PDA

View Full Version : Sinn & Savoy Bootcamp - Boston MA, Sept 2007 (W/ Fader)



zeerow game
09-16-2007, 12:00 AM
Just got back in from the bootcamp and Im pumped. Figured I would write the first review since I am wired right now.

Since the classroom stuff is probably pretty much the same for all bootcamps Im not gonna write much on it. All I can say is that seeing and hearing some of the stuff demonstrated in class makes it come across a million times clearer. There are just some things that you need to witness to understand fully.

Infield practice, this was the main attraction for taking this class and it was well worth it. Along with Sinn and Savoy we had Fader, Puzzler, and one more instructor for infield (his PUA name escapes me now but his real name is Tony).

Sinn - The first night I did a few sets with Sinn observing. He definitely knows his stuff and is one of the most respected guys out there for a reason. He showed me some of my main sticking points and helped me break that comfort barrier where your brain tells you "you cant" when you actually can if you just do it. Had a little trouble when he came in to wing for me because I was trying to hear what he was saying instead of keeping my target interested. Last set of the weekend he winged for me for about 30 minutes did a perfect job keeping the friend occupied and boosting me up, agreeing, basically DHV'ing me in the set.

Savoy - Didnt really do many sets with him witnessing maybe 1 or 2 so theres not really much to say on his part.

Puzzler - Did probably 4 -5 sets with him watching and although hes relatively new to the instructing he was very helpful while watching my sets and helping critique what happened, why it happened, and where i messed up.

Cant Remember his PUA name (Tony) - Did about 6-7 sets with him on the two nights that he was out. Definitely a good pusher to go and open open open. Once I got my warmups out of the way he was with me setting up and critiquing performance. Great at pushing sets I wasnt really comfortable with mixed sets, 4+ sets, sets with AMOG's either present or entering etc. Great critiquing skills and willing to watch as many as I wanted to open.

Fader -
I probably spent about 80% of my time in the field with Fader and have to say that he was in my opinion the best instructor in the bootcamp. Super high energy and an awesome teacher. The way it worked out I spent pretty much all of friday night with him and opened shitloads of sets. Of course the first few I got blown out of the water or ejected too early and every time he explained to me what I was doing wrong and how to try and fix it. Later on friday night I was starting to get the opening better and he coached me on improving my attraction and qualification. There were a few sets that I thought he was going to have a heart attack on because the girls were hot and diggin me and I ejected for no real reason. Kept me in the game and threatened to "jump in front of a bus" if I didnt go back in and stick the sets out. For someone who is new to the game and needed to break down barriers and thought of what he could and couldnt do fader really lit a fire under my ass

Saturday night the way things turned out I ended up doing about half my sets with him again. And just like friday night he was still pushing to open as many as possible and stay in as long as possible. Where before I was originally ejecting to early I was now staying in the sets longer and being able to keep better control of my target and set. Im pretty high energy/add myself and Fader was exactly the kind of teacher I needed to help push this material across and just keep opening. His infield commentary was dead on and I think that is what helped me make the huge leap in progress that I did from the start of the weekend till the end. He is basically like the John Madden of infield game when breaking down my sets to me. Really helped me understand and internalize the info.

Overall the weekend was awesome and if you have these guys coming to your area I would highly reccomend checking them out. There is only so much reading that you can do in books and on the forums. Seeing this in the field done by real professionals will blow your mind and the fact that you can even begin learning this stuff in a weekend is amazing. The cost of the class might be a little steep but when you can see and feel the effects it was well worth it. Before this class I had serious anxiety to talk girls in the club and tonight I was opening and holding the attention of large sets and basically controlling the whole conversation

The only way I can sum it up is AWESOME.

Elric
09-16-2007, 09:39 AM
Thanks!
Great Review man,
It was really great working with all you guys. Keep doing the footwork and you'll be amazed at your improvements.

-Tony

inthemachines
09-16-2007, 08:39 PM
This workshop was awesome. I made mad progress: with in-field feedback from Sinn, Puzzler, and Fadr, I went from being barely able to open, to being able to consistently open, lock in, transition, and do attraction for about 5 minutes. Some sets with really cute girls went for 15-20 minutes, which is far and away the best I've ever done. I see more and more the wisdom in Sinn's saying that "getting laid is easy - it's just a matter of not fucking up." I could often pinpoint the spot where I messed up - it was often just an awkward pause, which I can fix with practice, and sometimes it was something in my body-language that the instructors or ACs would correct.

