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TrueStory
10-2008-28, 05:22 PM
So I stumbled on very inquisitive post by Effortless Sheek.

http://www.theattractionforums.com/forum/discussion/81171-hot-girls-reality-do-they-have-easy-forever.html

Do girls really have it easy? I always thought they do, especially the hot ones, but then I learned otherwise. Let’s begin.

If I can have it, I don’t want it…

First, we don’t really treasure what we get with ease. That’s pretty much typical trending in any society. [HEALTHY] Rich people don’t care much for more money, beautiful people are sick of compliments; geniuses often neglect or downplay their talents/achievements; and so on. This typically leads to a lesser desire to obtain more of what they already have.

For example:
I LOVE chicken Caesar salad. But, If I can have a FREE Chicken Caesar salad for lunch every day, probably within a week, I would ‘tolerate it’ and in month or so, you would see me buying a cheeseburger at McDonalds, instead. Why would I go spending money if I can get a FREE salad? Because, I am fed up with it!!! That’s why.

So when a hot girl gets whatever she wants, EVERYDAY, ALL THE TIME, EVERY MINUTE, guess what happens? She becomes fed up with it.

Have you ever talked to Rockstars that get laid and have groupies following them during their tours? Do you really think they CARE THAT MUCH about sex? Not at all. So do you really think those girls care that much for these guys following them like puppy dogs?

What’s the challenge?

She can have most of these supplicating chodes if she wants; but what’s the challenge? Women are animals of challenge and adventure, emotional high, chasing the wild alpha male, not settling in stagnant relationship with a supplicating dork.

Likewise,
You and I can go out to places like CollarMe.com or PlentyOfFish.com and find ourselves a toothless fatty in her 40s and have sex with her literally without any effort. Try it. Email a fat unattractive lady and ask her what she likes to do for fun. Then ask her what the most sexual thing she has done is? Then tell her you are interested in meeting up with her. See how readily she’ll respond.

So these geeky dorky guys to those hot women are equivalent of toothless fatties from Plenty of Fish to players like us. None the less,

Tick-Tock, Tick-Tock…

You hear that? I do. It’s a short-lived span of their youthful beauty and childbearing. As we, guys, grow older, our value only increase, while women’s value? Yup! Down the drain:
Compare:
Boob job? $4,000
Dating Bootcamp with Fader? $2,000
Picking up girls in their 20s while you’re 30+? Priceless.

Woman has VERY short lived cycle. We have Viagra, they don’t. I can still fuck at age of 80, her having children past age of 50? VERY UNLIKELY! The pressure is on her, and it’s growing fast. While my value is going up, her value is going down. The double edge sword: with my higher value in my 30s I can easily swoop girls in their 20s, 30s, and even 40s. The other side of the coin? Younger guys get to fuck the towel while I fuck their one-itisis. Lol So if you’re 18…you’re just starting; by the age of 24-25 you’ll reach your masculinity level and you’ll understand what I am talking about.

Natural Boys and Hot Girls

Not every girl is hot. Actually, according to Bell Curve (natural distribution): you will have 10-20% of Ugly fat nasty vomit inducing women, then you have 60-80% of AVERAGE looking girls ranging form Mopeds (fun to ride until your friends see you on them) to NOT-embarrassing to-be-seen-with girls. And finally you have top 10-20% of exclusively attractive women.

The bottom lowest will fuck just about anything, the middle ones are fair game, and top-10% will only fuck VERY high value guys. C'est la vie! Get over it.

So for rest of the girls out there, it’s cut-throat competition. They struggle to find a boyfriend, they can’t keep a man for the life of god, and god forbid, a much prettier girl (form higher ranks) steals her MAN. So many things to worry about:
- Do I look fat?
- Is she skinnier than me?
- Am I sexy?
- Are my boobs big enough?
- Will my friends call me a slut if I sleep wit him?
- That dumb bitch, stole my boyfriend!
- I can’t orgasm!
- I can’t give head!
- Is he satisfied with me in bed?
- What’s wrong with me? Why can’t I get a normal guy?
- What do I really want from a man?
- OH GOD all these emotions I am so confused!!!

So what’s the guy’s side? Not every guy is born natural. About the same distribution pattern: 10 - 20% of dudes will never get laid more than by 1 or 2 girls. Sorry boys. Such is life. 60-80% will get laid, ranging from getting lucky to getting her drunk, and top 10-20% of man will sleep with one woman after another. (those ranks, just like in women’s distribution do overlap)

So just like women, who can lose weight, get plastic surgery, boob job, etc, guys can to, learn how to be desirable man, and move from average part to top 10% category. It’s all possible.

The daily struggle of average woman is a lot more complicated than the daily struggle of average man or maybe the same?:
- Am I good looking?
- Am I a skilled lover?
- Does this guy look bigger than me?
- Is my dick big enough?
- Will my friends cockblock me or will I get laid tonight?
- Stupid fucking AMOGs, took my set again!
- I can’t make woman orgasm.
- I am horrible at eating pussy.
- What am I doing in bed?
- What’s wrong with me, why no girl likes me?
- What kind of woman do I want?
- Do I want marriage, girlfriend, or just play the field?

As you can tell, a lot of men’s problems are much easily solved than ones women have.

Average Girl for Average Guy

Without putting any effort into becoming top 10% you are going to be stuck with average results. You will date HB6s and HB7s and sometimes get lucky with HB8. If you’re bottom 10% (WBAFC, virgins, seriously emotionally troubled men, etc)

For girl,

Without putting any effort into becoming top 10% they will be stuck dating average man with average skills and average survival and replication value. NOT ALPHA MALES.

So BETA man for BETA woman.

So in order to get into top percentage of exceptionally attractive people:

What can guy do? (if a girl could have ANY man she wants, she would want man with these skills as a minimum, and I am actually ball-parking this, and probably missing many)
Get in healthy shape, become interesting, travel and learn, get a decent job, learn how to dress, learn how to flirt, handle insecurities, learn how to be skillful lover, etc.

What can girl do? (if a man could have ANY woman, he would want those as a minimum, again, different man want different things)
Get in healthy shape and stay in healthy shape (i.e. NOT FAT). Get a plastic surgery (alpha man don’t settle for average girl next door). Get boobs. Lift, remove, and misplace excess skin. Go tanning. Constantly look significantly better than 90% of girls out there. Learn how to flirt, handle insecurities (much bigger list than guys’), learn how to be good in bed, learn how to cook and take care of a man. Be smart and have ability to carry a conversation. Attempt not come off as a slut, but not lose a man due to sexual disinterest (remember, he can go pick someone else to fuck). Tolerate his behavior.

Men Have More Control

You can approach 20 girls a night; you can approach 50 girls a night. Each approach your options are growing. It’s in your control.

She might be approached by 1 guy; she might be approached by 5 guys. She doesn’t really have any choice of guys that approach her. All she can do is make herself presentable, sexy, and out compete other women in the room.

Oh and while doing that, she cannot look slutty. Not a bid. It’s essentially like having garage sale. You ‘market’ your product, hoping that you’ll have customers. Then customers come over, offer you price and you decide whether you want to sell for that price. Customer always have a choice to go to another garage sale, find a cheaper price, get better value for the same money, or not spend money all together and spend it somewhere else. Business has competition, customer has choices. Woman is business, man is customer. Not all customers can afford high priced items (i.e. Ferrari, a big house, private Island, or Yacht)

John wants sex Jane wants marriage

Guys like sex. Social conditioning convinced us it’s bad and we all should be looking for “the one”. Bullshit. When it really comes down to, the reason guy stay with their girlfriends because they are too afraid they will never find something better or something AT ALL.

You can give me this bullshit that “oh well I really love her” and you may love her, but if you weren’t getting sex, you can tolerate this for a year, maybe two years, but eventually your biological drive will kick in and you toss that frigid bitch to the curb.

While we have high tolerance for not ‘getting any’ woman have much lower tolerance for loneliness. If a dude goes sex-free for couple months to a year, he hit a dry spell; if a woman goes boyfriend free for more than two month, there is something wrong with her. (or so she thinks).

