to regain your youth (if you are beyond your twenties). In your twenties, no big deal. But as you get older, I think the more extreme forms of jackass behavior cited can be a serious and definite dlv.

    You're catching me at a time in my life and in a line of work when maturity, composure and rationality are at a premium. Remember, there is more than one path to nirvana. There is the issue of age/developmental congruency also.

    ps: I can't identify with the indian food consumption as risk taking example. Love that stuff!
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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    i guess i'm older...i'm 32, although i don't really look or feel it.

    i don't take as many random risks as i used to, your priorities change as you get older, but i still take plenty professionally and personally. hitting runs out of my league for snowboarding, trying any and all kinds of foods, starting a business, driving too fast, to name a few in my off time.

    professionally, i have a job where you either take risks or fade into obscurity; so every week i have to make decisions based on my intuition and smarts and defend my decisions in front of people who sometimes run multi-billion dollar corporations. it's nothing extreme like being a professional stuntman or barefisted boxer, it's more like you have to make risky decisions and justify them to a LOT of egos and detractors who spare no punches. its either that or get left in the proverbial dust.

    good luck and take care,
    dagger

    be excellent
    be desireless
    be gone

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    Exactly. Now THIS is the type of risk taking I respect. It's based upon a passion and love for what you do. It's not to impress girls in bars and clubs. It stems from your authentic self but it also entails pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and improving yourself at the same time.

    I'll let the younger guys hit each other in the heads with hammers. Just pay for your own premium and deductible out of your own pocket...jackasses! (As in a risk taking mtv style jackass, with all due respect).

    Quote Originally Posted by dagger View Post
    i guess i'm older...i'm 32, although i don't really look or feel it.

    i don't take as many random risks as i used to, your priorities change as you get older, but i still take plenty professionally and personally. hitting runs out of my league for snowboarding, trying any and all kinds of foods, starting a business, driving too fast, to name a few in my off time.

    professionally, i have a job where you either take risks or fade into obscurity; so every week i have to make decisions based on my intuition and smarts and defend my decisions in front of people who sometimes run multi-billion dollar corporations. it's nothing extreme like being a professional stuntman or barefisted boxer, it's more like you have to make risky decisions and justify them to a LOT of egos and detractors who spare no punches. its either that or get left in the proverbial dust.

    good luck and take care,
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

  50. #37
    MrEsquire Guest

    Adamm411: It's like I said in my last post, risk will be different (as will the potential ramifications) for different age groups. I wouldn't expect 40-year olds to take the same risks that 20-year olds do. I don't think anyone in this thread is really advocating: 1) that you should do insane stunts to garner the approval of women, or 2) that 40-year olds should do Jackass stunts and keg stands.

    Think about it, when you were in high school, sneaking out of the house past curfew and going to a party was probably risky behavior. Risks change with age. I wouldn't expect to see many 50-year olds taking part in extreme sports - that doesn't mean they aren't being a risk-taker and won't get any women, it probably means they are smart. On the other hand, a 20-something year old that is afraid to go surfing with all his other buddies at the beach is probably DLVing himself. I think you might be making this too complicated based on the fact that nobody explicity mentioned how risks can be different with age.

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    Yes, I think the age/development issue needs to be made explicit. As I stated earlier, many newbs are eager for advice and will literally try anything, especially if advocated by instructors. For the sake of responsibility, people who post advice should be explicit and offer instructions which are not only legal, but logical and supported by evidence. The initial post failed on just about every count. It advocated illegal behavior. Its examples were flawed in many cases.

    Any intelligent instructor will offer the following disclaimer: the following is for entertainment purposes only and all information here is presented as entertainment. You agree not to hold MM legally responsible in the event of injury...yada yada yada. This is just common sense.

    Also, I'm seeing multiple threads on this: noserape, jackass, try anything once. And all in the pursuit of pussy. Girls are important. But girls come and go. I am not going to fashion my professional and leisure pursuits towards one goal only. Do what you fucking love, man.