I have to agree with the first poster: Fadr is the man. He was top-notch at getting me into sets, giving me feedback, and he never failed to put a grin on my face and get me feeling good even when I was feeling down.

I'd also like to give a shout-out to the other person who really helped me: Puzzler. This guy is GREAT. He got me talking to more people than anyone else and gave me some super-helpful feedback on body language and bantering. I learned a huge amount from working with him. The day after the workshop (he was in town for one more day before flying back home) he even went shopping with me and helped me pick out some good jeans to fit with the image Sinn said I should project. After wearing these, I can never go back. I'm burning all my old jeans. He was going to take me to a store to get some shirts and a blazer but all the stores close early on Sunday. I also saw Puzzler doing more role-playing with other guys after the day classes and before the evening sessions. It's clear that Puzzler wants students to succeed. He goes above and beyond the call of duty to see that they do.

The most useful parts of the seminar for me were the roleplaying exercises, especially the over-the-shoulder opening excercise. This was really helpful for me and judging by the amount of feedback we all got I think it was helpful for everyone. Sinn and Fadr turned the music up just like it would be in a club and had us walk up and open them over the shoulder. After a while Sinn had to put down a napkin on the floor to indicate where people should stop, because we kept going too far or stopping too soon. As soon as you made a mistake ("I can't hear you", "keep your shoulders facing straight ahead", "you forgot to time constraint", "turn and face us after we acknowledge you", etc), you had to start over, until you could do it right all the way through.

The first night, two guys pulled and one guy got laid. *rock*

The second night was great, but had one sour note: for some weird reason, we didn't get our final de-brief from Sinn. This was too bad, because Sinn had observed me for a while in set, but he had to leave midway during the set, so I never got to hear his suggestions. At least 6 students and two approach coaches were waiting outside the venue for 30-45 minutes but for some reason I don't fully understand Sinn never met us there. Savoy eventually just had to say, basically, "well, that's it guys, thanks".

During the day, Savoy taught a few things, but it was mostly Sinn. His teaching was excellent, but by necessity, he covered a lot of material that was already available to readers of Magic Bullets. I think it would be even better if they would send out Magic Bullets to everyone a month in advance of the workshop, and let Sinn spend more time covering new developments since the most recent Magic Bullets and doing roleplaying exercises.

zeerow game
09-16-2007, 10:23 PM
This goes out to the previous poster. I didnt want to put this in my writeup of the weekend because I figured I would keep it on the topic of the mystery method

Basically the second night did not go at all the way Sinn and the others planned it. Basically there were some other boston guys from th community and they were bugging Sinn and Savoy. They were constantly interrupting bootcamp students sets and just being dicks in general. I personally witnessed Sinn and Savoy talk to one of them and basically ask out of respect that they leave the students alone and let them do sets.

The guys basically refused and kept trying to disrupt everything. It really hit the fan when one of the guys actually put his hands on one of the kids in the bootcamp. At this point Sinn and Fader along with myself and I think two other students stepped in to stop it. There was no altercation or punches thrown but the whole lot of us got ejected from the venue.

We waited outside for about 10-15 minutes to see if it was possible to regroup the class but in the end Sinn decided that since the ratio of student to teacher was still workable we just moved to another location. There were 3 teachers at the original venu and Sinn and Fader moved with us to the new venue. I can honestly say that this was a complete curveball and both Sinna nd Fader apologized for the problems even though it wasnt there fault. Sinn basically said that he could care less if people were messing with him but once they started interupting and trying to physicaly harm one of his students that was all he was going to take.

Overall Sinn and Fader had to make a decision that there was no optimal solution for. I understand and feel that they did the best they could with the problem they were faced with.

PuzzlerPUA
09-17-2007, 12:48 PM
Thanks for the props! Feel free to PM me (on the lounge) anything else you guys want to talk about. It was awesome seeing everybody change overnight!

Puzzler

Fader
09-17-2007, 03:17 PM
LOL to the jump in front of the bus line. Thank you so much for everything man I had a sick time. Let me know if you are coming to nyc and next time I come to boston we are def chilling.