We’re less miserable not having sex, while women can be nearly suicidal because of not having boyfriend.

When men say, well, I really want a girlfriend to, they really want someone to deposit their semen into, but covering that shit up with “girlfriend” crap.

So guys that get girls easily don’t have that problem. “Girlfriend? What girlfriend? Oh fuck that girl, I am seeing Nicole now and Ashley. They are bi-sexual strippers. Yeah bro!”

Ironically, those guys are the ones that women want. (See first clause, If I can have it I don’t want it).

So in order for woman to keep this kind of guy, she has to come off as better than EVERY SINGLE girl that comes his way. Imagine that!? While there are plenty of good looking women born everyday (rhetorically speaking) there is always shortage of good quality of man. And while man’s perception of attractive woman is relative to him, woman’s perception of alpha man is universal. James Dean is universally desired guy, while Angelina Jolie will not be for long. I know more guys who don’t want to fuck Paris Hilton (pure looks based) than girls who don’t want to fuck Brad Pitt.

Unlike guys, women tend to be more loyal to one mate (biological reasons), so if you are dating an HB10 and you’re high value guy, there aren’t many guys that can steal her away from you. Yeah, she might go sleep around a little, once or twice, but in the end she will be yours. You don’t have a lot of competition to worry about, if she’s REALLY into you. Her emotional attachment and involvement in relationship is sacred to her.

Biologically women are designed to protect the family. If you ever wonder why so many husbands cheat on their wives but wives stay with them? This is why! Imagine how difficult it must be for a woman to accept that she’s NOT the only one? But if she abandons the man, she will feel vulnerable, weak, unprotected (biological reason), and financially instable (logical reason).

Back to topic. What is harder?

a) For a man to get laid by an attractive female or,
b) For a woman keep an alpha male all to her self?

What do you think?



Men and women value different things when it comes to sex. Man pride themselves in scoring with a hottie, that’s why it seems so difficult for us to do…. While,

Woman on other hand pride themselves in scoring a good husband. A woman is highly regarded if she can keep a man loyal to her.

This is why we call easy girls “Sluts” and married man “Pussy whipped”.
Both have negative connotation.

Fucking a prostitute is not really as fun as fucking a girl you had to “court” to get in bed with.
Dating a dorky wimpy ass-kissing suck-up is nearly not as fun and exciting, as finally capturing the heart of elusive free spirited man.



Real Survival and Replication

It’s hard wired in woman’s head that men is absolute necessity for survival.
It is hardwired in our head that women are absolutely necessary for procreation.

At the end, we are VERY selective with who we protect and they are VERY selective with who they procreate with.

Do you want to date an ugly toothless fat bitch? I don’t.
No, and she doesn’t want to date wimpy pussy-whipped desperate excuse for a man.


But ..but ..but …but … I cant even get a date?!?!?

You are on this forum. You are seeking advice. Congratulation you’re bottom 10-20% of man!

Yep. The reality sinks in. You’re here because you’re either AVERAGE GUY or bottom percentile of men.

I don’t see naturals here, well, they don’t care. Why should they be here?! They already know how to get with girls; the ones that don’t are here. You need to get to above average and then you can see the game for it really is: a true liberation.


A day in life….

So let’s turn the tables: A day in life of lesser attractive girl:

\you’re girl:
You’re 5’4’’, you’re 190lbs,
You wear John’y Deer tee-shirt and Walmart jeans. You have no clue how to wear lipsticks and your mom never taught you how to put make up on. You kissed a guy at a party, while both were hammered about 5 years ago on your 14th birthday, when you were 60 pounds lighter. You can’t seem to figure out why boys don’t like you. You’re angry that all boys always go for your pretty friend Britney. You have yellow teeth and your chest size is B cup.

So you show up in the bar…and there are lots of cute guys. Damn! Maybe, maybe, maybe, today you can meet someone special; maybe you two will even umm start dating!! YAY! That would be so great!

You linger around the bar, and you notice some cute boys standing by pool tables. You navigate your fat ass over and ghostly walk nearby. Hmm, nobody is noticing you …. You strut your stuff and apply some lipstick… you also suck your stomach in; again nobody notices.

You head towards the bathroom and “accidentally” brush your small chest against a cute boy on the way. …nope. Nothing.
In the bathroom you pee, and listen to two girls talking about their boyfriends. “fucking sluts” you think to yourself, and head towards the mirror. You re-apply your cheap makeup and ponder at your reflection. Then you say “FUCKIT! I’ll just get drunk with my girlfriends. Girls just wanna have fun!”

You head back to your group, only to find two of your cuter friends, Nicole and Ashley, are being engaged by two marine dudes. You budge your way in “Hi, I am Ingrid!” …. They look over you and call over their drunken buddy Billy. “hey Billy, meet Ingrid, I think she likes you dude!” ..you quickly size up Billy: Billy is overweight, smells like booze and sweat. He’s dorky looking with messed up hair and bad breath. So while Billy is buying you drink after drink and you stare at hot marines from the corner of your eye, and a sad, sad salty tear runs down your check.

You look how easily boys flirt with your girl friends. You secretly envy them and think to yourself “guys have it soo much easier!”

……………….meanwhile:

You’re a guy (aspiring pua):
You’re 5’11’’, you are proud of your beer drinking abilities, and your little gut-keg speaks for itself
Your greasy t-shirt and nasty jeans covered in last night’s beer
You don’t know how to talk to ‘ladies’ but you’ve been reading some PUA stuff over at TAF. You think you got some sweet ass routines up your sleeves. So you are meeting up with some of your buddies at the local bar. You haven’t had sex in past 2 years and today might be your lucky day. You listen to some David DeAngelo on your way to the bar and practice your cocky and funny comebacks.

You notice a 3 set across the bar, and you check yourself to make sure you remember your openers, routines and DHV stories. Having your buddies taunting you to approach, you get enough courage and head over there; First set of the night starts something like “Hey guys, can I get a female opinion…” they don’t even let you finish, they cut you off and tell you they have boyfriends. You shake it off and immediately open a 2- set next to you. Unfortunately, AMOG boyfriend comes over and blows you out of the set. Fucking damnit!

You head to the bathroom walking near a three set of HB10s and throw them your signature neg “you girls are not that cute anyways”.
In the bathroom you stand in line for 10 minutes, hearing guys talk about fucking this broad and giving that slut up the ass. You chime in with “yeah bro…fuck those hoes man, girls here are skanks!”
While pissing you sneak peak at other man’s junk, wondering if he’s bigger than you. “He must be bigger than me if he’s fucking all these hot bitches!” Well he’s not, but you look in the mirror. You put your ‘alpha’ face on, pick your nose for two minutes, then blurb to yourself “Fuckit, I am just going to have a night with my boys. Fuck bitches, fuck them. There are no good targets here anyways”

You come out of the bathroom to find your buddies engaged in a three set. Except two of your natural buddies are talking to two hottest girls, and the one left is kinda ugly. “Hey Billy….. “ you hear your buddies yell your name.

….you look over a 3 set of HB10, by the bathroom, and while noticing random guys buying them drinks you say “Damn girls have it soo much easier than guys!”


.I am going to let you think about that.



So who really have it easier?

Average girls going for high caliber guys get blown out just as easily as average guys get blown out by hot girls.

Don’t be average. Isn’t it what Mystery was preaching from very beginning, before even “The Game “came out?


What’s your leverage?

What do women want? A relationship with healthy alpha male.
What do men want? As much sex as possible [with multiple women].

A little bit simplified but biologically women seek protection from alpha man, and men seek to spread their semen to all most attractive females.

Leverage that.

Don’t run around desperately trying to get a girlfriend. Don’t give up your power as a man. Your protection comes at price. Her sex.

In real relationship, healthy one, it’s never like this “you fuck me, I’ll protect you” it’s mostly subconsciously communicated already. When girl says “I am with Michael, because he treats me well” she really means: I feel safe and protected with him. He’s my leader and he’s best I can do.
When guy says “I really love Julie, she’s absolutely gorgeous and she is nice” what he really means is: goddamn, she’s hot, she has personality and she’s best I can do.

