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sturbo
01-11-2008, 09:36 PM
So... I'm sitting here pondering a thought. The last few months I've really been getting into the whole PUA thing, and have finding myself become a different person. I used to be a complete AFC, and hung out with AFC friends. But I'm finding myself going through a transformation, as I'm sure we all are(did). But I have a thought I wanted to bring up for discussion...

I'm transforming myself to become a PUA, and therefore more "ALPHA"... Doing all the things I read "ALPHA" should do... That is, not acknowledging unworthy comments, making people earn my respect, etc. But here's my problem: I've still been hanging with a group of friends I had in my AFC days. One of them in particular is driving me crazy! He is the most AFC guy you will meet... The type of guy that will cling onto a chick for saying hi. If he finds somebody who is interested (rare), he will basically ignore all of his friends and center his world around her. Well, he pissed me off because of this behavior and lost ALL of my respect. He is still in the group of friends, so I've been finding myself in his presence more than I have wanted. I have already chosen to no longer EVER make plans around him... But the part I am really having a hard time with is being social to him. Lately, I find myself not acknowleding him at all (even to the point of saying hi/bye). In fact, tonight I didn't introduce him to people I backward merged (didn't even introduce his equally clingy girlfriend). And since he is so AFC, I can see that he is trying to win my approval which is making him even more annoying! You know, going out of his way to laugh at my not-so-funny jokes, etc.

I guess in summary... I feel like I'm being a "dick". Is this really the alpha male life? How do you guys deal with people like this? I guess what I'm saying is... I know I shouldn't be hanging with this guy, and I usually don't. But he does end up in the same social situations... But I have a very hard time being accepting and friendly to people I don't like. Is this incongruent with the golden rule? The whole do onto others thought. It's definitely a pride thing... But should I be putting it aside and be pleasant? Or should I hold my ground and be viewed as the asshole????

Thoughts worth discussing?

explorar
01-12-2008, 04:19 PM
as a alpha male you can still learn to handle your 'old afc friends'.
adjust your rules slightly to your situation but don't let your old afc friends hold you back.

you can still keep 'connections on' with low energy input, you don't have to act like a dick. you don't have to be the badass, be the good guy and bring joy in the life of others, share your knowledge with your afc friends and be the leader of your group.

if this advice doesn't apply to your situation

leave your friends, move on, don't let anyone hold you back.

start you journey

sevant
01-12-2008, 05:02 PM
[QUOTE=explorar;373325]as a alpha male you can still learn to handle your 'old afc friends'.
adjust your rules slightly to your situation but don't let your old afc friends hold you back.

you can still keep 'connections on' with low energy input, you don't have to act like a dick. you don't have to be the badass, be the good guy and bring joy in the life of others, share your knowledge with your afc friends and be the leader of your group.

Ok advice I would say. But let me ask you this. Who are you if you set aside all this recently aquired charisma? Are these people really friends of yours? You can define yourself however you like. If you suddenly learned how to pull extreme amounts of cash instead of women would you separate yourself from all the middle income folks you know? I think there is some responsibility to truely becoming someone people admire and want to be around. You can't change them you can try to help them and it is anoing sometimes but you have the choice to be cool to people.

HRHughes
01-12-2008, 07:25 PM
You are what you are.

I started making more money then my friends, and it showed, but now some of them are coming around and its cool for me to show them the ropes of a better income and the lifestyle it brings.
I got rid of the people who became jealous, but my real friends, the true friends, i stick with them.

Dont burn your bridges my friend, you may need to fall back on those friends some day.

If this kid is truely a friend of yours, introduce him to the game, introduce him to what he could be achieving, and you may end up making a Wing that truely admires and appreciates you.

The dude obviously has a void in his soul somewheres, making him like that, making him jump at any chick who says Hi, ect. He just needs some help.

sturbo
01-13-2008, 03:53 AM
I appreciate the input... And you guys have good points. But I'd like to ponder a more general question regarding what we perceive as "alpha"...

I've spent all of my life until now learning the golden rule... The whole do onto others thing. You guys even bring up the general theme in your replies...

Is an "alpha" male nice and social with everybody he meets... Even people he isn't particularly fond of? Or does he shun those he deems not worthy?

I actually care very little of what other people think of me. I don't care if they percieve me as a nice guy, or an a$$. But what I do care about is how I percieve myself. I know this could break out into a discussion on how my perception is my own realitly, blah, blah... I'm not interested in that. I only bring this point up because I don't care how people view me... I'm only being inquisitive into how others THINK an "alpha" male is percieved.

