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Trigger99
06-06-2009, 06:00 AM
I'm sure some PUA out there is going to be a dumbass and say, "Well that's not the worse thing that could happen, I got this one girl pregnant just last week!"

Okay great for whoever you are, but just bare with me on this.

I work a nightshift so I usually sleep between 9 am to 5pm, somewhat regularly, and there's this girl that I like and have been talking to for about a month now. I'm really into her, her two passions are books and running. Her name will be Ingrid (it's not her name, it's just a name I like). Anyways Ingrid calls me around 4pm. And we get some small talk in,

Me: Hey what's up!

HB: Hey, what are you doing right now.

Me: I am currently almost naked in bed, how about you? (I sleep in my underwear)

Some small talk.

HB: Yah I just wanted to talk to you about your book!
(I'm writing a book if anyone remembers from my past threads, and I decided to shoot over some chapters to her.)

Me: Oh yah, how'd I do?

HB: Well I read the chapters you sent me but I was really more interested about your other writing.

Me: What other writing? What are you talking about?

HB: You know you're other writing.

Me: I don't know what your talking about?

HB: Your writing about how you're a pick up artist.

!!!!

She tells me that she just found every single piece of literature I wrote on being a pick up artist. EVVVERRRYTHING! She found this site! She found my blogspot that I don't share to anyone, and she found my myspace.

Well we all know what this site is to me and everyone else, it's a forum about how to talk and seduce women, and if you haven't figured out yet, I write a lot of threads about the women I meet and talk to on this site, the way my game improving, and a lot on how I'm lost in life.

Second, my blogspot is not open to anyone! It is 3 times more posts than I do on this forum. I have no friends or groups, so without friends there's no link to find where this site is. I have no connection to anyone. My blogspot has personal notes to myself on how to improve my game and what I should do about myself. It's the stuff I DON'T EVEN TRUST TO PUT ON THIS SITE! Other than that, of course there's some rambling about being bored and philosophy on life, but still that's for myself.

Third, my myspace. You really wouldn't think this have any significance whatsoever. But I don't tell any of my targets or potential girlfriends about my myspace, why! If they know my myspace, they could meet my friends and that's just something I want to keep distant from stalkers and crazy people. Myspace also has details about me, I blog on this too, and just recently I wrote out my whole life, let me repeat WHOLE LIFE, between the day I was born and the day I left high school. Which is a long time! 1987-2005 to be exact.


So she read everything, every thread on this Attraction Forum, every blog on my Blogspot, and every post on my Myspace. Every single post she read word for word, letter for letter, and in about 2 to 3 hours she found out everything about me.

"English majors have no problem with reading that much stuff."


I told her the truth about everything. I told her how and why I got into this. I told her about her, and what she means to me. I told her about everything and everything that she wanted to know from me.

I'm not going to say exactly what we said in the morning, but I will say a few things.

She said that when she read all of this stuff, "It was like my worst nightmare!" That she finally gave someone a chance and he just so happens to be, well, THIS!

She wanted to give me a chance. She wanted to see that there was more to me than just a pick up artist. She wanted to believe that I wasn't just this guy who treats every girl like a statistical value.

She liked that there was more to me than that meets the eye, like my vulnerabilities. After reading about all of this stuff she found that I got character, really good character. Along with the constant yammering about girls and picking up, to did post a few things about how I view the world on this site, and the rest for that matter. We also talk about my view of ethics when it comes to picking up women.

She liked that I applied myself to a subject and that I wouldn't stop at anything to succeed at this subject of pick artistry.(Her words not mine) She kind of found a parallel between people who want to be runners and have a passion for running, and how I wanted to be a pick up artist and had a passion for learning this quality or ability.

She liked my writing. She thought I had way more passion when I wrote on these sites than I did in the book I am writing.

She thought I had this whole PUA thing down to a science and that I could probably pick up any woman.

She didn't like the idea that she would be competing with all these women theoretically. She believed that if I got to know her that my standards of her should be nothing more or less of "regular." Of course!

She wanted to know if I was addicted to this. Nope! I thought it more to be a subject to be learned and performed. Like chemistry is when you get lectured and have lab.

And a lot more stuff but I think I hit the primary parts.

We talked for about 3 hours in total. We talked about everything and I spilled the truth about everything from relationships to anything else.

In the end, she still wants to get to know me, and likes the person I am. I ended up serenading her with my guitar over the phone, which kind of creates a great visual of things.

So she still likes me or in her words, "she finds me intriguing."


- - - - - -


For those who were wondering about how she found this site. She googled my first and last name first, and pretty much just found cross country and track stats in highschool. Then she said she probably tried googling my email address.

I tried googling my email address for myself, and one of the links led to me saying in a thread that I made for this site, saying:

"Yah dude, I'm up in California if you wanna sarge or just talk about picking up girls. If you want, just hit me up on my email. My Email is -blah blah blah I'm stupid for putting my email right now blah blah-"

STOOOOOPID ME!

I understood how she found this website, by doing that but I'm not sure how she found my blogspot and myspace through that way; I'm still trying to find that out for myself.


So I just want to give everyone a heads up. I don't use my real first and last name for any website and I don't recommend anyone else do that either. However, do watch out where you decide to post your email.


- - - - - - -

Anyways I'll be honest, this worked out okay for me. However there's no telling who else must've stumbled over these websites and my posts and read all of the material.

-Take care guys,

Trig

Leo D
06-06-2009, 06:53 AM
Holy shit :eek:, I just googled my e-mail address... First 2 results, The Attraction Forums... Next one down, Plenty of Fish... And it goes on. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thanks for the heads up. I need to do some cleaning up on some sites.

sh4rkb1t3
06-06-2009, 06:55 AM
Interesting situation, but this is what I don't like the most:


She wanted to give me a chance.
You should have rejected this frame.

"Who the hell is this girl to be giving ME a chance? What makes HER so special to say that? She is PRIVILEGED to talk to me. If she doesn't like the fact that I'm a PUA, she can leave. That was really fucking weird for her to be stalking me like that, she should APOLOGIZE for it."

That is the frame that you should have.

Tell her tomorrow that she can take you or leave you, you're not going to change for her. Also tell her to apologize for being nosy and reading stuff that's not any of her business.

BUT, if she's in your social circle, that could be a problem. Now you have your whole reputation at stake. Try to drift away from her slowly, make her just forget about you. Don't invite her anywhere, just break her off from your social circle.

