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11-25-2008, 12:24 PM #1
Never before revealed Nordic and European techniques - Pick up and Female PsychologyEuropean Seduction – Gaming, Women and Pick Up in the Nordics
By HiRoller and Mr M
(JOINT INSTRUCTOR ARTICLE)
Before we go into how to effectively game girls in the Nordics (i.e. Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden) and the details of what the differences are in seducing beautiful women in the Nordics compared to beautiful women in North America and other parts of the world, we should note that the basics of seduction, pick up and female psychology are the same wherever you are in the world. You will need to approach the girl, you will need to create attraction, qualify and the Emotional Progression Model still applies. Moreover, the basic attraction triggers (as outlined in Magic Bullets) are also relevant:
• Social Intuition
No matter where you go in the world, these features are attractive to women.
There are over 50 different countries in Europe, each with unique cultural, geographical and religious influences. This article will focus on the Nordics (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark). Unavoidably, there will be generalizations made which will not apply to all girls in the area. However, the observations are largely based on the authors’ comprehensive and combined experiences of picking up girls in various countries in Europe.
Also note that some of the advice in this article goes against some of the normally ingrained principles ‘game’. However, this is because the culture in Europe allows for quite a few deviations from the norm.
Nordic girls are typically quite open about their sexuality (relative to Eastern European girls). For many of these women, if they are attracted to you, then sex is not a big issue.
This often translates to fast lays and/or sexual adventurousness (see the threesome adventures that Project Rockstar had in Stockholm, for example). In line with this sexual adventurousness, we have found that Nordic girls are quite open to same night lays.
HiRoller can usually tell quite fast if a girl is open to a same night lay or not. The overriding presumption that you should have is that many girls out in Nordic clubs are. If a girl is out clubbing in the Nordics and she doesn’t have a boyfriend or some other logistical factor that might make it impossible for her to have sex on that specific night, it is highly likely that she would be receptive to a same night lay. As an example of a ‘litmus test’ that HiRoller uses, quite early in the conversation, HiRoller will often drop in a tease like ‘By the way, I think I saw your boyfriend kissing another girl on the dance floor’. At this point, the girl will let him know if she has a boyfriend or not. However, the real relevance is that you’ll get to know if she’s up for it even if she has a boyfriend by the tone of her response. If there is a guy that she’s in love with, she will make it clear that she cares about him in her answer, even if she gets that your question was more of a funny tease. If she laughs and tells you that she does not have a boyfriend, this makes things a lot easier. HiRoller will then make sure that she doesn’t have any ‘must do’s’ early the next day. This is important as it is less likely that she will be up for a same night lay if she needs to be at the airport picking up her parents at six in the morning. Of course sometimes you can talk her out of it, but sometimes the pull is impossible due to logistics.
One of the greatest things about the sexual freedom in the Nordics? More often than not, you can have a same night lay with a girl, have the time of your lives in bed and not expect her to feel any commitment to you for this. There is that sort of sexual freedom in the Nordics.
Bitch Shields are Naturally Higher
A large proportion of Nordic girls have quite high ‘bitch shields’ in bars and clubs. This does not mean that they do not want to sleep with you. Quite the opposite in fact. Given the fact that Nordic girls are more open with their sexuality (as established above), a higher bitch shield stems from the fact that no girl wants to be an easy catch or feel like a slut. However, once through the shield, the girls are in fact usually very open sexually – i.e. there is a smoother transition from sex from meeting.
Bitch shields do not get much worse than in the Nordics. You will seldom run into higher bitch shields anywhere in the world than with some of the most beautiful Nordic girls at high-end clubs. Sometimes it requires several minutes to get through their bitch shield and reach ‘hook point’. During that time, in the worst cases, you may not even get eye contact during the conversation. So be ready to plough and keep ploughing. For advanced tips on gaming beautiful girls in high-end clubs, check out the interview given by Mr M and Sheriff on High-End Club Game (http://www.lovesystems.com/audio/vol...e-mr-m-sheriff). Also, Mr M and Braddock’s marquee interview series on ‘How to Game 9s and 10s’ (http://www.lovesystems.com/audio/vol...-braddock-mr-m) has an entire section in which they go through ‘bitch shield’ responses.