So if you can imagine somebody you percieve as an alpha male (yourself, a buddy, a teacher, etc), how do you percieve that he treats beta males? Is he nice, respectful, etc? Or is it obvious he is above the beta??? If it's obvious, isn't this supplication in itself? Wouldn't he be supplicating to the perceived beta males by changing his behavior in order to reflect this?

One more thought... How "loner" do you guys percieve alpha males to be? I mean, if he was to come across an idea he believed in... Because he is alpha he would pursue it... But if nobody else believed (for what ever reason - hypothetically), wouldn't he be a loner in the absolute sense. In which case there is no alpha/beta? And if he decided not to purse this course of action due to these reasons, he would be beta for supplicating to general opinion???

sevant
01-13-2008, 06:53 AM
I think you are placing to much emphisis on being alpha. The person I model for my life is so powerful not because he claimed a rightful place apart and above others, but because he sacrificed his life for people who he loved. Do you think that is supplicating. There is greatness in humility. You keep mentioning the golden rule. There is another thing that goes along with it. That is to stay true to the beliefs you know are true in your heart with everything you've got.

_Hollywood_
01-13-2008, 09:34 AM
Dude I think you're taking this WAY too seriously.

This "friend" of yours...is he a good friend? Like is he a good friend to YOU? Do you guys get along, have fun hanging out, etc etc? WHY shouldn't you be hanging out with him? He's your friend. Because he's not good with girls, you gotta toss him to the curb? In my opinion, that's a pretty ignorant way of looking at things.

Being "ALPHA" is bullshit. It's fuckin dumb and basically puts a label on "cool" people. Guess what, by definition I'm "ALPHA" as fuck, and everybody knows it. But you know what makes it even more effective? BEING FRIENDS WITH EVERYBODY. If you're really insecure enough about yourself to make sure you're calculating every little thing you do in order to fit into some bullshit mold created by other people, maybe you should take into consideration the fact that popularity really helps your social standing, considering they're pretty much the same thing.

Life is about accepting people for who they are, not what they can do for you. Who gives a fuck if you're friend isn't good with girls? I have plenty of friends who are NOT good with girls, and plenty who are. We all hang out just the same, that's what friends do. Sure, if there's a specific situation where I gotta bring a certain guy along to hang out with some chicks, I know who I'm gonna call, but that doesn't make anyone else less of a friend. Sturbo touched upon this point too.

If being "alpha" is breaking up your social circle, I really think you need to look at things differently. Also, if you don't like him that's fine, but life is about coping with all situations that come your way. LIFE, not GAME. LIFE is REAL.

And no offense, but you're 30 years old, don't go breaking apart shit at that age for the sake of getting pussy, it's hardly worth it, focus on more important things in life than becoming "alpha".

Alpha, beta, kappa, phi, a man is a man.

sevant
01-13-2008, 10:09 AM
This "friend" of yours...is he a good friend? Like is he a good friend to YOU? Do you guys get along, have fun hanging out, etc etc? WHY shouldn't you be hanging out with him? He's your friend. Because he's not good with girls, you gotta toss him to the curb? In my opinion, that's a pretty ignorant way of looking at things.



Life is about accepting people for who they are, not what they can do for you.



And no offense, but you're 30 years old, don't go breaking apart shit at that age for the sake of getting pussy, it's hardly worth it, focus on more important things in life than becoming "alpha".



There are good points here. I think its ok to use the "things" you have available to you to move your life in a desired direction but not the people.
Use things, love people.

MKMK
01-13-2008, 10:26 AM
When you think of school, the most popular person is usually the guy who is nice to everyone, but not necessarily friends with everyone.

They have their own social group, the people they hang out with etc, but they don't act like assholes to people outside of that group. The don't invite them into the group either, as they may not have enough value, but they don't let the people outside the group know that. It's the type of person you talk to 'n think "damn, he's cool as hell", even if you're not really friends with that person.

That's truly alpha.

seldomseen
01-14-2008, 09:11 AM
the alpha man analogy is a bit over played. Be a man of respect, class, integrity and dignity.

DeadEyeDick
01-14-2008, 09:50 AM
I appreciate the input... And you guys have good points. But I'd like to ponder a more general question regarding what we perceive as "alpha"...

I've spent all of my life until now learning the golden rule... The whole do onto others thing. You guys even bring up the general theme in your replies...

Is an "alpha" male nice and social with everybody he meets... Even people he isn't particularly fond of? Or does he shun those he deems not worthy?

I actually care very little of what other people think of me. I don't care if they percieve me as a nice guy, or an a$$. But what I do care about is how I percieve myself. I know this could break out into a discussion on how my perception is my own realitly, blah, blah... I'm not interested in that. I only bring this point up because I don't care how people view me... I'm only being inquisitive into how others THINK an "alpha" male is percieved.