Nick_718
06-06-2009, 07:16 AM
idk thats kinda dumb pretty much writing a diary and your whole game plans etc. Wuts done is done tho she probly told people about it. You should just learn to not care anymore otherwise she ll have power over you (thats wut I think at least). And you right who is she to tell she wants to give you a chance fuck that shit. You really wanna be with a bitch who does shit like this? Say you let in her in your house so wut next she goes thru all your desk draweres etc? Who the hell is she to tell you wut to do?

idk how it would be possible to get all that info down at this point might as well leave it up there since you already been exposed. So if you a PUA (or aspiring to be one) wuts the big deal if people know about you? I mean you joined up in this mess to get rid of your insecurities and now you gonna let this get to you? You should go on your blog and write a message to her telling her to go kill herself and see wut happens.

Anyway Im suprised that she actually believed it. I told some friends of mine about all this stuff and they thought I was lying.

sunfire
06-06-2009, 07:28 AM
bahahah i googled all my emails and found nothing. but dude, if a girl googles ur name it means she really likes u. its half stalkish if u ask me. plus i acutally wouldnt care if a girl found this site, good for her.

DarthWayne
06-06-2009, 09:56 AM
pick up artist has a negative connotation among many people..most of whom are those who dont get laid much..and think of us as some evil people


oh btw...my hotmail also returned a 4 yr old post on some girl's hi5 wall..its an afc post though.....i wud rather be known as a player than an afc


and its not the worst nightmare....u know edison chen?...what happened to him was a nightmare

sdnightfly
06-06-2009, 10:27 AM
I still don't think this is the worst thing that could happen to a PUA. It's like finding a diary, and if you didn't write anything about her that would upset her or do anything to deceive her, she might just know a lot more about your history than you'd want her to. But I also think it's good insight into why you did get into the community, most of which is about improvement than notches.

mycer
06-06-2009, 10:38 AM
Interesting situation, but this is what I don't like the most:


You should have rejected this frame.

"Who the hell is this girl to be giving ME a chance? What makes HER so special to say that? She is PRIVILEGED to talk to me. If she doesn't like the fact that I'm a PUA, she can leave. That was really fucking weird for her to be stalking me like that, she should APOLOGIZE for it."

That is the frame that you should have.

Tell her tomorrow that she can take you or leave you, you're not going to change for her. Also tell her to apologize for being nosy and reading stuff that's not any of her business.

BUT, if she's in your social circle, that could be a problem. Now you have your whole reputation at stake. Try to drift away from her slowly, make her just forget about you. Don't invite her anywhere, just break her off from your social circle.

I disagree. She has read everything he's ever written on pickup, she's seen that side of him, and he needs to show her his true nature now, whatever that may be, if he really wants to try things out with this girl.

------------

The thing is that everyone has skeletons in their closets. Our own skeletons seem bad to us, but once you realize everyone has them, people can be pretty understanding. The fact that she took the time to read everything shows that she is actually interested. I havn't read your past posts (trigger) but you don't seem like a womanizer, and if you were it would have came out in one of your posts and she wouldn't want anything to do with you. Good luck with this girl.

Also it occurred to me that she is probably reading this thread. If you are, Ingrid (haha), I have one thing to tell you:

Most guys get into this not because they are womanizers, but because they are terribly frustrated at not being able to attract the women they like. It can build a lot of self confidence and become addictive like any other hobby or skill, because it is actually very fun. It's also a great feeling to help other frustrated guys build their confidence. There are a lot of genuinely good people in this community, and I'm sure a lot of womanizers too, but that's true for just about every community.

Future
06-06-2009, 10:38 AM
A very similar thing happened to me. Three times. The worst one was documented extensively on this forum but has been mercifully removed by the powers that be. (Moderators, if you could confirm this for me, I'd appreciate it.)

I've thought about it a lot because it was such a rabid source of hate and discontent in my relationship with my ex-girlfriend. The answer seems to be to have a strong frame for yourself. Notice I didn't say you need to "frame control" it. While that might be useful tactical advice in the moment (and it is, and it would work, etc.), I think this speaks of deeper issues and needs deeper resolution.

You have a problem with dating science. You're glad it's given you enhanced understanding and greater choice and a granted you a more exciting sex life, but somewhere inside you believe her when she voices her objections, i.e. you accept her frame. It sounds simple, but knowing where you really stand will add strength to all your interactions, not just your conversations with women.

For instance, imagine you are at a McDonalds. You see the gentleman behind the counter, his visor askew, a somewhat bovine look in his eyes, and you give him your order when it's your turn. If he asked you, "Why should I do that? Why would you assume I was going to take your order?" you would be surprised, but you wouldn't be stunned so badly you wouldn't recognize that a.) he was wearing a McD's uniform, b.) he is behind the counter at McD's, and c.) moments before you asked for your quarter pounder, he said, "Next guest." Your frame, in that moment, would be rock solid. Nothing in the world could convince you that you were somehow out of line asking for a burger from that gentleman, no matter what his response was. You have a large array of options available at that point, all of which stem from the basic assertion that he is a McDonald's worker, and therefore it is his dharma to get you your frigging food.

Now, imagine you meet him later that week, except now it's night time, and he has a gun pointed at your face, and he's asking-- demanding, really-- to have your wallet. Again, there is no doubt in your mind what is happening here, and unless you want this to be the climax of your personal movie, you are probably going to give him your wallet. Everybody understands the underlying emotional meaning of the interaction, and everybody buys into the vantage of the person with the strongest frame, in this example the guy with the gun, in the former, the McDonald's customer-- really McDonalds, I guess.

So we have the same people in different situations with different perspectives and different underlying beliefs about the conversation that is actually happening underneath the level of words.

This girl spooked you because you think what you're doing is creepy and manipulative. If you believe her, that is the first step to a very long, difficult road. My experience was so traumatic that I now blurt out my job even when it's not appropriate:

HER: "This is such good pizza! How did you find this place?"
ME: "Usually it's not this greasy, also I'm a dating coach."
HER: "You mean like Hitch?"
ME: "Exactly like Hitch. I cannot count the number of times I have been compared to Will Smith throughout my life."

