Date Beautiful Women 4.2.1
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 38
Discuss sarging strippers at the Strippers and Hired Guns within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; Originally Posted by evan_essence That's basically what I meant about not watching. See, nothing personal ...
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    669
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence View Post
    That's basically what I meant about not watching. See, nothing personal but I doubt if I'd even come near you. I got pretty good at focusing on where I thought the odds were favorable. If you were putting out those vibes, I'd probably stay away and that's good because it saves us both the time and trouble.
    Yeah, that's expected. Some girls are there strictly for money, and it's pretty apparent who they are, so I'm not about wasting their time (or mine). If you hadn't been in a long term relationship, would you have been more likely to "socialize" at work (with the possibility of dating, regardless of how small), or did you draw a hard line between people you met at work and people you met outside the club?
    Dancers are better off working at work and socializing elsewhere. And quite frankly, you're better off moving any real social interaction outside an environment where that's a component of the on-the-job sales skills.
    Well, that's the idea: getting them out of the club so that regular game works like it's supposed to. Getting them to day2 has been pretty hit or miss, and I'm trying to figure out why.
    Guy A thinks it's okay to pay for the services as they're offered because it's quick and easy and all fantasy. Guy B thinks Guy A is a rube because Guy B pays less and gets actual sex out of the deal. Guy C thinks they're both tools for paying at all. Guy A thinks Guy B is a raincoater and Guy C is a cheapskate. And so it goes. Personally, I don't see the need for holier-than-thou criticism of any of it if you're somewhat realistic about what you're after and what you're getting.
    I think the point here is that this is a Mystery Method forum, and the thread is titled 'sarging strippers'. It says in plain English in quotes directly from Mystery in the VAH that the only close is an f-close, and that no one cares about what worked one time, it's all about what works consistently. The thread isn't titled "How to have fun at a strip club", so Guy A's advice is pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand, wouldn't you say?
    Incidentally, what do you say to this?
    if i wanted to go beyond the level of just cool as dude that comes to my club i don't believe it would be that difficult to do.
    That's either true or false, and he's talking about you, essentially, so what do you think?
    lucifer



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    sacramento/elk grove
    Age
    31
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    whew!!!!!!!!!!! Evan Essence I love you. ha ha ha ha ha.
    i never claimed to be MM and I still disagree with you about MM being only about F closing. Evan Essence well as much as i want to find something to say bad to be an asshole I just like you too much and you are right. He and I will just have to agree to disagree.
    Lucifer I am aware that strippers take their game outside of work with their customers. As far as prepaid phones well i never heard about that but maybe so. The girls at the club I frequent enjoy me and buy me drinks as well. Switch and I are cool with the DJ and he plays the music we want. We just have different methods to our maddesses. I don't mind kicking the girls a few bucks and you think it is pointless. I believe that fact that I respect the fact that they are at work and let them know that makes me different. The girls do buy us drinks along with the cocktail waitresses and the bartenders. And if the bartender does charge me the beverage is doctered up. ¥ou sarge with a soul purpose of sex where as I am different purposes like making friends to become pivots at other bars. But I will stand by my statement when I say if i wanted to cross the friend/custy line the offer would be more then accepted by the girls. You use MM I do something else. I have worked in the service industry dancing is just a different form of service and the tips help, so I feel for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence View Post
    Both of you guys should pull down your shorts, I'll get a ruler and we'll settle this quickly.
    P.S. Evan Essence, you know the rules...only if we go to the V.I.P. room, no free shows!!!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    Midwest
    Age
    37
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    If you hadn't been in a long term relationship, would you have been more likely to "socialize" at work (with the possibility of dating, regardless of how small), or did you draw a hard line between people you met at work and people you met outside the club?
    Ya know, even though I goofed around on the job a lot more back in the early days during college, I was never one to hook up with a club patron outside of the club out of romantic interests. So, yeah, I guess I've always had a hard line even when I was less focused on the money. It's not so much a disdain for all patrons as it is a steadfast shielding of my own privacy. I never ever wanted any club patron to know who I really am and get close to me. I've always worked about an hour's drive away from where I lived so I had my social life and work life in different locations, which reinforced my view of separation.
    In later years, I came to see that I made better money when I worked hard and smart. Duh. Another stripper once said it takes about five years for a stripper to really develop the attitudes and skills to become a full-fledged professional. I'd say that's about right, from my own experience. So PUAs probably will have more success concentrating on the newbies. They're getting absolutely no guidance from management nor mentoring from experienced girls these days, so they don't know what they're doing professionally anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    Well, that's the idea: getting them out of the club so that regular game works like it's supposed to. Getting them to day2 has been pretty hit or miss, and I'm trying to figure out why.
    Because every guy in the place wants to time bridge me to somewhere else. Therefore, the ruses to do so, be they superficial or a bit more sophisticated, make me cynical of every attempt to do so.
    Plus, we're strippers. We're spoiled and flaky because we're used to having it come easy and we don't have to be otherwise. If I don't bite or I say I'll come but don't make that time bridge, hey, something else will come along in a second. Same attitude you're supposed to have with us, we already got about you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    I think the point here is that this is a Mystery Method forum, and the thread is titled 'sarging strippers'. It says in plain English in quotes directly from Mystery in the VAH that the only close is an f-close, and that no one cares about what worked one time, it's all about what works consistently. The thread isn't titled "How to have fun at a strip club", so Guy A's advice is pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand, wouldn't you say?
    I see, you're a by-the-book kinda guy. And a "we must stay on topic at all times" sorta fellow. That's cool. But even the successful experts in the field say to adopt whatever works for you in the field. No, I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that alternatives are not desirable or acceptable to those who achieve what they want from them. I can relate to what piper's saying because I'm more about tweaking it to your liking as you go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    That's either true or false, and he's talking about you, essentially, so what do you think?
    I don't think I know for sure. I think you're obsessed with making things black and white. I do believe it's not typical for strippers to do the things he says they're doing for a couple bucks in tips. So there's something more going on there. Therefore, maybe he's right. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily mean he could parlay that into something more, so maybe you're right. He said he isn't really after that so there's no need for him to pursue it.
    I do believe he believes what he says, and I think that's valuable for his self confidence which is valuable for social interactions. I don't believe he's vastly delusional about it, nor is it a destructive position to be in (as compared to spending hundreds of dollars for dances while believing the dancer's falling for you). If he's dissatisfied with the outcome later, I don't believe he's the type who will whine about it. It's all a learning experience and he can start fresh any other place in the world. Bottom line, I don't think your assessment of it matters much if he's happy with it.
    -Ev