So if you can imagine somebody you percieve as an alpha male (yourself, a buddy, a teacher, etc), how do you percieve that he treats beta males? Is he nice, respectful, etc? Or is it obvious he is above the beta??? If it's obvious, isn't this supplication in itself? Wouldn't he be supplicating to the perceived beta males by changing his behavior in order to reflect this?

One more thought... How "loner" do you guys percieve alpha males to be? I mean, if he was to come across an idea he believed in... Because he is alpha he would pursue it... But if nobody else believed (for what ever reason - hypothetically), wouldn't he be a loner in the absolute sense. In which case there is no alpha/beta? And if he decided not to purse this course of action due to these reasons, he would be beta for supplicating to general opinion???

You can't prescribe the kind of feedback you'll receive.

You seem to want our portrait of what an "alpha" male is.

And some of the more experienced guys on the Forum are telling you to focus on becoming the best man you can be.

Forget the labels. I believe they are leading you WAY off track.

Let me break it to you -- by the time you're about 8 years old, you pretty much have the core personality you'll use the rest of your life.

And if you think back to who you were at 8, all of the keys to who are today are there.

Perhaps you've heard the saying: The child is the father to the man.

Chances are there are some great things to continue to develop about yourself.

And some other things you'd like to have more of.

Whatever those qualities are that you admire in yourself. Develop them.

And whatever the qualities are that you'd like to have because you think they'll make you a better man, develop those, too.

But stop worrying about, or asking us how to, deconstruct your own insides and reconstruct it as an "alpha male."

It's a waste of time. It's a waste of you.

tastyweat
01-14-2008, 09:55 AM
I guess in summary... I feel like I'm being a "dick". Is this really the alpha male life? How do you guys deal with people like this? I guess what I'm saying is... I know I shouldn't be hanging with this guy, and I usually don't. But he does end up in the same social situations... But I have a very hard time being accepting and friendly to people I don't like. Is this incongruent with the golden rule? The whole do onto others thought. It's definitely a pride thing... But should I be putting it aside and be pleasant? Or should I hold my ground and be viewed as the asshole????

Thoughts worth discussing?

I remember this a while back. I ended up losing a few friends because of it. Only one I regret losing, because he was really a good friend, albeit an AFC. I got drunk, took the piss out of him a bit and slept with the girl he wanted to have a relationship with. I know, bastard thing to do! But he'd been trying and failing for 3 months, to the point where she had openly and honestly turned him down a few times. Plus I asked him on the night if I could go home with her (she sent me a txt saying 'Do you wanna fuck sometime?') and he said it was fine - wtf! Yet I feel shit about it + it lost me his friendship. But, shit happens ey. This is the perfect example of some of the people I can't stand being around, if there's a problem, tell me about it & it will get sorted. Don't pansy around an issue hoping it will solve itself.

Since my transformation 3 1/2 years ago, my friends (generally AFCs) have always seen me as the Alpha of the group. Which of course is a great DHV when I'm out on the town.

I would deal with your situation the same way you have to be honest, I just don't have the time for people like that in my life. You may feel like you're being a dick, but how else are you going to get rid of these clingy people holding you back/annoying you? Why do you think women put up these bitch shields? It's exactly the same principle.

AlmightyZane
01-14-2008, 10:17 AM
As we grow up and learn it is our responsibility as people to pass on our knowledge. Obviously do not waste your tongue on worthless ears but consider your friends...before you became a part of the society were you not also just like them?

Just do what most do and branch out. As the Girl scouts like to sing

"Make new friends but keep the old;one is silver while the others are gold"

Moral of my post...don't drop your friends just because they are "dead weight" instead embrace them for the loyalty and unjudgemental abilities they hold.

If you have a seriously big problem with their "AFC" tendencies then maybe you need to work more on yourself and then learn to lead by example not lecture...Judge not less the be judged.

Your friends are just a few steps behind, speed them up. Force them into new situations but in a nice way...invite them to play football, show them how much sports kick ass. Trust me bro when they see you becoming more "Alpha" and bringing in a new life/fresh perspective they too will want to join in. When they ask questions be ready...

Hope this helps,

-Zane

frsk
01-14-2008, 11:43 AM
Taking care of your social circle makes you "ALPHA".. in my opinion

your friend seems to have a weak personality .. so what ? a reason more to let him profit of you as his friend to some extend.. nobody will project his behaviour onto you.. if you are not like him.

sevant
01-14-2008, 12:29 PM
I found this on this forum !
Its unfortunate but many of us have to explore the entire spectrum of esteem to grasp this idea.