I am fortunate in that I can compare myself to Hitch instead of Kevin James in this situation. If you don't want to lie to her (I vehemently recommend doing whatever you have to do with your life to avoid lying to girls), you either need to reconcile what you're doing with yourself, or you need to stop doing things that you think are manipulative and creepy. If you think you can only get women by lying and manipulating you first need to unfuck yourself, and you then need to admit you're wrong and hiding from your true best self. The reality is the meat of dating science is just about on the other side of the sun from manipulation; the weird parts are training wheels. You've enhanced your understanding and appreciation of yourself and a full half of the human species. You have learned what it means to be attractive and outlined a path to either get there or know how you got there. There is glory and beauty in this material, even when shady people doing shady things (cf. Future in the past, I admit) give it a bad name.

(This isn't a total backtrack on my "Do Not Talk About Fight Club" stance. I guess I feel like if you are HIDING Fight Club, that's a problem because you're living a lie. My point is that your involvement with the SUISC should be a non-issue for yourself, not a point of shame. As such, it could come up or not, but there's not much reason to talk about it UNLESS it's haunting your thoughts, in which case, cf. above w/r/t unfucking yourself.)

mycer
06-06-2009, 11:06 AM
A very similar thing happened to me. Three times. The worst one was documented extensively on this forum but has been mercifully removed by the powers that be. (Moderators, if you could confirm this for me, I'd appreciate it.)

I've thought about it a lot because it was such a rabid source of hate and discontent in my relationship with my ex-girlfriend. The answer seems to be to have a strong frame for yourself. Notice I didn't say you need to "frame control" it. While that might be useful tactical advice in the moment (and it is, and it would work, etc.), I think this speaks of deeper issues and needs deeper resolution.

You have a problem with dating science. You're glad it's given you enhanced understanding and greater choice and a granted you a more exciting sex life, but somewhere inside you believe her when she voices her objections, i.e. you accept her frame. It sounds simple, but knowing where you really stand will add strength to all your interactions, not just your conversations with women.

For instance, imagine you are at a McDonalds. You see the gentleman behind the counter, his visor askew, a somewhat bovine look in his eyes, and you give him your order when it's your turn. If he asked you, "Why should I do that? Why would you assume I was going to take your order?" you would be surprised, but you wouldn't be stunned so badly you wouldn't recognize that a.) he was wearing a McD's uniform, b.) he is behind the counter at McD's, and c.) moments before you asked for your quarter pounder, he said, "Next guest." Your frame, in that moment, would be rock solid. Nothing in the world could convince you that you were somehow out of line asking for a burger from that gentleman, no matter what his response was. You have a large array of options available at that point, all of which stem from the basic assertion that he is a McDonald's worker, and therefore it is his dharma to get you your frigging food.

Now, imagine you meet him later that week, except now it's night time, and he has a gun pointed at your face, and he's asking-- demanding, really-- to have your wallet. Again, there is no doubt in your mind what is happening here, and unless you want this to be the climax of your personal movie, you are probably going to give him your wallet. Everybody understands the underlying emotional meaning of the interaction, and everybody buys into the vantage of the person with the strongest frame, in this example the guy with the gun, in the former, the McDonald's customer-- really McDonalds, I guess.

So we have the same people in different situations with different perspectives and different underlying beliefs about the conversation that is actually happening underneath the level of words.

This girl spooked you because you think what you're doing is creepy and manipulative. If you believe her, that is the first step to a very long, difficult road. My experience was so traumatic that I now blurt out my job even when it's not appropriate:

HER: "This is such good pizza! How did you find this place?"
ME: "Usually it's not this greasy, also I'm a dating coach."
HER: "You mean like Hitch?"
ME: "Exactly like Hitch. I cannot count the number of times I have been compared to Will Smith throughout my life."

I am fortunate in that I can compare myself to Hitch instead of Kevin James in this situation. If you don't want to lie to her (I vehemently recommend doing whatever you have to do with your life to avoid lying to girls), you either need to reconcile what you're doing with yourself, or you need to stop doing things that you think are manipulative and creepy. If you think you can only get women by lying and manipulating you first need to unfuck yourself, and you then need to admit you're wrong and hiding from your true best self. The reality is the meat of dating science is just about on the other side of the sun from manipulation; the weird parts are training wheels. You've enhanced your understanding and appreciation of yourself and a full half of the human species. You have learned what it means to be attractive and outlined a path to either get there or know how you got there. There is glory and beauty in this material, even when shady people doing shady things (cf. Future in the past, I admit) give it a bad name.

(This isn't a total backtrack on my "Do Not Talk About Fight Club" stance. I guess I feel like if you are HIDING Fight Club, that's a problem because you're living a lie. My point is that your involvement with the SUISC should be a non-issue for yourself, not a point of shame. As such, it could come up or not, but there's not much reason to talk about it UNLESS it's haunting your thoughts, in which case, cf. above w/r/t unfucking yourself.)

Holy shit great post!

Seriously one of the best I've read on this forum. Everyone in the community should contemplate this.

Don gato
06-06-2009, 01:43 PM
A really good post, thanks to share it with us, i need to admit that i am still being a lil bit about "Do Not Talk About Fight Club"....at the end i think are issues that i haven't fixed, as if i was it embarrassed by doing what i do, i don't know.

Anyway.

cheers!

Young_chop
06-06-2009, 01:59 PM
Who cares dude.. you didnt have to tell her your life story like your guilty or something.. I would of turned it around with something like "you are totally in love with me"

metal1
06-06-2009, 02:04 PM
Man that's a rough situation, but aren't you a little worried about her reading this thread now if you do plan on continuing with her?

ASOPRANO
06-06-2009, 02:12 PM
Who cares dude.. you didnt have to tell her your life story like your guilty or something.. I would of turned it around with something like "you are totally in love with me"

Have you ever had a girl become extremely emotional with you? You can't drop one stupid line and expect them to drop their problem just like that, especially something like this.

innovate16
06-06-2009, 02:23 PM
My google result came straight up with this SITE!!! I am never giving my email out to HB'S lol

Pony Boy
06-06-2009, 02:46 PM
i give me email out allll the time to girls i meet. i have never given my email out on this site though. sheeesh use pm!

trigger, i guess this is kinda a learning experience. but i think its kinda dope how she thinks your writing about pickup is very intriguing. maybe you can take that and run with it??? maybe make a new blogspot for the public to read and see where it takes you? you gotta follow your passion man.

i keep a blog too, its unsearchable. i'd recommend everybody to keep one, not necessarily using your same PUA name/email/etc...but it helps mark your progress and look back at your mistakes. i'm glad i have one to see where i messed up with girls yeeeeeears before learning about this stuff.