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    Midwest
    Age
    37
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by the piper View Post
    whew!!!!!!!!!!! Evan Essence I love you. ha ha ha ha ha.
    Aw, baby, that's sweet of you to say. I know you don't really mean it, but it's still flattering. Come here and let me give you a big ol' full-body-to-body hug. (Stripper sh*t alert. hahaha)
    Quote Originally Posted by the piper View Post
    Lucifer I am aware that strippers take their game outside of work with their customers. As far as prepaid phones well i never heard about that but maybe so.
    He is right about that. Number closes in a strip club don't mean jack. They're voice mailboxes with business intent. There's even a service on the Net now that allows free voice mailboxes to be set up with its own number, so there's no need to do a prepaid phone. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the practice of giving out a throw-away phone number spread out to be used by the general female populace.
    Quote Originally Posted by the piper View Post
    P.S. Evan Essence, you know the rules...only if we go to the V.I.P. room, no free shows!!!
    Careful, you'll prove Lucifer's right if you do that 'cause I'll leave you nothing but an AFC.
    -Ev

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    sacramento/elk grove
    Age
    31
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence View Post
    Careful, you'll prove Lucifer's right if you do that 'cause I'll leave you nothing but an AFC.
    -Ev
    um...you wouldn't be the one giving the show.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    Midwest
    Age
    37
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by the piper View Post
    um...you wouldn't be the one giving the show.
    That'd be great! After each dance, I'll ask if you'd like to do another. Then at the end of the set, I'll let you know what you owe me @ $20 per song.
    -Ev

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    669
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence View Post
    I see, you're a by-the-book kinda guy. And a "we must stay on topic at all times" sorta fellow. That's cool. But even the successful experts in the field say to adopt whatever works for you in the field. No, I'm sorry, I don't buy the idea that alternatives are not desirable or acceptable to those who achieve what they want from them. I can relate to what piper's saying because I'm more about tweaking it to your liking as you go.
    No, no, not at all. There's not even a book, really. In my view, the M3 model isn't a "how to pick up chicks" model, it's a "any time someone successfully picks up a chick, this is what happened" model. In other words, it's not a paint by numbers mona lisa, it's the real mona lisa with numbers written in after the fact so that later artists can see how it was done. There's no such thing as tweaking the M3 model, because what you do either works or it doesn't, and if it worked, it was M3. Call it what you will, but the way I see it, M3 is simply the most comprehensive outline of the steps involved in the beginning of a sexual relationship. To tweak "what works" is simply to do "what doesn't work."
    My issue was that we were talking about sarging strippers, and he's giving advice that doesn't help you sarge strippers. When I pointed it out he got defensive about how he doesn't want to close with strippers, but none of that is useful for the other people reading the thread who might be interested in an f-close. That's all.
    lucifer

