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Sheek
01-2008-08, 07:24 PM
There's a problem in this community and it seems to me that it's a lack of courage. Pick up theory reassures pussies that it's okay to be a pussy. Unfortunately, this doesn't hold up too well in the real world...

There's SO much bullshit going around on these forums. SO much of it. Many "theories" circulated by people who are socially inept, people who mental masturbate into thinking they're "smooth," because their posts appeal to a lot of people here, who, in turn, mental masturbate because they know enough pickup vocabulary to believe they understand the post.

What's up with advice like "THA DANCE FLOOR IZ A TRAP!!! DONT DANCE UNLESS UR AMAZINN!" ??

Clubs are made for dancing. It's why they play loud music. Unless you are awkward beyond awkward, nobody gives a shit what you dance like. No doubt someone's gonna come on here and challenge me about this, because apparently Style said the opposite. How about this. Stop acting like a robot.

If you're a good dancer, girls notice. If you're not, it's not as if you suddenly have gonorhhoea. Girls won't be like "oh wow, jesus, this guy seriously can't keep up with me. ugh, so unattractive." Chill the fuck out and enjoy yourself. Your dancing will get better with time. If you ARE awkward beyond awkward, why the fuck aren't you practicing?? You should be the shitty dancer having more fun than anyone else. Who knows, it might even show confidence, and more importantly, you might learn how to move to a beat.

Spending $60 at a club to spend 3 hours walking back and forth across the bar to find "targets" that let you scream into their ears for 10 minutes before they run off to dance is a pretty horrible way to spend your money. What the fuck happened to going out at night to have fun? Hitting a club to do your 50 "sarge" quota for the night is a pretty good way to have a shitty time. A shitty time you're paying to have.

Another thing. Pecking. Of course you shouldn't peck, I mean, it's not like you want her to hear what you're saying, do you? For crying out loud, people. It's fucking NORMAL to talk into to someone's ear if you think they won't hear you. Just like you bend forwards when you talk, she'll peck in when she talks. Being all smug and thinking "mm hmm hmm i'm not gonna lean in, i'm ALPHA!!" is a pretty loser thought process.

Instead of spending hours upon hours memorizing routines and methods and reading theory, just make yourself someone who can OFFER something to the type of girl you're after. Like I've said in my other thread, a guy she feels safe around, who's fun, and who's sexual will appeal to 95% of all women. Funny how confidence can make all 3 happen. Girls want to be chased. Just because Mystery created a method that caters to pussies that are afraid to be direct doesn't mean it's anything close to the "best" way of attracting women.

Now, how about that hobby thread? "Nothing's bad for pickup!! I have five-hour d&d games every other day and paint wizard models in between!! Doesn't hold ME back!" These same people then have trouble holding a conversation that doesn't involve stories they've made up or palm reading. Instead of escaping the real world by hiding in your basement and playing with elves, get the fuck outside and do some cool shit!

I'll sum this up. Your #1 priority in a club, in a bar, ANYWHERE should be to have fun and enjoy yourself. If this means getting absolutely smashed, go for it. If it means dancing, go for it. If it means talking to women, go for it. Forcing any three of these just makes you look try-hard and makes your night pretty lame. Going out isn't a video game where you need to count IOIs and go through levels and what not.

Green Hell
01-2008-08, 07:49 PM
Dance floors are traps because it's impossible to talk to a girl on a dance floor, thus making it a bad place to approach. Secondly, I don't know about you, but most AFC guys gather around the dancefloor and sort of watch the girls dance and take turns dancing with a girl between 10 other afc guys standing around the outside waiting for a woman to hopefully accept his invitation to rub his dick on her ass.

Dancing is GREAT for escalating kino AFTER you've met and opened a girl. Good for isolation as well. Dancing is also great, if you're unlike 98% of the other guys and enjoy dancing on your own. However, if you're trying to approach girls on the dancefloor, especially with the intent to dance with them, you're going to have a much harder time than normal.

Sheek
01-2008-08, 07:59 PM
Dance floors are traps because it's impossible to talk to a girl on a dance floor

If girls wanted to talk, they wouldn't be on the dance floor in the first place. They're there because they want to dance with guys. So... go dance with them? After dancing, you can go back to the bar with them and so on, where you're free to talk.

TheRogue
01-2008-08, 09:27 PM
If girls wanted to talk, they wouldn't be on the dance floor in the first place. They're there because they want to dance with guys. So... go dance with them? After dancing, you can go back to the bar with them and so on, where you're free to talk.

^So true!

Rogue

El_Ricardo
01-2008-08, 09:39 PM
i generally agree w/ your post but i think for a lot of ppl their goal is to get better w/ women so going out and following this and that is the best way to accomplish that goal. you are definitely right though that you will learn 10x more actually going out then sitting at home browsing the internet between d&d games.

one thing i definitely disagree w/ though is the part about dancing. if you are comfortable w/ dancing then dance away BUT if you are uncomfortable in dancing as a lot of ppl that are bad at dancing are, it is not a good idea to try. a bad dancer going for it and not caring is acceptable and somewhat endearing but some guy w/ horrible rhythm and no confidence going half way is bad news.

HenryHotspur
01-2008-08, 09:42 PM
If you enjoy dancing, dance. Making eye contact on the dance floor can lead to great, physical flirting. Then you have a physical connection when you get off the dance floor - you've opened, and built some attraction. (It's often a great time to move into qualification - "what do you have going for you other than the way you move?" etc.)

You can't "open" every HB by making eye contact while you're both dancing, but you can open a lot of them! The key is to REALLY be dancing and enjoying it, not just sidling over to make eye contact with her. The later can be creepy-guy behavior.

You're dancing and enjoying yourself, she's dancing and enjoying herself ... you glide together, glide apart, it's all good.

(Don't be in too much of a hurry to grind on her, either. Flirt with your eyes before you flirt with your body. Savor the anticipation.)

Sheek
01-2008-08, 10:49 PM
one thing i definitely disagree w/ though is the part about dancing. if you are comfortable w/ dancing then dance away BUT if you are uncomfortable in dancing as a lot of ppl that are bad at dancing are, it is not a good idea to try. a bad dancer going for it and not caring is acceptable and somewhat endearing but some guy w/ horrible rhythm and no confidence going half way is bad news.

When I decided I'd take up playing hockey (before I fell in love with MMA, ;)), I was the most uncomfortable and awkward skater ever. Forget crossovers & skating backwards, I'd trip over the blue lines. But, even though I sucked balls, I stuck with it -- you have to know how to skate to play hockey.