Why “Best I can do?” Because, our best is only perception, but this is better left for a different thread.

For a woman getting laid isn’t really that difficult. However getting a man to stick around longer is much harder. This is why women withhold sex because they don’t want to come off easy and they want to put price on that sex. They want man to invest in them (emotionally) and start relationship and then they can ‘give up’ sex.

For a man getting into relationship with sexual partner is not hard. However, getting a woman to start a sexual relationship is much harder. It’s a lot easier to date your fuck buddy, because she is already invested into you. This is why men (alpha men) do not commit to a woman. They want to get sex first (woman’s investment) and then, and only then, if they choose to, they will reward her with relationship and loyalty.


So what’s hard for us, is easy for them, what’s hard for them is easy for us.


Once you understand your leverage, you will not see this as “women have it easier” but you will see this that each of sexes has their own challenges.


As far as your selection goes, remember, that top 20 percent of men fuck 80 of women and bottom 20 percent of women fuck 80 of man.

That being said, you need to grow your value to be the TOP 20 percent of men that get to fuck 80 percent of woman, and not the 80 percent of men that take up scraps (bottom 20 percent of woman) that alpha top 20 percent did NOT want.



Women do not have it easier. Woman face different challenges.

fabianboi
10-2008-28, 06:55 PM
I cried while reading this thread. "Now a vote for this thread to go straight to Best of Forum"

(raises hand!)

yaaay

nereis
10-2008-28, 07:37 PM
Truestory for President! This shit should go down in a constitution somwhere.

atmosphere01
10-2008-28, 09:10 PM
Wow.

Fireshade
10-2008-28, 09:35 PM
well, it took me 20 mins to read, but yeah, definitely in the best of.

How long did that take you to write? It seems like something you'd been thinking about for a month and was finally good to get down on paper.

Ucfsaxman
10-2008-28, 09:36 PM
"you will have 10-20% of Ugly fat nasty vomit inducing women" Quote of the year.

Hell of a post sometimes people need everything written out (literally) to understand certain concepts.

5 stars from me!

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 05:14 AM
thanks guys.

I had this post scattered around random writings i did on my computer when i was bored. But it really came together after reading Effortless SHeek's post.

It took me about an hour or so?

_Ghost_
10-2008-29, 05:59 AM
Very important post. I can tell you've been thinking about this for a while, and your writing is succinct as always TrueStory.

I vote Best Of.

Keldas
10-2008-29, 09:22 AM
Well, seeing that I haven't had sex for a year I guess I am residing at the bottom of the pile. Being in that position can be frustrating, but my mild frustration pales into insignificance compared to the frustration experienced by a childless woman in her early 30s. Isn't life grand?

Effortless Sheek
10-2008-29, 09:46 AM
Thank you very much for writing that up for me and the rest of the camp.

I'm glad I could inspire you! :)

I too vote it for best of!

I had a few questions stem from this post but I will ask just one for now.

With regards to qualifying a girl would you say that it raises attraction just because of her subconscious mechanism of wanting to 'keep' the 'high value guy'. She wants to 'possess' this high value man so she can add to her survival and rep stockade, but ironically if she does 'tame the wildman' then she will no longer be attracted to those traits which attracted her in the first place now that she has betaised him. What a paradox! The A3 phase is to show that we are into her for more than her looks so we won't just fuck her and leave her (so it appears! :))

So my question- does qualification (false or otherwise) raise attraction due to it making it seem like the girl is 'winning us over'? as we appear to be interested in more than her looks and thus we aren't just going to fuck and chuck her. We first must be a challenge to appear high value (some thing she wants but can't have) but then offer the possibility of her possessing this high value specimen as we begin to show her that she has a shot. If we continued to play the hard to get gig then most girls' auto rejection mechanism would kick in and they would lose interest due to our not showing genuine interest in them (apart from party chicks being the exception to the rule).

I was reading IJJJJI's archives the other day where he states that 'attraction is just giving the girls a little less rapport than she wants'. So at first we give less than non- breaking rapport with her, then later we give her a little, but never total validation which would cause her to no longer desire us (don't want what they have too much of). So the giving a little less than she wants allows her to taste the sweetness of the carrot while still dangling it overhead and never giving her the whole thing thus losing the challenge. So if we gave too little she'd likely get frustrated and leave, but if we gave too much then she'd also leave due to us being betaised even though she was TRYING to get rapport with us (which is the case when a girl marries a guy and betaises him then despises his betaness when she was originally attracted).

Are my summations correct?

fees
10-2008-29, 10:42 AM
Thank you for this awesome post !

Radiating
10-2008-29, 10:54 AM
interesting for what I skimmed. I'll try to comment on a few things after a re-read, that was long. thanks as usual because you put things together effciently.

Update: holy fucking shit. You had about 5 or 6 major things i would say were wrong with that at it's core, 3 of them proven in psychology actually, but, and this is a big qualifier, HOLY SHIT your post came across as accurate. Everything you said really needs to be believed, deeply interpreted? Not so much, there are better posts for that, but in terms of being taken for what it is, this is great to do so.

you've outdone yourself in a really good way.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 11:33 AM
Thank you very much for writing that up for me and the rest of the camp.

I'm glad I could inspire you! :)

I too vote it for best of!

I had a few questions stem from this post but I will ask just one for now.

With regards to qualifying a girl would you say that it raises attraction just because of her subconscious mechanism of wanting to 'keep' the 'high value guy'. She wants to 'possess' this high value man so she can add to her survival and rep stockade, but ironically if she does 'tame the wildman' then she will no longer be attracted to those traits which attracted her in the first place now that she has betaised him. What a paradox!

well that's why we still exist, because of that drive to get what we don't have.

Yes. Evolutionary speaking, she wants to get pregnant by alpha male and then have him long enough until child is born and perhaps old enough to survive on his own.

But in real world..........
........ yeah



So my question- does qualification (false or otherwise) raise attraction due to it making it seem like the girl is 'winning us over'? as we appear to be interested in more than her looks and thus we aren't just going to fuck and chuck her.

If you're still thinking about 'logically' convincing women to fuck you, you're still missing the point of 'attraction game'




We first must be a challenge to appear high value (some thing she wants but can't have) but then offer the possibility of her possessing this high value specimen as we begin to show her that she has a shot. If we continued to play the hard to get gig then most girls' auto rejection mechanism would kick in and they would lose interest due to our not showing genuine interest in them (apart from party chicks being the exception to the rule).

You're seriously overthinking the whole attraction game.

It's an emotional drive. She sees man high value and she doesn't consciously realize it.

What, in essence we do by DHVing and acting like high value guy, is becoming high value ourselves.

Fake it till you make it kind of thinking here.


I was reading IJJJJI's archives the other day where he states that 'attraction is just giving the girls a little less rapport than she wants'. So at first we give less than non- breaking rapport with her, then later we give her a little, but never total validation which would cause her to no longer desire us (don't want what they have too much of). So the giving a little less than she wants allows her to taste the sweetness of the carrot while still dangling it overhead and never giving her the whole thing thus losing the challenge. So if we gave too little she'd likely get frustrated and leave, but if we gave too much then she'd also leave due to us being betaised even though she was TRYING to get rapport with us (which is the case when a girl marries a guy and betaises him then despises his betaness when she was originally attracted).

Are my summations correct?

All these little tips & tricks may work in the moment. You will get 'lucky' with a girl because you triggered some attraction switches and she got emotional and fucked you.

What you have experienced from reading many posts on this board is that guys will get girls all hyped up, get the number, but then later run into serious buyers remorse.

Considering you're gaming 'out of your league', as in, you're medium value guy going after high value girls, since women are mostly emotional creatures they will be entertained by your presentation then and there. (with the help of alcohol) They might even let you escalate to kissing, you might even get lucky and take her home, maybe fool around. But when her emotions fizzle down, she really sees you as low-value guy and she's too good for you.

High value guys are high value guys all the way around. They are like Christmas tree green all year round.

By learning the game and practicing your routines you become more comfortable with being high value. It's pretty much inductive process. Instead of adding to your value, you act as if you have value and you naturally pickup things that add to your value.


