Losing virginity to shy less attractive girls(not ugly) vs holding for Queen Bee.

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  1. #1
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    Losing virginity to shy less attractive girls(not ugly) vs holding for Queen Bee.

    I am a 20 year old virgin. It is not a big issue to me, but I used to have this question in my mind, so I posted it today. I am a freshman in my college and I am 8.5 in looks. I get a lot of pre-built physical attraction and AIs from girls that are not 10s. I have gotten some from 9s and 10s as of recently, but I lack the skillset. I do not get dates in cold approach. Basically, I suck at this shit. I do not like to make friends with guys anymore after former friends turning into crabs. I had buzz in this group of foreign people, and had two girls (topmost) attracted to me. But I never have anything to say to anyone, be it a girlfriend (DTF) or a guy friend. I only talk about game if I meet a PUA or non-direct game related topics with people. I do not really gossip or connect at any level. Maybe I lack the knowledge as I never had social interactions. My body language and calibrations are perfect Now this is the question as in title.
    Also I have had girls wear their attraction off as I could not make use of it and I think I might even fall into friendzone or dating frame if this happens, because if I do direct game on these chicks its either homerun or strikeout. I might be able to escalate, but there is not any reference experience to proof it. I have read theory and I know game.
    Since I do not make friends with guys anymore and I do not want to, creating buzz would be impossible and the only way would be to go direct or get introduced by a chick to queen bee, which is going to be rare. My course doesn't involve classes with Queen bees



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    Welcome to the forum.

    Are you on the spectrum?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurley View Post
    Welcome to the forum.

    Are you on the spectrum?
    No mate. I do not know what that is. And thank you for welcoming me.

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    I do not have female friends and I never could make any. The girls I knew I could not connect with but they had some sort of attraction and talked to me until it faded away. And even if made some friends and they hooked me up with someone or escalated on me, then it will eventually spread and my percieved value will cement. I kind of want the skills and girls. Freshman year is coming to end in 3 months too. I would want a little bit strategic advice on how to lead from where I am at. Also I am not gonna do nightgame anymore. I will focus on daygame, eventhough college calls for higher purpose and responsibility in terms of time devotion.
    Also I am a loner and don't have friends. I do not like much social obligations anyway. Time is precious. Eventhough in a small fishbowl like college, I must have been categorized as a weird loner (why? cuz most are loners cuz they lack something). Now maybe my body language and general happy mood prevents it. As of now, I do not feel uncomfortable being alone. Earlier, eventhough I had made a conscious decision not to make friends, I would worry what people would think of me having no friends. I would like you guys thoughts on this. I wish Braddock was active. Looks like he went away. So did Cajun I believe.
    And Its awesome that Hurley replied. I do not know much about Hurley but I saw the 20 questions post recommended by Savvoy and that made an impression.

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    I'll be honest, I have very little clue what on earth your situation is. Your posts are extremely hard to follow and all over the place.

    Hurley's reference to 'the spectrum' is referring to aspergers/autistic spectrum. I think that's probably a legitimate question to ask actually. Have you ever spoken to anyone about this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    I'll be honest, I have very little clue what on earth your situation is. Your posts are extremely hard to follow and all over the place.

    Hurley's reference to 'the spectrum' is referring to aspergers/autistic spectrum. I think that's probably a legitimate question to ask actually. Have you ever spoken to anyone about this?
    My parents are doctors. I believe if I had that shit they would have told me. And I too refrain from thinking I have any disease or handicap. Also I might be too focused on outcome above. I can't defy the waterfall principle in college. I want the queen bee but I have no cold approach skill. If I do not want to make friends with guys, do you think there is a way I should go about things? I am thinking of aiming for a decently attractive girl if I can't get queen bee first. Because there are a few girls who give AIs(will have to warm approach them).
    I feel like I am missing a lot out of college as they say college is the best place and motherfuckers get laid a lot in there. I remember Braddock talks with an intern about making a transition from cold approach to social circle game when you are good enough. I have seen that I drop in value and buzz as I do not speak. It seems like people can see that and power can no longer be maintained in the trees that know me.

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    I'll be perfectly honest with you dude, the fact you don't want to make friends with people is weird and you need to get over that.
    You can also forget about any kind of social circle game if you're not willing to make friends with people since that is quite a core tenant of social circle game.

