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adamm411
02-19-2007, 01:26 AM
A Brunette and her mom: a perplexing situation

This is from Sat. night:

I open a three set at a table Saturday at a venue with lots of college gals. A tall brunette (my wing rates her a '9') in her early twenties, and two women in their fifties.

Me: "It's so nice to be hanging out with people my age," I tell the older ladies first. These two ladies are staring at me, slack jawed at my statement. I'm perplexed by their reaction, but I keep talking, and the young brunette is receptive, smiling, laughing and chatting with me.

I decide to chat more or less exclusively with the young brunette, as the older ladies simply continue to stare silently, mouths open.
Me: "so how do you all know each other?" I ask the brunette.
Brunette: "(silence)....we all work together."

After a few minutes, I become more and more confused by the situation. The brunette is initially receptive, and as a result, I'm more high energy, trying to make the interaction more playful. But this brunette is well behaved, polite and demure throughout, regardless of my own energy level. In fact, the more high energy I am, the more discomfort this creates for the brunette in front of the older ladies (one of whom she later confesses is her mom, with an embarrassed smile). As a result, I try to bring the energy level down a notch, which makes the brunette more comfortable but simultaneously makes me uncomfortable as I become more aware that my energy level was mismatched with hers earlier.

I try to incorporate the older ladies in the conversation, but their behavior is wooden and difficult to read. The mom is very superficially friendly, with a big smile frozen on her face when I look at her, and she agrees with everything I say, but the girl's mom says nothing of substance, and stares at me like a hawk, according to my wing.

I'm ready to bail. It's just a very strange and tough situation to read. I ask the brunette for her number.
her: "well, I have a boyfriend."
me: "I'm not asking for his number, I'm asking for yours."
her: she chuckles: "I know, but I'm a good person, and I don't want to cheat."

I excuse myself and tell them it was nice to meet them all.

Quite simply put, this interaction was very confusing for me. First, the age disparity of the women in the group confused me. Second, my embarrassment at the discomfort created by the mismatch between my energy level and the girl's was an issue. As a result of these factors, I felt like I didn't "deserve" to close. So, I deliberately
asked for the number rather than choosing a more viable strategy ("how can I get in touch with you again, or any other strategem).

A very strange situation. A girl and her mom. The girl refuses to admit that she is with her mom. The mom's reaction was perplexing. Just a weird one.

How do you handle a situation with a young woman with her mom out in a bar?

crh
02-19-2007, 04:55 AM
I was in a similar situation a few months ago, except I engaged the obstacle (the mother), and, unfortunately, engaged all too well.

After a while, the HB actually got got edged out, because she was nowhere near as good a conversationalist as her mother.

Don't know what to do in that situation.

Legion5
02-19-2007, 05:38 AM
Crh if you're going to IOI the obstacles or heavily engage them then you need to calibrate your IOI's the key is not to make it past A3 with them.

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Anyway according to MM you can't numberclose until you isolate, simply put you got a weird form of ASD because of the presence of the mom.

I feel this was the main issue above all the other misshaps.

jbrett
02-19-2007, 10:01 AM
Sucks she lied and said it was her co-workers. If you knew it was her mom from the start you could have calibrated. Older women are very easy to win over with a few "nice guy" compliments about their looks, how they dress, ect. They eat it up usually.

I would never number close in front of her mom unless her mom really loved you. Do NOT forget about winning over the obstacles, when you couldn't win them over you ignored them. Easy, but not solid game. The "watching you like a hawk" signals among other things shows that you indeed did not win over her mom. These ladies are 50 at least, so calibrate, and I know you can because you picked up that the brunette was uncomfortable with your energy level.

Props to you for having the balls to open this set and keep on going even though you didnt get a warm initial response. I really respect that.

adamm411
02-19-2007, 10:56 AM
I found myself in a somewhat similar situation a few months ago, and found the situation go south within minutes as a result of the mom dynamic.

I was shopping at a clothing store, and as I walk through the aisle, I notice a tall young blonde staring. She's looking through the brassiere selection on a rack. I hold her eye contact and she smiles at me with her head lowered, in a coy, seductive fashion. I walk over to her and chit chat.

For a couple of minutes or so, she's warm and friendly. She's got one pair of bras in each hand, as we talk in the lingerie section. She says she's home for summer break from college blah blah blah. She says she's home for summer break from college blah blah blah. Then, after a couple minutes, her smile begins to disappear. Then, she starts to look nervously over her shoulder repeatedly. This is really beginning to confuse me.

Then, an older lady who I hadn't seen before, maybe 25 years older, walks over to the both of us. The older lady looks in my direction, but not in mye eye. Then she looks in her daughter's? direction, but not in her daughter's eye. The daughter looks in the "mom's" direction, but not in her "mom's" eyes. The mom then walks off and the girl walks off. "Bye," she says. That was the end of that conversation!

I think these girls are afraid to go "into state" in front of their moms.

durexlw
02-19-2007, 11:30 AM
First of all, Adamm, It's fun to read how you handled that set. You come over as very aware of what's happening.

About two weeks ago, I approached a 3set also on a table, where I somewhat knew one of the girls. Turns out, she's about 28, she had a hot sister about my age and her mom, sitting between them, and in front of me... I had that same thing right there: the mother, even though she was quite responsive, she didn't say a word, she just overlooked the whole situation. It weirded me out too, I was leaving the club as I opened that set, so the change of venue I had planned, I never did it... the whole thing was just weird.
I felt confident I could get the two young girls along, but that whole mom thing... just didn't want to go there man. They came with one car and they were about an hour drive away, so I was pretty sure they wouldn't split up.
It's one thing introducing 2 chicks to your friends in the other club, it's another thing having to add: "ow yeah... and this is her mom"

Where you left off with that girl you talked about: she said: "I know, but I'm a good person, and I don't want to cheat."
The "but" is an important word there... she had an equivalent in her head: "giving my phonenumber to a guy when I have a partner, is cheating on my partner".
Maybe you could try:
"Now, no more talking about cheating in front of your mother, girl... but I won't make it a secret I like talking to you, I think you'll make a great friend, here's my number. Call me if you're around, but only if you loyal to your partner, I don't like my friends cheating."

Here, you challenge the equivalent: "giving my number = cheating my partner" from bolth ends... you took away the first by saying "here's my number" and you challenge the second part by saying: "you can't call unless you're loyal to your boyfriend... I just like you as a friend, and I don't like friend cheating on their partner"

Maybe add a routine of a time some girl cheated on you to build some comfort.

Something along that lines... sink with the resistance, include the mother and recognise the "I wanna be a good girl in front of my mother", but also leave her the opportunity to contact you when your mother ain't around at the same time telling her she can only call you when she's loyal, to take away any resistance her mom could have against the whole thing.
Normally I wouldn't go there, but I think you have a good shot recognising that equivalent and giving your number to her.

eVan
02-21-2007, 03:21 PM
I think the HB didn't give you her number because she was anti-slut defending. The fact that her mother was there put up another anti-slut defense shield. Why was she at a bar with her mother? Aren't unconscious irresponsible cuties just so fun to game? Lol. Yeah, maybe asking how you could get in touch with her may have worked better. Try it next time.

later, eVan