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    Midwest
    Age
    37
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    No, no, not at all. There's not even a book, really. In my view, the M3 model isn't a "how to pick up chicks" model, it's a "any time someone successfully picks up a chick, this is what happened" model.
    This sounds like an argument over which came first, the chicken or the egg. Seems to me the system would be a combination of both reverse engineering actions that happened to work in a given situation and then using them again, and creating an idea from scratch and then testing it to see if it works. Also, there are equal parts of descriptive and prescriptive elements. Here's what worked in this situation (description), and we have reason to believe it might work again but there's no guarantee because of variables (room for modification), so try much the same thing in your situation (prescription).
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    In other words, it's not a paint by numbers mona lisa, it's the real mona lisa with numbers written in after the fact so that later artists can see how it was done. There's no such thing as tweaking the M3 model, because what you do either works or it doesn't, and if it worked, it was M3.
    I don't think it's that simple. Human psychology is more complex than analyzing the paint on a portrait. There are countless variables that aren't present in a scientific analysis of color spectrum. And quite frankly, Mona's an UG. Some guys don't even want to paint her. Or they'd modify the design to include a smile and cleavage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    Call it what you will, but the way I see it, M3 is simply the most comprehensive outline of the steps involved in the beginning of a sexual relationship. To tweak "what works" is simply to do "what doesn't work."
    To me, that's a perfect example of what I mean when I used the phrase by the book. Perhaps, since you took the phrase so literally, I should have said, that's too inflexible for some people. I think it ignores the fact that there's A) more than one way to reach a goal, and B) personal choice of alternative goals besides that of f-closing every chick you sarge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    My issue was that we were talking about sarging strippers, and he's giving advice that doesn't help you sarge strippers. When I pointed it out he got defensive about how he doesn't want to close with strippers,
    Okay, but to me, it sounded like you were proselytizing him. The idea that you must do it a precise way because nothing else will work or be as satisfying seems cultish to me. I simply find creative leeway more comforting as a human trait. But hey, I think I do understand the perspective you're outlining. You'd be a strict constructionist if we were arguing the Constitution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    but none of that is useful for the other people reading the thread who might be interested in an f-close. That's all.
    Reminds me of the saying, "There's nothing so overrated as F-Close and nothing so underrated as a Good Healthy Sh*t."
    -Ev
    Piper: Clean out your PM inbox. I can't send you a message because it says it's full to capacity.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    669
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence View Post
    This sounds like an argument over which came first, the chicken or the egg. Seems to me the system would be a combination of both reverse engineering actions that happened to work in a given situation and then using them again, and creating an idea from scratch and then testing it to see if it works. Also, there are equal parts of descriptive and prescriptive elements. Here's what worked in this situation (description), and we have reason to believe it might work again but there's no guarantee because of variables (room for modification), so try much the same thing in your situation (prescription).
    Then you're reading the VAH too literally. You're not supposed to open every set with jealous girlfriend, drop a neg and a time constraint, body rock, and then stack into a DHV story. The M3 method really just says "these are the things that are required (based on past experiences), and here are some examples of these things in context." Calibration is everything, and most of the questions that pop up on these forums are questions of calibration for particular situations. The different styles/methods are really just different starting points to get you calibrated and properly framed, but the underlying methodology is always the same. It is static (and quite abstract), despite the methods for satisfying the requirements being dynamic.
    I don't think it's that simple. Human psychology is more complex than analyzing the paint on a portrait. There are countless variables that aren't present in a scientific analysis of color spectrum. And quite frankly, Mona's an UG. Some guys don't even want to paint her. Or they'd modify the design to include a smile and cleavage.
    You're clearly not an artist, or at least not a painter.
    The mona lisa isn't about how hot the model was, it's about what is conveyed in the picture (her frame, if you will). And believe me, there are a million variables in accurately representing human skintones.
    it ignores the fact that there's A) more than one way to reach a goal, and B) personal choice of alternative goals besides that of f-closing every chick you sarge.
    The thing is, B is called "making friends", and even though there are a number of ways to reach any given goal, they all have to fulfill the basic requirements. In this case, you have to run A1-A3 and start C2 before you can time bridge a stripper out of the club. If that's not your goal, then you're not really trying to sarge them, cool for you, but that wasn't the question posed. If the previous posters had asked "How do I make friends with strippers?", this would've been a completely different conversation.
    Let me use an example. Let's say I went into a woodworking forum and asked how to make a cane rocking chair, and someone replied with "Well, first get some 3 inch rough hardwood and use a lathe to make the shapes..." But I don't want to make a hardwood chair, I want to make a cane chair. His answer was "Cane chairs suck anyway...". Fine, but not a useful answer to the question that was asked.
    Okay, but to me, it sounded like you were proselytizing him. The idea that you must do it a precise way because nothing else will work or be as satisfying seems cultish to me. I simply find creative leeway more comforting as a human trait. But hey, I think I do understand the perspective you're outlining.
    Really, I was trying to answer the previous posters' questions, and his answers, while probably valid for his goals, weren't valid for the goals stated.
    You'd be a strict constructionist if we were arguing the Constitution.
    That's a different discussion, but one I'd be happy to have off the forum.
    lucifer