Unleash Yourself, Be Mindful, Be Free

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The human mind is a volatile machine. It is prone to extremes, prone to outbursts, prone to swimming outward into the depths - prone to getting lost.
The volatility of your mind is something you're just going to have to accept. I've personally experienced this volatility in a number of ways. Many of them have been awesome. I've soared very high indeed. I'd argue that I've been higher than most. I've also plunged downward, deeply, into a crushing and twisted place that I would not wish upon my worst enemy.
Slipping into darkness and despair, into fear and self-loathing is something that we have all done - those of us with any real emotional depth anyway. Some have slipped only for a moment. Others of us are just waking up from a lifetime spent in a world of negativity.
But slipping down is not the greatest pitfall. It is simply the most common. Most people seek to avoid the depths of despair, the banal and inglorious fate of the average frustrated chump.
This is a noble goal, and should be pursued. I go into depth about this elsewhere, in a piece called The Cartography Of Hell, which I will soon post here.
But for those who succeed, who free themselves from fear and isolation, there is another, greater danger.
It is, perhaps, the greatest weapon in Hell's arsenal. We know it by many names.
You can call it pride, but I've always found that this word is misleading. There are positive kinds of pride. The pride you feel for a child of yours who learns to walk. The pride you feel for a sibling who does well is uplifting. The pride I feel in my students when they excel is precious, and beautiful to me.
But it is nonetheless dangerous.
Restrained pride is fine. Unrestrained pride is fatal.
A good word for unrestrained pride is the Greek word 'hubris'. It denotes the overweening pride of the successful person, and often the successful man.
Hubris will destroy you. Resting your ego on weak and paltry rationalisations of your self-worth will bring you low, but it will not destroy you. Not all at once. It will destroy you if you never escape it, for if you never escape it you will never be free. But it is a slow process, to slip quietly and gradually into Hell. It takes courage and resolve to turn it around, to turn yourself around and walk the punishing and thankless road toward the light of day. But it can be done; we are fashioned by evolution to be able to fight fear, to fight it and win. It's simply a matter of pitting your resolve against the reason that tells you to give up, until that reason cracks under the pressure.
There is another danger, one far more devastating, which can obliterate the greatest of us in the space of a day. Hubris is how hell brings down the mighty.
I spent my life fighting my fears, fighting my doubts, climbing any mountain that seemed beyond anyone's ability to climb.
I climbed very high.
When your pride is based, not on weak rationalisations but on real and exceptional achievements, its power is magnified exponentially for every second it is left unchecked. It expands your ego from a weak and unconvincing facade into a world-encompassing arrogance that will make you believe yourself invincible.
You are not invincible. If you think you are, fight that feeling. It will destroy you.
It destroyed me.
I always find it somewhat amusing when others portray themselves as the world's worst AFC before they joined the community. Maybe you were worse than I have been. Maybe not. I'll explain how weak I was. You tell me who was worse.
I could not string a sentence together.
I could not smile.
I could not talk about myself without crying.
I could not bear to look at a beautiful woman.
I could not bear to look at a couple.
I could not bear to see a man and a woman kiss.
I could not bear to hear a woman speak of a man she was attracted to. It hurt too much to know that it would never, ever be me.
If I made eye contact with a woman of beauty, I could feel my heart shatter as if struck by a sledgehammer. It hurt so badly to know, to know as an absolute certainty, that there was nothing in me worth loving. That she would never, ever be with me, and worse, that she was right to walk away. To know that I was so absolutely and irretrievably broken that I could not add anything of happiness to her life. I had nothing to give. Nothing at all. Not a joke, nor a smile, nor even a false display of strength. My ego was, as every part of my personality was, a smoking ruin. Even my lies were transparently hollow.
I was a seething mass of trauma and nightmares, jagged edges and unholy torment.
And, melodramatic as it sounds, I was indeed that. Make no mistake about it. Even to this day it pains me to speak of such things, even with my very close friends.
I was without a girlfriend for two years. I was desperately lonely for that entire time.
I would have you avoid such a fate.
This is how.
The higher you climb, the deeper your roots must sink into the earth that grounds you.
Think of it like an oak tree. They are mighty trees, proud and tall. They spread their braches to the sky in a dense and complex network of branches and leaves, each cell of which is a work of art to shame Da Vinci.
Their roots are deep, and strong. They penetrate deep into the soil, deeper indeed than the tree is tall, and wider than the tree is broad.
If you seek to grow, strengthen your roots.
Fight your hubris. Rein in your pride.
You cannot turn it off. Don't try. You cannot help the feeling of acheivement you get when you have acheived. Why would you want to? It is one of the greatest and most powerful feelings that exists.
But like all things great and powerful, it can be hugely and critically destructive. Take care with it. Watch yourself for signs of hubris. The more successful you become, the closer an eye you must keep on yourself, and the more carefully you must listen to the cautions of those around you who love you and do not want to see you fall.
Otherwise, like Icarus, you will fall. And when you fall you will punch through all the upper levels of hell to the blackest pits it holds ready for the worst of us.
It's the difference between slipping into quicksand inch by inch, and smashing into a swamp at terminal velocity.
Do not revel in any emotion. Do not revel in pride. Do not ignore it. Do not indulge it. Leash it in. Harness it. Let it drive you further along the path you've already followed. Let it fill your self with real esteem. But do not cling to it. It will tear your soul apart. And besides - you have bigger fish to fry.
The rational mind rests on a shifting sea of emotions. It is the ship in which your self is sailing. It is your interface with the world of men, the world of women. The world of objects and things.
It is your interface with the world.
Your emotions are your most powerful tools. Leash them. Harness their power. Do not surrender your control over them. Develop an iron grip upon the adamantine reins you set upon them. Hold fast. Never lose your grip. Not for a second. Have them serve you. Make them your slaves. Become their master. Control yourself.
Covet your emotional stability. Cherish your sanity. It is worth it. You would miss it if ever it left you. Regaining it was, and remains, the hardest thing I have ever done and, God willing, will ever have to do.
Harnessed anger is the greatest weapon you have. Unrestrained anger will destroy you, drive away those that you love and let your enemies outflank and defeat you.
Harnessed love is powerful and beautiful. Unrestrained love is intense and scary, and will suffocate the feelings that others have toward you. Suffocation is fatal. Remember this.
Harnessed compassion is the thing that is highest and best about you. It will supercharge your humanity and make you a king among men. Unrestrained compassion will make a self-loathing martyr of you, and render you useless, even to those you seek to help.
Harnessed lust is seductive, powerful and sexy. It creates a vibe of sexual tension that will transcend the problems that hold you back with women. Unrestrained lust is sleazy, weak and repulsive. It is your worst enemy when dealing with the opposite sex.
Harnessed pride is what will drive you to greatness. Unrestrained pride will see you smashing down into the abyssal depths of a world of horror way beyond imagining. And all the terrors and degredation that world contains will cut all the deeper with the memory of that soaring glory fresh in your mind, mocking you for your foolish hope, your untempered pride, and your hubris.
Emotions are unutterably powerful. As such, they must be tightly controlled. They are the horses which pull your chariot into battle. Rein them in. Drive your very self forward in magnificence, and fight with valour, honour, nobility and discipline.
Leash your emotions.
Unleash yourself.
Ever Yours
Jekyll

