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TopNotch
01-2008-13, 12:33 PM
This happened.

- Would you like to kiss me?
- I don't know.
- Let's find out. Come here.
- No...
- Come on. (motioning to come closer)
- No...it would make everything feel strange...

I'm not going to break down the possible reasons behind the rejection (although I have some good estimates) but I'm more interested in how would you answer that? I mean I have never seen the gambit fail at this point. :D

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-13, 12:46 PM
Pick up is not a science. That's why someone who does it well is called a "Pick Up Artist," not a "Pick Up Scientist."

Don't worry about something not working every time.

This girl REALLY didn't want to kiss you. Move on to the next.

And expand your kissing encounter repetoire. You'll experience more kissing that way.

_Hollywood_
01-2008-13, 12:51 PM
Pick up is not a science. That's why someone who does it well is called a "Pick Up Artist," not a "Pick Up Scientist."

Don't worry about something not working every time.

This girl REALLY didn't want to kiss you. Move on to the next.

And expand your kissing encounter repetoire. You'll experience more kissing that way.

cha-chingggg

TopNotch
01-2008-13, 12:51 PM
Pick up is not a science. That's why someone who does it well is called a "Pick Up Artist," not a "Pick Up Scientist."

Don't worry about something not working every time.

This girl REALLY didn't want to kiss you. Move on to the next.

And expand your kissing encounter repetoire. You'll experience more kissing that way.

Heh...I know. And I'm fairly sure, too, that she didn't actually feel like doing it after all.

It just threw me off balance and didn't know what to say...and I hate that. I want to be able to keep the frame.

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-13, 12:56 PM
Heh...I know. And I'm fairly sure, too, that she didn't actually feel like doing it after all.

It just threw me off balance and didn't know what to say...and I hate that. I want to be able to keep the frame.

The "frame," my friend, is about how you feel about yourself.

Stay positive. Worry less about "keeping the frame." When you have a solid sense of who you are, you realize that there are many kinds of women and opportunities in this world.

I once went to kiss a chick who stopped me.

I was chagrined.

She pointed to a herpes sore under some makeup on her lip.

I was happy.

TopNotch
01-2008-13, 01:02 PM
The "frame," my friend, is about how you feel about yourself.

Stay positive. Worry less about "keeping the frame." When you have a solid sense of who you are, you realize that there are many kinds of women and opportunities in this world.

I once went to kiss a chick who stopped me.

I was chagrined.

She pointed to a herpes sore under some makeup on her lip.

I was happy.

ROFL! :D Ok, that was a good one.

Yeah it's no big deal, her loss. :) Just wanted a quick opinion on what to say.

MJX
01-2008-13, 01:03 PM
Another reason it probably didnt work was, u didnt have enough attraction. but u didnt say what u ran or how long u were in set. u may have also telegraphed too much interest. or you didnt kino enough, or her freinds were near by, or a hundred other things...

rule of thumb: get her giggly(about 3 IOIs) "sorry sweatheart itll never work out." *turn away**Kiss* should take about 3 or 4 minutes

_Hollywood_
01-2008-13, 01:05 PM
Another reason it probably didnt work was, u didnt have enough attraction. but u didnt say what u ran or how long u were in set. u may have also telegraphed too much interest. or you didnt kino enough, or her freinds were near by, or a hundred other things...

rule of thumb: get her giggly(about 3 IOIs) "sorry sweatheart itll never work out." *turn away**Kiss* should take about 3 or 4 minutes

Or...maybe DeadEyeDick was right and she just didn't want to kiss him?

IT'S NOT MATH.

IT'S LIFE.

kthxbye.

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-13, 01:06 PM
She may have felt sick, doesn't kiss guys she doesn't know, is gay, just burped, just puked, was about to shit herself, had funky breath, you had funky breath, you looked like her priest, she just had dental work ...

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-13, 01:11 PM
Bedtime story (and the reason I don't use lines before kissing a chick. I just kiss her):

When I was 19 (25 years ago) I was out with a girl I was ass-over-teakettle for ... rays of sunshine were always blasting out of her ass ... she smelled like roses ... when I thought of her I heard opera music coming from the toilet.