I can write another post like this just about value itself.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 12:50 PM
Answer this:

at 2 am, or at 1 pm, or even at 5 pm, can she find a steady, loyal and reliable boyfriend?



the reason you think the way you do is because women are scarcity to you. Actually, it is not woman. It's sex.

You value sex, she values relationship.

Two different desires completely.


So you made it evident that women can get laid anytime, majority probably yes. I agree, it is easier for a woman to get laid than it is for a man.

But how bad do women really want sex?

Actually, the "myth" women don't want/like sex as much as guys do is partially true. Woman do not want/like sex with low value guys. Period.


To a woman it is MORE important to find high value guy than to get laid.

To a man it is MORE important to find an attractive girl to have sex.

If your are high value guy you will have no problems having sex with attractive women.



Work on your value.
and no, height doesn't have to do anything with that. 6'2'' women are just as attractive as 4'7'' women. It's just media and magazines telling you what you should see attractive.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 01:06 PM
For kicks and shits i googled "who has it easier, guys or girls"

some results i found:

essays research papers - Who Has It Easier, Guys Vs Girls (http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=96541)
Who has it easier guys or girls and why? | Answerbag.com (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/758560)
WikiAnswers - Who has an easier life girls or boys (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_has_an_easier_life_girls_or_boys)
Who do you think has it easier? girls or guys? ? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080928022420AAC6sYx) << my favorite!
Kids' Turn Kids'perts - Who has it Easier? Girls or Boys? (http://www.kidsturncentral.com/kidsperts/kptopic3.htm)
Is it easier to be a guy or a girl? | Answerbag.com (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/945041)
CollegeNET Forum - Does Boys or Girls have it easier? (http://www.collegenet.com/elect/app/app?service=external/Forum&sp=4952)
Poll | Boys vs. Girls - who has it easier? (http://forum.letssingit.com/topic/17884/boys-vs-girls-who-has-it-easier/7)
who has it easier (http://www.ozzu.com/general-discussion/who-has-easier-t66101.html)

and even when it came down to one night stand:
Easier for guys or girls to have a one night stand? (Guys and Girls please...)? - Yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080903110347AA0hAVG)


and relationship wise:
YM: Do you think the guys have it easier, ... (http://www.ym.com/thread.jspa?messageID=12704947)


When I like a guy, it's really hard for me to get over him. Usually I have to like someone else to get over the guy I like. But it seems to me that guys aren't like that with girls. Almost all the guys that have liked me, got over me fairly quickly, or didn't really get emotional or upset when I've told them that I don't like them




I didn't even hand pick those.

those are RANDOM sample from random users posting on random sites.


Notice how ALL girls are screaming "Boys have it easier" just like you're screaming: "girls have it easier"


It's the same. Different challenges for different genders.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 01:13 PM
I dont agree. Women do not care about the reliable boyfriend scenario. Look around and see all of the jerks and losers they date. They do this for entertainment factor. They can support themselves, have disposable income, have children on their own, buy their won homes - they do not need men. Only good looking men need apply. That kind of confirms that.

Height is a major issue for men and women. You may be tall so you might have no idea. It is the #1 DHV hands down in attraction. A tall average looking guy will always have an advantage over a shorter even guy - any day. There are many studies on this. Yes there are short men that have women in their life. But that is far and few.

Actually beyond my horrible dating life (really I should say non-existant) I am a high value guy per say. I have a top education, am boyishly handsome, am short so that I guess lowers my overall value (you have to admit it does), have a great career, witty, play guitar in a blues rock band that does well, have studied so much material on "value" but could'nt get laid if I was in a womans prison. And I have tried and tried. MM has not worked for me and to be honest I am very lost. Yes sex is scarce - its non-existent for me. i will admit that. For a woman similar to me in "value" she could have sex anytime she wants. For me - I cannot.


you tell me that look matters and height matters but then you tell me you are handsome but you don't get any girls because you are short?


that is the biggest load of horse crap i've heard in a while.

You know what this is? It's excuse for your laziness.


When was last time you actually went out and talked to a girl you don't know?!

Did you come in and projected yourself as a sexual man that will fuck the shit out of her and will lead her as man? Or did you come in conveying with everything that's possible:
"well there it goes, hi, here i am , i am short, please like me, i have low self esteem because of this, and nobody likes me. Please do notice my humble body language because I am short, and please do notice that i don't speak like a alpha male, because, i have many limiting beliefs that makes me feel less of a man, I am also angry because, I was in 'woman' prison, and for some reason, please pay attention, i have bitter attitude towards you, woman, because, somehow you are better than me and rest of us man. Did you also see how i am socially conditioned to praise you? Thank you for giving me a chance and appreciate your time. I knew you really wouldn't like me, but I approached you anyways, because some TrueStory dude told me"

Is that how it went?

=)

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 01:29 PM
You should email that guy, be friends with him and you two can be miserable together thinking how woman have it made. Except he has game.

But i tell you what,
I am still waiting to see a woman president (God forbid McCain dies), I don't see many women that started fortune 500 companies, majority of Congress and Senate are men, man gets $1 on .70 cents on salary, there are more man with college degree, we age gracefully, they turn into hags, i still think in long run man "win"


Sex? Why is sex so important? I don't understand?

Vapor
10-2008-29, 01:37 PM
sperkgs, you just have self-limiting beliefs. Fader is your height, has average looks, and does great.

There are a LOT of short guys out there doing great. That won't convince you, because you've been here long enough to know better and still don't, but it has nothing to do with this thread. If you want to start a new thread on height feel free, but don't clutter this one up with off topic issues.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 01:38 PM
Its not shit my friend. I think you are full of crap. Its the truth you just cannot admit that all of your theories may not work for everyone.

You must be a taller guy for you do not understand what a shorter guy goes throught. I can tell in our language. Just like I have no idea what black person goes through (because I am not black) you do not understand. I get turned down quite often due to my height. Ever witness personal ads? Just about all woman want a guy taller than 5'10..so I have run my profile on match.com at my height - 5'7 and at 5'10, 6ft,ect and guess which ones get a ton of responses - its not the 5'7 one...so clearly there is a pattern here....Its the same in clubs....women will tell you straight to your face (non-shit test) that you are not tall enough or funny enough or whatever. This whole PUA community is like fairytale land. Its quite discouraging.....

Possibly. Just like get-rich-quick websites.


But, there are people getting rich in this country, so there are people guys that learned how to get girls too. Maybe not overnight.


My theories do not apply to everyone?

I don't know man, i used to think the same way.

Actually to make things even worse, I used to think, back in high school, that ALL black man stole all white girls. Believe that, huh!?

And when my black friends would say, i was wrong, I told them "well you are not white you don't know what's its like"

Then i used to think that ALL muscular guys used to steal all hot girls.


How fucking ridiculous?!!? Right?!

It's perspective. You will see what you want to see.

You believe sooo bad that short guys don't get girls, you will look for ways to validate your theory. You will find EVERY SINGLE instant of tall guy having tall girl. You will completely overlook any occurrence of shorter guy and taller girl, you will ignore those cases because they contradict your theory. And nobody likes to be wrong.


Whether you get girls or not, i don't really care. I don't want to convince you, and only you, since you're the only one who seems to have this opinion, that height has anything to do with getting girls.

Is it easier for taller guys get girls? Yeah there is probably scientific evidence it is. But i've seen some guys, much shorter than me outgame me that it blew my mind.

It's whatever you want to believe....if you think that 'certain' type has it easier, than you will see it that way.



Also the point of this article was to point out that female have it just as difficult when it comes to dating. Those are different challenges.

And just because 10% of girls in the world have it easier than most guys, when it comes to dating, it, absolutely DOES NOT mean that ALL girls have it easier.


You have to look at everything as a balanced combination. Woman have their 'powers' and man have theirs. If universe was unbalanced we wouldn't be here.

Keldas
10-2008-29, 03:39 PM
It would be comforting to assume that hot women date equally hot guys, but in my experience that is not always the case. I have two friends. They could both be described as naturals. Each of them is short and ugly. One is even chronically overweight. They have absolutely no dress sense either for that matter. And yet they have slept with hundreds of women. Granted, some of the girls that they have slept with were absolute dogs but others were hot. I saw some of the hot girls with my own eyes and they were 8+.