Speaking English is a DHV
Being a foreigner who speaks English in continental Europe is actually a DHV. English is considered a good language to know and a fluent speaker can make girls insecure (as they cannot express themselves as well in English).
In addition, being a foreigner brings something more fun and exciting to her. It can in some circumstances almost automatically create attraction as there is a certain sexual appeal in being the ‘traveler’ or ‘vagabond’. Mr M recently mentioned that this was probably also an important attraction trigger to his famous sarge of the Celebrity Playboy Playmate: http://www.theattractionforums.com/f...-pictures.html). This ‘attraction trigger’ could be a topic for another entire article, but for now, suffice it to say that being a traveler means that you can actually get a lot of attraction for “free”.
Fashion has an Increased Importance
A lot of Nordic girls ‘thin slice’ (i.e. make split second judgments – a concept Mr M and Braddock delve into in their Social Circle Mastery seminars – see: http://www.lovesystems.com/training-...e-mastery.html) based on a guys fashion. Fashion is an extremely important part of Nordic club culture and conveys both status and social intuition (two attraction triggers). The Nordic regions in general are very fashion conscious. Consequently, Nordic girls put more emphasis on clothing than girls anywhere else in Europe or the US. This is especially the case in high end clubs. If a girl sees a guy that does not dress well, the guy will have a much harder time hitting on her. This is not to say that dress and clothing are everything, but they will improve your chances significantly.
Trust and Negging
Before learning how to successfully game in Europe, we would often make the mistake of negging a lot. What we discovered was that negs and teasing generally are almost always taken more seriously by European girls. In fact, the gentlest negs and teases will often be taken as an outright insult.
It is easier to get away with cocky behavior and teasing far more in the USA then in the Nordics. The important thing is to be aware that European girls are more likely to take what you say as a serious comment, even if it is supposed to be a joke. This happens particularly in the Nordics because there is less of a ‘tease’ and ‘joke’ culture and proper delivery is crucial to avoid misunderstanding by the girls. For example, if you tease in the USA, even if you look serious, you’ll most likely still get away with it as the girls will understand that you must be joking. However, in the Nordics, it is crucial to deliver the tease with a big smile on your face and even if you did this - there would still be some doubt as to whether you would get away with it as intended.
So should I stop teasing in the Nordics then?
No!! The key in the Nordics is to build up the funny, teasing “guy” frame. This is because in the USA, the girls are used to guys joking around frequently. Guys in the Nordics tend to be more “serious” (in a laid back kind of way) and that is usually what a girl initially expects when she get’s approached. As a foreigner this might not always apply as she can’t be sure what to expect. However, experience has shown us that starting with a neg or some hard teasing just won’t work as good here. A neg, in particular, may very well insult her and your initial teasing might make her feel stupid rather than attractive as you intended. However, the great thing is that when she buys into the fact that you are a funny guy that jokes and teases, you can create a lot of attraction, very quickly and easily for being so different from the “serious” guys.
As a side note, very few instructors hardcore ‘neg’ anymore, in any situation. Think about it. The concept of a neg occurs because you want to establish that you have higher value than her. There are two logical ways to do this - you can neg her and lower her value compared to yours or you can raise your own value higher compared to hers. Raising your value instead of pushing down on hers is inherently more effective, more positive and resonates more powerfully with high quality women. And the result is the same! This in particular applies in the Nordics and especially when it comes to 10s.
For example, HiRoller once met a Norwegian model and made a funny comment about her hair (it was set up in a special way). Now, in the USA, most of the girls would have responded by laughing or teasing back. The model took it as a serious statement, a real insult and almost slapped HiRoller before she left. We couldn’t believe it! Similar things happened to Mr M while the pair were learning how to pick up in Europe. So be careful with your teasing in the Nordics!