If you want to pull girls off the dance floor, you have to know how to dance. The reason most girls are on the dance floor is because many guys who lack confidence will hang out by the bar and act busy, afraid to dance. Lucky for you, by "know how to dance" I don't mean be a salsa instructor; I mean know the basics of grinding–with her facing away from you and facing towards you–as well as solo dancing.

It's also important to realize that girls are shitty dancers, too. They just get a lot of practice. :)

To grind when she's facing away, you either follow her hips side-to-side, or you do it 'dry hump' style, where you move your hips forwards when she moves her hips/ass backwards. Almost like standing doggy style, but with clothes on. The more sexual you two get, the harder (not faster) you push them forwards.

To grind when she's facing YOU, it's the doggy style thing all over again, but backwards. When she moves her hips forward, you move yours forward too. Your legs should be intertwined, where it looks like she's dancing on one of your legs. Again, if you get sexual, when you bring your hips forwards also lift the leg she's on a bit so it rubs against her when she moves up against it. Enough said.

Grinding should escalate with her facing away from you doing the side-to-side, then transition into the doggy style grinding by gently guiding her hips, and then transition into face-to-face grinding by gently turning her around.

Solo dancing is just having fun and fucking around. If you're in a trance club, this is about hands-in-the-air madness while some guidos twirl glowsticks on strings around you. If you're in a hip-hop/reggae club, it's about getting your bounce on & just mellowing out. If it speeds up to reggaeton/dancehall, just grab a girl. Whenever I put on some Sean Paul or something in a club, I notice guys dancing by themselves to it look a bit weird, so find a partner. And don't worry -- if Sean-A-Paul comes on, that style of music won't be on too long, or else management gets pissed at us for sucking people from the bar. Go figure.

To ask a girl to dance, you need to make a good impression right off the bat. This means being in shape, being dressed well, and carrying yourself well. Just stroll up, smiling, tap her on the side of the arm, and say something simple like "Hey, let's dance!" or "Hey, can I get a quick opinion?" (just kidding).

To escalate to making out, just tilt her chin up with a finger when you've been doing the face-to-face thing for a minute or so (if you're not already, gently spin her around) and go for it. If she doesn't want to or looks down/away, then just smile and keep dancing. Try again in 5 minutes or so.

I'm not a great dancer myself -- I can move to a beat and am adequate enough to keep my dancer girlfriend not bored, but I am by no stretch of imagination the "good dancer guy" you'll spot out at a club. I'm just, ehh. Decent. But I have fun fucking around, so why the hell not dance. ;)

619joe
01-2008-08, 10:52 PM
I agree with you man 100%.

So true about the dance floor part.Just go with the beat and thats all that is expected.Of coarse you can fine tune your skills if you really suck just as you said.

Pecking I agree with you also.I do not see how it harms you at all and when she eventually comes and pecks to it can get intimate and you can create some opportunities from that

Sheek
01-2008-08, 10:57 PM
Pecking I agree with you also.I do not see how it harms you at all and when she eventually comes and pecks to it can get intimate and you can create some opportunities from that

I think it's just the people going out and running this material are afraid of showing interest in the girls.

I'm quite against this; if I'm into a girl, I make sure she knows it. Girls are just so much more interesting when they don't have to be suspicious about your intentions or guessing at your secret agenda. ;)

El_Ricardo
01-2008-08, 11:04 PM
When I decided I'd take up playing hockey (before I fell in love with MMA, ;)), I was the most uncomfortable and awkward skater ever. Forget crossovers & skating backwards, I'd trip over the blue lines. But, even though I sucked balls, I stuck with it -- you have to know how to skate to play hockey.

If you want to pull girls off the dance floor, you have to know how to dance. The reason most girls are on the dance floor is because many guys who lack confidence will hang out by the bar and act busy, afraid to dance. Lucky for you, by "know how to dance" I don't mean be a salsa instructor; I mean know the basics of grinding–with her facing away from you and facing towards you–as well as solo dancing.

It's also important to realize that girls are shitty dancers, too. They just get a lot of practice. :)

To grind when she's facing away, you either follow her hips side-to-side, or you do it 'dry hump' style, where you move your hips forwards when she moves her hips/ass backwards. Almost like standing doggy style, but with clothes on. The more sexual you two get, the harder (not faster) you push them forwards.

To grind when she's facing YOU, it's the doggy style thing all over again, but backwards. When she moves her hips forward, you move yours forward too. Your legs should be intertwined, where it looks like she's dancing on one of your legs. Again, if you get sexual, when you bring your hips forwards also lift the leg she's on a bit so it rubs against her when she moves up against it. Enough said.

Grinding should escalate with her facing away from you doing the side-to-side, then transition into the doggy style grinding by gently guiding her hips, and then transition into face-to-face grinding by gently turning her around.

Solo dancing is just having fun and fucking around. If you're in a trance club, this is about hands-in-the-air madness while some guidos twirl glowsticks on strings around you. If you're in a hip-hop/reggae club, it's about getting your bounce on & just mellowing out. If it speeds up to reggaeton/dancehall, just grab a girl. Whenever I put on some Sean Paul or something in a club, I notice guys dancing by themselves to it look a bit weird, so find a partner. And don't worry -- if Sean-A-Paul comes on, that style of music won't be on too long, or else management gets pissed at us for sucking people from the bar. Go figure.

To ask a girl to dance, you need to make a good impression right off the bat. This means being in shape, being dressed well, and carrying yourself well. Just stroll up, smiling, tap her on the side of the arm, and say something simple like "Hey, let's dance!" or "Hey, can I get a quick opinion?" (just kidding).

To escalate to making out, just tilt her chin up with a finger when you've been doing the face-to-face thing for a minute or so (if you're not already, gently spin her around) and go for it. If she doesn't want to or looks down/away, then just smile and keep dancing. Try again in 5 minutes or so.

I'm not a great dancer myself -- I can move to a beat and am adequate enough to keep my dancer girlfriend not bored, but I am by no stretch of imagination the "good dancer guy" you'll spot out at a club. I'm just, ehh. Decent. But I have fun fucking around, so why the hell not dance. ;)

i agree, i'm just saying ppl should watch some rap videos or practice in the mirror a bit instead of blindly going out there and creeping everyone out. if they can't go out there and feel confident and have fun it's better not to go out there.

Sheek
01-2008-09, 09:50 AM
i agree, i'm just saying ppl should watch some rap videos or practice in the mirror a bit instead of blindly going out there and creeping everyone out. if they can't go out there and feel confident and have fun it's better not to go out there.

You're on point with practicing in front of a mirror, but that doesn't quite correllate into confidence on the dancefloor.

Some horrible dancers are very confident in themselves, and some pretty decent dancers are afraid to boogey.

