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Guide
04-11-2006, 03:27 PM
I was wondering if anybody could help me with my problem here. Before I knew anything about this little society or the terms like PUA or AFC or whatever. I was just like every other AFC. I couldn't approach women, I couldn't strike up conversation and I couldn't get numbers. But I did have something going for me. See my personality naturally is that of a smart ass and I guess it somewhat helps that I can carry on a quasi-intelligent conversation. Now when I actually could stumble into a conversation with a girl and build some sort of rapport I wouldn't have any problems getting her to be attracted towards me (Seduction I was not so good at, in fact all of the hookups it was the girls that made the final move). I honestly felt that given a certain amount of time I could get any girl to be attracted to me. I was pretty confident that I had game--even though at the time I didn't really know what it meant. Everything was all fine until I actually started pursing "the game" and now I realized that all those hookups were not because I was so good looking or had charisma it was because of luck and my natural self defense mechanism of appearing uninterested and cocky to avoid rejection. Now after actually trying to be in the game what once used to come somewhat naturally I over analyze. I still can't approach women and now I can't even do what I used to do because I become too conscientious that I should be neggin her-or why isn't see responding, etc.
It was like taking 0 steps forward and then being kicked in the nuts and jetted 200 steps back.
Any thoughts?

Masters
04-11-2006, 03:38 PM
I was wondering if anybody could help me with my problem here. Before I knew anything about this little society or the terms like PUA or AFC or whatever. I was just like every other AFC. I couldn't approach women, I couldn't strike up conversation and I couldn't get numbers. But I did have something going for me. See my personality naturally is that of a smart ass and I guess it somewhat helps that I can carry on a quasi-intelligent conversation. Now when I actually could stumble into a conversation with a girl and build some sort of rapport I wouldn't have any problems getting her to be attracted towards me (Seduction I was not so good at, in fact all of the hookups it was the girls that made the final move). I honestly felt that given a certain amount of time I could get any girl to be attracted to me. I was pretty confident that I had game--even though at the time I didn't really know what it meant. Everything was all fine until I actually started pursing "the game" and now I realized that all those hookups were not because I was so good looking or had charisma it was because of luck and my natural self defense mechanism of appearing uninterested and cocky to avoid rejection. Now after actually trying to be in the game what once used to come somewhat naturally I over analyze. I still can't approach women and now I can't even do what I used to do because I become too conscientious that I should be neggin her-or why isn't see responding, etc.
It was like taking 0 steps forward and then being kicked in the nuts and jetted 200 steps back.
Any thoughts?
Yeah, find a general method that works for your personality and practice community material until you can create your own and then become congruent in it.
So, practice. Don't take things out of context and try and use them randomly in your game.

I can't even do what I used to do because I become too conscientious that I should be neggin her-or why isn't see responding, etc.
You're saying you don't understand when and how to use the material.. right?
So learn when and how to use it?
You had a bit of natural game before hand. You read community stuff and now you've taken the blue pill. Your game will get worse before it improves but when it improves you'll see exponentially positive results. This isn't easy. This is seriously extremely difficult and brings to light many personal sticking points you'll have to sort through. If you're a nerd.. its like when luke walked through that cave on empire strikes back (that's the right one I think..?).
If you want to get back to your natural game then stop reading community stuff and give it a year. If you want to improve then start doing some research and learn a method that works for you until you can develop your own.
-Masters

NegSmooth
04-11-2006, 03:45 PM
Guide
It would be of some help if you could describe precisely which methods you have focused on, and to what extent.
While I have no real advice to give at the moment, hopefully with some more background info on you people will be able to lend a hand:)