So I asked my brother Moondog how to get my first kiss.

He says, "Take her for a walk on the beach, and at the right time, turn to her and say, 'Can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?'"

This was the killer fucking line of all killer fucking lines.

So I takes my special girl for a walk along the beach.

When it felt like my heart was going to jump out of my chest, and I didn't know whether to shit or go blind, I said, "Rachel, can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?"

She said something.

I have no idea what it was.

There was a loud roaring in my ears because I was about to kiss the object of my lust.

I leaned in and kissed her.

Fireworks went off.

A chorus of angels began humming.

I may have blown a load in my pants, I don't remember.

We walked back to my shore house. The whole family was in the television room.

There were watching the movie Diner.

I stood in the doorway to the television room with Rachel.

In the movie Diner, there is a scene that takes place in a movie theater.

In the movie within the movie, a man turns to a woman.

And he says,

"Darling, can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?"

I have never used a line to kiss a girl since then.

TopNotch
01-2008-13, 01:25 PM
Another reason it probably didnt work was, u didnt have enough attraction. but u didnt say what u ran or how long u were in set. u may have also telegraphed too much interest. or you didnt kino enough, or her freinds were near by, or a hundred other things...

rule of thumb: get her giggly(about 3 IOIs) "sorry sweatheart itll never work out." *turn away**Kiss* should take about 3 or 4 minutes

Bah let's skip the reasons on why it didn't work (I'm quite sure on that, it was kind of a special situation).

But that rule is a good rule...I have done something like that on day2s. "You just lost a point! Oh no we are so not going to work out".

_Hollywood_
01-2008-13, 01:27 PM
Bedtime story (and the reason I don't use lines before kissing a chick. I just kiss her):

When I was 19 (25 years ago) I was out with a girl I was ass-over-teakettle for ... rays of sunshine were always blasting out of her ass ... she smelled like roses ... when I thought of her I heard opera music coming from the toilet.

So I asked my brother Moondog how to get my first kiss.

He says, "Take her for a walk on the beach, and at the right time, turn to her and say, 'Can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?'"

This was the killer fucking line of all killer fucking lines.

So I takes my special girl for a walk along the beach.

When it felt like my heart was going to jump out of my chest, and I didn't know whether to shit or go blind, I said, "Rachel, can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?"

She said something.

I have no idea what it was.

There was a loud roaring in my ears because I was about to kiss the object of my lust.

I leaned in and kissed her.

Fireworks went off.

A chorus of angels began humming.

I may have blown a load in my pants, I don't remember.

We walked back to my shore house. The whole family was in the television room.

There were watching the movie Diner.

I stood in the doorway to the television room with Rachel.

In the movie Diner, there is a scene that takes place in a movie theater.

In the movie within the movie, a man turns to a woman.

And he says,

"Darling, can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?"

I have never used a line to kiss a girl since then.

FUCKING AMAZING STORY.

TopNotch
01-2008-13, 01:28 PM
Bedtime story (and the reason I don't use lines before kissing a chick. I just kiss her):

When I was 19 (25 years ago) I was out with a girl I was ass-over-teakettle for ... rays of sunshine were always blasting out of her ass ... she smelled like roses ... when I thought of her I heard opera music coming from the toilet.

*clip go the scissors*



Wow. Dude, that was a good bedtime story. A line may sound like a cliché so I kinda see your point.

But hey, it worked right? :)

_Hollywood_
01-2008-13, 01:33 PM
Wow. Dude, that was a good bedtime story. A line may sound like a cliché so I kinda see your point.

But hey, it worked right? :)

You know...this is a PERFECT example of what I rant about here all the time.

Sure, it worked. It worked on the surface to get a little bit of ass/kiss/pussy, whatever. Then after that, it was blown up. She knew it was fake and everything probably went downhill from there. Exactly the same thing happens with lines and routines and stupid rehearsed crap.

What happens when she finds out?