=)

LiftinW8s
01-2008-09, 10:32 AM
Dancing is fucking simple. Thats all you have to know is how to follow a beat. That alone makes you average IMO. Every girl ive ever danced with has complimented on how well I can follow a beat. Number 1 complaint girls told me was most guys cant follow a beat with their body. I play the drums so music beats come naturally to me but if you just stop and listen to most songs in a club, the beats are all VERY similar. If she distances herself from you but still maintaining eye contact and dancing with you, just pickup her hand, hold it and twirl her. Then you can pull them right back in against you. The only reason the dance floor is a trap is because its way to damn hard to run game on a girl whos dancing. Also if your standing there drooling over girls shakin their ass, it makes you like every other AFC in the place.

Latinluva
01-2008-09, 12:02 PM
I have found out that Dance Floors are truely a trap in the sense that its much better to aproach women on the tables next to yours, or hallways, and the Dance Floor being a central location exposes any crash and burn you might come into.

The music is loud so women can't hear you and lose the interest, for some reasons bitch shields are strong there.

I only dance in the dance floor when women give me hints or eye contact, or I just invite girls to the dancefloor.

And I consider myself a good dancer and proficient in salsa moves.

Sheek
01-2008-09, 12:16 PM
I have found out that Dance Floors are truely a trap in the sense that its much better to aproach women on the tables next to yours, or hallways, and the Dance Floor being a central location exposes any crash and burn you might come into.

Of course it's easier to talk to girls at tables and such, but if you're intrigued by someone dancing, then there shouldn't be any reason for you not to. :)


The music is loud so women can't hear you and lose the interest, for some reasons bitch shields are strong there.

You shouldn't be trying to keep a girl's interest on the dance floor by talking to her. You should be keeping her interest by having her enjoy herself, as an extension of you enjoying yourself.


And I consider myself a good dancer and proficient in salsa moves.

Good! You should be dancing more often then. :D

_Hollywood_
01-2008-09, 12:25 PM
There's a problem in this community and it seems to me that it's a lack of courage. Pick up theory reassures pussies that it's okay to be a pussy. Unfortunately, this doesn't hold up too well in the real world...

There's SO much bullshit going around on these forums. SO much of it. Many "theories" circulated by people who are socially inept, people who mental masturbate into thinking they're "smooth," because their posts appeal to a lot of people here, who, in turn, mental masturbate because they know enough pickup vocabulary to believe they understand the post.

What's up with advice like "THA DANCE FLOOR IZ A TRAP!!! DONT DANCE UNLESS UR AMAZINN!" ??

Clubs are made for dancing. It's why they play loud music. Unless you are awkward beyond awkward, nobody gives a shit what you dance like. No doubt someone's gonna come on here and challenge me about this, because apparently Style said the opposite. How about this. Stop acting like a robot.

If you're a good dancer, girls notice. If you're not, it's not as if you suddenly have gonorhhoea. Girls won't be like "oh wow, jesus, this guy seriously can't keep up with me. ugh, so unattractive." Chill the fuck out and enjoy yourself. Your dancing will get better with time. If you ARE awkward beyond awkward, why the fuck aren't you practicing?? You should be the shitty dancer having more fun than anyone else. Who knows, it might even show confidence, and more importantly, you might learn how to move to a beat.

Spending $60 at a club to spend 3 hours walking back and forth across the bar to find "targets" that let you scream into their ears for 10 minutes before they run off to dance is a pretty horrible way to spend your money. What the fuck happened to going out at night to have fun? Hitting a club to do your 50 "sarge" quota for the night is a pretty good way to have a shitty time. A shitty time you're paying to have.

Another thing. Pecking. Of course you shouldn't peck, I mean, it's not like you want her to hear what you're saying, do you? For crying out loud, people. It's fucking NORMAL to talk into to someone's ear if you think they won't hear you. Just like you bend forwards when you talk, she'll peck in when she talks. Being all smug and thinking "mm hmm hmm i'm not gonna lean in, i'm ALPHA!!" is a pretty loser thought process.

Instead of spending hours upon hours memorizing routines and methods and reading theory, just make yourself someone who can OFFER something to the type of girl you're after. Like I've said in my other thread, a guy she feels safe around, who's fun, and who's sexual will appeal to 95% of all women. Funny how confidence can make all 3 happen. Girls want to be chased. Just because Mystery created a method that caters to pussies that are afraid to be direct doesn't mean it's anything close to the "best" way of attracting women.

Now, how about that hobby thread? "Nothing's bad for pickup!! I have five-hour d&d games every other day and paint wizard models in between!! Doesn't hold ME back!" These same people then have trouble holding a conversation that doesn't involve stories they've made up or palm reading. Instead of escaping the real world by hiding in your basement and playing with elves, get the fuck outside and do some cool shit!

I'll sum this up. Your #1 priority in a club, in a bar, ANYWHERE should be to have fun and enjoy yourself. If this means getting absolutely smashed, go for it. If it means dancing, go for it. If it means talking to women, go for it. Forcing any three of these just makes you look try-hard and makes your night pretty lame. Going out isn't a video game where you need to count IOIs and go through levels and what not.



I'm gonna be honest and say I haven't read any responses in this thread (yet). However, I read this entire post and ANYONE who disagrees with ANYTHING written here is WRONG.

My hat goes off to Sheek, one of the BEST, most sensible things I've ever seen written on this forum. Everything here is 100% spot on accurate, no exceptions.

Also let me just add - the VAST majority of club hookups I get (usually once or twice a week, maybe more), happen on the dancefloor. Follow what Sheek says and you guys can have the same success...it's really not that hard, and barely involves talking.

Sheek
01-2008-09, 12:48 PM
Thanks for the props Hollywood! Judging from your posts and the pictures you've uploaded, I know you know what I mean. :cool:

Doku
01-2008-09, 12:51 PM
Not to burst your bubble, but this community doesn't exist to have fun. It exists to help guys get girls. That's why we found this place. Granted, we should find a way to MAKE it fun, I view getting women as a skill that I need to practice. If I'm going out on a sarging night, I WILL try to have a good time, but I'll still try to open x number of sets. Usually me and my friends have made a bet out of it, so that makes it a competition and fun in itself. But on "off' nights, yeah, I agree with you. I'm there to have fun and I'm not going to pressure myself into talking with a girl at the bar when I could be dancing and having fun.
But much like practicing guitar or working out, I'll feel guilty if I don't do x number of scale runs, x number of reps, or open x number of sets.

p.s. Even while practicing game, I get great pleasure from field testing different routines. If it's a new one that I'm not congruent with, it's like a timer going off in my head that says "I'm going to fuck up my chances of sleeping with this girl in 3....2....1.... NOW!"
Always get a kick out of it.