Young_chop
06-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Have you ever had a girl become extremely emotional with you? You can't drop one stupid line and expect them to drop their problem just like that, especially something like this.
you make it seem like it's a big deal.

TheRogue
06-06-2009, 03:04 PM
Hehe, the same thing happened with me and my first ex. We broke up, but I was still in love with him, and we continued being friends. Through chance circumstances, followed by some Sherlock-Holmes-like googling, I too found his blog and many of his posts (including two about me ;) ). What followed was a period of rockiness...he was of course worried that I would tell our social circle all about it (I would not, and I don't think your girl would either...that's some deep information, and if a girl wants to know you that badly, she'll want to keep it to herself). In the meanwhile, I was trying to come to terms with losing my virginity to a PUA...

In the end, it turned out for the better. We became really good friends, and I'm probably the only girl who knows that side of him. If anything, that whole thing brought us closer together. Your girl is probably in shock and awe right now, but give it time and she'll come to terms with it. We might even get another female poster here on the forums :p

Cheers,

Rogue

Vapor
06-06-2009, 05:24 PM
I'd like to point out a difference between some scenarios in which instructors find themselves in and guys who are still in the relatively early stages of learning this skill.

Instructors, when they talk about this stuff, are telling a story of overcoming adversity and achieving social competence. "I sucked with social skills, I overcame that, and now I'm a dating coach and help other guys." And as long as they're upfront about it and avoid the sleaze factor it works out OK pretty often.

Students do not have that story. They have a different one. One that is not particularly attractive. "I had not-very-good social skills... and things haven't changed much yet." Do not talk about fight club is a pretty good rule of thumb.

If you were the type of guy who wouldn't want girls finding out you're in the community, there are some intelligent things you could do. You could use a community-only email address. You could create unique handles on forums that aren't tied to other online communities you're a part of or otherwise connected to your real life. You would limit your discussion of community topics to community boards.

You could do that, and you could stay pretty anonymous.

Or, you could post your personal email address on this forum and then start a blog detailing your learning process.

But if you did that, bemoaning something that "happened to you" when someone found out about it would be really silly. When you drive drunk without a seat belt and get in a car accident and end up paralyzed, the accident and injury is not something that "happened to you." You did some dumb shit which made easily foreseen consequences nearly inevitable.

Avoid doing dumb things and this won't happen.

HRHughes
06-06-2009, 10:11 PM
avoid doing dumb things and this won't happen.

+1

and if you do, the convo should end like...."hey thats awesome, i'll see ya later". Then you're off to find someone else, and not be a dumbass.

silverghost
06-07-2009, 05:08 AM
What Vapor said and as metal1 said... Ehm wont she read this post?

Fedor
06-07-2009, 03:43 PM
oh I get it, you made this thread so she will see it and forgives you, weak, plus your frame is lame, talk things straight up in her face, women do this kind of thing all the time when reading Cosmos "10 tips to make him fall in love with you", so nothing to be ashamed of.

And who the hell writes a diary on the internet and doesnt wants people to find a way to read it, wow are you 12 or something or new to the internets?

Trigger99
06-07-2009, 07:59 PM
If you decide that you want to post a reply for my thread, please read the thread before you do so.

Adain2
06-07-2009, 08:19 PM
Interesting situation, but this is what I don't like the most:


You should have rejected this frame.

"Who the hell is this girl to be giving ME a chance? What makes HER so special to say that? She is PRIVILEGED to talk to me. If she doesn't like the fact that I'm a PUA, she can leave. That was really fucking weird for her to be stalking me like that, she should APOLOGIZE for it."

That is the frame that you should have.



For the record, I completely disagree with him. Some frames are just kind of asshole. His would be one of them. Women are more vulnerable than men, they should be able to check you out and see if you are legit.

Basically Yes
06-08-2009, 09:51 AM
It's kind of funny when people talk about how "oh no, they found out I'm a pickup artist".

It reminds me of some fat kid in school who joins a karate class for a few months, then a chinese star falls out of his lunchbox, some girl looks at him and now he's worried that someone found out he's a ninja. He's not a ninja and if he really was a ninja nobody would ever find out and he sure as hell wouldn't blog about it on his myspace page. It's just more approval seeking and sort of shows that your mind isn't in the right place (It's different for people in the business like instructors, that's their job.).

I'm not trying to shoot you down or make you feel bad, I'm giving you an outside perspective on where you might be and where you might need to be mentally.

Starfox
06-08-2009, 06:23 PM
^^Still though, not posting you're email address on the site is good advice. I didn't think people would google someones email address, makes some sense to me now. But I wouldn't have expected it before.

Trigger99
06-08-2009, 07:12 PM
It's kind of funny when people talk about how "oh no, they found out I'm a pickup artist".

It reminds me of some fat kid in school who joins a karate class for a few months, then a chinese star falls out of his lunchbox, some girl looks at him and now he's worried that someone found out he's a ninja. He's not a ninja and if he really was a ninja nobody would ever find out and he sure as hell wouldn't blog about it on his myspace page. It's just more approval seeking and sort of shows that your mind isn't in the right place (It's different for people in the business like instructors, that's their job.).

I'm not trying to shoot you down or make you feel bad, I'm giving you an outside perspective on where you might be and where you might need to be mentally.

Okay in reply to Basically Yes,

I assume that any PUA who's talked to at least 10 girls between the ages of 15-45, within the last year or two, knows that at least 10 out of 10 of those girls talks or knows the whole story of Twilight. So I'm sure any PUA who's listening to a girl that's talking to them, knows pretty much the whole story behind Twilight by now. I know that I know it by now!

So we all know Edward's a vampire. Nobody at school knows that Edward's a vampire, except for Bella, who goes online and researches him. She pieces all the information together and decides to confront him and finds out he's really a vampire.

And Edward says, "Are you afraid."
And Bella says, "No."

The whole point is that everyone knows that the title of vampire is; bloodsucking creatures out to drink the blood of human beings.

Now think about the title of pick up artist, and what it means to normal civilians. What do you think everyone thinks pick up artists are out to get?

The notion of pick up artists to normal people is pretty much; male species that's out to take advantage of women sexually.

Remember in my original thread I said;


She said that when she read all of this stuff, "It was like my worst nightmare!"