    I think you should thoroughly explore why you don't want to make friends before you think about anything else.
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    I always had friends that would speak other language(foreign - non english) and I would get isolated. I have had that in two colleges I had joined and one from where I dropped out. At first, I would have buzz and girls attracted to me and then they won't talk to me, expecting me to make a move and I won't have things to say. Even with guys, I do not talk anything. I have always talked about girls. Now to quote Nick's words again, guys talk about pussy, bear, sports and drinks. But I do none of that. And this is a pattern ingrained in my head which further prevents me from making friends. Even making friends with Americans, it for some reason turned opposite as they stopped talking. There is not much common ground to connect on and neither is an effort to take part. Do you think I should focus on cold approach then? Because I wanted to make use of the fact that I am in college. But I am getting nowhere in any area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    Do you think I should focus on cold approach then?
    No. Focus on socializing. Plan to spend at least your entire sophomore year on it.

    Also, pack away your copy of Social Circle Mastery and stop talking about buzz, hold on with the advanced social circle game until you have basic social skills.

    Where do you live? What is your primary language?

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    I am in Milwaukee now. I can speak english. What do you think about making friends with freshman coming this year? But won't that be a drop in value if a sophomore is hanging out with freshmen as I don't see any different year people hanging out together. What kind of socializing do you talk about? What about 70% cold approach and 30% social circle game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    But won't that be a drop in value if a sophomore is hanging out with freshmen
    If I understood you right, you don't hang with anyone right now. There is no lower value than that.

    Anyway, enough with this.

    Several people have told you that you should probably focus more on socializing than on game. If that's something you want to do, then let's talk about actionable steps in that direction.

    If you insist on cold approaching, then go out and approach and post a field report.

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    Most guys on my dorm floor are into video games. I do nothing all day. So I have time for college and then I used to do cold approach but have stopped. Will start again. Anyway, Let's talk about actionable steps. I am acquaintances with my lab partner who is a girl (gatekeeper; no attraction). I am also acquaintances with two sophomores. The sophomores on my floor don't really communicate with me. My ex-maths professor (social connector) seems to want to hook up wid me as she always keeps hinting me to see her. Then I knew a girl who is low value(very ugly) but would approach everyone on campus. I have bad relations with social connector on my floor, which soon might be changed in few months when I become a sophomore. Each floor has a social connector (because they are Residence Assistants). I do see a guy that I suspected to be a natural but he was reactive and he is a perfect thin slice. That guy looks like a player. Do you know how to sniper approach him and get started?
    Also groups have been formed as freshmans have had more time in university. I can join a particular group that might be a good thin slice. And the sports team guys are value leaches and suck. It is a very small college of about 2985 people. Girls constitute 39%. Also assume that the only social skills I have were as if I had read How to Win Friends and Influence people. And I do not get AA. Fashion is on top, I am 8.5 in looks.

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    Stop using terminology. Do you even know what you're talking about. "sniper approach" the natural. Do you even know what you mean by that?
    If you want to talk to someone just start talking to them. Stop this terminology stuff because its going to completely mess you up, I can guarantee you that.

    Also stop this rating of people in terms of value/looks etc.

    Right now from what you've written, you're very messed up by game. Look, you're a virgin with very little if any friends. Your first priority should be to fix the fiends issue and if you're a virgin just get some sexual experience. Forget about all this queen bee stuff for now.

    If you have no AA as claimed then why are you not out cold approaching? Why did you stop?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Stop using terminology. Do you even know what you're talking about. "sniper approach" the natural. Do you even know what you mean by that?
    If you want to talk to someone just start talking to them. Stop this terminology stuff because its going to completely mess you up, I can guarantee you that.

    Also stop this rating of people in terms of value/looks etc.

    Right now from what you've written, you're very messed up by game. Look, you're a virgin with very little if any friends. Your first priority should be to fix the fiends issue and if you're a virgin just get some sexual experience. Forget about all this queen bee stuff for now.

