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Sovereign
05-08-2006, 10:08 AM
This may well have been one of the realizations that hit you first. Like many of us, you may have sat there and watched as HB after HB were more attracted to guys you would call 'assholes' than you (Mr. Nice Guy.) And like many of us, you probably sat there shaking your head trying to figure out "Why??"
I mean there you were, with flowers, asking about her dog and dedicating Air Supply songs to her and yet she pushes you aside. And then, there is this other guy, clearly an alpha male but also clearly not going to win any awards for his pleasant disposition and she is eye fucking him while you are telling her about your favorite poem.
So what happens? Is it just that you were 'too easy'? That you aren't a 'challenge'? How many hours did your AFC mind dwell on this? Does it still bug the hell out of you? If so, I may be able to shed some light on the situation for you. I can shed this light, because I myself am that bad boy. I'm that guy. I'm not an asshole (although some will disagree), but I am not what you would call a 'nice guy.' My motives are never pure and sadly most women were not better off for being with me (most? hell, none of them were.) But that is my issue, let me help you with yours.
Women love the bad boy, not because they are bad, but because they can be saved!
It is that simple. The pure bad boy doesn't work. It is the bad boy that she sees something else in, she sees the little kid inside, the damaged man standing before her. And she sees all this as a cry for help!
Think about this for a second. This means that just a pure asshole, or a typical 'bad boy' does not engender attraction. What is needed is the tragedy, the cause for why you are a bad boy.
- Your heart was broken and now you are a hardened cynic.
- Mommy or Daddy didn't pay any attention to you.
- Your peers rejected you at any early age.
- You fell in with the wrong crowd.
etc.etc. You get the point. The essential thing here is that they need to believe that YOU CAN BE SAVED. And you need to hint to them that THEY CAN SAVE YOU. Now, I don't want to debate the morality of this. Personally, I am sick of people throwing their stones in their glass houses here stating what is or isn't moral. However, I wanted to give you a glimpse into why women are with and attracted to this type of persona.
Me? I'm the sociopathic genius without a heart, but yet you can still see the hurt little boy inside, and I am kind to those less fortunate than I am. Thus, they all melt and want to reform this bad boy. Let them try, I don't care. Why don't I care? Like I said....I am THAT GUY.
I hope this helps shed some light on this for those who wondered.

Balthazar
05-08-2006, 11:30 AM
The essential thing here is that they need to believe that YOU CAN BE SAVED. And you need to hint to them that THEY CAN SAVE YOU
Wow I couldn't disagree more. In fact that is the polar opposite of the truth as I see it. Not to be flippant, but do you know who needs saving? Homeless men, depressed men, paraplegics etc... Girls like the bad boy because they seem like the kind of person that was needed in cave man days: warriors, hunters, people who weren't afraid instill fear into the hearts of other men. They were the alpha males. The beta males were the alpha males bitches, if you will. They went around offering to help alphas in any way they could to stay on their good side. Alpha males could afford to be dicks. Ever notice why everyone thinks their boss is a dick? Because he is.

Sovereign
05-08-2006, 11:37 AM
Wow I couldn't disagree more. In fact that is the polar opposite of the truth as I see it. Not to be flippant, but do you know who needs saving? Homeless men, depressed men, paraplegics etc... .
Is this mutually exclusive?

Girls like the bad boy because they seem like the kind of person that was needed in cave man days: warriors, hunters, people who weren't afraid instill fear into the hearts of other men.
Actually, current theory has it that men were the hunters because they were EXPENDABLE. Not because they were valued. Women's ability to give birth made them more valuable, you didn't need that many men. So men were sent out to hunt and go to war. Now this backfired, because weak men died, strong men survived and reproduced and eventually men had a lot more upper-body strength than women. Hence, why they began to dominate.

They were the alpha males. The beta males were the alpha males bitches, if you will. They went around offering to help alphas in any way they could to stay on their good side. Alpha males could afford to be dicks. Ever notice why everyone thinks their boss is a dick? Because he is.
Women are attracted to confidence, to a leader of men....not to assholes. Ask any girl and they will tell you that they hate the 'asshole' guy, but love the confident guy. Yet, many of them wind up with 'confident assholes'. Trust me they want to save them. And if you don't believe me, than just recall this line I am sure everyone here has heard:
"You just don't know him like I do!"
Now what, pray tell, do you think this means?

Bruce Ho
05-08-2006, 12:16 PM
i am also a sociopath.