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender:
    Location
    Midwest
    Age
    37
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    The different styles/methods are really just different starting points to get you calibrated and properly framed, but the underlying methodology is always the same. It is static (and quite abstract), despite the methods for satisfying the requirements being dynamic.
    I'm sorry, I'm not following you here at all. If you don't do the same things every time, it's dynamic. There are all kinds of field reports here from fairly experienced PUAs that indicate to me that it's dynamic. We even get more experienced PUAs complaining when a newbie comes in and cites some methodology that's a couple years out of date that he's mistaken in assuming it's static.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    You're clearly not an artist, or at least not a painter.
    No, not a painter. But strip tease artiste doesn't count? Okay, okay. I admit it's promoted as artistry only during legal arguments in court to preserve it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    The mona lisa isn't about how hot the model was, it's about what is conveyed in the picture (her frame, if you will). And believe me, there are a million variables in accurately representing human skintones.
    Well, I was using a bit o' humor to keep things civil. Nevertheless, being art, the Mona Lisa is many things to many people. However, unlike Mystery Method, there are no variables in a scientific measurement of the colors used within the painting, and unless you use the same numbers, you won't achieve duplication. But um, I've just reduced myself to arguing over the analogy rather than the original point. Not too productive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    The thing is, B is called "making friends", and even though there are a number of ways to reach any given goal, they all have to fulfill the basic requirements. In this case, you have to run A1-A3 and start C2 before you can time bridge a stripper out of the club. If that's not your goal, then you're not really trying to sarge them, cool for you, but that wasn't the question posed.
    Perhaps this is an issue of semantics. It's not sarging them to acquire social proof? It's not sarging them to acquire possible pivots? It's not sarging them to acquire overall experience? For that matter, if you get her home and she drops her thong and you see a giant Lucifer tattoo drawn with its mouth opening around her labia and you think, eh, I'm not into this so I'm gonna disengage, that wasn't really a sarge because you decided, f*ck it, I'm not f*cking it? (Um, Lucifer as in the Debbil, but come to think of it, if you saw a tat of you down there, that might be way creepier.)
    I really think you're out of the mainstream in your definition of the word compared to how it is commonly used in this forum. When you use MM principles to establish a situation in which strippers hang with you without being paid, and in which they buy you drinks, dude, that's an outcome that deviates enough from the norm, that I'd call it sarging them. (And if any dancers are reading this, please don't fall for this. If he won't buy a dance or a drink for you and you're not getting paid to sit there, move the heck on. It makes it harder for the other dancers when you to sit there goofing off on the job all night. Other customers wonder why they don't get the same free treatment.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    Let me use an example. Let's say I went into a woodworking forum and asked how to make a cane rocking chair, and someone replied with "Well, first get some 3 inch rough hardwood and use a lathe to make the shapes..." But I don't want to make a hardwood chair, I want to make a cane chair. His answer was "Cane chairs suck anyway...". Fine, but not a useful answer to the question that was asked.
    The problem with analogies is that, although they are a tool to visualize an abstract concept, they are not completely.. um.. analogous. That is, they are not the concept itself. And then we start arguing over chairs. Bottom line, we disagree about this statement: Interacting with women using MM is called sarging whether f-close is involved or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    Really, I was trying to answer the previous posters' questions, and his answers, while probably valid for his goals, weren't valid for the goals stated.
    Okay, point noted. I misinterpreted it as strutting your stuff and applying peer pressure. Which almost never goes on around here. My bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer214 View Post
    That's a different discussion, but one I'd be happy to have off the forum.
    Haha. Tempting. But I think you're just trying to time bridge me.
    -Ev

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  • Forum Rules



Facebook  Twitter