View Full Version : Sicking Points: Who Lies More opener

02-16-2007, 06:02 AM
I know , this opener is so old it must be chucked , yet since I use it in my college(primarily because no one over here knows about it) I’ve had the following sticking points. I hope you guys can help

1. How should I come back if the answer they is “Well no idea/ cant say" etc???

2. What is the next best thing to say after they answer "guys"? Like if they answer girls, I usually come back with “You have no respect for your gender" or something on the lines of it.

3. Is it necessary to complete the story i.e. “we were having a discussion among friends / I got an email saying…blah blah” if they have already answered guys /girls??
I feel it kind of decreases the energy level because their answer doesn’t change. In my opinion, the story part should only be used if the answer is something on the lines of “Can’t say” etc?

Any other comments or suggestions are welcome.


02-17-2007, 06:24 PM
Hey man, glad to see someone else using this opener. lol
My root: "The reason I am asking is because I just got off the phone with this girl my buddie has been dating who is a TOTAL femminist, and she was trying to tell me that guys lie more than girls. Girls definitely lie more!"

#1. Anyways if the say no idea, I say "if you had to pick a side (playful tone)"

#2 If they say guys, I say you would be perfect for my friend (see root) if they say girls, I say "ahhh you agree with me, I am going to adopt you as my little sisters for the night!"

#3. The only time I root is if I can see the set not hooking, but if I am in an enviornment where I can talk I will root everytime. Like if I ask who lies more, and they are like "ummmmmm", and eye-coding each other. I also noticed the decrease in energy when they are have to answer twice, but I try to talk over or ignore their first response. I have noticed when dealing with difficult sets (short patience, or moving/distracted sets) that if you root it is easier to hook.

I ALWAYS say girls lie more, and when they ask how " I say hair color, makeup, push up bras (they ALWAYS laugh at push up bras)

Oh I dont know if you do this already but when i disqualify I dont sit on it. example:
me: who lies more
her: girls:
me: you are perfect for my friend
me: why do you think guys lie more?

thats all i can think of. Let me know how it goes for ya

Sticking point:I am looking for a universal neg/disqualifier for both answers, let me know if you come across one


02-17-2007, 06:45 PM
I remember there was a line by, can't remember who, goes something along the lines of

Guys tell lies like "you don't look fat in that dress" but girls tell the big lies like "it's your baby!"

Articulation needs a little working out but yeah you get the idea

02-17-2007, 09:14 PM
Line is by Chris Rock.

02-17-2007, 10:04 PM
Thanks a ton cyberrage , nightflight7 and PradaG.

I guess i'll really go and feild test your suggestions.

And cyberrage i'll let you know about the universal neg as soon as i find it out. I'm still new to negs department. In case you do , let me know.

02-18-2007, 12:09 AM
Guys tell lies like "you don't look fat in that dress" but girls tell the big lies like "it's your baby!"

Used this tonight, seems to work on puerto ricans and blacks (that laughed sooo hard), but bombed on upper class white girls (they couldnt identify?)

Let me know if you want specifics

02-18-2007, 04:25 AM
the proper layout for this opener is in the VAH. it basically says that you were reading an article while getting your hair cut the other day... its called grounding your opner to your reality,your opener has to be relevant socially or otherwise...otherwise youll just come across weird.

hope this helps:)

Confidence Man
02-18-2007, 06:39 AM
I tell them about a discussion with my buddy.

- "Who lies more, men or women?"

1. No real reaction or they don´t care or don´t really know:

In this case I always add the following line to give them a better chance to talk about it on different levels:

"With lying I also mean cheating and manipulating." (I think every girl has more or less experience with any of these topics) If they still don´t react I give them my opinion on it. I say girls lie more. If they still don´t react they are either boring or I made something wrong and I leave the set. Sometimes they think about it and approach me later with some thoughts about it.

2. They say men:

My response:"Ahhh typical answer for women! I knew it, i´m in the feminist corner here! You hate men!" (delivered with a big smile) And then I continue as usual with:"I think women lie more..."

3. They say women:

My response:"Ahhh come on, you´re just trying to impress me with that answer! But you´re not a very good liar! (delivered with a big smile) "But I really do think women lie more..."

So i got an answer for every possibility.

How do I go on from there into A2?

