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FusterCluck
04-2006-14, 10:12 AM
Alright guys, i was taking a shower today and thinking about sarging
and a new opener came to mind, and i wanted your thoughts on it before I used it.
"Do you think its possible for soap to become dirty?"
it might work, but now re-thinking it, this opener might not be so good, because it might only give back one word answers: yes, no...
of course you could have a good opportunity to neg the target based on their answer. but it would just depend on what they say.
what do you guys think?

Maverick
04-2006-14, 10:19 AM
Hmm, it's interesting. I'd say it would probably have about a 50% success rate. It's funny, thats for sure. Give it a whirl. The best way to find out what works for you and what doesn't is to field test it.
Ex. Orleans HATES my "How many 9's between 1 and 100" opener but I love it. It works well for me.

Dominance
04-2006-14, 10:35 AM
Ex. Orleans HATES my "How many 9's between 1 and 100" opener but I love it. It works well for me.How do you ground that opener? I'm assuming you don't just do it then go into another opener.

theory
04-2006-14, 10:39 AM
heres the deal with openers... its the truth i dont really give a shit if you believe me or not no sweat off my sack...i dont post that much because half of what people say are just madlibs of the VAH and not really field tested or work...
any fricken opener works as long as its congruent... you can go up and say hey whats the craziest thing you girls have lied about to a guy... or even hey guys theres this chick over there what line do you think she would fal for... i just made those up off the top of my head sitting here...
as long as you deliver it approprietly and it is congruent with you...
they all have something in common if you read between the lines youll see...
90% of what you say they arent listening too and they have all ready determined if your in or out before youve opend your fucken mouth...
Women read body language and this is what is crucial when delivery your opener... but in my mind your delivering a first impression more than anything...
I dont post alot becuase ive noticed most people here really dont have game they just type liek they do..
Here are things i have opened with :
you dress more like a amstel girl whats with the bud light...
hey guys whats the deal with those huge sunglasses chicks wear they remind of those real religous middle eastern chicks...
For reasons i wont share here the best advice i can give you is keep your opener short!!!!!!! (thats why i dont like many of the opinion openers... they take like 30-45 seconds just to say)... and to the point... remember you are interupting these girls time... so dont wast the opp.

Maverick
04-2006-14, 10:44 AM
Yup! You can pretty much say whatever you want as long as it's congruent. I"ve opened by flipping the bird, calling a girl a dork, asking what her favorite color was because i was bored and she looked like a "purple" girl. As long as it's different and you're smooth about it it will work.
btw - Thats the reason Orleans doesn't like the 1-100/9 opener. It's hard to transition from it. I normally just go into small talk. "So who are you?" Nah... i don't care that your name is Michelle. I mean who are you? Everybody has a trait that defines them. What is yours?" or something like that. Or even. "Hey, did you guys see the transvestite on the dance floor... she/he kept trying to grind my buddy."
- Mav

007pua
04-2006-14, 10:56 AM
Let's not clutter the forum with KJ theories that aren't FIELD TESTED. Thanks.
007

Cedar
04-2006-14, 11:01 AM
what do you guys think?
Have you mastered opening sets using stock material?

FusterCluck
04-2006-14, 11:11 AM
Have you mastered opening sets using stock material?
no, i havent "mastered" anything... but i think that the goal of even using the stock openers and routines are to create original openers and routines. so, im always thinking about what i think might work and so on.

Oneiricon
04-2006-14, 11:19 AM
Yes, that is the goal. After the newbie mission is done.
Until then, the canned shit is there to teach you delivery. Structure of the openers also comes into focus, which in turn allows you to construct your own.
Openers are also good material for parts of A2; you can throw openers into the middle of your routines: --> start the first routine, pause it, throw an opener, begin a second routine, pause it, finish the first routine, begin a third routine, pause that, return to the second routine, etc.
The idea is the whole "1 joke is funny; 10 jokes in a row --> he's funny"

Cedar
04-2006-14, 11:31 AM
...im always thinking about what i think might work and so on.
Stop thinking about it until after the n00b. You'll know what is and is not girl relevant by then. Stop trying to be creative and original with openers, btw. After six months of trying to do what you're doing, I'm back to stock openers. Don't mess with it if it ain't broken.

FusterCluck
04-2006-14, 11:34 AM
Yes, that is the goal. After the newbie mission is done.
Until then, the canned shit is there to teach you delivery. Structure of the openers also comes into focus, which in turn allows you to construct your own.
Openers are also good material for parts of A2; you can throw openers into the middle of your routines: --> start the first routine, pause it, throw an opener, begin a second routine, pause it, finish the first routine, begin a third routine, pause that, return to the second routine, etc.
The idea is the whole "1 joke is funny; 10 jokes in a row --> he's funny"
im in complete agreement, but mystery says that he uses about 70% stock material and 30% new material on every set that isnt a HB9-10. im in no way saying that this is even a good opener. i just wanted the opinions of some of the more experianced guys on this board to see if i was even going in the right direction before i used this opener. i probably wont open the set with this line... but it might be good to stack.