Were not vampires in a literal sense, but we are monsters. This world that we live in, is filled with mice, and we're lions and tigers and wolves and big animals with sharp teeth and big paws with claws. We're unlike the normal socially weak substance that is out there. We're social predators who feed on our social prey. We are fighting a social war, of course no one likes the idea that we're the bigger species socially. That's what it looks like.


Bella fell in love with a "Vampire."
Ingrid (Target's false name) found a "Pick Up Artist," kind of intriguing.

And behind the blood sucking and the canned banter, some vampires and some pick up artists, are normal simple people, who's motives are just simply misunderstood.

Hence the title quoted from Twilight, "So then the lion fell in love with the lamb." The lamb is your ordinary lamb, and it doesn't fall in love with the lion, it's the other way around.


- - - - - - -

You really shouldn't dumb things down by using fat kids and ninjas. That's like saying tree and talking. Those two things have nothing to do with each other.

Vapor
06-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Trigger, the more you think in those terms, the weirder you will be to others and the more difficulties you will have with women.

Being a fun guy who dates a lot has nothing to do with vampires. Nothing. Seriously. There's no analogy.

Fedor
06-08-2009, 09:17 PM
Trigger, the more you think in those terms, the weirder you will be to others and the more difficulties you will have with women.

Being a fun guy who dates a lot has nothing to do with vampires. Nothing. Seriously. There's no analogy.

hahaha isn't he the same guy who made that Twilight thread overanalyzing it in terms of PU terms? someone's obsessed

miaddict
06-08-2009, 09:52 PM
What do you call someone who

-goes out only at night in clubs and bars?
-sometimes wear outlandish clothes?
-does not eat garlic(for fear of having bad breath)?
-can talk women into liking him?
-can put women under 'a trance-like' spell?
-tries to separate his target from her friends?
-takes women home to 'inseminate' something in them?
-makes women want more of his "blood engorged body part"?


Oh yeah, a vampire!

http://www.starblogs.net/archives/LestatandLouis.jpg

http://solitaryphoenix.com/QotDAkashaLestat.JPG

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ilovetowatch/images/pickup1.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2007/10/bram-stokers-dracula-monster-gallyer.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080303/favorite-immortals/spike-angel_l.jpg

bplturner
06-09-2009, 12:05 AM
I've told several women that I met online about: opening -> transitioning -> attraction -> qualification

You know the result? It fucking blows their mind. They're so intrigued. It's amazing.. really. I've yet to have a negative response. I just don't tell them the rest of the model ("Oh. There's more.. but I can't tell you that :) ) and I don't use the words "pickup artist". What's it matter anyway if you have a method? It's better than "hey gurl u sexy" online or "Hi! Want a drink?!" in real life.

silverghost
06-09-2009, 12:34 AM
hahaha isn't he the same guy who made that Twilight thread overanalyzing it in terms of PU terms? someone's obsessed

http://www.theattractionforums.com/off-topic/96852-lessons-twilight.html?highlight=twilight

No?

Basically Yes
06-09-2009, 07:12 AM
Is that Mystery?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2007/10/bram-stokers-dracula-monster-gallyer.jpg

NumbaOneDesi
06-09-2009, 07:06 PM
That girl sounds like a creep.

SharpSh00t3r
06-10-2009, 06:28 PM
i typed in my email address on google and nothing came up, I don't know what you guys are doing wrong

Emi
06-11-2009, 05:23 AM
Ah dont worry... Being picked up by a pick up artist is priviliage

Savoy
06-13-2009, 06:37 PM
Ah dont worry... Being picked up by a pick up artist is priviliage

Shrug. The woman who is now my girlfriend was being paid by a major U.S. newspaper to do an inside story on a date with creepy ol' me when we met. At the time she didn't think it was a privilege :) I thought I was having an off night. Turns out she was prepared to resist my every move (but eventually didn't).

It's all about how you deal with it.

Like anything with women - and I'm quoting my own Relationship Management DVDs (http://www.lovesystems.com/relationship-management) here - if you treat it like a big deal, it will be. If you don't, it might not be.

You can also spin it into a positive or attractive characteristic. Less with a girl you've been seeing for a while, more with a girl you just met (amping up her attraction, curiosity, excitement, and your pre-selection). I talk about that a bit here, and how I use a player identity sometimes to pick up women:

The Real Savoy: Direct Qualifying..which meanders into a field report (http://www.therealsavoy.com/2008/11/direct-qualifyingwhich-meanders-into.html)

But if this is a girl you like a lot, it sounds like things went OK, at least by how you've reported the results. There comes a point in every developing relationship where there's a talk that's a little longer, a little deeper, a little more honest, and a little more vulnerable than usual. If her finding this side of you was the catalyst for that, all well and good.

These days I tell girls right away, but back when I didn't always do that, an explanation along the lines of "I learned this so I could break the ice and get to know a great girl like you - I'm like the girl who was fat in high school and then went on a diet so she could date a great guy instead of dorks" often seemed to work. Obviously needs to be calibrated to the situation, etc.

Trigger99
06-15-2009, 02:09 AM
Well I didn't think my thread was going to bend into a means of vampires. All I was saying is that pick up artistry has nothing to do with fat kids who want to be ninjas(what basically yes said), and instead more like a girl falls in love with a guy who just so happens to be a vampire, which sounds a lot more congruent to girl falls in love with guy who just so happens to be a pick up artist. (Refer to most recent reply)

A lot of people are saying, it would be different if the pick up artist was an actual corporate instructor, and I think that's ridonkulous. It's obviously worse if your target found out you're a guy who's working on being a pick up artist or wants pick up artist qualities.

Remember, the definition of pick up artist to mainstream people = men who want to take advantage of women sexually. synonyms: player, casanova, vampire.

If some girl found out that the guy they like was some boy who had his heart set on taking advantage of women sexually(pick up artist title), then that's practically way worse than some guy who's job is teaching boys on how to become socially adequate.

So my vampire analogy has way more proof than fat ninja kids.

The only way a fat ninja kid would touch my original story, is if the fat kid was actually good at being ninja-esk. Which means, she has observed that he can successful accomplish ninja objectives, and that somehow that the next ninja objective had something to do with her.

Just like how guy picks up girl successfully and girl finds out that he's a pick up artists and knows he's good at it because she's observed it, and somehow can imagine a certain way he might end up treating her.