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-13, 02:24 PM
Couple of the finer points to keep in mind:

* In Magic Bullets, Savoy writes, "Kissing is a big deal." Keep that in mind. Some guys get all giddy about getting a chick to kiss them in a club. Yuck. I don't kiss on the first date, because I'd prefer it's something that's anticipated rather than rushed.

* The question you asked is "Would you like to kiss me?" The question Mystery asks is, "Do you want to kiss me?" The difference, for you fans of the "dark arts," is that his question contains an embedded message [you want to kiss me] and yours does not.

* The routines, gambits and other advice on the Forum are tools that you may or may not need to use. For example, if the moment is right to kiss a girl, you should kiss her. You don't need to say anything.

If it's right, it's going to happen.

If it's not right, it doesn't matter much what you say, or how you say it.

To repeat my own rule: I don't use a line to kiss a chick.

MJX
01-2008-13, 03:31 PM
I think everyone got the wrong impression of what i said: after opening a set it should take about 3 or 4 minutes to kiss,

step1: touch (kino) within 4 seconds of opening

step2: make her laugh, and giggle

step3:use a false disqualifier *turning away*

then turn back and just fuckin kiss!

BTW kissing is not that big a deal to girls, they go out with there gurls friends all the time, make out with random cool guys, all the time, just for fun!

TopNotch
01-2008-13, 03:53 PM
Hmm...maybe I'll have to revise my thoughts on kissing? I have somehow always seen it as some sort of guarantee that's something's gonna happen later. Which, of course, it is not.

I don't know. On one hand, you see, it's not a big deal. You're having a good time with someone, laughing, sharing good stories and then just...bam, out of the blue, you just kiss each other. It just happens, and you never really even get to think about it. Whether it leads to anything is not important - it just feels so right to do it.

On the other hand, however, if you sense a good connection coming up, you sort of let it wait for a good time. Usually the kiss is a lot more intense this way because you've both anticipated it. Of course you'll have to make sure the mood is right and that everything feels like it's going to come down to that, eventually. Keep the spark up, you know.

One routine I use for this is when I meet the girl on day2, I'll look at her for a few seconds and say "You know what? Let's not kiss just yet". I then let her respond, and regardless of what she says (I agree, why not, I wasn't gonna etc) continue with "Let's leave something for surprise shall we?" You've expressed your desire to kiss her but you're just holding yourself back for now. Any thoughts on this one?

Anyway...my point is that the kiss CAN be just for fun: quick makeout, having a good time etc...OR it can mean a lot more. Maybe I just have a problem on focusing on the first kind.

Nutz
01-2008-14, 02:55 PM
The "frame," my friend, is about how you feel about yourself.

Stay positive. Worry less about "keeping the frame." When you have a solid sense of who you are, you realize that there are many kinds of women and opportunities in this world.

I once went to kiss a chick who stopped me.

I was chagrined.

She pointed to a herpes sore under some makeup on her lip.

I was happy.

I'm reminded of that scene in Signs when the younger brother is telling Mell Gibson about the chick he was about to make out with, but then she upchucked right before they kissed and how "fate" stepped in and saved him from a horrible experience.

TheChronic
01-2008-14, 03:54 PM
o man dead eye that was a great story bro seriously that is funny as fuck like wtf are the chances of that.

tastyweat
01-2008-14, 04:17 PM
When I was 19 (25 years ago) I was out with a girl I was ass-over-teakettle for ... rays of sunshine were always blasting out of her ass ... she smelled like roses ... when I thought of her I heard opera music coming from the toilet.

Haha... that description made me laugh :D

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-14, 04:22 PM
o man dead eye that was a great story bro seriously that is funny as fuck like wtf are the chances of that.

Truth is stranger than fiction, or so they say. Moondog claims that while I was standing there with Rachel, he was trying to wave me away, but it was dark and I didn't see what he was doing. :rolleyes:

Also, the odds are not as odd as you might think. This was back in the days when a cable movie network would play the same movies over and over again.

Moondog probably heard the line the night before, but the way he said it, I thought he made it up ...