    If you have no AA as claimed then why are you not out cold approaching? Why did you stop?
    I have had 2 instant dates from daygame, 3-4 day2s and some makeouts from nightgame. Girls always escalated on me in nightclub and left their friends for me. I lose in interaction after opening. Some girls even said I nosedive in the interaction. With weather getting worse, I just focused on college and thought I would do game 6 months and 6 months college and theory, inner game. I would go out so much, I would not read theory at all. I had gotten past hook points in nightgame, but then it would fail. Now, I only hooked two sets and they were very good but flakes. One was closing a bar tender and other was two set. Last approach was 3 days ago. I tend to do things in extreme. I commit to one thing and it kind of erodes other areas. I had then fallen into trap of procastrination with college work and would just go to gym.
    Okay Let's focus on getting friends that I would like and improving conversational and social skills ? Should I approach a shy girl in college that is lonely and used to give AIs and whom I would ignore? She must be sexually attracted? She has no friends. should I cold approach loner girls on campus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    I have had 2 instant dates from daygame, 3-4 day2s and some makeouts from nightgame. Girls always escalated on me in nightclub and left their friends for me. I lose in interaction after opening. Some girls even said I nosedive in the interaction. With weather getting worse, I just focused on college and thought I would do game 6 months and 6 months college and theory, inner game. I would go out so much, I would not read theory at all. I had gotten past hook points in nightgame, but then it would fail. Now, I only hooked two sets and they were very good but flakes. One was closing a bar tender and other was two set. Last approach was 3 days ago. I tend to do things in extreme. I commit to one thing and it kind of erodes other areas. I had then fallen into trap of procastrination with college work and would just go to gym.
    Okay Let's focus on getting friends that I would like and improving conversational and social skills ? Should I approach a shy girl in college that is lonely and used to give AIs and whom I would ignore? She must be sexually attracted? She has no friends. should I cold approach loner girls on campus?
    So many random statements, observations, game terminology and questions at once, you're all over the place.

    You write that you commit extremely to one thing and let others erode. That's not the way to learn game or achieve anything in life, it's dabbling and it's definitely not the way to socialize. Getting and having friends is about forming long-term relations with other humans. You've gotta commit to consistent practice.

    So, enough ramblings. Please post a field report from some of your approaches or conversations where you tried to connect with a person, using this template: http://www.theattractionforums.com/f...i-journal.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    So many random statements, observations, game terminology and questions at once, you're all over the place.

    You write that you commit extremely to one thing and let others erode. That's not the way to learn game or achieve anything in life, it's dabbling and it's definitely not the way to socialize. Getting and having friends is about forming long-term relations with other humans. You've gotta commit to consistent practice.

    So, enough ramblings. Please post a field report from some of your approaches or conversations where you tried to connect with a person, using this template: http://www.theattractionforums.com/f...i-journal.html
    I have 100s of voice recording about this saved. I have a journal. I will post a glimpse as I did not compile it enough.
    http://www.theattractionforums.com/g...ml#post1028280
    I am also going to start a completely new model of game now. So the sticky points might not corelate that much but are still worth and I will have newer ones too. I even have ones from the approach I did 3 days ago. Everything has been broken down.

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    Not quite what I suggested. That seems like personal notes from studying game theory. It's the exact opposite of what will help you.

    Field reports. About interactions with women. Like this: http://www.theattractionforums.com/f...ay-vision.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Not quite what I suggested. That seems like personal notes from studying game theory. It's the exact opposite of what will help you.

    Field reports. About interactions with women. Like this: http://www.theattractionforums.com/f...ay-vision.html
    Those were answers to my mistakes and sticky points that I altered from what I was doing wrong to focus on correct things. I understand what you mean.
    Daygame set that I did 3 days ago-
    After reading some misogynistic bullshit on reddit that had hijacked my mind, I was glad my new wing made me positive and normal again. Towards the end of the day, I was walking from my local grocery store having purchased some puddings. Since game is a part of me being and not doing, this was my first approach where I wasn't delibrately out to cold approach. After all, it had been a long time too. I heard her footsteps and felt her feminine energy coming from behind me. She crossed me. It was red light. She had to stop. While she crossed me on the road,
    PUA: Excuse me, (she turns) you look absolutely intriguing.
    HB: *About to reject*
    PUA: *cuts* I have no time and business here. I was just going back to my place. You look compelling. I am MutantX, Who are you?
    HB: I am HB.
    PUA: I wouldn't say you go to college. You look like you work at starbucks or something. (she had purple hair, which I linked to this).
    HB: Oh no, I go to art college.
    PUA: Really? College name *censored*
    HB: No, I go to chicago.
    PUA: Do you live here?
    HB: *seems not interested*
    PUA: *about to eject*
    HB: reinitiates - Where do you live?
    PUA: *unconscious takeaway/bodyrock* Oh I live here (points at college)
    HB: (green light starts to move)
    PUA: Where you going?
    HB: Home.
    PUA: Let me walk you two minutes, I wanna find out more about you. I will go away.
    HB: No I gotta meet somebody (obvious lie + rejection)
    PUA: What do you think about coffee with a cute boy? (body was turned away from her due to rejection)
    HB: No thank you (polite smile and walks away)


    Analysis:
    A creative way could have been to ask if she does anything as artistic as her outlook and hairstyle.
    Then I could have qualified her No wonder ( when she would have answered art school)
    Also the way of asking where she is going was wrong.
    Also do not ask for permission, but walk with. And be vague in telling them where you are going. Just say I am walking.