What both of them do have is oodles of charm and the ability to tell a great story. One of them has a great sense of humour. Sometimes girls like to have quick flings with fun guys that make them feel special - these guys deliver on that promise.

There is a PUA called David X who is fat and ugly but he is damn alpha. Check out his videos online. Incidentally, he appears to have no dress sense whatsoever.

So yeah, girls like to have meaningful relationships but they also like to have fun as well. In fact, you get many girls who have a serious boyfriend and a fun sexy guy on the side. They want to have their cake and eat it just as much as us.

sagacity
10-2008-29, 03:50 PM
Women do have it harder. Women have to play it passively; the only thing they can control is how they dress and act to get guys to come to them; dress too slutty and you get guys who only want to fuck, do the opposite and you probably won't attract too many guys period.

And they can't approach either, it fucks up the male/female gender roles. A lot of guys have issues with women who come on strong.

silverghost
10-2008-29, 05:18 PM
Indeed a great post but I do have some pointers:

1. From my expirience stereotyping too much brings negative results and misinterpretations.

2. Nowdays most women are beautiful if they aint lazy and have some money. (Take an ugly woman and put some make up on her, give her a plastic surgury etc etc and she ll become beautiful. I think there was a reality show with this?)

3. Its true that the exceptions are many. I also do see a lot of beautiful women with loser guys all the time. What? Yes I do lay some of them but why they are with losers in the first place?

4. Women's attraction switches do evolve. Since its pretty much safe nowdays the protector of loved ones is assumed most of the times (sadly). Preselection does work still but it can backfire for obvious reasons. And leader of men well lets say I do know many women that like to control their men.

5. Again its mostly a cultural thing as I said before and no its not just the opener that changes based on my expirience since I have gamed girls from at least 5-6 countries. For example swedish chicks do tell me that they like a dominant man, while greek girls tend to enjoy the attention they get from men and stay single because of ego feeding tendancies. On the states yes girls are much more receptive at least in LA that I know. This goes on and on.

6. Also the title should have been more specific. Beautiful girls have it easier than alpha males or something like that. For example a beautiful girl can sleep her way up career wise. An alpha guy cant. On the other hand a beautiful girl as you mentioned has power till her 35 max because her beauty fades after that.

7. Girls tend to be go after resources even if that nice Porsche you have is your dad's. No girl will go into the trouble of seeing if you have ambition to get one in 10 years. (I mean when you go for one night stand and she knows what does she care if you ll become a billionair in 10 years?)

8. By no means I am whining or disagree here. Thank god and the community my success ratio is good enough but still some things need to be said. The community makes us greater people because it uses the ultimate motive for a man. Women. And to get women some people make their lives better because of them. A good progress if you ask me.

9. One of the best points the post had was that if any man could get laid 2 times a week with different chicks noone would ever get into a relationship. This is so true that you can put it in the Bible lol even if i am not a believer.

EDIT 10. Also there is a tendancy for role reversal. Men tend to be submissive at this age while women tend to go more dominant. This fucks up their wiring.

So yes I d say this post should go to the best of forum but still I am curious to get some answers. Lets say a deeper insight to the theory which you can actually add to the original post:)

Doctor D
10-2008-29, 05:39 PM
5. Again its mostly a cultural thing


I have to agree as well.

There are cultures out there where if your wife isn't 200 pounds or more, she isn't considered attractive. With the 15,000 cultures on this planet, cultural differences are going to happen regardless of mass media.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 05:48 PM
And there are cultures in which man sit around drink tea and wear makeup while woman go and work.

Folsom
10-2008-29, 06:40 PM
Well, seeing that I haven't had sex for a year I guess I am residing at the bottom of the pile. Being in that position can be frustrating, but my mild frustration pales into insignificance compared to the frustration experienced by a childless woman in her early 30s. Isn't life grand?

Any guy who hasn't had sex in a year really needs to re-evaluate who he's chasing after. If you're 34yo, there are TONS of 44yo women who'd LOVE to fuck you. While the 25yo girls are making your life a living hell, the 44yo women would LOVE to brag to all their friends that they have a young stud servicing them.

Even with all the practice I've had, young girls are STILL flakey as fuck. But I don't care, because I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. While it's a thrill to have sex with a girl who was in kindergarten when I was in college, I have other options for the nights when she's being her normal (flaky) self.

Swish36
10-2008-29, 06:48 PM
Woman has VERY short lived cycle. We have Viagra, they don’t. I can still fuck at age of 80, her having children past age of 50? VERY UNLIKELY! The pressure is on her, and it’s growing fast. While my value is going up, her value is going down. The double edge sword: with my higher value in my 30s I can easily swoop girls in their 20s, 30s, and even 40s. The other side of the coin? Younger guys get to fuck the towel while I fuck their one-itisis.
Lol So if you’re 18…you’re just starting; by the age of 24-25 you’ll reach your masculinity level and you’ll understand what I am talking about.
I just read the whole thing. I got to say, Great! This helped me in a lot of ways.
Thanks TrueStory! :D

Folsom
10-2008-29, 06:49 PM
From your article women have it easier by far. And that has been my experience as well. Yes they might have trouble keeping a man around per say, but they control the strings. It certainly is evident in your article. The problem for a guy absolutely outweights a womans daily concerns. A woman can have sex at any time. A man cannot. Its that simple. Men are disposable in this day and age. Does MM really give you an advantage? I have no idea to be honest. Even after two bootcamps, several consultations, countless product and hundreds (if not more) approaches - I would say women really do have the control and will to be honest. From my standpoint, unless I can find a good teacher or mentor that can make me understand otherwise. Yes, women do have it easier. They can pick and choose.

This is simple darwinism. A million years ago there were alpha male cavemen with enough resources to provide food and shelter for ten women. Do you think there was an alpha-female cavewoman who had the resources to provide for ten men? Of course there wasn't.

So if you're going to rail against the fact that women can have sex any day of the week, you might as well rail against the color of the sun or rail against the air you breathe.

My solution is to go with the flow, and understand that a man of high value can easily curry the attention of many women.

It's only natural.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 07:03 PM
There is a very powerful matrix created around modern culture. Not without help of 'feminists', but it's there to delude man thinking that they are powerless against women.


You haven't seen the matrix yet. You probably lived all your life not seeing how deep this rabbit hole goes.


Man that understand matrix and true relationship between feminine beauty and masculine power get ultimate respect and submission from all kinds of females; attractive and not so attractive.

nereis
10-2008-29, 08:07 PM
You man up and take responsibility for your own reality. You dedicate yourself to getting game. Nothing in this life ever comes for free.

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 08:39 PM
Because, you, like me, were looking for a "quick solution to a problem".

You're significantly older than I am. You probably learned that not many things come easy in this life.

You didn't graduate high school overnight, it took you 4 years, you didn't become Bachelor of Science or Art in a week; but countless nights of late studying, intensive homework, repeated reading, and 7 am friday morning classes..... and result? Higher education.


Take a look back at your FIRST off the wall, right after divorce approaches?

I bet you sucked. I bet you didn't really know what to say, and felt really awkward.


Compare those results to how you feel today. Even if you open 1 set a week, after 3-4 years you'll learn something.


Ok, so you've gotten somewhat better?



Another thing, dating and women is not a problem that needs solution. It's not even a 'challenge'. When you stop thinking of this a something difficult, your mind will stop creating all the reason WHY it is difficult. Because, remember, once you identified something, it will stay true as long as you believe in it.

Follow this analogy:
A family raised christian believes that if he sins, he goes to hell. He also believes that God exists and overlooks his all behavior. He's a teenage boy and still forming his perspective on life and ways of life.
In high school, kids pick on him and he finds it very unfair that God let's other boys pick on him. He sees himself as a good christian and he doesn't understand why. Then at lunch he runs into 'rejected' kids that are too picked by other kids. Those kids, however, wear different kinds of clothes and listen to different kinds of music.
Because of the fact that bigger kids pick on him and those guys, he finds it VERY easy to relate to them. Suddenly he starts hanging out with those kids more often, and soon adopts their style, thoughts and beliefs. A few months go by and he doesn't believe in God anymore. He thinks God doesn't exist, and he's now Goth.