Balthazar
05-08-2006, 12:33 PM
Is this mutually exclusive?
Actually, current theory has it that men were the hunters because they were EXPENDABLE. Not because they were valued. Women's ability to give birth made them more valuable, you didn't need that many men. So men were sent out to hunt and go to war. Now this backfired, because weak men died, strong men survived and reproduced and eventually men had a lot more upper-body strength than women. Hence, why they began to dominate.
Women are attracted to confidence, to a leader of men....not to assholes. Ask any girl and they will tell you that they hate the 'asshole' guy, but love the confident guy. Yet, many of them wind up with 'confident assholes'. Trust me they want to save them. And if you don't believe me, than just recall this line I am sure everyone here has heard:
"You just don't know him like I do!"
Now what, pray tell, do you think this means?
It's not mutually exclusive in the sense that there are distinct categories and emotions. The mind is one big supercomplicated bag of chemicals. But generally woman seek a man who can protect them, not whom they wish protect. They are attracted to wealth. They think, "now I'd really like to take that man out, show him a good time." They don't say, "Wow, that'd be cool if I could walk this man to his car and make sure he's safe." Men, normal, healthy men, do have these instincts.
And you must understand the difference between what women want in a husband, and what they want in a fuck. Studies, if you are so inclined to believe them, show that women are attracted to "bad-er" men during certain times of their menstral cycle and "nicer" men during others. (This doesn't mean that they are ever attracted to Mr. Rogers). This community is dedicated mostly to discovering what makes men "fuckable" not what makes them good husbands.
I don't know what "current theory" you are talking about, but every MM/ seduction community thing I've read purports that you must lead women. Take control of their reality etc. Much of the community stuff is opposed to academic theory, which, quite frankly does not want to hear anything suggesting that men dominate women, regardless of how effective that is.
Regarding the confidence vs. asshole debate. Many girls, particularly hot girls, admit to liking assholes. "I love assholes who are nice to me," is something I've heard frequently. All girls like confident men. The best men are confident assholes.
Matt Lauer and Dr. Phil are confident but way too nice to be a sexual fantasy. Tommy Lee, Brad Pitt in Fight Club these are confident assholes. David Letterman is not afraid to be a dick, that's why Drew Barrymore show him her tits. Jay Leno sucks up to his guests, that's why he is not respected by men or women with good taste. James Bond doesn't buy women flowers, or put his coat over a puddle so that women don't get their feet dirty, he kills people.
Women like assholes because they know that sometimes, often even, you must be an asshole to get things done, to preserve your genes. You must go to war. You must fire the underperforming employee with three adorable kids. You must lie to sell products. Rich people pollute the air, high school teachers adopt a highway.

LiquifiedOne
05-08-2006, 12:33 PM
I think the whole "bad boy" thing is much more simple. Girls love emotions...emotions of all types. Badboys take them through a greater range of emotions and usually with much more intensity than just being nice to them...which would be soooo boring.

Balthazar
05-08-2006, 12:44 PM
nothing is simple my friend

Sovereign
05-08-2006, 12:45 PM
It's not mutually exclusive in the sense that there are distinct categories and emotions. The mind is one big supercomplicated bag of chemicals. But generally woman seek a man who can protect them, not whom they wish protect. They are attracted to wealth. They think, "now I'd really like to take that man out, show him a good time." They don't say, "Wow, that'd be cool if I could walk this man to his car and make sure he's safe." Men, normal, healthy men, do have these instincts.
Agreed, but women like to think that they can emotionally heal damaged men, even while those men lead them.

And you must understand the difference between what women want in a husband, and what they want in a fuck. Studies, if you are so inclined to believe them, show that women are attracted to "bad-er" men during certain times of their menstral cycle and "nicer" men during others. (This doesn't mean that they are ever attracted to Mr. Rogers). This community is dedicated mostly to discovering what makes men "fuckable" not what makes them good husbands.
Understand that women act on an emotional level. This is why they will date a guy who isn't 'good looking' but is 'charming' and why you wouldn't date a charming warpig. And on an emotional level they want to 'nuture'.

I don't know what "current theory" you are talking about, but every MM/ seduction community thing I've read purports that you must lead women. Take control of their reality etc. Much of the community stuff is opposed to academic theory, which, quite frankly does not want to hear anything suggesting that men dominate women, regardless of how effective that is.
Agreed 100%

Regarding the confidence vs. asshole debate. Many girls, particularly hot girls, admit to liking assholes. "I love assholes who are nice to me," is something I've heard frequently. All girls like confident men. The best men are confident assholes.
All women like men who can take care of them, and who have their shit together, they do not all like assholes, only assholes they can change.

Matt Lauer and Dr. Phil are confident but way too nice to be a sexual fantasy. Tommy Lee, Brad Pitt in Fight Club these are confident assholes. David Letterman is not afraid to be a dick, that's why Drew Barrymore show him her tits. Jay Leno sucks up to his guests, that's why he is not respected by men or women with good taste. James Bond doesn't buy women flowers, or put his coat over a puddle so that women don't get their feet dirty, he kills people.
Women like assholes because they know that sometimes, often even, you must be an asshole to get things done, to preserve your genes. You must go to war. You must fire the underperforming employee with three adorable kids. You must lie to sell products. Rich people pollute the air, high school teachers adopt a highway.
Again this relates more to success than to an asshole. Women love mysterious men, confident men, successful men. And they also love DAMAGED men that they can nuture emotionally. That only THEY can reach.