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    She lived here too. She had said that. I forgot to add that.

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    That kind of reporting may actually lead to something helpful.

    You approached, got the girl to stop, got her to stay for a little while and you didn't eject too early. Good start.

    The spoken words, well, there's definitely lots of room for improvement but it's not completely terrible, it can't be the entire reason you're not getting further.

    If all your approaches are like this, but they all end pretty quickly or the girls are very eager to excuse themselves, then your sticking point lies more in your non-verbals rather than the interaction. That is also consistent with the vibe I've gotten from you so far. If that's the case then you need to focus on that, possibly it would be helpful to have someone experienced observe your approach like an experienced wingman (someone who does game and actually lays women) or a dating coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    HB: No I gotta meet somebody (obvious lie + rejection)
    Try not to think of it as a lie. It may or may not be true that she is meeting someone or going somewhere, but think more of it as a polite way to reject you. It means that she is a nice girl that doesn't want to hurt your feelings, but she doesn't feel comfortable around you either. It simply means that you have more work to do, so keep practicing, and as said earlier, preferably more practice through warm approach in social settings rather than through cold approach. (Maybe something like 90%/10%)

    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    Also do not ask for permission, but walk with
    The thought behind is ok but remember there's a line between persistence and harassment. If a girl excuses herself more than two times, then thank her for the chat, wish her a nice day and eject from the approach. Don't follow her.

    Post more like this, in the field report section, and wait for guys to give you feedback, then you may be well on your way to improving in this area.

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    Thank You for getting back to me. My main concern is to ask you about what you believe might be wrong with non-verbals and vibe? I believe my body language is good. I have had two wings watch me overnight and they say my interactions look like I am killing it.
    Also can you throw some light on verbal improvement.
    what do you think about four times rule?
    And I would not want to create an approaching rep in college, but then again as you said if I am a loner I have no rep already. Maintaining high status in social circle was always difficult cuz I would not have interesting things to say. And maybe you can only be interested till a certain point and then people want to know about you. Most of my life has been spent in isolation and inactivity. So I do not have much to say. Also past patterns always saw guys having fear, envy and jealousy with me and them turning into crabs. That is why I said I don't like to make friends with guys. Also now I am afraid of negative talks spreading about me that might be about some low value thing I did in an interaction with guys or about my lifestyle and life.

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    I think the four times rule is a very unhealthy concept for you, it will get you kicked out of places. It's for guys who are good are reading social cues. Don't approach the same girl repeatedly. Get into some social activities instead.

    No one can evaluate your vibe and body language without meeting you. If your wings think you're killing it, when you are clearly not, and you think that your body language is good, when you don't get laid, then they are not qualified to offer you advice and you are not qualified to self-correct. I suggest getting in touch with a coach.

    When you describe that you have spent most of your life in isolation, well, then I must say that the solution is to get out of isolation. You can't learn from cold approach if you have a basic lack of social intelligence and have an inability to read patterns and body language such as people frowning out of discomfort, girls tensing up, people wanting you to leave etc. Getting a feel for that kind of stuff, when you didn't learn it naturally growing up, is learned by attending social stuff. A lot. Like seriously a lot. Hundreds and hundreds of hours.

    So to conclude this, you can post some more field reports in the field report section, but more importantly, you should find some ways to get out of isolation. All time spent reading pickup, watching tv-shows, movies, manga or reading comics or self-help books, playing computer-games (including MMO or other social games) or anything else you do alone or from home, that time should be spent doing stuff with other people. Some ideas are volunteering, joining extra curricular activities, going out with your classmates, attending parties (then you can even do some approaches), joining a sport's club, taking evening classes and much more.

    If you get serious about this, you can make a journal about your efforts to get your social life back on track. But if you want people to respond, you gotta quit all the theories, hypothetical questions and game lingo.

    Best of luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    My parents are doctors. I believe if I had that shit they would have told me.
    There's plenty of legitimate reasons your parents would not have had you diagnosed. Your posts exhibit a lot of asperger symptoms.

    To your original question: it doesn't really matter who you lose your virginity to. You seem only concerned with social status, and you're going to get more social status from having sex with the average woman first and the hot woman later than vice-versa.

    At the moment it doesn't seem like you actually have any sexual offers so don't worry about decisions you don't actually have to make right now.

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    You maybe right. I might have aspergers. When I was young, I had cancer. I lost a kidney and my parents never got me a new one. I told this to my friend once and he was ashamed about this fact. My parents never told me anything about me or anything. They even tried to keep away from this topic. But the scar was obvious.
    And Tank maybe you are right. I have had a set where I was unable to read cues. I tried to look what the girl code meant, but it never had any expressions. But in many cases, I could see girls wanting to avoid me and leave.