The point i am trying to make is that we influenced by our society and peer groups. And most of man, unfortunately, are like clueless teenagers dabbling their way through relationships.



What typically happens in middle school through high school is that boys that were good looking (they were athletic, popular, social, and well dressed) ended up getting girls (cheerleaders) and guys that were fat, anti-social, depressed, and negative, did not get girls. It was re-enforced even more, by those "good" looking kids calling non-good looking kids names.

Towards graduation and teenage life the not-good-looking kids formed opinion of themselves as ugly and un-attractive, while 'good looking' kids were re-enforced that they were good looking.

This shit carried over to college. Except, negative programming influenced most not-so-good looking kids to the point that if some girl by chance would like them, they must be lucky and this was the only chance they ever had meeting someone. In essence they limited their choices just based on self-limiting beliefs.

While good looking guys would not have girlfriends in college, because, they were going out with confidence and meeting new women.

Meanwhile, not-so-good-looking guys would get married and good looking guys would still stay single or have casual short term relationships. While 'ugly' dudes were stuck in marriages, alpha-good-looking guys would go out and practice their game.

Then the wives would cheat, or regret marrying such low-self esteem guy. They would get divorce and throw the 'not-good-looking' guys on the streets. Often literally in many cases. So now, the chumps are single again and in their 30s-40s.... and they are out in the field competing against either younger guys that are alpha, that didn't get married in their early 20s, or older guys that are still single with 20+ years of dating experience behind their back.


I also wanted to point out, that Married men kind of hung out together, and re-enforced each other's beliefs. This is how it is, this is how it's going to be. They fed off each other's troubles and insecurities. Notice, it's always either group of computer nerds, doctors, or stock brokers in clubs, always together. Those guys relate by job, by lack of women, lack of steady relationship, or lack of exciting sexual life.

While alphas, single dudes, are always out and about with other like minded individuals.

So what did the 'not good looking guys' do wrong?

Nothing. They took advice from 'insecure' jocks, back in middle/high school, and believed that they weren't good looking enough to get hot girls.

Fragile ego was damaged, self limiting believes were formed, and self-perception was doing some devastating work on their egos and self esteem.

I can divulge even deeper in this philosophy by saying that natural tendency to develop other skills for compensating 'imaginary' shortcomings, would be, getting better job to make more money, becoming highly educated to over-compensate lack of perceived looks;

There are a lot of "ugly" doctors, stock brokers, professors, computer programmers / engineers(most promising income job) BECAUSE those jobs would bring MONEY which supposedly get us girls.


Where this whole shit started is from poor self image. Your foundation was either poorly developed (bad high school experience), maybe foundation was not bad (excellent high school game) but college is what damaged your self image....There is a concept floating around community is called Home Town Hero. Guy who only gets laid and pulls women while in high school, but when getting to college he's outcompeted by other guys.



So do you actually have it more difficult? Yes. Because, you have pretty poor self perspective. I know it's hard to admit to this, especially coming from a 25 year old kid, but man, I gotta tell you, it's hard to change the longer you wait.

Bootcamps and David DeAngelo is topical solution. In reality, you can spend thousands of money, but you will never dig deep enough to find core problem to your poor self perspective.

- it could be hate towards women. A very common reason why guys fail. They feel that it's all women's fault and god forbid they didn't man up and took responsibility to beocme more attractive (higher value). PErhaps they had one too many rejections. oopse, bad luck. but they managed to create their whole self perception becasue two girls said no in high school.

- maybe traumatic past experience with past girlfriends/wife. Maybe they dated a whore who cheated on them, and now they resent all women.

- perhaps bad influence from parents. Maybe your dad wasn't around to teach you how to be a man (my case), and you were a mommy's boy. And mom always told you how she thought a man should treat a lady, not how it really is. No reasonable mom will ever teach her son "Johnny, you date many women, don't buy them flowers, never treat them to dinner unless they sleep with you, and if she doens't want to have a threesome, ditch the bitch"






boy;........... i wrote a lot...sorry.

sagacity
10-2008-29, 09:21 PM
9. One of the best points the post had was that if any man could get laid 2 times a week with different chicks noone would ever get into a relationship. This is so true that you can put it in the Bible lol even if i am not a believer.


I'd refute that claim.

Most guys I think are relationship oriented but there's the struggle with commitment issues which is a result of guys settling and always questioning if there's something better "out there".

Maybe I'm just getting older but I'm starting to lean towards wanting a real relationship with somebody that I can stand for more than a week. Fucking for the sake of fucking is easy, you just end up "drowning in a sea of pointless pussy."

TrueStory
10-2008-29, 09:28 PM
We put meanings and attachments to feelings we experience in relationship.

Excitement of new pussy can be easily bored with just as Excitement of someone who cares and "loves" you.

Hue Hefner Paradox is that even man like that will die happy.

Well, Hef is exceptional celebrity case, but there are many guys that live similar polygamous lifestyle and die happy.

It's all perspective, and partially (social) conditioning to seek out mate.

Notice that ANYWHERE you look it's constantly bombarded at you to have loyal mate.


It's not a conspiracy but monogamy has it's political and sociological purpose, such as disease control, and re-distributing wealth as well as desire to purchase property (family values, american dream, etc.)

sagacity
10-2008-29, 09:44 PM
I'd actually argue that the mass media promotes superficiality and newer, younger, "better". Religion definitely pushes that angle, isn't Ohio fairly devout?

At least for me man, I've fucked random women and still felt lonely while I've felt the opposite in a relationship. It is perspective though. Where and what stage you are in your life. Yeah you can get bored in a relationship; lust never lasts, but the connection you have with somebody (if its honestly reciprocated back, which is rare in our society) does.

Good post though.

nereis
10-2008-30, 05:57 AM
True Story - that was a great post and I appreciate your help...

What scares me is that my divorce was ten years ago and over the past decade, I have thought to myself - "I have time to work on this and it will get better"...For while is was better basically due to online game but after I hit 40 that died like a rock...Am I a better man now than when I ended my divorce? Yes and no - it is better in the basic form of knowledge, but actual results are not and in life I have succeeded in just about every facet of my life - be it academics, music, sports, I have lots of friends but dating is a disaster and no matter what or how I try, I just bomb out...its either my calibration is out of whack, the consistent extremes of either women just not responding or brutal shit tests, women telling me and hence rejecting me for being either too old or too short (I know you got on me earlier about this but in my "reality" its a factor I have to deal with) and the usual "boyfriend"...I try to do a minimum of 20-25 cold approaches a week and its to the point where whatever confidence I have left is shot....I really hoped that the concepts of MM would help me and its just been a great disappointing experience - I have never been able to get it straight and I have never seen it actually used in the field - during my MM bootcamp I did not see one demo - not one....so I have tried to do it on my own and it has been brutal....

My approach anxiety is much better - which is a very good thing, though I have to really pinch myself to approach a 9 or a 10 and I have never had good experiences with them....(my ex-wife was a 9 and she was quite difficult at times)....

Yes school takes time but at least there are markers that show you are making progress such as passing tests, getting good marks - there is a "success-achievement" right of passage as you go from one step to another ...with this "game" I see no progression....

Success breeds success - no one can question that....a good date here and there, an occassional kiss-close just something that would make me thing - "hell its hard but there is a good reward - I can make it"...as humans we are response conditioned and its in our nature to want achievement...but there has been none for me for so long and that is what really concerns me...

Thank you for your time

I've seen this thing before. Its the loser's mentality. A man that walks out, faces his opponent, and thinks he'll lose. This will come across in your body language. Girls will shit test you, ie you're short, and you crumble. You think its your looks. It isn't. Its your self-esteem. Style is one of the most underwhelming men in the club. And he has Superstar game.