Wade McCavoy
09-20-2012, 01:20 PM
You are what you are.

I started making more money then my friends, and it showed, but now some of them are coming around and its cool for me to show them the ropes of a better income and the lifestyle it brings.
I got rid of the people who became jealous, but my real friends, the true friends, i stick with them.

Dont burn your bridges my friend, you may need to fall back on those friends some day.

If this kid is truely a friend of yours, introduce him to the game, introduce him to what he could be achieving, and you may end up making a Wing that truely admires and appreciates you.

The dude obviously has a void in his soul somewheres, making him like that, making him jump at any chick who says Hi, ect. He just needs some help.

WATCH OUT WITH THIS ADVICE!

I completely agree with what he has said, but I had an old friend that is similar to your situation and he is ten times worse now.

Me and another guy from our group that got into the community together started feeling bad for him (he whines a lot about girls, is in love if there is eye contact while they talk, beta to the point you can call him at 3am and ask him to drop you off sonic [just an example]). So we decided to introduce him to the game and take him out with us to sarge and critique each other (which we do to one another whenever we see something) and help adjust his mind set. BAD IDEA!!!! he misunderstood the concept entirely and is just a a**hole. he thinks our critiques are "alphamale-ing him" to make him look weak (even if i pull him aside), his whining continues but has turned more toward b**ching, and worse of all he is mean and i mean MEAN! to girls now. I tried to fix my Wade Monster but i couldn't stand it anymore (after 2 years with everyone in my old group). I stopped hanging out with him completely i'll talk to him but I remain busy when he calls.

I don't know if this helps but the way you feel affects everything you do, if he puts you in a bad mood get away from him. If you can't and your afraid he might do what my friend did then better off keeping him as the awkward kid then a over entitled psycho that jumps down girls throats for talking. But i still agree with him don't burn it just disappear and if you can't avoid him just be short but sincere with your responses to him.