    You can argue all you want about the replication value of risk takers, but we are the dominant species for better or worse because of the size of our cerebral cortex. I hope we don't need a cite for this one. We are gifted with brains, so use it.

    I think this thread is getting better as the finer points are hammered out.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrEsquire View Post
    Adamm411: It's like I said in my last post, risk will be different (as will the potential ramifications) for different age groups. I wouldn't expect 40-year olds to take the same risks that 20-year olds do. I don't think anyone in this thread is really advocating: 1) that you should do insane stunts to garner the approval of women, or 2) that 40-year olds should do Jackass stunts and keg stands.

    Think about it, when you were in high school, sneaking out of the house past curfew and going to a party was probably risky behavior. Risks change with age. I wouldn't expect to see many 50-year olds taking part in extreme sports - that doesn't mean they aren't being a risk-taker and won't get any women, it probably means they are smart. On the other hand, a 20-something year old that is afraid to go surfing with all his other buddies at the beach is probably DLVing himself. I think you might be making this too complicated based on the fact that nobody explicity mentioned how risks can be different with age.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    Good discussion so far. I'd like to hear some thoughts from older guys like myself...guys in their thirties on up. Some of these behaviors seem age appropriate, others not.
    I'm right at the age bracket 30, and I've definitely stopped taking as many fun risks that are against the law. From 15-28 , i've probably been arrested close to or over 10 times for doing stupid , risky, and fun stuff (drinking in puiblic, disorderly conduct etc) . Nothing criminal. So I would consider myself a big risk taker in those days. ( based on all the crazy shit I DIDN'T get caught doing )

    I've calmed down now but I'll still do shit like drink in public sometimes. I know the fine and punishment but fuck it its worth the risk because it when I do it, its fun. And its not like I'm always going to get caught. Another risk: If a cop is being a total dick to me or someone for no good reason I'll speak up and risk being arrested. I also try to travel as much as I can, and do crazy fun shit while I'm out there but I have slowed down noticeably over the last 4 years. I'd say most of my risks these days are not illegal so its different kind of risk. I'm interested in going into mountain climbing so thats one example.

    I wouldn't take risk for risks sake like they do on jackass. I would take risk because I believe the reward of the activity is worth risk (ex. summiting a beautiful mountain in a beautiful landscape).

    1 more thing. I don't believe that just because something is illegal you shouldn't do it. I don't have to agree to every law out there and follow it. That doesn't make me a bad person. One example is some people like to smoke pot, some like to drink. I believe pot it is worse than alcohol so I don't think it should be illegal.
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    “Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.” --- Hemingway

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    The question is, do you think this type of behavior has helped you with women? Or not had a measurable impact, or had an adverse impact? Good info.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    The question is, do you think this type of behavior has helped you with women? Or not had a measurable impact, or had an adverse impact? Good info.
    The illegal ones had positive impact on women during ages 17-23 because I was seen as a badboy type that didn't give a fuck about the rules and did what I wanted. I didn't grow out of it till 23-28 where it had a negative impact and I was just seen as irresponsible and immature so I cut the shit and stopped fucking around so much. The one example that tenmagnet gave was "You have a bad habit of being loud and abrasive in bad neighborhoods and seedy bars – you’re confident that if things went down, you could handle yourself". Yet that was me. But if you keep that up you WILL end up in fights and kicked out of the bar. And that can fuck up everyones nite. Huge DLV.

    The other non-illegal risks will always have a positive impact. Taking chances while travelling, going to places you shouldn't be going to, thrill seeking activities such as rock climbing, mountaineering for example. Just saying fuck it and putting yourself out there. When you see someone bigger and stronger than you acting like a an asshole and making people uncomfortable, are you willing to step up and confront him? Career related risks apply here too. Risk=Excitement.
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  55. #42
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    I haven't read every post in this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating...