If you want to throw around analogies, you better analyze whatever you're building an analogy for, and figure out correlations and central premises that insightfully provide a means of deductive reasoning.


Fat kids can be ninjas. Same way fat kids can be pick up artists.

Nick_718
06-20-2009, 01:10 PM
this is the kind of crap that makes me mad. I mean wuts it to her wut you do with your life? I mean who is she? And lets say for a moment that being a PUA does mean a guy just wants all the sex possible wuts wrong with that? Why shouldnt someone want to have sex? It kinda reminds of how a girl can feel like a slut but I really dont know wut word to describe the equivalent feeling for a man.

Why should you feel bad/worried for wanting to improve your life by doing all this PUA stuff. Seriously I remember responding to this thread but I dont remember wut I said (cuz Im lazy to go look) but girls like this need to be shot in the face with a shotgun. Its cuz of crap like this that AFC's exist in the first place.

Trigger99
06-22-2009, 08:18 AM
this is the kind of crap that makes me mad. I mean wuts it to her wut you do with your life? I mean who is she? And lets say for a moment that being a PUA does mean a guy just wants all the sex possible wuts wrong with that? Why shouldnt someone want to have sex? It kinda reminds of how a girl can feel like a slut but I really dont know wut word to describe the equivalent feeling for a man.

Why should you feel bad/worried for wanting to improve your life by doing all this PUA stuff. Seriously I remember responding to this thread but I dont remember wut I said (cuz Im lazy to go look) but girls like this need to be shot in the face with a shotgun. Its cuz of crap like this that AFC's exist in the first place.


This is the kind of crap that makes "ME" mad!

Lazy people who don't check on their last post and have no idea what direction the thread is heading now.


but girls like this need to be shot in the face with a shotgun. Its cuz of crap like this that AFC's exist in the first place.

You shouldn't blame women for being women, that's AFC, and that tells people that you can't adapt.

Trigger99
06-24-2009, 04:22 PM
This is an update on one of my recent threads:

Every PUA's worse nightmare! (http://www.theattractionforums.com/discussion/97158-every-puas-worse-nightmare.html)

This isn't about unmasking yourself. This isn't about vampires and ninjas. This is a totally different subject, that sprouted from the same girl.

My birthday was June 20th. 3 days before that, Ingrid(target's false name) texted me:

"Please do not call me anymore. Thank you, (name)"

We had no disagreements, or anything that can be labeled arguable. She could've read something on the forum I posted, or maybe she could've found an actual boyfriend. "I DON'T KNOW what happened." She could've teleported somewhere for all I know.

All I could say is the past 5 or 6 conversations we had everything ran smoothly. She even bluntly said, "I would never stop talking to you without giving you a reason."

She also said, "I'm not going to stalk you on your forums."

She also said a lot of other things.

We were suppose to meet up on the morning of my birthday. So for about 3 days strait; after an unclear text, I called, and tried, but reached nothing.

She hasn't called me, gave me a reason, nothing.

I'm not trying to be all sappy about this, I'm just putting this up here, to be honest with the community, and to be honest with myself and move on.



Guy meets girl.

Guy talks to girl over phone.

Guy talks to girl some more.

Girl finds out you're a pick up artist.

Confronts you about it.

Ends up understanding you, and says she likes your character and that it's good to know there's more to you.

Call her later that week.

Call her again that week.

Call her again the next week.

Call her, set up plans that week.

Text message with no clarity, no answers, no reasons, and there you go.


. . . . story of my life.

It sucks. It's honest. I don't want waste people's time with a lesson to be learned or bullshit to look forward. I just want to tell everyone about how it ended up and how it went down. And there you go. Build your own opinions, build your own scenerios, and stories, and analytical prose. It doesn't matter to me. All that matters to me is moving on.

And I can't do that without being honest.

DeadEyeDick
06-24-2009, 04:58 PM
Trigger, in the future, just keep posting to this thread instead of creating another one.

Thanks.

sdnightfly
06-24-2009, 05:36 PM
I'm sure she's read the forum, and if so, she should post her side. I thought it was funny that she would just say to not call her anymore and have the last word, without giving a reason.

No one likes to be busted.

In this case, I'd close it out with a friendly email, reminding her that she was "going to tell you the reason why she'd stop. I learned a lesson from this, so unless you want to keep in touch, this'll be my last email. Sorry I embarrassed you, I still want you to take care and nothing but the best in your future, and hope you find someone better."

Keep in mind, she has told you to no longer contact her. The warning's been sent. After this, close the door. No more mention of her unless she decides to pop up in your life.

All those phone calls and texts you've been sending her, she's just going to use that against you. A friendly email where you're saying goodbye and no longer contact her is still taking a chance, but the ball's in her court whether she wants to keep in touch, and it would be up to you to track that if it's going to set you up for a restraining order.

If you have no problem with her having the last word, then make your peace with it.

silverghost
06-24-2009, 05:42 PM
Blah blah blah. Too much trouble over one girl that might even checked your credit score. Close this chapter and move on.

TheRogue
06-24-2009, 08:25 PM
My birthday was June 20th. 3 days before that, Ingrid(target's false name) texted me:

"Please do not call me anymore. Thank you, (name)"


Well that's a pussy bitch move if I ever saw one. The least she could do after stalking you out and ripping into your soul was to give you a reason for ending this. Delving into someone's private life like that comes with responsibility. I'm starting to side with the others who said this chick is just mental, cuz right now she looks like a bitchy, unstable drama queen to me. "Omg, you're a PUA, oh I feel so wronged, oh I can't talk to you anymore, oh let's make it all dramatic so I can have the last word, oh woe am I, he's a PUA, how dare he call me!!"

She clearly understood NOTHING about you, or else she'd at least have the respect to end it properly. Even if she couldn't handle it, say you can't handle it and move on. Some chicks just piss me the hell off. Three days before your birthday too. Yuck.

Look on the bright side though...you got rid of a seriously rotten apple. Now you can go find a girl who actually gets you.

Rogue

Basically Yes
06-24-2009, 10:35 PM
I like the honesty, it's real easy for people to post lies in here like "bro i just f-closed this girl in the back of my bmw".

Are you sure you didn't secretly want her to find out that you're into the "PUA" stuff? Like maybe you thought it would be a DHV if she thought you were living this super secret life as a womanizer etc?

BigBlack
06-24-2009, 11:26 PM
I'm sure some PUA out there is going to be a dumbass and say, "Well that's not the worse thing that could happen, I got this one girl pregnant just last week!"