Rain
04-11-2006, 03:49 PM
I have a suggestion. Go away and never come back.
Your AFC habits are hard-wired into your brain. It will only take a short time away from the community for those habits to work their way back into your behavior.
I hate to use the military as an example, but here goes.
When a recruit first goes to boot camp, he is miserable. His life feels over and he goes to bed at night wishing he could escape it all. The drill sargeants and fellow recruits wear down his ego and his psyche until he is a pile of mush.
The recruit is at the bottom of his potential. He is in pain. He is in anguish. This is because the old him has died. The weaker version of himself is dead.
Once he has hit bottom, the system will rebuild him. He will become a newer, more capable version of himself. He retains the values of the old him, but has lost all the bad habits and self-depricating behavior. He is confident and competant.
The same can be said for a newbie to the game. As a newb, you will suffer the death of your AFC self. He will not go willingly, so you must kill him. This is a painful thing and not an easy undertaking. But on the other side is a man that can and will do the things that AFC never could. The new man, whether PUA or just recovered AFC will never fear women again.
The choice is yours. Stay the course, or move on. But the decision must be made. You can't linger in between any longer.

ShyGuy
04-11-2006, 03:53 PM
Yeah i just recently learned about this community and its tactic also, and so far ive read "the game" (in 2 days), relearned tarot reading(used to do it for fun), and bought 3 more books on related material. Whats happened with all this is that my fluid abilities in nervously talking to chicks i wanted before has become an analytical job of finding,waiting,responding,and asking myself what i did wrong according to my new set guidlines for PUG's courtesy of this site and the premise material. I jumped on board here for my "scaled 6 looks and shyness" but ive seriously lost my fluid skills and become more of a scientist of getting girls and have seen it work wonders for me but has given me an overanalyzing perspective and a fear that my material may have been used on "this girl" before, and most of all is the fear that she may connect my methods directly to this site. which is lame....so the answer to your question and my own? Fuck it man... just do what you do and remember that PUA methods arent math...you cant push a button to get the same reaction from every girl everytime. dont abandon what you had before---you are the core and "the game" is just your tool. Maybe what you lost is wit when ou started depending heavily on other material.

Iceman
04-11-2006, 05:22 PM
Game isn't working for you because you tried it without learning it.
PS: Rain...I love the way you start off with a seemingly harsh and unjustified insult/comment and then explain it.

Hypnovibe
04-11-2006, 05:25 PM
I was wondering if anybody could help me with my problem here. Before I knew anything about this little society or the terms like PUA or AFC or whatever. I was just like every other AFC. I couldn't approach women, I couldn't strike up conversation and I couldn't get numbers. But I did have something going for me. See my personality naturally is that of a smart ass and I guess it somewhat helps that I can carry on a quasi-intelligent conversation. Now when I actually could stumble into a conversation with a girl and build some sort of rapport I wouldn't have any problems getting her to be attracted towards me (Seduction I was not so good at, in fact all of the hookups it was the girls that made the final move). I honestly felt that given a certain amount of time I could get any girl to be attracted to me. I was pretty confident that I had game--even though at the time I didn't really know what it meant. Everything was all fine until I actually started pursing "the game" and now I realized that all those hookups were not because I was so good looking or had charisma it was because of luck and my natural self defense mechanism of appearing uninterested and cocky to avoid rejection. Now after actually trying to be in the game what once used to come somewhat naturally I over analyze. I still can't approach women and now I can't even do what I used to do because I become too conscientious that I should be neggin her-or why isn't see responding, etc.
It was like taking 0 steps forward and then being kicked in the nuts and jetted 200 steps back.
Any thoughts?
I have a harsh thought for you but its what you need to hear. Before you worry about negging and technique you need to work on yourself. The fact that you get on here and blame your problems on other people and on "the game" something you chose to learn yourself...shows that you are far from being the type of man that attracts a woman. Take it from a 27 year old guy. Your post wreaks of victum and weakness...any woman you manage to get will soon leave you or at the very least suck everything that you have and leave you a big pile of shit that she flushes down the toilet. Develope your inner game first my friend....the force is very weak I sense.