_Hollywood_
01-2008-09, 12:56 PM
Not to burst your bubble, but this community doesn't exist to have fun. It exists to help guys get girls. That's why we found this place. Granted, we should find a way to MAKE it fun, I view getting women as a skill that I need to practice. If I'm going out on a sarging night, I WILL try to have a good time, but I'll still try to open x number of sets. Usually me and my friends have made a bet out of it, so that makes it a competition and fun in itself. But on "off' nights, yeah, I agree with you. I'm there to have fun and I'm not going to pressure myself into talking with a girl at the bar when I could be dancing and having fun.
But much like practicing guitar or working out, I'll feel guilty if I don't do x number of scale runs, x number of reps, or open x number of sets.

p.s. Even while practicing game, I get great pleasure from field testing different routines. If it's a new one that I'm not congruent with, it's like a timer going off in my head that says "I'm going to fuck up my chances of sleeping with this girl in 3....2....1.... NOW!"
Always get a kick out of it.

No offense, but this is bullshit.

If you read what Sheek and I say in our posts, it's all focused on improving your overall life and the rest will come AFTER. Why...whyyyy would you NOT want to have fun when you go out? Are you really gonna go out and blow all that time and money on "opening sets" ? What happens if you get shut down all night, are you gonna go home and calculate where you went wrong and what negs and routines to use next time? WHY?! To get laid once? Sweeeeet...

If you concentrate on going out with FRIENDS and having FUN, not only will you have a more fulfilling life (trust me, in a little less than 3 years I've hooked up with over 70 girls, and you know what...I never went looking for it. It gets kinda boring after awhile, it's the same positions and tricks with the a different face in front of you, really no big deal). When you find a MEANING to everything you're doing, that's when you will really be happy. Happyness breeds confidence which breeds everything Sheek promotes in this thread.

Did you ever think that you can go out and girls will ...*gasp*...come to YOU? Maybe you don't have to dedicate an entire night of your life to "sarging".

I don't want to steal this thread from Sheek, but I 110% back up everything he says.

Sheek
01-2008-09, 01:23 PM
Not to burst your bubble, but this community doesn't exist to have fun.

Sorry to burst your own bubble, but you are likely suffering from some sort of depression and should seek help.


It exists to help guys get girls. That's why we found this place. Granted, we should find a way to MAKE it fun, I view getting women as a skill that I need to practice. If I'm going out on a sarging night, I WILL try to have a good time, but I'll still try to open x number of sets.

The moment you make women "practice," and make talking to them something twisted to your own benefit, is also the moment when you cease to project any any value whatsoever, and you quickly fall into the frame of a value-taker, who's there to leech from the girls in the club.

Women don't want to be target practice. If you aren't genuinely interested in them for a good enough reason, they will not be interested in you. Fortunately, you cannot fake genuine interest, which keeps girls from hooking up with guys who use them as tools for their own growth.

Doing shit like this puts you a step below even the lowiest of AFCs, because at least they are actually interested in the girls they approach and talk to.

Instead of trying to "burst my bubble," you should first look at bursting your own. ;)

Edit: Besides, my bubble has a quantum (level 2, of course) plasma forcefield around it, and I have boots of shield +4.

Roderick Rage
01-2008-09, 01:43 PM
I really enjoyed what Sheek said. If you read my signature you'll see I'm in a agreeance.

HenryHotspur
01-2008-09, 02:15 PM
Not to burst your bubble, but this community doesn't exist to have fun. It exists to help guys get girls. That's why we found this place. Granted, we should find a way to MAKE it fun, I view getting women as a skill that I need to practice.

The point you're missing is that by making your life more fun, you will make getting girls easier.

Yes, getting girls is fun. But having fun makes getting girls easier. One of the best ways to attract women is to be genuinely doing something that you love - your enthusiasm will be infectious, and women will want to share it with you.


i'm just saying ppl should watch some rap videos or practice in the mirror a bit instead of blindly going out there and creeping everyone out.

On the subject of practicing in front of a mirror, well, I have a different take:

If what you find fun is executing music-video-ready dance moves, then, by all means, have at it! Practice away and get good, because if the appeal is going to be in how good a dancer you are, then you have to be a really good dancer.

What makes more sense, in my opinion, is to let the appeal be your individuality and how much fun you're having. This doesn't mean spaz out ... it means enjoy yourself, and dance in a way that you find fun. Trying to do moves you can barely pull off is can make you self-conscious and put you in the wrong mindframe. It's not a dance competition, it's a lifestyle competition, and you win by having the energy that all the women want to share.

(I'm not saying that dancing like a pro is a bad thing - hey, if you've got that, use it! But if you don't, realize that it doesn't matter!)

If you're so physically clumsy that you can't keep to the beat, then some practice, getting in better shape or maybe a ballroom dance class will help (also - a great place to meet girls!) - but really everybody knows how to dance ... you just have to learn to get your head out of the way.

Sheek
01-2008-09, 02:30 PM
I really enjoyed what Sheek said.

Thanks! :D


If you read my signature you'll see I'm in a agreeance.

This is where I want to make a small note. I obviously have different views on religion than you as quite a profound athiest (although I've spent a lot of time analyzing and reading about many types of religion for curiosity's sake), but my view on women differs a bit too.

You should "pump" women up all you can (this goes double if they're inflatable), because the more you enjoy them, the more you'll enjoy yourself in their presence. If you think they're imperfect, look for things to "neg," them about, and so on, you're not only reducing their self esteem, which isn't cool, but you're also reducing how much you like and appreciate them.

=)

Heartwork
01-2008-09, 03:40 PM
I have skimmed this thread as there seems to be a shift in discussion

But seriously if you are not having fun and not having success after repeated times...why are you still doing it?

Persisting through shit only gets you deeper into the shit..not to the other side

Stop going out to "sarge" and start going out to have fun.

Pick up is fun and easy, however people feel that pick up has to be a super complex and extreamly structured. Tust me, if you forget one of your favorite qualifying questions there is still a good chance she will suck your dick, dont let thinking cause you did something wrong the whole set is fucked up.

Gennerally, with proper knowladge, you cannot pick up wrong, it only stops working when you doubt what you say


Pick up is fun when you are in set if you are there to have a good time, but if you are there to sarge you feel alkward when you are not talking to people and when you are you are over concerned with your value

My game got to where it is by liking pick up, when I started getting good is when I stopped forcing my self to pick up but insted started having fun and not giving a shit.