Okay great for whoever you are, but just bare with me on this.

I work a nightshift so I usually sleep between 9 am to 5pm, somewhat regularly, and there's this girl that I like and have been talking to for about a month now. I'm really into her, her two passions are books and running. Her name will be Ingrid (it's not her name, it's just a name I like). Anyways Ingrid calls me around 4pm. And we get some small talk in,

Me: Hey what's up!

HB: Hey, what are you doing right now.

Me: I am currently almost naked in bed, how about you? (I sleep in my underwear)

Some small talk.

HB: Yah I just wanted to talk to you about your book!
(I'm writing a book if anyone remembers from my past threads, and I decided to shoot over some chapters to her.)

Me: Oh yah, how'd I do?

HB: Well I read the chapters you sent me but I was really more interested about your other writing.

Me: What other writing? What are you talking about?

HB: You know you're other writing.

Me: I don't know what your talking about?

HB: Your writing about how you're a pick up artist.

!!!!

She tells me that she just found every single piece of literature I wrote on being a pick up artist. EVVVERRRYTHING! She found this site! She found my blogspot that I don't share to anyone, and she found my myspace.

Well we all know what this site is to me and everyone else, it's a forum about how to talk and seduce women, and if you haven't figured out yet, I write a lot of threads about the women I meet and talk to on this site, the way my game improving, and a lot on how I'm lost in life.

Second, my blogspot is not open to anyone! It is 3 times more posts than I do on this forum. I have no friends or groups, so without friends there's no link to find where this site is. I have no connection to anyone. My blogspot has personal notes to myself on how to improve my game and what I should do about myself. It's the stuff I DON'T EVEN TRUST TO PUT ON THIS SITE! Other than that, of course there's some rambling about being bored and philosophy on life, but still that's for myself.

Third, my myspace. You really wouldn't think this have any significance whatsoever. But I don't tell any of my targets or potential girlfriends about my myspace, why! If they know my myspace, they could meet my friends and that's just something I want to keep distant from stalkers and crazy people. Myspace also has details about me, I blog on this too, and just recently I wrote out my whole life, let me repeat WHOLE LIFE, between the day I was born and the day I left high school. Which is a long time! 1987-2005 to be exact.


So she read everything, every thread on this Attraction Forum, every blog on my Blogspot, and every post on my Myspace. Every single post she read word for word, letter for letter, and in about 2 to 3 hours she found out everything about me.

"English majors have no problem with reading that much stuff."


I told her the truth about everything. I told her how and why I got into this. I told her about her, and what she means to me. I told her about everything and everything that she wanted to know from me.

I'm not going to say exactly what we said in the morning, but I will say a few things.

She said that when she read all of this stuff, "It was like my worst nightmare!" That she finally gave someone a chance and he just so happens to be, well, THIS!

She wanted to give me a chance. She wanted to see that there was more to me than just a pick up artist. She wanted to believe that I wasn't just this guy who treats every girl like a statistical value.

She liked that there was more to me than that meets the eye, like my vulnerabilities. After reading about all of this stuff she found that I got character, really good character. Along with the constant yammering about girls and picking up, to did post a few things about how I view the world on this site, and the rest for that matter. We also talk about my view of ethics when it comes to picking up women.

She liked that I applied myself to a subject and that I wouldn't stop at anything to succeed at this subject of pick artistry.(Her words not mine) She kind of found a parallel between people who want to be runners and have a passion for running, and how I wanted to be a pick up artist and had a passion for learning this quality or ability.

She liked my writing. She thought I had way more passion when I wrote on these sites than I did in the book I am writing.

She thought I had this whole PUA thing down to a science and that I could probably pick up any woman.

She didn't like the idea that she would be competing with all these women theoretically. She believed that if I got to know her that my standards of her should be nothing more or less of "regular." Of course!

She wanted to know if I was addicted to this. Nope! I thought it more to be a subject to be learned and performed. Like chemistry is when you get lectured and have lab.

And a lot more stuff but I think I hit the primary parts.

We talked for about 3 hours in total. We talked about everything and I spilled the truth about everything from relationships to anything else.

In the end, she still wants to get to know me, and likes the person I am. I ended up serenading her with my guitar over the phone, which kind of creates a great visual of things.

So she still likes me or in her words, "she finds me intriguing."


- - - - - -


For those who were wondering about how she found this site. She googled my first and last name first, and pretty much just found cross country and track stats in highschool. Then she said she probably tried googling my email address.

I tried googling my email address for myself, and one of the links led to me saying in a thread that I made for this site, saying:

"Yah dude, I'm up in California if you wanna sarge or just talk about picking up girls. If you want, just hit me up on my email. My Email is -blah blah blah I'm stupid for putting my email right now blah blah-"

STOOOOOPID ME!

I understood how she found this website, by doing that but I'm not sure how she found my blogspot and myspace through that way; I'm still trying to find that out for myself.


So I just want to give everyone a heads up. I don't use my real first and last name for any website and I don't recommend anyone else do that either. However, do watch out where you decide to post your email.


- - - - - - -

Anyways I'll be honest, this worked out okay for me. However there's no telling who else must've stumbled over these websites and my posts and read all of the material.

-Take care guys,

Trig

Consider this an IOI. I've had girls open my computer and find my half written posts on theattractionforums about them and other girls before. They get pissed but my frame is usually so strong that they just accept it as the way it is. I've never lost an HB because of pickup. I lose them because of other things LOL

Trigger99
06-25-2009, 01:00 PM
Consider this an IOI. I've had girls open my computer and find my half written posts on theattractionforums about them and other girls before. They get pissed but my frame is usually so strong that they just accept it as the way it is. I've never lost an HB because of pickup. I lose them because of other things LOL

This is why I considered making a new thread.

For future reference, please make an effort to realize where things are going on a thread.

Jester268
06-25-2009, 03:54 PM
I know the thread direction has changed, but anyone who is interested to see how much of their personal information is searchable through the internet should try running their information through pipl.com

user9384
06-25-2009, 05:39 PM
Uh yea I found out googling my handle turns up stuff, gotta have that changed lol. I'm just gonna go ahead and say I'm sorry she found out, but thanks x 1000000000

Adain2
06-25-2009, 05:43 PM
Well that's a pussy bitch move if I ever saw one. The least she could do after stalking you out and ripping into your soul was to give you a reason for ending this. Delving into someone's private life like that comes with responsibility. I'm starting to side with the others who said this chick is just mental, cuz right now she looks like a bitchy, unstable drama queen to me. "Omg, you're a PUA, oh I feel so wronged, oh I can't talk to you anymore, oh let's make it all dramatic so I can have the last word, oh woe am I, he's a PUA, how dare he call me!!"