Machination
04-11-2006, 06:44 PM
I think you are making a mistake that a lot of first timers make. Your are either A) Gaming chicks that you know or B) carrying on the "A phase" too long or past a point where there isnt intrest. Negging, DHV, IOIs all that crap should take 20 minutes top. Its when you've got her hooked that you can start being yourself and showing that personality. You sound like you've got a great thing going on. You're not like a lot of guys on here that have never been with a woman and have no idea. If you like what you've been getting then keep it, its not for you. If you want more, read on.
Learning Pickup does not mean becoming a robot, it means becoming socially adroit enough that you can control and manipulate situations. You need to ask yourself if that is something you want. Its going to take all the magic of falling in love out of your life. Its going to make you think less of other people. It is going to make you lose respect for all of the women that you know. Still with me? Ok...
Stop thinking. Stop analysing yourself. You are going after a different type of women than you normally go for. You're upping your ante so that women who were once out of your leauge are now approachable. Of course its going to be harder, which of course means that you are going to fail more. Rain is right, make a new you. Once all of this becomes clear it you will be better for it.

Euphoria
04-11-2006, 07:28 PM
see this is why i love this forum and MM the are all so brutally honest with each other.
guide, how i see it is you have 2 options you can either:
1. stay here, learn MM and with TIME get results beyond belief or
2. go back to your natural personality and work with that...
sorry to sound like a dickhead, but that my friend is the truth :)

GameFace
04-11-2006, 07:34 PM
...socially adroit enough that you can control and manipulate situations.
"Adroit"... Nice word. And used properly in context. impressive! :p

Dr. Zeus
04-11-2006, 08:32 PM
I have a suggestion. Go away and never come back.
Your AFC habits are hard-wired into your brain. It will only take a short time away from the community for those habits to work their way back into your behavior.
I hate to use the military as an example, but here goes.
When a recruit first goes to boot camp, he is miserable. His life feels over and he goes to bed at night wishing he could escape it all. The drill sargeants and fellow recruits wear down his ego and his psyche until he is a pile of mush.
The recruit is at the bottom of his potential. He is in pain. He is in anguish. This is because the old him has died. The weaker version of himself is dead.
Once he has hit bottom, the system will rebuild him. He will become a newer, more capable version of himself. He retains the values of the old him, but has lost all the bad habits and self-depricating behavior. He is confident and competant.
The same can be said for a newbie to the game. As a newb, you will suffer the death of your AFC self. He will not go willingly, so you must kill him. This is a painful thing and not an easy undertaking. But on the other side is a man that can and will do the things that AFC never could. The new man, whether PUA or just recovered AFC will never fear women again.
The choice is yours. Stay the course, or move on. But the decision must be made. You can't linger in between any longer.
I wish the rep system was still active.

Katil
04-11-2006, 10:02 PM
I was wondering if anybody could help me with my problem here. Before I knew anything about this little society or the terms like PUA or AFC or whatever. I was just like every other AFC. I couldn't approach women, I couldn't strike up conversation and I couldn't get numbers. But I did have something going for me. See my personality naturally is that of a smart ass and I guess it somewhat helps that I can carry on a quasi-intelligent conversation. Now when I actually could stumble into a conversation with a girl and build some sort of rapport I wouldn't have any problems getting her to be attracted towards me (Seduction I was not so good at, in fact all of the hookups it was the girls that made the final move). I honestly felt that given a certain amount of time I could get any girl to be attracted to me. I was pretty confident that I had game--even though at the time I didn't really know what it meant. Everything was all fine until I actually started pursing "the game" and now I realized that all those hookups were not because I was so good looking or had charisma it was because of luck and my natural self defense mechanism of appearing uninterested and cocky to avoid rejection. Now after actually trying to be in the game what once used to come somewhat naturally I over analyze. I still can't approach women and now I can't even do what I used to do because I become too conscientious that I should be neggin her-or why isn't see responding, etc.
It was like taking 0 steps forward and then being kicked in the nuts and jetted 200 steps back.
Any thoughts?
Why is everyone so interested in instant gratification?
Doesnt anyone enjoy the experience of learning anymore?
This is like you just took a home depot class on installing a ceiling fan and now you are an electrician....It doesnt work that way AT ALL. All of this is so overwhelming sometimes and the absolute BEST thing you can do is to take a step back, learn one thing, and go out and practice. Give yourself TIME to learn, set goals and achieve them.
Cheers,
Katil