    Risk taking is good. It pushes your comfort zones and develops you as a person.

    Tenmagnets original post IS a good one. BUT only if you have at least a very basic level of calibration. Frankly, if you read that post and think 'I need to go out and drive at 100 in a 20 zone to make women attracted to me', you have SERIOUS calibration problems.

    Obviously there are caveats around risk taking. Like throwing yourself off a cliff.

    I think too many people are waiting to be given exact instructions all the time on this board - this is not a technique based post, it's an attitude post, and you need to take the feeling conveyed in it into your day to day life, not some specific techniques.

    Stop looking to be told what to do all the time and figure things out for yourselves.

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    Sigh. I'll give it one last stab before giving up on this topic and letting it rest. Imagine a world where you don't have to try so hard and premeditate every thought and act for the future and potential audience of "targets." Your very presence in and of itself can be arousing. I found a few links from "toomeyboy" on fastseduction:

    "The Alpha Male and Masculine Power"
    http://www.takeninhand.com/node/248
    a woman describes the effects of being around an alpha man

    "Alpha Male Dominance"
    http://www.takeninhand.com/node/344
    about alpha men being calm and able to admit they are wrong

    "Do you have a commanding presence?"
    http://www.takeninhand.com/node/125
    describing and developing a commanding presence

    For me, I get tired of extending the "dancing primate (read: monkey)" mindset to the entirety of my life. It's bad enough I sometimes do this in conversation. We don't need rules on how to break rules, but don't filter your every act to gauge whether girls will think it's "hot" or not.
    "Less Analytic; More Animalistic."

    Adamm, 8/25/06.

  57. #44
    MrEsquire Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    Sigh. I'll give it one last stab before giving up on this topic and letting it rest. Imagine a world where you don't have to try so hard and premeditate every thought and act for the future and potential audience of "targets." Your very presence in and of itself can be arousing. I found a few links from "toomeyboy" on fastseduction:

    "The Alpha Male and Masculine Power"
    http://www.takeninhand.com/node/248
    a woman describes the effects of being around an alpha man

    "Alpha Male Dominance"
    http://www.takeninhand.com/node/344
    about alpha men being calm and able to admit they are wrong

    "Do you have a commanding presence?"
    http://www.takeninhand.com/node/125
    describing and developing a commanding presence

    For me, I get tired of extending the "dancing primate (read: monkey)" mindset to the entirety of my life. It's bad enough I sometimes do this in conversation. We don't need rules on how to break rules, but don't filter your every act to gauge whether girls will think it's "hot" or not.
    Dude, come on, you have said this many, many times in this thread; it is starting to sound like you are just trying to convince yourself of something. Girls are not the reason for living a fun and intersting life and taking risks. They are a by-product of it.

    You seem to be very caught-up on thinking that everyone is doing fun things and taking risks so we can go and impress women and use them as DHV stories. People are advocating and doing this stuff because it is FUN. These actions are not about women. Women find it attractive, but it is not done FOR them. You need to break down your beliefs on this subject and do some serious reframing.

  58. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm411 View Post
    For me, I get tired of extending the "dancing primate (read: monkey)" mindset to the entirety of my life. It's bad enough I sometimes do this in conversation. We don't need rules on how to break rules, but don't filter your every act to gauge whether girls will think it's "hot" or not.
    Do you still run a routine based game?

    If so, this dancing monkey feeling is not surprising.

    Try dropping all routines and going totally natural. Then you're not trying to impress anyone, you're just being yourself.

    Routines may be effective, but they are a bandaid over your real personality. Anyone who is still using routines after more than few months in the game is seriously selling themselves short.

    You shouldn't be feeling like a dancing monkey all the time - you should just be being your natural, attractive self at all times, regardless of who is there. It's very draining if every time you see a hot girl you think 'right, gotta be cool, time to put on a show', and start acting all cool to impress her.

    You don't need to worry about any of this shit any more. Let it go.

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