And to top it off, you're still doing the same, unsuccessful thing for 5 years. Do you have your own routines? Are they field tested? Ever changed it up? Say crazy, off the wall things for shits and giggles? You can't do the same thing for years and expect different results. Analyse what you're doing wrong. Hell submit a field report and we'll give you a second opinion.

Only you can fix your head up. And thats whats really limitting you. Go read 'The Power of Now.' Realise that you are not the sum of your life's experiences.

Nutz
10-2008-30, 12:16 PM
Any guy who hasn't had sex in a year really needs to re-evaluate who he's chasing after. If you're 34yo, there are TONS of 44yo women who'd LOVE to fuck you. While the 25yo girls are making your life a living hell, the 44yo women would LOVE to brag to all their friends that they have a young stud servicing them.

Even with all the practice I've had, young girls are STILL flakey as fuck. But I don't care, because I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket. While it's a thrill to have sex with a girl who was in kindergarten when I was in college, I have other options for the nights when she's being her normal (flaky) self.

I've been feeling the same way. I turned 32 recently and I still game hotties in their 20s, but they're just as shitty by and large as they were before I got game. It's being unaffected by their bullshit that's key. If you want to skip all that noise and take the easy route, go for the older chicks. Once their R value is in the crapper they MUST develop a personality and drop the bitch shield or no guy will pay them any attention.

sunfire
10-2008-31, 11:01 PM
great post man, for the sake of all of us, keep it up!

iWitness
11-2008-02, 04:19 PM
Amazing perspective shift. Best Of 5 Stars

Notebook
11-2008-02, 10:19 PM
Sorry man, but that wasn't a very good post in my opinion. I mean this in a respectful way, because I think a lot of your posts are solid gold and you, as an authority on these forums, can take a little criticism. So much of this post is opinion based and it's very obvious where you're being overly biased. In the end, this isn't a very motivating piece. You cannot go off a standard bell curve to describe the way everyone looks. It's not standardized, and looks are are fairly subjective also.

I feel like the overall message of the post was this: Men born as naturals have it easier than men who need to learn game. Women who aren't born hot have it harder than women born hot (notice how you've paired the idea of 'easier' with women and 'harder' with men.)

There's a lot more I could say about where I disagree, and I don't want to seem like I'm bashing you. But if you want to know, I'll write it up in another post. All in all I appreciate you putting work into a longer piece with a good amount of thought behind it, but it's got some issues

TrueStory
11-2008-02, 10:48 PM
Sorry man, but that wasn't a very good post in my opinion. I mean this in a respectful way, because I think a lot of your posts are solid gold and you, as an authority on these forums, can take a little criticism. So much of this post is opinion based and it's very obvious where you're being overly biased. In the end, this isn't a very motivating piece. You cannot go off a standard bell curve to describe the way everyone looks. It's not standardized, and looks are are fairly subjective also.

I feel like the overall message of the post was this: Men born as naturals have it easier than men who need to learn game. Women who aren't born hot have it harder than women born hot (notice how you've paired the idea of 'easier' with women and 'harder' with men.)

There's a lot more I could say about where I disagree, and I don't want to seem like I'm bashing you. But if you want to know, I'll write it up in another post. All in all I appreciate you putting work into a longer piece with a good amount of thought behind it, but it's got some issues

No man, go ahead, say what you want to say.



This post wasn't meant to motivate and encourage, it was meant to put it in perspective.


When i read 100000 or so messages on this board, everyday, guys claiming: "women have it easier, man have it hard" i just wanted to show them that women do have their challenges as well.



Aside from personal experience, you don't believe in standard distribution?

When you say i paired 'women' with 'easier' and 'men' with 'hard', what do you mean?

If i understand you correctly, you're saying that it still conveys that women have it easier?

No not really. I was speaking on terms of my audience, guys that believe women have it easier. It's easier to write in language most people understand.

It's nitpicking word choice and not Freudian slip.
Hot woman has it easier in dating up to certain extend.
Natural man has it easier in dating because he genetically posses ability to protect and provide.
Guys that "do not have game" are just guys that don't have evolution-approved genetic makeup. But we live in modern society, so what does it matter?


Women that are ugly should not reproduce, according to evolution, because, they carry un-attractive genes. Well you still see a bunch of ugly fat chicks popping out babies with equivalent of unattractive male(s) counterpart.

I want to hear your point of view, maybe i am not understanding you correctly.

Folsom
11-2008-02, 11:18 PM
I've been feeling the same way. I turned 32 recently and I still game hotties in their 20s, but they're just as shitty by and large as they were before I got game. It's being unaffected by their bullshit that's key. If you want to skip all that noise and take the easy route, go for the older chicks. Once their R value is in the crapper they MUST develop a personality and drop the bitch shield or no guy will pay them any attention.

Ain't that the truth!

I date a wide range of girls - the youngest I've date was 12yrs younger than me, the oldest was a year older than I am.

Recently I was hanging out with the girl who's 12yrs younger than I am, and it made me LOL to see how bitchy and stuck up she is. And the funny thing is I've dated girls who are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay hotter than her. But she's young, and she's accustomed to guys eating out of her hand. It's amazing how a woman's bitch shield disintegrates from the age of 25 to 30.

(this particular girl is 25 right now - I met her on Match two years ago.)

It really makes me empathize for women who are turning 30. It must be terrifying to realize how quickly your "value" drops, and it happens at the same time that the urge to settle down is kicking in big time. It must be totally harsh to realize that the same guys who used to go crazy for you are now chasing girls who are 5-10 years younger than you.

Notebook
11-2008-03, 08:10 PM
Going back to the original post, it's things like this that annoyed me:


We have Viagra, they don’t. I can still fuck at age of 80, her having children past age of 50? VERY UNLIKELY! The pressure is on her, and it’s growing fast. While my value is going up, her value is going down.

Your basing a man's value on his ability to have sex, not his evolutionary responsibilities, which you ARE doing for women. Women can have sex in their 80's without any help from medication. True, they cannot reproduce, but can a man in his 80's protect and survive as well as a man in his 30's? This is where you're plainly being biased.

Also, in the next section when you listed off all the things a girl can do to improve their ability to get guys, you're basically fluffing the list with extra things. Many of the things you listed for them are opposites of the guy's list. I liked the way you mirrored some things. But when you say girls must attempt not to come off as sluts, then shouldn't you agree that guys must attempt not to look like a needy chump?

That's why I said you sort of paired men with the idea of having it easy and women with the idea of hard. If you are trying to say that men and women are equal in difficulties, then I agree, but it just wasn't all that clear. I guess you were just trying to straighten out some false beliefs that other people on the board have?

You base almost all your points on very basic evolutionary wirings. I think you should take in account for the complexities of life. I've never liked an HB10, while I've had an unhealthy amount oneitis for an HB8. Maybe you could argue that I've never liked one because I've never felt I had a chance with one, so again, this just comes down to an opinion. This debate could easily take a turn to religion, and I'm not gonna go there, but I'll just say I believe in God and I think things are more complicated than living out a life we were designed to live out in a caveman era.

leprechaun25
11-2008-03, 09:32 PM
Sweet post. Moped joke was really funny too.

TrueStory
11-2008-03, 11:22 PM
Going back to the original post, it's things like this that annoyed me:



Your basing a man's value on his ability to have sex, not his evolutionary responsibilities, which you ARE doing for women. Women can have sex in their 80's without any help from medication. True, they cannot reproduce, but can a man in his 80's protect and survive as well as a man in his 30's? This is where you're plainly being biased.

Also, in the next section when you listed off all the things a girl can do to improve their ability to get guys, you're basically fluffing the list with extra things. Many of the things you listed for them are opposites of the guy's list. I liked the way you mirrored some things. But when you say girls must attempt not to come off as sluts, then shouldn't you agree that guys must attempt not to look like a needy chump?

That's why I said you sort of paired men with the idea of having it easy and women with the idea of hard. If you are trying to say that men and women are equal in difficulties, then I agree, but it just wasn't all that clear. I guess you were just trying to straighten out some false beliefs that other people on the board have?