LoveCharm
01-2008-09, 04:39 PM
When i go out i go out to sarge but as said before - i go out to have fun!! And for me, personally, sarging is fucking fun. I love talking to women. I enjoy their company. You should be as confortable as you can because if you're not then you clearly aren't enjoying yourself, and thats what all this shit is about... ENJOYING yourself. However, there are these fundamentals within this method that we should follow. WHY? Because it works. We've all got to remember that this is SOCIAL DYNAMICS. I'm not against being 'natural' and going out there and fucking all this material bollocks off and i'm definately not against following all of these routines word for word. You've got to find your own equalibrium. And when you find one that is successful, stick with it. And enjoy yourself.

I use these methods for one thing. Enhancing myself. NOT CHANGING MYSELF FULLY, JUST MAKING MYSELF THAT LITTLE BIT BETTER. A funny way of describing it is - i am the cake... women are only the icing.

True Pimp
01-2008-09, 06:54 PM
If girls wanted to talk, they wouldn't be on the dance floor in the first place. They're there because they want to dance with guys. So... go dance with them? After dancing, you can go back to the bar with them and so on, where you're free to talk.

This man speaks the truth :cool:

True Pimp
01-2008-09, 06:58 PM
Sorry to burst your own bubble, but you are likely suffering from some sort of depression and should seek help.



The moment you make women "practice," and make talking to them something twisted to your own benefit, is also the moment when you cease to project any any value whatsoever, and you quickly fall into the frame of a value-taker, who's there to leech from the girls in the club.

Women don't want to be target practice. If you aren't genuinely interested in them for a good enough reason, they will not be interested in you. Fortunately, you cannot fake genuine interest, which keeps girls from hooking up with guys who use them as tools for their own growth.

Doing shit like this puts you a step below even the lowiest of AFCs, because at least they are actually interested in the girls they approach and talk to.

Instead of trying to "burst my bubble," you should first look at bursting your own. ;)

Edit: Besides, my bubble has a quantum (level 2, of course) plasma forcefield around it, and I have boots of shield +4.

Ahahahaha :D

Yeah, having goals of how many people you want to meet and interact with per night is one of the worst ideas a person can have. You can't think in terms of numbers, or efficiency with people. You think efficiency with things. With people, you seek to be effective.

DanJer
01-2008-09, 07:29 PM
I've read the all the thread.

This is a quality post and something that Intermediate and above guys should take notice of...

Both Sheek and Hollywood IMO(based on their posts) have some quality game and seem generally cool guys to chill out with.

But...

This Forum is about the M3 model and how to approach and talk to women. Other type of game gets discussed here but only quietly. To call this board 'Primary school' would de-value it. But in essence it's where guys come to learn the basics. As they grow then they'll naturally branch out to see what else is around before deciding on the 'style' of game they like...

So rather than debate the relevance of this post.

Read it.

If it strikes a chord with you and makes something click. Then cool.

If you object to it. Then cool. But arguing with someone over what they believe in is tough work. Is it worth it?

Danjer.

2ManyWomen
01-2008-09, 07:49 PM
Going out to have fun VS. Going out to sarge, or can they be the same?

When your game is tight and you're out just to have fun then you WILL be approached by women naturally. They'll be in proximity to you or others will introduce you, whatever.

From there you can sarge (or run material, begin the pickup or PUA stuff, flirt, whatever). Hollywood and Sheek have found this out and it's MONEY. You will certainly get laid.

I think that what they are saying is that you need to get to a place where this can happen for you instead of going out with the intention to "sarge" or with the intention of picking up women.

Going out with the intention of picking up women is tough. Your mindset is wrong. However, it CAN teach you some elements of social interaction that you need to learn.

Doku
01-2008-09, 08:37 PM
I had a long-winded response but my browser crashed :( I'll try and make it shorter this time.

What you're saying "Go out and have fun and the chicks will come" Is the same as saying "Be confident and be yourself." It's good advice, but we don't know what to do to follow that advice. We don't have the social tools to just have a good time when we go out. That is why we found this community. It probably seems so easy to you because you're experienced or you're a natural, or both, but the guys that are starting at PU (and hence, on this forum) are the guys who would normally sit around a table not knowing what to do or talk about.


Going out with the intention of picking up women is tough. Your mindset is wrong. However, it CAN teach you some elements of social interaction that you need to learn.

This is exactly right. We need to separate learning this stuff from the nights that we just want to be ourself. When I go out sarging, I set my ego and my own personality aside. That way I don't feel sleazy when I say the same thing to 20 different girls to get their number, and I don't feel retarded when I get blown out. It also reduces AA, because I don't feel like I'm losing anything if I blow it.

BUT- On nights when I'm having fun and being myself, hell fucking yeah I feel like an idiot when even 2 girls come up to me over the night and I manage to fuck it up with both of them. It's a reminder that I'm still not as good with women as I'd like to be, and gives me the boost to say "Alright, I really need to get better. I need to practice more"

This wasn't as short as I had hoped.
Anyways, in summary- we don't have the skills to get chicks when we go out for fun. That's why we practice. I thought that just going out more would make me better with chicks (before I read MM) but all it was doing was costing me hundreds in bar tabs, and all the times I went out I never even got so much as a number. After structured practice, I'm noticeably better with women (granted, not as good as I'd like), and I have more fun on my "off" nights. My personal goal is to reach the point that you're at right now- not worrying about chicks and still having them come to me. But I'm not there yet. That's why on 3 nights a week I'm a social robot. It's all just to learn because I'm not where I want to be yet.

Vulture629
01-2008-09, 08:43 PM
but this community doesn't exist to have fun

Ya, and I'm not bowling in my PBA experience sport league to not have fun either. Thats a bunch of shit coming out of an elephant trunk.

Whoever posted this is on work drugs. Not everything is done cuz you "have to." If you do something cuz you WANT TO, like me following pickup instead of AFCism cuz I wanna bang sorority girls and strippers like I always WANTED or joining a really difficult bowling league cuz I may WANT to go pro someday, its better have fun in order to make it, oh, I don't know...enjoyable? To even THINK sarging = work, let alone post it on a sarging message board just screams bitterness (and probably resentment and jealousy for those who succeed and make it "look easy").

Sarging is fun as hell. I love making fun of females more than ever now, and building GOOD rapport (not just "what classes are you taking"), and banging chicks. Cuz I enjoy myself when I do it. And no matter how many times I get shot down or something just kind of fizzles out I at least had fun, and now I'm gonna have more fun.

Going out with the intention of picking up women is tough. Your mindset is wrong.
Well only half wrong IMO. For example in league I want to get lots of strikes but have fun at the same time. Its the same with sarging...I wanna get the #closes (during the day) and make out/Full closes during the night but I gotta have fun too. So combining one intent with the other is the way to go.