So the fact that it was on again later wasn't so remote. I just wish it had been!

tastyweat
01-2008-14, 04:31 PM
Truth is stranger than fiction, or so they say. Moondog claims that while I was standing there with Rachel, he was trying to wave me away, but it was dark and I didn't see what he was doing. :rolleyes:

Also, the odds are not as odd as you might think. This was back in the days when a cable movie network would play the same movies over and over again.

Moondog probably heard the line the night before, but the way he said it, I thought he made it up ...

So the fact that it was on again later wasn't so remote. I just wish it had been!

Classic! Mind if I turn that into a gambit of my own?

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-14, 04:38 PM
Classic! Mind if I turn that into a gambit of my own?

Permission granted. :D

miaddict
01-2008-14, 04:39 PM
This happened.

- Would you like to kiss me?
- I don't know.
- Let's find out. Come here.
- No...
- Come on. (motioning to come closer)
- No...it would make everything feel strange...

I'm not going to break down the possible reasons behind the rejection (although I have some good estimates) but I'm more interested in how would you answer that? I mean I have never seen the gambit fail at this point. :D

See the bolded line. That's where you screwed up.

You began to SUPPLICATE and became REACTIVE to her. She did not comply? Move on. The gambit did not fail. DHV more, cut the thread and attempt a k-close later.


Here is how it could have gone.

- Would you like to kiss me?
- I don't know.
- Let's find out. Come here.
- No...
Get this. The funniest thing happened the other day at .. bla bla bla

tastyweat
01-2008-14, 04:42 PM
Permission granted. :D

Why thank you :)

Elixir
01-2008-14, 05:33 PM
Nice try buddy but you definitely messed this up.
You were not following TMM model with your response to her IOD.
You see you ned to IOD then stack forward with a new DHV.

TMM MODEL:

HB: IOD
PUA: IOD then instantly DHV

Example:

PUA: Would you like to kiss me?
HB: I don't know.
PUA: Well let's find out. Come here.
HB: No (IOD).
PUA: Okay... I didn't say you could. It just looked like you had something on your mind (IOD). OMG have you ever the movie Poltergeist (DHV)?

tastyweat
01-2008-14, 05:48 PM
Nice try buddy but you definitely messed this up.
You were not following TMM model with your response to her IOD.
You see you ned to IOD then stack forward with a new DHV.

TMM MODEL:

HB: IOD
PUA: IOD then instantly DHV

Example:

PUA: Would you like to kiss me?
HB: I don't know.
PUA: Well let's find out. Come here.
HB: No (IOD).
PUA: Okay... I didn't say you could. It just looked like you had something on your mind (IOD). OMG have you ever the movie Poltergeist (DHV)?

Yeah - that's the right way... but the first line is wrong in a big way.

Change it to - 'Do you want to kiss me?' - much more effective.

Savoy
01-2008-14, 05:50 PM
There are a ton of "kiss closes" in the Love Systems' Routines Manual (http://www.lovesystems.com/routines), including a few that I like way better than this one. I'm actually not sure if any of our instructors still use the one you mentioned, but I don't think so.

FlyRoutine
01-2008-14, 06:40 PM
Man this thread has given me more then a few laughs, from the Herpes story to the Diner/Walk on the beach story.

TopNotch
01-2008-15, 12:37 AM
Oh man. It seems I need to clarify things up a little. :)

I didn't actually say "WOULD you like to kiss me", I just quickly translated what I said into English. I DID say "DO you want to kiss me", so it was ok.

Speaking of why I failed...she told me later that she's really into me and would like to see where things'll go, but she just quit a relationship (I knew this) and just isn't ready to become committed again so quickly. So it wasn't a "me" thing.

Of course, she could be lying, but you can never be sure can you? :) Anyway, it's alright and I told her I totally understand. Maybe later. :D

ZPower
01-2008-16, 03:07 PM
Bedtime story (and the reason I don't use lines before kissing a chick. I just kiss her):

When I was 19 (25 years ago) I was out with a girl I was ass-over-teakettle for ... rays of sunshine were always blasting out of her ass ... she smelled like roses ... when I thought of her I heard opera music coming from the toilet.

So I asked my brother Moondog how to get my first kiss.

He says, "Take her for a walk on the beach, and at the right time, turn to her and say, 'Can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?'"