She clearly understood NOTHING about you, or else she'd at least have the respect to end it properly. Even if she couldn't handle it, say you can't handle it and move on. Some chicks just piss me the hell off. Three days before your birthday too. Yuck.

Look on the bright side though...you got rid of a seriously rotten apple. Now you can go find a girl who actually gets you.

Rogue

Well, clearly she doesn't want what PUAs have to offer. I mean, what woman wouldn't want a guy who tricks her into thinking he will stick around (comfort) so he can have sex with her. Surprise surprise, they don't all want that. Who knew.

She doesn't piss me off. She seems pretty smart if you ask me. She knows what she wants and she's going for it. And it just isn't a PUA. Don't hold that against her.

I do agree though that delving into private life has responsibility; the responsibility to take what you know and do what seems best to you. And frankly... NOTHING online is really private. Good life lesson.

MrPrimo
06-25-2009, 06:07 PM
There is a dirty website called pipl.com ... Its a HAVEN for stalkers

Zak_Attack187
06-25-2009, 07:06 PM
I can't say I've ever had this happen to me. I read your original post a while back, and the update is interesting.

An PUAs job is to bring a women into his world, to incorporate his women into his lifestyle. The woman is attracted when she can see herself as part of your reality.

Lifestyle is fairly straight forward, but let's talk about reality for a second. Quantum physics is particularly interesting, as it's proved that reality is really relative to each individual. Our perceptions pickup on external stimuli and from that, all real possibilities, aka an Igan state. An Igan state is any potential outcome that could come from one probable cause. In theory, all Igan states have a probability of becoming reality, upon being collapsed when observed.

Let me explain it the way my Gr.12 physics teacher taught it to me.

Imagine in a room, there is a window, a sealed door, and a table in the middle with a box on it. Inside that box is a cat, and some poison rigged onto a time release system. In the room attached by the sealed door and window, is a scientist, who has to figure out if the cat is alive. He does not know what the poison is timed to. The box has holes for the cat to breathe, however the scientist can not interact with the box in any physical way, besides observing it. Until the scientist's hot secretary (Hey, this is a PUA community, why can't it be a hot secretary?) unlocks the door and opens the box for the scientist, all IGAN STATES are probable and therefore all exist at once. The key here is that the scientist is limited to one sense (vision) to observe for one stimuli, the cat. The cat could be alive, it could be dead, or it could be sick somewhere in between alive and dead. [Or the cat isn't there at all, wouldn't that be a mind fuck?]

Since, in our reality, until our senses interact with stimuli, all possible IGAN STATES are probable. How probably is what quantum physics is designed to calculate.

How does this apply to your situation? Well, to borrow from Tyler Durden (i think, I've read so much lately I can't remember who said what), our reality is pieces of our environment, and that's what we present to women. Sometimes PUAs have to manipulate and omit certain aspects of their reality, however now that she knows what you're reality is, and if you want to keep her, you have to pull her all the way into your reality. This could be as extreme as making her your wingwoman (and maybe FB), and actually teach her how to DHV for you and aspects of game.

This is your reality, and bringing her into it could be high risk, but it's high reward. That's an extreme though, but I hope it gives you some perspective.

**A lot of this knowledge is borrowed from different members of the community, but I've blended it with my perspective on Physics and Pick-up in relation to your reality. I don't claim to own this theory**

Trigger99
06-25-2009, 07:35 PM
I'm a poet. What we learn in poetry is to not get fancy crap in the way of what you're trying to express.


however now that she knows what you're reality is, and if you want to keep her, you have to pull her all the way into your reality.

If you want to express your opinion to my latest update which you said you read, you should probably read it.

Adain2
06-25-2009, 08:14 PM
Might I remind that she has requested he not call her anymore. It's over.

Trigger99
06-25-2009, 08:46 PM
Way to point out the obvious Adain.


I'm a poet. What we learn in poetry is to not get fancy crap in the way of what you're trying to express.

Quote:
however now that she knows what you're reality is, and if you want to keep her, you have to pull her all the way into your reality.

If you want to express your opinion to my latest update which you said you read, you should probably read it.

Again please read the updated thread before you decide on posting!

Zac Attack doesn't need two people telling him to do the exact same thing.

Adain2
06-25-2009, 09:00 PM
No problem Trigger.

Two same opinions can be helpful though.

Adain2
06-25-2009, 09:35 PM
hahahaha, this is funny!!!! sorry. but it really is, if you think about it. I recommend laughing at the situation, admitting that this time, she won "The Game" and outsmarted you and got away, and then take it and move on. Alls fair in love and war. Let's add sex, I guess. You can't say it wasn't fair for her to snoop and then do what she did. It's all fair in this realm, right?

miaddict
06-25-2009, 09:49 PM
There are people who believe that POOAHs are vampires or vice versa.

It's been described as the adult version of Twilight.

YouTube - A Taste of True Blood: Alan Ball Season 1 (HBO)
(Contains Tv show spoilers)

Trigger99
09-15-2009, 12:13 AM
So long time a go I wrote this thread:

Every worst PUA's nightmare (http://www.theattractionforums.com/discussion/97158-every-pick-up-artist-s-worse-nightmare-6.html)

And miaddict just kept coming up with more and more material to impose a tangent between PUA's and vampires. Anyways this was like 3 or 4 months ago.

So I'm working at the gym and I'm watching the history channel and they are seriously talking about vampires! Twilight got into the heads of history channel, what a rip! Anyways, here's the important part that I got:

Long long time ago in a place not so far away, vampire stories were used so that children (teenagers) would not go out late at night. But more importantly these stories would try to scare children out of meeting strangers and doing stuff with them. Folklore changed strangers into blood sucking creatures who would get you in horney submissive modes and take advantage.


I don't know if this is all some type of stuff that I missed in elementary school or was suppose to be one of those obvious stories that go around during halloween, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.

Whatever! It was worth posting.

Edit: Oops! Wasn't suppose to put this here, and I was really trying to start another thread. Again, oops!