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    MutantX a lot of people don't "naturally" learn to read social cues. I am one of them. The good news is, if you study a little bit, you can teach yourself to be good at it.

    I realized this when I noticed men + women were "avoiding" me or otherwise reacting negatively. People are too polite to say to your face when they get a weird vibe so it's hard to learn organically.

    You should try to make friends with a "natural". You need someone who can give you blunt feedback.

    Trying to build "game" before you have established basic social skills is like trying to learn calculus when algebra still confuses you. Even though it's not an obvious connection, having a group of cool friends + being able to interact normally with strangers of any age/gender will, at this stage, push your success rate further and faster than studying advanced pickup tactics.

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    MutantX, 4 people now have pretty much had the same suspicion that you might have aspergers. I highly recommend that you go to a doctor and just find out if that's the case or not.

    Because if you do then that will also impact how you approach learning game, as aspergers people often have a harder time than most learning social cues. If it's something you're aware of then you can consciously work with that in mind but if not then it can be harder.
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    I feel like a victim on readimg all what you guys wrote. Its like I am not that cool guy anymore and the confidence and inner game was all fake. Please comment

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    And yeah I approached that natural. I could see he was packing things to go away when I approached, but then I left. I had introduced false time constraint anyway. He had girls all over him later today and he most of the times is alone. When I was leaving, he shook my hand saying his name. Maybe that was a good sign. First he would have been like oh my god what does this guy want is he gonna sit here all day. I asked my school safety for doctors and they freaked out. I was able to read his cues. His face became plain. He thought I was going crazy. Tomorrow, I will go see if the clinic can check me up. I am at unease now. And even doing pickup with almost 300 approaches has made me mentally stronger than before. I used to be a victim before and would find guilty pleasure. But no more. But this is no excuse. Its going to be very hard, but it will be worth it.

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    Also that natural did most of the talking himself eventhough he was packing up. Do you guys have any plans by which I can make friends with him if I get sticky? How do I give him good emotions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    I'll be perfectly honest with you dude, the fact you don't want to make friends with people is weird and you need to get over that.
    You can also forget about any kind of social circle game if you're not willing to make friends with people since that is quite a core tenant of social circle game.

    I think you should thoroughly explore why you don't want to make friends before you think about anything else.
    I do not like guys unless they are PUAs or naturals or someone that matches a certain value (which at this point doesn't exist as I do not like anything). I would only invest in such people. I do not cater to people anymore or take part in people pleasing or seek approval of anyone.
    Some people on a forum I used to visit earlier, also pointed out if I have aspergers. I have scheduled an appointment and it is on 31st March. We will see what happens.

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    Most motherfuckers don't want know who they are, what they want out of life, live in reaction or are guided by their ego shit. Many change on whim when a woman comes around. If people do not treat me with respect or how I want to be treated, I am not gonna develop a liking for them. I am not gonna rebuke them, but I won't engage them. I am not gonna put up with bullshit girls either, but while learning cold approach, I do not have pre concieved notions about women. I open all. It was a hard time learning that not everyone has to like me and it goes vice-versa for me too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    I feel like a victim on readimg all what you guys wrote. Its like I am not that cool guy anymore and the confidence and inner game was all fake. Please comment
    You have to understand that everyone on here wants you to find happiness. What you're reading is "constructive criticism"- emphasis on constructive.

    If you're open to re-examining your assumptions about yourself, and work on improving the things you're not as strong at... that is how you will get truly skilled, and build authentic confidence.

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    Okay I understand. I did had lulls yesterday.
    I now believe in myself fully. I know I am worthy and of value. No amount of disability is gonna hold me down or become an excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    Do you guys have any plans by which I can make friends with him if I get sticky? How do I give him good emotions?
    Read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. Read it again. Re-read it every year.

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    Is it okay to read all the statements of facts and behaviors I have underlined in it but skip story examples? If that's okay I will be able to read more books too. And I enjoy reading the facts so much that I was thinking of creating a document of them as a summary. I do have some stories underlined that give clear example and more information. Its catered to my understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MutantX View Post
    Is it okay to read all the statements of facts and behaviors I have underlined in it but skip story examples? If that's okay I will be able to read more books too. And I enjoy reading the facts so much that I was thinking of creating a document of them as a summary. I do have some stories underlined that give clear example and more information. Its catered to my understanding.
    I don't even understand what half of the stuff you talk about means anymore, but it sure ain't about game.

    Please keep questions and discussions game-related, specific and non-hypothetical.

    /thread

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