This was the killer fucking line of all killer fucking lines.

So I takes my special girl for a walk along the beach.

When it felt like my heart was going to jump out of my chest, and I didn't know whether to shit or go blind, I said, "Rachel, can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?"

She said something.

I have no idea what it was.

There was a loud roaring in my ears because I was about to kiss the object of my lust.

I leaned in and kissed her.

Fireworks went off.

A chorus of angels began humming.

I may have blown a load in my pants, I don't remember.

We walked back to my shore house. The whole family was in the television room.

There were watching the movie Diner.

I stood in the doorway to the television room with Rachel.

In the movie Diner, there is a scene that takes place in a movie theater.

In the movie within the movie, a man turns to a woman.

And he says,

"Darling, can I kiss you right here in front of God and everyone?"

I have never used a line to kiss a girl since then.




xaxaxa, fucking awesome :D:D:D

But u missed the best part, what was her reaction, if any visible. because i can see how some girls wouldnt really care.

Ans so what happened to u and Rachel after that? Seems like u had her tied in up until the movie.

ZPower
01-2008-16, 03:11 PM
Hmm...maybe I'll have to revise my thoughts on kissing? I have somehow always seen it as some sort of guarantee that's something's gonna happen later. Which, of course, it is not.

I don't know. On one hand, you see, it's not a big deal. You're having a good time with someone, laughing, sharing good stories and then just...bam, out of the blue, you just kiss each other. It just happens, and you never really even get to think about it. Whether it leads to anything is not important - it just feels so right to do it.

On the other hand, however, if you sense a good connection coming up, you sort of let it wait for a good time. Usually the kiss is a lot more intense this way because you've both anticipated it. Of course you'll have to make sure the mood is right and that everything feels like it's going to come down to that, eventually. Keep the spark up, you know.

One routine I use for this is when I meet the girl on day2, I'll look at her for a few seconds and say "You know what? Let's not kiss just yet". I then let her respond, and regardless of what she says (I agree, why not, I wasn't gonna etc) continue with "Let's leave something for surprise shall we?" You've expressed your desire to kiss her but you're just holding yourself back for now. Any thoughts on this one?

Anyway...my point is that the kiss CAN be just for fun: quick makeout, having a good time etc...OR it can mean a lot more. Maybe I just have a problem on focusing on the first kind.


ya thats what i used to think, that kissing was some sort of a binding statment that we would be fuck buddies or bf-gf, just more sexual. It is if you're 9 or 11, kissing is a big deal, But at 18 and above, its in the comfort zone. Note COMFORT, not seduction

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-16, 03:18 PM
Ans so what happened to u and Rachel after that? Seems like u had her tied in up until the movie.

Either she didn't hear it, or if she did, she pretended not to.

We went out again, dated for 6 months.

I learned everything I know about relationships and love from her.

Like when you're really compatible with someone, when you're talking to her, it's like you're talking to another part of yourself. Perhaps a part you don't know very well.

She was a born-again Christian, and I'm Jewish. She realized from the relationship that it was important to her to marry a born-again Christian, and the next guy she dated was that man.

They are still married and have a few kids. She and I exchange e-mail notes every once in a while.

25 years later.

ZPower
01-2008-16, 03:40 PM
wow, that trully is some story. Sounds like it all worked out too well, especially for her. I'm happy though u guys still talk.

I'm pretty sure she did hear it, there's almost no way she could have missed it. I bet she laughed in her mind and thought it was funny. Chicks know that guys use lines on them, plus your line was definitely very line sounding.

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-16, 03:53 PM
wow, that trully is some story. Sounds like it all worked out too well, especially for her. I'm happy though u guys still talk.

I'm pretty sure she did hear it, there's almost no way she could have missed it. I bet she laughed in her mind and thought it was funny. Chicks know that guys use lines on them, plus your line was definitely very line sounding.

When I realized what was happening, and I heard the line in the movie, my heart started racing and I just stood there.

We never talked about it, but I have a feeling she really didn't care, and we were pretty into each other so it didn't matter in the long run. :)