2 pieces of advice: Never leave the set and lead with authority (ok slide over). 2 for 2 on seated set attempts. Holla at that!

zeerow game
09-17-2007, 07:02 PM
LOL to the jump in front of the bus line. Thank you so much for everything man I had a sick time. Let me know if you are coming to nyc and next time I come to boston we are def chilling.

2 pieces of advice: Never leave the set and lead with authority (ok slide over). 2 for 2 on seated set attempts. Holla at that!

Honestly I dont think I could have broken through so many barriers without your help. I cant wait until wednesday, thursday, friday, and saturday to go start working with this stuff again. I may be down for classics too if so Ill drop you a msg before hand.

inthemachines
09-17-2007, 11:55 PM
Today I talked with Sinn and Fader and they did the final de-brief with me. Sinn discussed the set I mentioned above with me, and they both gave me some really solid feedback. I'm really happy about this.

I also took a Mystery Method bootcamp back in 2005, but for various reasons I didn't stick with it, and probably did only 10-15 approaches between the two BCs.

By any measure, my results after this most recent bootcamp were far better than after the first one. I think the bootcamp has advanced considerably since 2005. After the first bootcamp, I couldn't even open consistently. I remember Mystery saying that all his students could open consistently, but I sure couldn't.

After this bootcamp, I can not only open consistently, but I can consistently transition, lock in, and get enough interest to start qualification. Everyone has to start someplace, and I am really happy with my results so far. Thanks to the great individual feedback I got, I know exactly what I need to work on to improve.

Fader
09-18-2007, 10:15 AM
Today I talked with Sinn and Fader and they did the final de-brief with me. Sinn discussed the set I mentioned above with me, and they both gave me some really solid feedback. I'm really happy about this.

I also took a Mystery Method bootcamp back in 2005, but for various reasons I didn't stick with it, and probably did only 10-15 approaches between the two BCs.

By any measure, my results after this most recent bootcamp were far better than after the first one. I think the bootcamp has advanced considerably since 2005. After the first bootcamp, I couldn't even open consistently. I remember Mystery saying that all his students could open consistently, but I sure couldn't.

After this bootcamp, I can not only open consistently, but I can consistently transition, lock in, and get enough interest to start qualification. Everyone has to start someplace, and I am really happy with my results so far. Thanks to the great individual feedback I got, I know exactly what I need to work on to improve.

My piece of advice: you're awesome. the more you realize it the more they will realize it. In the 48 laws he says act like royalty to be treated as such. That 6 set you hooked first night was nuts. 4 girls 2 guys all 6 in rapt at what you are saying.

Be awesome bro.

Fader
09-19-2007, 10:14 AM
This was posted on the lounge:

There were some great stories from this week's bootcamp in Boston. We had with us some great instructors and field coaches. Sinn, Savoy, Fader, Elric and Puzzler.

I am not sure if this is the place to post it, however, I need to riff on a few of the sets I ran during bootcamp:

1) Night Before Bootcamp - The day before bootcamp, I went out with a friend and his girlfriend. The goal wasn't to sarge, however, I ended up opening 3 sets. I hooked 2 of the sets by calling the one girl, "Poopie Pants" (sp?). The set was from NY and I am Canadian...so I had fuck with them for a while.
It was a 3 set and I was locked in tight. I didn't isolate that well and lost the set. I tried to isolate later on, however, I didn't do it with conviction and eventually lost out. They kept pulling me back in, so I figure I was at least at the "hook point"....every time I said, "Poopie Pants" they laughed their ass off. It got to the point, where I stopped calling the one girl, "Poopie Pants" because they would laugh for a good 5 mins...

2) Day 1 of Bootcamp - Sinn was hosting the seminar and definitely did not disappoint.
The in field portion was held at a night club/sports bar. I opened 7 sets.
2 sets fizzled out because they were an 8 set-seated-mixed-set. When I ran my opener, the set said they heard it before (even though I was running a different opener) and wanted to know, what the fuck was goin' on? After that, I worked a different opener and things started to hook. I met up with Puzzler and Elric and they pointed out a seated 4 set at the bar.
I opened and one girl hooked right away. The other girl said I had a nice shirt but she didn't like my tie. I resisted the urge to call her Poopie Pants and kept rolling.
Sinn rolls in beside me and starts working the obsticle. I mini isolate the other chick at the bar and I can tell its on. I lock in and start running some additional attraction and comfort material - Shaq story hooks and she is laughing her ass off. She is kinoing me like crazy and I can sense she is interested. Long story short, I bounce her back to her house, where I run into a mean case of LMR. I try to walk out and call a cab, but she comes out and tells me to hang with her for a second. Apparently I have mad "Cuddly Game" and thats all she wants to do...I leave at 5:30 am with a boner and a mad case of blue balls.