Life, sarging, sports = work if we make it that way. Only thing thats work to me involves Note taking or clocking in/out. Job+school = work. we have to do it.

DSLupus
01-2008-10, 11:48 AM
Well, I think this discussion has reached a point that we need somebody to play devil's advocate. And since I enjoy that role...


There's a problem in this community and it seems to me that it's a lack of courage.

I'd say it's more that everybody seems to think they're the next Mystery. Very little advice given anymore has been field-tested.


Pick up theory reassures pussies that it's okay to be a pussy.

It does? Are we reading the same books?


What's up with advice like "THA DANCE FLOOR IZ A TRAP!!! DONT DANCE UNLESS UR AMAZINN!" ??

What that generally means is that you shouldn't count on the dance floor to pick up girls. People on the dance floor dance with any willing person. Girls know full well that grinding with you on the dance floor does not mean that she has any obligation to talk to you afterword. Simply put, it doesn't count.

Dancing can be great. But there are caveats.


If you ARE awkward beyond awkward, why the fuck aren't you practicing?? You should be the shitty dancer having more fun than anyone else. Who knows, it might even show confidence, and more importantly, you might learn how to move to a beat.

There is a point where it stops being dancing and starts being, "Hey, look at me!!" You don't have to be a great dancer, but at the same time you want to avoid looking like a demented ferret on cocaine.


Another thing. Pecking. Of course you shouldn't peck, I mean, it's not like you want her to hear what you're saying, do you? For crying out loud, people. It's fucking NORMAL to talk into to someone's ear if you think they won't hear you. Just like you bend forwards when you talk, she'll peck in when she talks. Being all smug and thinking "mm hmm hmm i'm not gonna lean in, i'm ALPHA!!" is a pretty loser thought process.

Most of us are smart enough not to take every rule literally and absolutely.


Just because Mystery created a method that caters to pussies that are afraid to be direct doesn't mean it's anything close to the "best" way of attracting women.

Here we go, all downhill from here. I got 50 bucks that says you never actually read Mystery Method.

For the most part, every guy I've seen who gives the absolute best advice does not talk shit on the other methods. They take what works for them, advocate that, and disregard that which does not work. For the most part, the only thing they actively discourage is the Speed Seduction concept of using other people's poetry and passing it off as your own.


Now, how about that hobby thread? "Nothing's bad for pickup!! I have five-hour d&d games every other day and paint wizard models in between!! Doesn't hold ME back!" These same people then have trouble holding a conversation that doesn't involve stories they've made up or palm reading. Instead of escaping the real world by hiding in your basement and playing with elves, get the fuck outside and do some cool shit!

That would be my thread, and myself and others who posted there have field-tested and can back up our statements.

Dude, considering you know me as nothing more than text on a computer screen, I am laughing my ass off at you and your stereotyping.

Let me make it clear to you. You know only a small fraction of my interests, you've never had a conversation with me, you don't know my taste in women, you don't know my values, you don't even know my name. Yet you try to pigeonhole me and the people on my side in that thread into a narrow stereotype seldom seen outside of Hollywood. Who's the asshole?

Sheek
01-2008-10, 12:44 PM
Well, I think this discussion has reached a point that we need somebody to play devil's advocate. And since I enjoy that role...

I'm ready to play Sheek's advocate. :D


I'd say it's more that everybody seems to think they're the next Mystery. Very little advice given anymore has been field-tested.

If people thought they were the next Mystery, they would be confident in their material and be successful. I'm noticing the opposite, people who worship the authors of these pickup manuals and look for them for advice on even the most specific, different-for-each-person topics in their lives.


It does? Are we reading the same books?

Wait, we ARE talking about women's empowerment books, right?? It's OKAY for pussies to be pussies! Dicks are dicks! :p

Jokes aside, yes, we are reading the same books. The biggest issue with women who are in the community is the anxiety they face when it comes to approaching women. They are afraid to be rejected, straight up. Mystery comes along and makes rejection obsolete by having guys test to see if she is interested first, which means that the moment he shows interest, she'll already be into him and won't shoot him down. Unfortunately, a side effect of "indirect theory" is having a persona completely devoid of sexuality–you wouldn't want to show sexual interest, would you?–which is a big step (or two) backwards.


What that generally means is that you shouldn't count on the dance floor to pick up girls.

I know a lot of people who do this that are quite successful. They, however, don't hold back from making out with her, dancing sexually, and being straight up about wanting to go home with her.


People on the dance floor dance with any willing person.

I beg to differ.


Girls know full well that grinding with you on the dance floor does not mean that she has any obligation to talk to you afterword. Simply put, it doesn't count.

Just because she has no obligation to talk to you afterwards does not mean it doesn't count. If you see her at the bar afterwards it's much easier to wave her back over to the dance floor or to go over and talk to her, because you're not total strangers anymore.


There is a point where it stops being dancing and starts being, "Hey, look at me!!" You don't have to be a great dancer, but at the same time you want to avoid looking like a demented ferret on cocaine.

I actually have a tattoo of a ferret on cocaine on my inner thigh, so I'd appreciate it if you kept the insults concerning our fluffy and cute friends to yourself. ;)

As for the "Hey, look at me!!" vibe, this only comes across if that's where you're coming from in the first place. If you're doing crazy shit because YOU'RE having fun, nobody assumes you're trying to impress people.


Most of us are smart enough not to take every rule literally and absolutely.

I'm not insulting anyone's intelligence, because taking these rules literally and absolutely is a matter of social intelligence. And most people who start off here aren't too well-versed in approaching women, so they take many things literally. Just read the field reports.

I remember reading a post by someone regarding posture, and it was an essay-long analysis on his "boxer" posture he'd put on when clubbing, which included gems like "I keep my chin tucked down slightly, hands up halfway, and my legs spread out to make myself look like I can defend myself." Some people take some things quite literally and read into advice many levels too deep.



Here we go, all downhill from here. I got 50 bucks that says you never actually read Mystery Method.

I'm willing to bet my own $50 (that apparently I've gotten from you) that I've read, watched, and listened to three times as much material as you have. For all the good it's done me. =)

I'll give examples of MM material. I've read the VAH. It's like the Mystery Method, but longer. I've watched the DVDs, listened to the interviews (Savoy sent me one free–thanks!, and I liked it so I made a buddy buy more), read Mystery's posts on ASF, taken a look at the Magic Bullets, watched his approach movies on YouTube, seen episodes of his show on VH1, and so on. ;)


For the most part, every guy I've seen who gives the absolute best advice does not talk shit on the other methods. They take what works for them, advocate that, and disregard that which does not work.

