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LesPupPup
01-18-2009, 05:12 PM
Thought I would post about my thoughts on winging.



(1) AGREED MINDEST
PURPOSE OF THE WING
A wing is a pawn in the know. Your job as a wing is to help not hinder. Period.

PURPOSE OF SARGING vs Winging
The purpose of sarging is to be social and out-going and meet new people for purposes of seduction. If you are not sarging = you are socializing. And your job is then to NOT engage in Beta behavior.

If you aren't sarging (opening sets) and you aren't winging (actively helping)... be cool and don't complain.



(2) RULES Please add your own and discuss
RULE #1
- HE WHO OPENS THE SET OWNS THE SET -
REASON WHY: The reason for this is to encourage guys to open sets and to eliminate confusion on who is the target.
TACTIC: Go into opposite directions and forward merge.
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: Opening and Controlling Issues / vague ways how to handle confusion
I think this has caused some problems for a lot of guys and their wings - I've noticed a few common problems 1) lot of guys do what I call a "touch and go" where they talk to a girl, eject come back or maybe go off and get a drink go to the bathroom whatever and re-open a set later - It can be considered "poor game" by some - They'll do it as a technique say hi to a girl, chat a bit and come back a little later - Obviously this can cause some problems of "ownership" to a set - Question - if you eject for whatever reason at what point do you lose control of a set? and 2) "Community Property" = Cases where the target lacks a clear connection to the sarge - As example acquaintances or friends via friends - I think anytime the targets could potentially act as a pivot you're in trouble... Let's make that a new rule... maybe...

RULE #2
- DETERMINE BEFOREHAND HOW TO PASS THE TORCH IF THINGS AREN'T GOING WELL -
- OR DECIDE LOVINGLY HOW AND WHEN TO LET YOUR WING CRASH AND BURN -
REASON WHY: Buying temperature confusion - Until your wing knows and is ready to move on, you risk escalating and then getting IOI's redirected to the wrong person. (ie She gets flattered you guys are hitting on her - your wing plateaus and stalls and she goes cold to him - if you come in now and pump her state you stand a good chance of getting IOIs but risk upsetness from your wing) - figure it out between you two
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: Buying temperature happens in reverse, too! We guys get our buying temperatures up and mistake it for an IOI on the girls part. I think this is an especially common problem when you are new. HERE IT IS IMHO As a new wing we get into a set with our buddy, vagueness happens on who owns the set, you start vibing in tandem with the chick - your buying temp gets upped because you think the chick is into you (interpreting IOIs maybe falsely maybe true) at some point one person escalates and it turns into an accidental alpha tactic.

The most common example I have seen: Your buddy does marginal with a girl not making any progress / ejects (temporarily?) or when there isn't any clear "ownership" or clear sarging intent on the PUAs / second steps in "steps up to the plate" , ups the buying temp starts or continues getting the girl into state and guy number one gets mad because he "should own the set" rule #1 - DISCUSSION POINT At what point do you determine where you are as a wing? How do we decide what a good razor is between getting involved and escalating on the target? Or if you should even be there?
SUPPORTING TACTIC: If things are working well give her a fantasy - come as a pair take her upsatairs and DP her. Get over it take her along and fuck her brains out together. Hey are we not the coolest guys in the world?

RULE #3
- JUST LISTEN AND PAY ATTENTION OR DON'T BE SEEN -
If another guy is talking to a girl just be quiet, take in the scene listen to his routine to take notes later so you can give feedback.
REASON WHY: Be smart and figure out where your wing is in set and whether or not you can help. If not bug out or don't interfere or...? Because it puts unnecessary social pressure on the target. Shut up - listen to your wings routine and critique later.
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: How do you balance out between, hanging out, helping, and causing unnecessary social pressure... ?
SUPPORTING TACTICS: Stand behind the target so she cannot see you, or if you come into set pay attention to subtle shifts in body language. You should be trying to build comfort with your wing.

RULE #4
- THERE IS NO PRACTICE WHEN WITH WING -
REASON WHY: This leads to sloppiness and mistakes.
I used to go out under the assumption I was just practicing and my friends would as well, this mindset slipped into laziness and mistakes would be made and intent would change if things went well. This leads to expectations being violated and bad wing behavior. "Just practice" fucks things up, you don't have to take it seriously, and shouldn't - But recognize if you are practicing and I am not we might have some problems. You have permission to practice if neither you nor your wing want the girl.
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: Sloppiness leads to missed and unforeseen opportunities.
SUPPORTING TACTICS: Always Alpha.