3) Day 2 - 2nd Bootcamp Night in Boston. I roll to the club and see Fader, Sinn and two other students in set. Its in the smoking lounge, which usually I stay away from, however, I decide to jump right in. I run my opener and it hooks. Fader tells me to lock in by the window and I am all over it. A couple of their moms come in set (yeah, I know...their moms...simply fucked). I decide to befriend them. I run my 50/100 routine and they love it. However, one of the moms tells me to strip. I ask for their hand, then, smack the top of it and them that is for being a bad girl....I keep rolling. I eventually eject about 4 feet when there is another bachelorette party. They are all wearing the same shirt..."Blah, Blah...Tell Your Mother To Stay Away From Us". ...hahaha I laugh at them. Tell them I was going to wear the same shirt tonight. A 9 HB enters the set. She is married. For some reason she has her "smokes" rolled up in her sleeve. I call her James Dean and that I hope she didn't have them rolled up in her wedding dress during the ceremony...I am having too much fun fucking with them, so I decide to eject.

The instructors point out 2 more sets in which eventually die out. Why? - I didn't lock in. At one point, some community guy notices me and figures out what I am doing. He pulls me into his set of the 3 guys (...can you say, "Acckkkwarrd" in a high pitch voice). I try to get out and he follows me till I am talking to Fader.

This is hilarious, because Fader literally tells him to, "Facccccckkkkk Aaaahhfffff". I have told people to fuck off before, however, when you say it with a NY accent, it is soooo much better. I laugh as if someone called me Poopie Pants and keep rolling into set.

Next, Puzzler points out a 3 set and I open. It hooks. All of a sudden, Sinn walks by and yells, "Locking in is fun. We love to Lock in. That is why we lock in". I see his point. I move them to a table close by. I lock in (and think it is weird that no one else noticed that but me?). A bunch of obsticles come in. Students come in and do a great job of winging. I isolate. I kiss close the Brunette but don't grab her number...

After that, I tell Elric to point out another set. It is a standing 3 set. I open. It hooks. One chick leaves the set. Another stays for a while. I tell them I am an Image Consultant for Executives. I should have asked the Instructors about this, however, it seems to work and hook like crazy. I am working the blond, when another student comes up to wing. I isolate. Then an AMOG comes in. The target says she is having fun. AMOG leaves. Another AMOG comes in 10 mins later. Target says she likes talking to me. AMOG leaves. Students are coming in and out of set like fucking pickup ninjas and they seem to handle all the AMOGs. Another fucking AMOG with his GF comes in, and this time the target tells them she is having fun and she will catch up with them later.
At this point I obviously know she is interested. She cheek kisses me.
At this point, Elric walks by and says, "NNNNNUMMMMMBERRRR CLLLLOSSE"...again no one else seems to notice? I number close her and leave.

So what are my sticking points? 1) Locking In Early 2) Touch 3) I am too nice in set - I need to ditch the sick cuddly game.

Overall, a great experience. The instructors were amazing. Savoy, Sinn, Fader thanks for all the help.

Elric/Puzzler - Thanks for all your help. I couldn't get the nickname VIBE because it was too short!

Thanks to all my fellow students...you guys were great!

Fastlane aka Vibe

caption
09-19-2007, 08:16 PM
Background -- I hesitated to sign up for the bootcamp at first, dismissing it as ‘lame’ and thinking its only purpose was to push guys to get out in the field who are such dorks to begin with that they need to spend three grand just to overcome AA. Being a pretty motivated guy, I felt I had picked up a lot from reading Magic Bullets and postings on the forum. I was starting to opens sets with some success, and thought that my game would naturally improve over time as long as I just made a little more effort. That chunk of change, I felt, would be better spent on other things, such as taking my gorgeous new girlfriend to the Caribbean (as soon as I got around to picking her up, of course). Then it hit me. Life goes by fast. I’m already 24 and though I’m not doing too badly in most areas of my life, when it comes to sex, ‘lame’ is actually not too far off the mark. Magic Bullets is a great book, but honestly, walking up to two girls and saying some material I memorized out of an e-book is still a long way from getting that gorgeous girlfriend (or pretty much any woman for that matter). Perhaps I can figure a few things out on my own, I thought, but as things stand, I’m a long way from meeting my goals, enjoying experiences with women, and living life to the fullest. So I sucked up my pride and pulled out my wallet.