My best advice is that some of these "methods" are garbage, and that any improvement a "PUA" notices does not come from the method itself, it comes from actually going out. I don't claim that my advice is any good, but apparently people enjoy reading it.


That would be my thread, and myself and others who posted there have field-tested and can back up our statements.

Not one of the guys I know who are really successful with women play dungeons and dragons, play WoW, collect stamps, or have any hobby as seclusive.

Everyone I know who does these uses them as a means to escape reality. One of my housemates, for example, has a girlfriend on the other side of the US. To pass the time and cure boredom, he plays WoW almost nonstop. When he's with her, though, he doesn't spend hours a day stealing artifacts from magical caves. He hangs out with her and his friends back home and doesn't even touch the game. I see nothing wrong with this. He escapes from his boring life at college to pass the time with random guys online also escaping their lives, but once he goes back, he stops playing.

Saying you can do both at the same time, spend hours running away from the real world and still be successful with women is almost paradoxial. Like anything on this forum, this is my own observation, and you're free to disagree.


Dude, considering you know me as nothing more than text on a computer screen, I am laughing my ass off at you and your stereotyping.

Laughing at your screen because someone is "stereotyping" you online is not helping your plea for sanity.


Let me make it clear to you. You know only a small fraction of my interests, you've never had a conversation with me, you don't know my taste in women, you don't know my values, you don't even know my name. Yet you try to pigeonhole me and the people on my side in that thread into a narrow stereotype seldom seen outside of Hollywood. Who's the asshole?

I don't know where you brought in pidgeons and Hollywood from. I'm just commenting on the fact that weird hobbies that suck you away from a social life aren't conduisive to meeting and attracting women.

Unless you meet another level 70 dwarf lord on WoW, or have a cute elf on your D&D squad. Then they might be into that stuff.

Just saying.

DSLupus
01-2008-10, 01:28 PM
If people thought they were the next Mystery, they would be confident in their material and be successful. I'm noticing the opposite, people who worship the authors of these pickup manuals and look for them for advice on even the most specific, different-for-each-person topics in their lives.

The trend I'm noticing is people coming up with their own theories which they believe are reovlutionary and never field-testing any of it.


Jokes aside, yes, we are reading the same books. The biggest issue with women who are in the community is the anxiety they face when it comes to approaching women. They are afraid to be rejected, straight up. Mystery comes along and makes rejection obsolete by having guys test to see if she is interested first, which means that the moment he shows interest, she'll already be into him and won't shoot him down. Unfortunately, a side effect of "indirect theory" is having a persona completely devoid of sexuality–you wouldn't want to show sexual interest, would you?–which is a big step (or two) backwards.

The M3 model has actually been recognized by a lot of biologists as an accurate interpretation of the courtship process.

That aside, Mystery is not advocating being devoid of sexuality. I think David D said it best. "I want you, but I don't need you." You don't hit on her in the conventional sense because you don't need her.


I know a lot of people who do this that are quite successful. They, however, don't hold back from making out with her, dancing sexually, and being straight up about wanting to go home with her.

I won't deny that for some people it works. More power to them.


Just because she has no obligation to talk to you afterwards does not mean it doesn't count. If you see her at the bar afterwards it's much easier to wave her back over to the dance floor or to go over and talk to her, because you're not total strangers anymore.

The problem is that a lot of guys seem to think that because a girl danced with him on the dance floor, that means he's in. It doesn't. I've talked to a lot of people who frequent the bar and club scene and are very successful there. The consesus is that the dance floor is a trap in that it doesn't give you anything more than an opener.


As for the "Hey, look at me!!" vibe, this only comes across if that's where you're coming from in the first place. If you're doing crazy shit because YOU'RE having fun, nobody assumes you're trying to impress people.

In some cases, yes. But again, there are caveats. To put it simply, there is a point where sexy becomes annoying.


I'm not insulting anyone's intelligence, because taking these rules literally and absolutely is a matter of social intelligence. And most people who start off here aren't too well-versed in approaching women, so they take many things literally. Just read the field reports.

I remember reading a post by someone regarding posture, and it was an essay-long analysis on his "boxer" posture he'd put on when clubbing, which included gems like "I keep my chin tucked down slightly, hands up halfway, and my legs spread out to make myself look like I can defend myself." Some people take some things quite literally and read into advice many levels too deep.

Beginners are going to do that. It's part of the learning process. I believe making mistakes through trial and error to be essential to learning and improving.

I'm a professional magician, and when I first started learning, I took everything way too seriously and the rules too rigidly... and my performances sucked balls. It wasn't until I started talking to other magicians, watching my taped performances, and internalizing concepts that I began to get better. Busking on the streets was the ultimate crucible that burned away everything that was holding me back and made me a professional.

That's why I tell people to balance theory with execution.


I'll give examples of MM material. I've read the VAH. It's like the Mystery Method, but longer. I've watched the DVDs, listened to the interviews (Savoy sent me one free–thanks!, and I liked it so I made a buddy buy more), read Mystery's posts on ASF, taken a look at the Magic Bullets, watched his approach movies on YouTube, seen episodes of his show on VH1, and so on. ;)

I'm totally sincere when I say that this is one of those times I'm happy to be wrong.


My best advice is that some of these "methods" are garbage, and that any improvement a "PUA" notices does not come from the method itself, it comes from actually going out. I don't claim that my advice is any good, but apparently people enjoy reading it.

My personal belief is that there are lessons to be learned even from the worst teachers, even if it's indirectly. I don't consider any school of thought to be garbage, only facets of it which are useless to me personally.


Not one of the guys I know who are really successful with women play dungeons and dragons, play WoW, collect stamps, or have any hobby as seclusive.

And not one of the guys I know who are successful with women are great dancers or high school sports stars, or local celebrities, or any other number of the typical archetypes.


Saying you can do both at the same time, spend hours running away from the real world and still be successful with women is almost paradoxial. Like anything on this forum, this is my own observation, and you're free to disagree.

You're actually agreeing with a point I and others tried to make in the thread, which was for the most part ignored.

There's a stark difference between a hobby and an obsession.


Laughing at your screen because someone is "stereotyping" you online is not helping your plea for sanity.

I never claimed to be sane in the first place. Slavs are good at four things: grouching, drinking, moping, and taking shitty jobs from Irish people. We're a depressing, unstable lot, but damn it we're good at what we do.


I don't know where you brought in pidgeons and Hollywood from. I'm just commenting on the fact that weird hobbies that suck you away from a social life aren't conduisive to meeting and attracting women.

Again, passion versus obsession. You seemed to be painting all people with geeky hobbies with the same brush.


Unless you meet another level 70 dwarf lord on WoW, or have a cute elf on your D&D squad. Then they might be into that stuff.