chilli
04-12-2006, 02:26 AM
Its been said a number of times in this thread and throughout the forum but the basic truth seems to be when you start out your game really suffers, this shit fucks you up big style until you practice it, practice it a bit more and for good measure PRACTICE IT.
You can do what rain suggests and give up on the pua scene and your old self will resurface and you could muddle on quite happily or you can actually start from 0 as a rAFC and move on to being a PUA as you put the time and effort in.
If you find yourself feeling lost then you need to take a few steps back, jump in the shower, put some nice clothes on and spend a day smiling and saying hi to anyone and everyone that you meet that day, try to get a few basic conversations going but by the end of the day you shouldn't have any major problems with approaching strangers, if you do try it again.
Id also recommend the e book, the DVD series, reading the posts on the forum and check out Bristollair. The knowledge you seek is there and when you've sorted your inner game out you will be able to apply all the outer game knowledge to your in field work.
When you go out have a canned opener or 3 ready and don't go out to get laid, go out and get people to talk to you, show interest in you and as you get used to the feeling you can move from there to time bridging, day 2s and finally full Monty.
I tried to run when i should have walked, had it pointed out to me and corrected it and now things run much better.
You have got to become a PUA, its not a case of reading something then instantly becoming the best.
Don't blame the system, the system WORKS!! look at yourself and adapt, change and become what you can become or call us all a bunch of shits, don't log onto the forum and go back to being what you were previously.
Chilli

ymox
04-12-2006, 02:48 AM
Thank you for ruining my life...
so funny, the ultimate in beta or wait maybe gamma behaviour/attitude.
only you can ruin your own life, WTF did I (we) do.
Take ownership & cotrol of it (ur life), stop being a wuss.

Guide
04-12-2006, 03:03 AM
Obviously some people here seem to have a problem with sarcasm but no sweat. Thanks for everybody for being honest and actually putting forth the truth not what only sounds good and hold no actual value. I was probably not specific enough and didn't provide background info for you guys to give me specific advice.
The reason I started researching "the game" is not necessarily to become the proverbial "ladies man" but because I noticed on my own patterns in people behaviors that I didn't really know how to understand. I also have a degree in marketing and work in sales management so I am naturally drawn to explore what makes people tick.
I spend hours and hours training potential sales people how to approach complete strangers and take their money. I tell them how to separate the job from who they are and not get affected by rejection.
My problem is that while I know all this and at work I have absolutely no problem approaching, developing and closing. In my personal life I suck so terribly at it. I cannot seem to separate myself enough from what I do in my personal life not to get affected by rejection. I am so petrified by failure and so good at convincing other people and worst of all myself that its not worth to even try. This is where my problem is. This is what I need help with.
And so it begins...

Beowulf
04-12-2006, 06:27 AM
Obviously some people here seem to have a problem with sarcasm but no sweat. Thanks for everybody for being honest and actually putting forth the truth not what only sounds good and hold no actual value. I was probably not specific enough and didn't provide background info for you guys to give me specific advice.
The reason I started researching "the game" is not necessarily to become the proverbial "ladies man" but because I noticed on my own patterns in people behaviors that I didn't really know how to understand. I also have a degree in marketing and work in sales management so I am naturally drawn to explore what makes people tick.
I spend hours and hours training potential sales people how to approach complete strangers and take their money. I tell them how to separate the job from who they are and not get affected by rejection.
My problem is that while I know all this and at work I have absolutely no problem approaching, developing and closing. In my personal life I suck so terribly at it. I cannot seem to separate myself enough from what I do in my personal life not to get affected by rejection. I am so petrified by failure and so good at convincing other people and worst of all myself that its not worth to even try. This is where my problem is. This is what I need help with.
And so it begins...
No such thing as failure... only unrealized results... what's the book called... "The Game" look at this as such... a game, the oldest game in the history of the world... once you view it like that, who cares. You work in sales management? Then you are more than aware of the saying, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." How do you get your sales team pumped?