You base almost all your points on very basic evolutionary wirings. I think you should take in account for the complexities of life. I've never liked an HB10, while I've had an unhealthy amount oneitis for an HB8. Maybe you could argue that I've never liked one because I've never felt I had a chance with one, so again, this just comes down to an opinion. This debate could easily take a turn to religion, and I'm not gonna go there, but I'll just say I believe in God and I think things are more complicated than living out a life we were designed to live out in a caveman era.



oookey i see where you're going with this.


Maybe this will help you understand the point of this post:

- If you believe that woman have just as hard time dating as men, but in different aspects, would that release your inhibition to approach, attract, and feel confident about that?

and this question:

- If any guy, with any level of the game, can see women as human beings and not some Goddess-like untouchable creation, would that help them be more successful?

And finally, each one of us have different way of getting there. Whether you want to account for social structure of our society, or cultural makup of people around you, or religious beliefs, these are just the different ways to get there. By "there" i am refering to seeing women as human beings with challenges, just like us men.

Of course I've missed some aspects of comparing man to woman and difficulties each sex has, (including culture, religion and other factors) but all in all it doesn't change anything.

It's like our basic needs are are food and shelter, we still have those needs no matter what culture you live in, what God you believe in or what country you are from.

So if woman's basic need to find provider and protector, it still her basic need no matter if we have civilization or if we don't.

Of course, culture, societal structure, religion, even political orientation, complicate things, but we find certain types attractive and often that attraction does not account for those things.


If you see stranger across the room, that looks attractive to you, you don't really know whether he/she is rich, famous, Christian or Muslim, straight or gay, republican or democrat or communist, it doesn't matter. You see them, you find them attractive, that's the point.

Even though later on you can learn that he or she is different culture from you, rich or poor, believes in God or not, and you can make logical decision whether you want to be with that person or not.

And don't tell me that you lose attraction because she makes only 26K a year. Or don't tell me you lose attraction because she has a child. And another favorite of mine, man claim to lose attraction because, she has been sleeping with many men before. That's all socially programmed bull shit beliefs that we are inhibited with.



You're trying to complicate something that does not need to be complicated. The more complicated you make, such basic principle as physiological attraction, the less success you will have.

Just like many extremely smart guys, on this boards, sit for hours ponder about every single thing related to pickup, think their words over and over, create 'what if' situations, hesitate to approach, over-analyze each word she utters, study field reports, practice in front of the mirror, create elaborate DHV stories, circle jerk over different openers, those guys, fail miserably. Why? Because, attraction and attracting is biological, not logical.


I am still not following your point, what are you arguing,

that girls have it easier?
that i am oversimplifying things?
that guys have it harder?


Tell me your point?

Effortless Sheek
11-2008-04, 02:19 AM
I wrote a reply to this post on another board. I thought it pertinent to add here.

Yeah it makes sense what Wayne says about the human transaction part. -He said that all human interaction is human TRANSaction.

I had an ABYSMAL night last night but this morning when I look at it, I did badly just because I didn't bring enough value to the table.

If you just view a woman's sexual value as a commodity to be sold/traded like any other then this makes alot more sense.

They have prospectors/guys coming up to them all day long offering to make (usually) a very bad sale for the girl's goods- her sexual value. These guys offer no value into the girl's lives and yet want all her value. So of course as hot girls have so many options they are not willing to sell right away and thus can be choosy about who they make the sale to and keep their wares on show until the right price is offered. Once a guy who has value comes into the girl's lives she automatically becomes compliant to him as he now has something she wants- this is seen as attraction.

The big diff between guys and girls is that girls have 'heavily front loaded' value. Ie they just have to dress hot and nearly all their value is paraded to the world in pristigne condition with little effort on their part (No-one try and give me 'a girl must have personality for ME bullshit! This is armchair rhetoric as the only reason you like the girl in the first place is cos of her sexual value- 'evolutionaryily hard wired' as our old chum Mystery would say). Thing is though, for us guys apporaching a girl, especially in a club where she has her value pumped to maximum, we are nought more than beggers on the street until we prove orselves different by actively showing the girl our prospects (gaming her). This is because a guy's value is not primarily derived from our looks but other factors- social value etc etc.

When we become needy it shows low value in that we want to make a QUICK sale and will take what we can, and thus we must not have much value on offer- hence the girl locks up and moves away to shake her wares somewhere else.

So the remedy is just- be non needy and PLOW the girl with value until she opens up, then the bartering of goods proper can begin once she now sees you as a commodity.

Now I have the theory down the hard part is just actualising this on a consistent basis to make some solid sales!

new2town
11-2008-04, 05:58 AM
TrueStory - is that 20/80 rule in U.S. society legit? I thought a guy's value lowered to other women when he had a girl because it subconsciously signalled to the other girls that he is taken an unavailable?

Doctor D
11-2008-04, 12:24 PM
Going back to the original post, it's things like this that annoyed me:



Your basing a man's value on his ability to have sex, not his evolutionary responsibilities, which you ARE doing for women. Women can have sex in their 80's without any help from medication. True, they cannot reproduce, but can a man in his 80's protect and survive as well as a man in his 30's? This is where you're plainly being biased.

To add to this: The quality of the sperm also decreases as you age, same with eggs in women. A man in his 20s will have much better sperm than a man who is 80. As the quality decreases the likelihood of a genetic disorder occurring increases.

silverghost
11-2008-05, 02:28 PM
You overthink this. You can agree and you can disagree but you wont get anywhere because its way too complicated and generalized to even go close to the truth. If you truely want to find answers go and read sociology and evolutionary psychology and so many other books about it.
So what if girls have it easy? Who really gives a damn and even if they do what can you really do? Nothing. Build two theories.One Has as a base that women do have it easy and another that women dont have it easy. Guess what one of them will be true.
Idealism is great as long as you do something when you land on the real world and not say oh man they have it easy I wanna cut my balls and suicide. (or have sex change?:P)
Both men and women have it easy on some areas and both have it hard on other areas. Get over it.

Notebook
11-2008-05, 04:04 PM
- If you believe that woman have just as hard time dating as men, but in different aspects, would that release your inhibition to approach, attract, and feel confident about that?




I read something in a different post that I now think about a lot, and it is similar to that statement above. He said nearly all women are as insecure as you are. I think your original post was written in such a one-sided way to make guys, who think women have it so easy, understand that the two sexes are equal.



And don't tell me that you lose attraction because she makes only 26K a year. Or don't tell me you lose attraction because she has a child. And another favorite of mine, man claim to lose attraction because, she has been sleeping with many men before.

Yes. I would honestly lose attraction to her if I found out she had a child or had slept with many other men before.

As for the rest of you post, I don't necessarily over complicate things, especially not in the way that others do on this board whom you were talking about. I just think there's things besides evolutionary traits and S&R value that factor into attraction. You can agree with me that self-limiting beliefs are bad, right? Well I think you should consider some of your beliefs (such as all men are hard-wired to want to sleep with as many hot women as possible) and ask yourself if they are limiting you from having the type of life you want. I just wanted you to realize that, in case you never thought about it. But hey, if all you want to do is fuck tons of women, then go for it.

Miscellaneous
11-2008-06, 12:00 PM
Great post mate.

alexjz
11-2008-06, 03:40 PM
Amazing stuff man. 5*s, v well articulated

I've recently been thinking along similar lines.
Its a lot more hurtful for a girl to get played/messed around by a guy than it is for a chump to get played.

I'm not sure how healthy this is, but whenever I see girls now, what I see are emotional creatures (seeing the matrix?), which, if I wanted to, I could really screw around and mess with their heads completely; or sweep them off their feet by doing stuff which most wouldn't imagine doing (cavemanning, sexualising random convos simply through vibe+EC).

This stuff affords you a real power over girls (power=responsibility tho). They care a lot more that we don't answer their calls than we do theirs, though, unless heavily invested, they'll never admit it.

Love the bit about the 100% need for a man for survival being hardwired (think TD mentioned this somewhere also)-, hence the lows of getting jilted and all the comforting required

Emsley
11-2008-14, 12:28 PM
That, is shit hot.

rep
11-2008-17, 03:29 AM
TrueStroy good post. I'm really interested in your view on value.