After that I continue with:"I think women lie more but you´re not as dumb as the guys so you never get caught! Yeah, guys perhaps lie more about small things like ´I really like that shirt/haircut´ (pointing to the targets shirt or hair)

If she says wtf is wrong with my shirt/hair I say without real interest to her:"Your shirt/hair is ok, everyone´s wearing shirts/hair like that these days"

I go on from there with:"What I believe is that guys cheat more on their girls, that may be true, but on the other hand you girls are definately a whole lot crazier than men. And you girls don´t seem to be an exception (with a smile).
For example last week somebody asked me if I was a pimp... (in the sense of having girls to sell their asses on the street for my money - I don´t know if pimp is the right English word for this - I´m from Germany:p )

and then comes my first dhv story where this stripper chick asked me if I was a pimp because I had girls all around me and then she started to hit on me. That crazy bitch...;)

It wasn´t easy to translate my whole routine from German into English.
Please comment on this if you can. And how´s my English? I like your language!

02-18-2007, 09:59 AM
Nice post Confidence, your english is very good.

02-18-2007, 08:28 PM
Thanks a ton Confidence:that was real good.That is the most complete version I ever heard. I'll surely feild test this.

Your english is good too...

Confidence Man
02-19-2007, 01:39 AM
Thanks man!

Yeah please fieldtest it and let me know how well it worked. I´m curious if there are any different reactions than in Germany just because of the different mentality.

Vaya con dios, amigos

02-25-2007, 01:09 PM
I have had great success with this opener (virtually always hooks on the street when performed well), but I have twisted it: I combined it with a variation of the Jealous Girlfriend opener.

Here is the routine:
Me: (as I am just walking past them, and only part of them is in my field of vision) “I need an opinion on something; who lies more, men or women?”
Set: whatever response, it does not matter (set usually turns to face me, I turn towards them shortly after)
Me: “OK..” (short pause, perhaps hinting that I am not sure if I want to ask) “Who cheats more, men or women?”
Set: whatever response, it doesn’t really matter
Me: “OK..” (perhaps a false takeaway – if performed, maybe drop shoulders slightly and breathe out as turning back to set – see last paragraph of post) “.. I have a very close friend in Yale University/New York/whatever with a girlfriend back home in (wherever you and friend are from). He recently became friends with a great group of girls. When the girlfriend found out, she started acting upset. Is she just jealous?”
Set: “yes” (if set has girls, it is virtually always yes)

Asking who lies and cheats more implies that there is lying and cheating going on somewhere in the relationship, thus adding drama (not perfectly, though – it implies that I also do not know exactly what is going on. It may be better to ask “who is it easier to tell is lying/cheating, men or women?”). When you have practiced the routine several times, you can ask the questions in a way that builds some suspense – thus, you have a hook, and girls will never ask if you are taking a poll. If you can get the girls to ask why you are asking (and therefore they draw the story out from you), that would be even better, but I have not been able to do so.

The story is a DHV through social proof: your friend is liked by a lot of girls and getting laid, people tend to be similar to their friends, and therefore you are probably liked by a lot of girls and getting laid too. This DHV is honest, as it only increases the probability that you are attractive, but does not directly state that you are.

The routine will work best if you change it to fit your reality – it’s easy, all you need is a friend who is liked by girls but who already has a girlfriend (thus, the basis behind the story is true, even though if girlfriend hasn’t actually found out about the other girls yet).

If there is an ‘extreme but true’ aspect to your story that shows the girls are even more attracted to him, you have a great bonus: AMOG. Add that little aspect in after the story, and Alpha males may say “bullshit” or grunt (I even had a HB10 I was talking to say “bullshit”, along with two other guys in the set). If the extra bit is true, you hold frame naturally and effortlessly, and are instantly alpha. Massive DHV, even if the set was non-compliant.

I discovered that dropping my shoulders and releasing my breath before telling the story implies that I am getting a load off my back – thus, the story is almost certainly true and closely tied to me, and I am not thinking about getting a date with the set (small false disqualifier). Calibration probably needed for dropping the shoulders, as I doubt it will work for 9s and 10s (it says I am emotionally affected, which I do not want in such cases). This can be hard to do, and is an addition I have only started to test.

Confidence Man
03-04-2007, 07:44 AM
Anybody tried my material yet?

Let me know.