Classroom – The most valuable part about bootcamp is not the material itself, but the way the material is presented with the instructor’s commentary and perspective. Sinn, who did 95% of the teaching at this particular session, is obviously a veteran in the world of pickup and came across as a bit gruff and jaded at first. But shortly thereafter, it became evident that he seriously knew his shit. I usually get things quickly and I’m bored in classes because I’ve heard it all before. You can get the theory from magic bullets, but the sheer life experience Sinn had under his belt was worth the price of the bootcamp alone. For the past five years, the guy has literally been going out night and day opening sets with maniacal dedication. At first I thought his demeanor tended towards condescending, but as bootcamp went on any fledgling feelings of contempt quickly resolved into awe and inspiration. The guy has been with hundreds of women! Case closed! His ‘tough love’ style was like that of an elder master – you’re not sure if he’s quite paying attention till all of a sudden he blurts out seven words like, “didn’t qualify enough, violated attraction switch #3.” It echoes through your mind, your mouth hangs open and you realize that he instantly cut right to the heart of the issue and that’s exactly what you need to do to solve that particular problem. I was completely amazed every time he answered a student’s question in class. He's one of the most respected in the community for a reason. Sinn presented all of the material very naturally, making it memorable and interesting and peppering it with his own signature lines and routines. All of his versions and interpretations really resonated due to his social intuition and sheer hours of field experience. Finally, he tied the material together on an almost intellectual level, citing psychological experiments and references to outside books that supported his points – not in a geeky way, just in a way that made you appreciate how legitimate and sensible all of his material really is. Worth every penny.

Field – All the instructors were valuable in the field. Sinn didn’t excel quite as much here as in the classroom, but perhaps this was just due to the fact that it was a large class and there was only so much of him to go around. Plus, at one point on the second night, a logistical issue beyond our control separated part of the group so he was isolated from some students for a bit. Savoy and Fader helped out as much as they could, as did the two approach coaches, Elric and Juggler. I spent most of my time with Juggler and Fader, who were both great. They really took the time to help analyze my sticking points and provided a personalized perspective on all levels of game. I isolated, built comfort with, and number closed several attractive girls over the course of the two nights and probably could have gone farther with them had I better applied what I learned in class.

Conclusion -- At the end of the weekend I felt that I got well more than my money’s worth out of the bootcamp experience. In fact it was so good that I almost selfishly wished it were more expensive so less people are exposed to it! I now have 15 hours of truly excellent classroom material under my belt, I went out and lived what I learned, and I did things I never imagined possible. I have a solid notebook full of notes, a network of dedicated friends in the community to support me, and a freshly renewed perspective. It was only my first step on the journey to achieving my goals with women, and it is not going to be an easy road, but I am completely confident that I will fulfill that goal someday soon.

LightningSnake
09-22-2007, 11:37 AM
I was at the seminar portion of the bootcamp (I'm 18) and have to say that it way exceeded my expectations. At first I was apprehenscious about spending money on a seminar that could otherwise be spent to acquire enough seduction material to last years but anybody can read a book-whereas it's a privilege to learn directly from the masters.

I expected to be re-learning things I'd already read but was relieved to find this was a minority of time spent and that most information was field tested and original from the minds of the masters. The instructors were cool guys and I trusted the things they told me (unlike some of the weird things Mystery himself says). Since the information was presented verbally it really sunk in more and carried greater weight. By the end of the third day seminar and Day Game seminar I had 16 solid pages of quality notes.
I had a lot of success meeting women between seminars and this was greatly due to all the hot tips I was getting that were fresh in my mind. The field portion would surely have magnified the effectiveness of using the material and I really wish I could have done it. It'd be nice to take it in the future but three years from now when I'm of an age to legally club I'm hoping I won't need it, especially now that I know how to run solid game.