Cedar
04-2006-14, 11:57 AM
im in complete agreement, but mystery says that he uses about 70% stock material and 30% new material on every set that isnt a HB9-10. im in no way saying that this is even a good opener. i just wanted the opinions of some of the more experianced guys on this board to see if i was even going in the right direction before i used this opener. i probably wont open the set with this line... but it might be good to stack.
I'm only gonna say this once. Take off the I'm Cleve hat. Put on the Sarge-o-rama hat. You're worrying about something you don't need. Ever. And won't be ready to use in weeks or months. Refocus them priorities. Go sarge.
STOP THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE.
The number one thing I can tell you to make the learning process easier is DO NOT premetively try to resolve issues. Fuck up. Then ask questions. These 'what if' or 'what do you think' questions sound like a fantastic way for a newbie to learn this shit fast.
It's not. It RETARDS your in-field skill. Focus ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on sarging. And ZERO PERCENT on being clever, fixing shit you haven't come across and (most importantly) NEW MATERIAL.
Wanna know why you're obsessed with new material? You believe:
1. You're clever and you want to convey your personality with your choice of opener. Dude, chicks don't know what openers are. The opener doesn't exist to convey personality. So she doesn't know you're being original and she's not getting anything from you except a try hard vibe.
2. You're afraid the target might have heard the routine before or read the game. What do you care? You're not listening to her. You're running the script and PLOWING over her objections and/or responses. keep going. The more she objects the more she's being tooled into your subordinate. Your bitch. You win either way. Don't loose your cool, don't react.
Cut this shit out. Stock openers ain't broken. I'm back to stock openers after taking your slippery slope of clever openers. They work just dandy.

FusterCluck
04-2006-14, 12:47 PM
well cedar, i guess this is where our personalities differ... its just i've always prided myself on being a bit of an original guy. you may look down upon it and call it "clever" and "retarding my in field skill." but even if i use 100% stock openers it will not guarantee success all the time... i will admit that the stock openers are better than the one i posted in this thread. but does it really matter?
failure is the best teacher... and just so long as the "n00b" (which i am) keeps going out and talking to girls, and opening with anything. he is still learning what works and what doesnt with women. i have failed with my personal openers and routines more times than i can count... but i bet you've failed with the stock ones too, so have i. the point is that i've also succeeded with some of the original stuff as well. im not a PUA (yet), but i dont think it totally matters whether i use stock openers or original ones so long as i continue to go out and just talk to people... women, men, anybody.
maybe the process i've chosen will take longer than some people... it doesnt matter! what does matter though is that im still learning what works and what doesnt work. and i will continue learning what works and what doesnt forever. while your system works, so does mine to a point... my system is kind of a hybrid between yours and mine. and its my belief that everybody should implement original material into their routines. if they dont they are nothing but clones of mystery and other MPUA's. im trying to build my own identity, make myself a better person, improve upon my social skills, and hopefully lay a few girls in the process.
im still a very avid fan and supporter of mystery and the methods posted in this forum. i regularly use the material that i find in here, but i just have to do it my own way. the phrase "if its not broke, dont fix it" never really applied to me, ever since i was a kid i always took apart the phones and other electronics to find out what made them tick. im doing this the same way. using the stock openers are a great way to learn... but, they can only go so far. and then you have to take over and go from there.
:)
-FusterCluck

streako
04-2006-14, 02:30 PM
Heres one of my favourite openers at the moment and to many it may sound like AFC -"Hi, I havent seen you in here before".....
Now, I couldnt use it on just anyone because many girls would just tell me to F-off. The trick is to "read" who the receptive girls are by understanding their body language and looking for eye contact. As Theory says above.
The purpose of any opener is to engage the girl. You cant blow her socks off or make her fall in love with you with just one line, the idea is to get her talking so that you can demonstrate your worth, or DHV, as mm says.
The point is that a line about soap may get you talking or it may not, but if it does, it is just the beginning and the tough bit is yet to come.
(I'll rephrase that last bit- the FUN bit is yet to come)....

Dr. Zeus
04-2006-15, 06:23 AM
No matter how hard you try, you'll never concieve a better opener than the Who Lies/Cheats More opener. It's the greatest invention ever in male to female conversation.

Vincent Chase
04-2006-15, 11:37 PM
"Me and my friends cannot decide, we we're having a philosophical debate and we need closure. Out of the blue someone asks: 'can soap get dirty?'"
"Blah"
"Interesting, well, you see, the reason i'masking is because we all decided that, yes soap can get dirty, so we started wondering, 'how in the hell does the soap always get dirty?' ...How does it get dirty, do you think?"
"Blah?"
"Well regardless, here's the gold, we got so enthralled the debate and ultimately resolved all of our issues, BUT! And this is a big one, is it still safe/is it still good hygene to use the dirty soap?"
"Blah..."
"See, you guys have opinions, those guys can be clowns sometimes. I better be getting back to my friends, but tell me..."
I wouldn't use that, it's not congruent with my frame, but I feel that that is the best that opener is going to get. End of discussion.