Women don't have to be into everything I do.

A friend of mine is a musician who's very into progressive rock and metal. He had a girlfriend at one point who was a cheerleader. She didn't like his music. How did they deal with it? She'd tease him about it, they'd banter for a few minutes, then have sex.

Sheek
01-2008-10, 01:45 PM
The M3 model has actually been recognized by a lot of biologists as an accurate interpretation of the courtship process.

By which biologists? I don't think this is true, although I've heard this "fact" tossed around. The "courtship" process almost always consists of males doing something (fighting one another, fanning colorful feathers, making loud sounds, and so on) to impress a female, which then chooses the "best" mate from the bunch.

If anything, the M3 model where women must dazzle you first is the opposite of traditional and instinctive "courtship."

I never claimed to be sane in the first place. Slavs are good at four things: grouching, drinking, moping, and taking shitty jobs from Irish people. We're a depressing, unstable lot, but damn it we're good at what we do.

I'm Eastern European too. Agreed.

We both have a habit of arguing extremes to make a point. Which is why this will go back-and-forth forever.

I'll just say that the truth is somewhere in the middle.


...But closer to my side. :p

DSLupus
01-2008-10, 01:59 PM
We both have a habit of arguing extremes to make a point. Which is why this will go back-and-forth forever.

If you'd like to let this conversation go and let someone else get a word in, I can roll with that. My ego will always be a close second to an opportunity to nip out and go drinking.

Sheek
01-2008-10, 03:40 PM
If you'd like to let this conversation go and let someone else get a word in, I can roll with that. My ego will always be a close second to an opportunity to nip out and go drinking.

Cheers for giving me good arguments. :D

Afterburner
01-2008-10, 04:18 PM
If you'd like to let this conversation go and let someone else get a word in, I can roll with that. My ego will always be a close second to an opportunity to nip out and go drinking.

As DS says the thread is most likely Sheek AMOGing whoever makes a comment.
It has been said the dance floor is a trap b.c it is not possible to run a routine that's it. I have seen only a few ppl saying stay away from the dance floor if you are not a great dancer and all of them were new to the community. I love dancing and will dance at a party if there is a dance floor cause it is fun and lets you interact with ppl without using any words. If some method says the other way fuck that I couldn't care less. As you said before girls dance bc they don't want to talk for a while, but not only girls. When I feel like ppl are draining my energy just talking bs I excuse myself and dance. So do many guys.
I have seen many countries (Turkey, Italy, Malta, France, Switzerland, USA....) the common things about all of the clubs, parties I have been to in these countries were alcohol and dancing. Ppl dance to have fun. Even if you suck at dancing don't give a fuck if you like it, so what if a retard says you are a bad dancer. Reply them saying something like well you probably suck at having sex but you like doing it don't you.
What you should stay away doing from is getting a beer leaning back to a wall and watch ppl dancing and searching for a girl to dance with on the dance floor while sipping your beer. I see a bunch of those losers at parties and it is just pathetic.
The purpose of MM is to pick up chicks by becoming a more interesting and better person.(period) The purpose of our lives is to enjoy it,have fun and live a happy life with a happy family. As Mystery says why not pick up a girl while you are having fun. I just hope that's why majority of ppl are learning any of these seduction methods.

Sheek
01-2008-10, 04:33 PM
As DS says the thread is most likely Sheek AMOGing whoever makes a comment.

What's that smell??


It has been said the dance floor is a trap b.c it is not possible to run a routine that's it. I have seen only a few ppl saying stay away from the dance floor if you are not a great dancer and all of them were new to the community. I love dancing and will dance at a party if there is a dance floor cause it is fun and lets you interact with ppl without using any words. If some method says the other way fuck that I couldn't care less. As you said before girls dance bc they don't want to talk for a while, but not only girls. When I feel like ppl are draining my energy just talking bs I excuse myself and dance. So do many guys.
I have seen many countries (Turkey, Italy, Malta, France, Switzerland, USA....) the common things about all of the clubs, parties I have been to in these countries were alcohol and dancing. Ppl dance to have fun. Even if you suck at dancing don't give a fuck if you like it, so what if a retard says you are a bad dancer. Reply them saying something like well you probably suck at having sex but you like doing it don't you.

This didn't make sense to me. It's either because my Adderall has worn off, or because it just doesn't make sense.


What you should stay away doing from is getting a beer leaning back to a wall and watch ppl dancing and searching for a girl to dance with on the dance floor while sipping your beer. I see a bunch of those losers at parties and it is just pathetic.

Yes, I said this.


The purpose of MM is to pick up chicks by becoming a more interesting and better person.(period) The purpose of our lives is to enjoy it,have fun and live a happy life with a happy family. As Mystery says why not pick up a girl while you are having fun. I just hope that's why majority of ppl are learning any of these seduction methods.

No, the purpose of MM is to make as much money as they can, by making their products lure in as many people as possible looking for a shortcut/magic pill to improve their social skills. If they made more money by telling you the key to picking up women was to die your body green, they would.

Fortunately for the people they suck in, at least some of the things they say have some kind of relevance, and the fact that they tell people to "sarge" at least gets their students out of their houses on Friday nights.

I make these ridiculous anti-community posts in an effort to open people's eyes as to the deception to which they're being more and more attached.

I'll venture to say that 90% of the people who consider themselves successful with the M3 model get laid less than once every two months. They get to caught up with getting the little phases and what not right that they don't see the bigger picture and realize it's doing nothing for them.

Savoy
01-2008-10, 04:48 PM
No, the purpose of TMM is to make as much money as they can, by making their products lure in as many people as possible looking for a shortcut/magic pill to improve their social skills. If they made more money by telling you the key to picking up women was to die your body green, they would.


It may make you feel high and mighty to say that and if it fills an emotional need of yours, then great for you.

Anyone remotely familiar with TMM or the decisions we've made would know that such attitudes are diametrically opposed to the values under which we all operate. This statement is breathtaking in its ignorance.

DeadEyeDick
01-2008-10, 06:10 PM
This thread has tipped over from sort of useless to completely useless.

Please re-read the Forum FAQ section on what to post.

The Discussion section is for discussing the improvement of your skill-set.

Anti-method rants routinely follow the pattern of this thread.

You're welcome to post questions about methods, compare them, even criticize what you don't like about them.

You can even extol the virtues of being yourself and having fun. Naturals enjoy it. Guys who are still learning are trying to improve their lives in many ways.

But you can build up one thing without tearing down the other.

I'm closing this because this type of back-and-forth doesn't help guys improve their skills.

In fact, it doesn't contribute to the Forum at all.