RULE #5
- RECOGNIZE VALUE - BROs BEFORE HOs -
REASON WHY: Chicks inherently recognize social value, friends first, and their rule is Chicks Before Dicks. Beta guys will give even the ugliest chick higher value over their friends. Instant deal breaker. The highest value is you and your friends then strangers.
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: Getting it to work in field. "Honor Among Thieves Principle" There is a problem here we need to recognize. Our intent and purpose here for 99.9% is to get laid not to be better men. Let's face it, your AFC friends are going to kidney punch/chump you out as soon as the buying temp gets serious... And if you are working with a stranger wing, you don't probably don't have enough value as a friend to earn and warrant it. This is why you here stories of PUAs cockblocking out in the field with wings the meet off lairs and forums like here. No professional courtesy, or is it a case of a lack of the agreed upon rules?
SUPPORTING TACTICS: ?

RULE #6
- PROMOTE YOUR BRO -
REASON WHY: Your wingman is the coolest, funniest, most interesting person around. He does not really tell bad jokes, he is never boring, and he is always the coolest guy around. (THE ONE)
SUPPORTING TACTICS: Hey this guy is one of the coolest guys I know in this entire town. Just making sure he is happy. Keep him entertained. I'll be back in a while, but when I get back, I want to see him smiling! (Credit:the one)
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: If he isn't you have a duty to be a lighthouse of mentoring. You should refine and pick and choose the guys as selectively as the women in your life.
If deep inside your head you do not believe this to be true because you believe your friends are uncool you need to re-evaluate your friends and your relationships with them and do some self introspection to make sure you are being your best self as well. LET ME REPEAT THAT Positive emotional energy, mature boundary function. First be the coolest mother fucker on the planet with patience and understanding and building friendships, recognize your faults, build your friends. Expect errors and problems.

RULE #7
- YOU'RE MONEY - STAY IN STATE -
Pay attention to each other's state.
REASON WHY: We affect each other that is the double edged sword of winging. When it works it works, when it doesn't it doesn't.
SUPPORTING TACTICS: You're Money, you're so money you don't even know how money you are... Now go sink your claws into that fuzzy bunny. (Vince Vaughn) -
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: ?

RULE #8
- NOT IN FIELD -
Don't correct in field. Or at least limit criticism.
REASON WHY: Makes your wing Beta - If you can't vibe and talk to your wing you can't vibe and talk to women. Tell him that, make that observation.
SUPPORTING TACTICS: ?
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: How do you guys overcome this?

RULE #9
- PAY ATTENTION TO GROUP DYNAMICS / FACILITATE SOCIALIZATION -
REASON WHY: This is Alpha behavior and brings or lowers value to your group.
BETA: Holding patterns... death row firing squad... stalking... are Beta behaviors - you beta yourself you beta the group you beta me and we all lose.
SUPPORTING TACTICS: Hey come over and meet my friends... simple : D
ALPHA: Laughing, high fives, dancing, singing, forward merges interacting around with others are Alpha group behavior. Here is something to think about.
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: When to break out of group mode and isolate targets... Getting grounded to an area "protect the table" mentality.

RULE #10
- INTERACTING, NOT ACTING -
Be interesting not pretend interesting.
REASON WHY: Uh, duh. Winging is like flying a twin engined plane. You get there twice as fast but the likelihood of something going wrong is double. Be genuine cool and people will genuinely flock to you and more doors open up. One man of value is rare, two is a stellar party waiting to happen.
SUPPORTING TACTICS:
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: Is this a good rule Off topic re winging? ? A given?


UNK RULE
- FRIEND PIVOTS OFF LIMITS -
Any member of the opposite sex introduced as a friend of a PUA should be considered off limits. "Golden Goose Principle"
REASON WHY: A pivot is worth more to you long term than short term.
DISCUSSION PROBLEM: True or false? I think it just causes bad blood, and jealousy down the road.


(3) PLEASE ADD TO THE LIST
EXAMPLES OF HELPING
Keeping the girl in set when she wants to leave.
Telling the Target about your Wing - facilitating the discussion...
Wing here has a great story about that... remember the time XYZ happened...
Accomplishment intro and prop in front of target
Facilitating kino
Kinoing with your wing (high fives)

EXAMPLES OF HINDERING
Asking the target questions while your wing is doing his routines.
Missing shit test or misinterpreting shit tests
Reacting to what the obstacles/target say in a different manner than you wing - Especially if negative or ineffective.

BEING BETA
This includes but is not limited to:
- supplicating, being needy, seeking approval, being un-calibrated, having hostile humor, having no sense of humor, putting to much value on any given interaction.
Betas inherently put more value on a chick usually ANY chick half a step above an UG over you. That's fucked up and it will bring you down in the field.


There you go, go have fun.
- Pup