In summary, teasing is an extremely important attraction trigger and you should use it, but escalate the teasing slowly and be careful with the delivery when using the technique in the Nordics.
European Girls and their Natural Confidence to Escalate
A huge difference between European and Western women is that European women seldom have the natural confidence that American women have. Consequently, European girls are not usually as straightforward or confident as Americans. For example, while an American girl at a certain point would escalate and show heavy indications of interest in order to go for what she wants, a Nordic girl would be a lot more discreet about her desire and not show it. The lesson here? You need to expect to be the one escalating all the time, even in the face of indications of disinterest. This is a crucial aspect of seduction in the Nordics - as much as a girl would love to escalate, she just won’t do it, but she will be waiting / expecting for you to do it (despite not giving off any obvious signals that she wants it)!
Some guys give up before they reach the point and leave thinking that the girl is not attracted. It can be quite difficult psychologically to plough through a set when it appears for a long time that the girl is not interested. This is why your inner confidence and mindset is so important when picking up beautiful women in the Nordics. The Love Systems Inner Game Seminar (http://www.lovesystems.com/training-programs/inner-game), pioneered by Mr M and Braddock covers this and much more amazing inner game techniques and concepts.
Note that you may also have to put in additional effort while in qualification. Initially you will probably get very short answers (like one word answers) and it can take a while before she opens up to you and really tells you what she is good at, what she loves doing, etc.
Finally, American girls’ views on relationships, education and life are slightly different from European girls. American girls seem to be fussier about certain standards relating to the guys that they date when it comes to age, education and relative wealth. We have not noticed this as much in the Nordic countries. Women tend to be less money conscious. This can be explained by statistics that show that Nordic societies have much less inequality than in the USA – the gap between the rich and poor is smaller and everyone is entitled to free education which includes higher education.
That is the end of European Seduction Part 1: The Nordics. The article was jointly written by HiRoller and Mr M – two experts at seduction in Europe at Love Systems. There should be more articles coming up with information about gaming in different parts of Europe.
For more info about the instructors who wrote this article, see here:
HiRoller is a Love Systems instructor based in the Nordics, UK, Europe and his bio is attached here: http://www.lovesystems.com/HiRoller
Mr M is a Love Systems instructor based in the UK and Europe and his bio is attached here: http://www.lovesystems.com/mr-m
ABOUT MR M: The Man Behind Mr M - My Journey to Become Better With Women
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READING TO IMPROVE YOUR ABILITY WITH WOMEN:
• How to Pick Up A Celebrity Playboy Playmate - field report WITH PICTURES!
• ACHIEVING SOCIAL DOMINANCE: How To Become The Alpha Male In Social Situations
• The Definitive Guide to Qualification
• [ame=http://www.theattractionforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67846]Project Rockstar - How to Live Like a Rockstar[/ame] (read the posts by the Rockstars - great information)
• Revealing the Social Matrix Part 1: The Structure of Your Social Life
• Revealing the Social Matrix Part 2: The Hidden Method for Social Circle Pick Ups
• DaHunter's Guide to Social Circle Game
SELECTED BOOTCAMP REVIEWS: LOS ANGELES BOOTCAMP - LONDON BOOTCAMP - NEW YORK BOOTCAMP
11-25-2008, 01:46 PM #2
Awesome, im going to nordic countries :P
Besides that, I Can speak a little bit of Norwegian
11-25-2008, 02:37 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Awesome im norwegian!
11-25-2008, 02:50 PM #4
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
I met two norwegians in Dublin last weekend and number closed. It helped that I was an cocky prick, was really dressed up and negged the shit out of one and got the number off her friend, but great social proofing as their male friend was also in my college, also know a tiny bit of norwegian, showing them around, and I ran the set for around 10 mins.
I also had about half a bottle of rum on board
I'm not entirely sure about the English being as much a DHV in Norway as other places. The Norwegians all have perfect English, in my experience. However, in central europe e.g., Germany, it's a definite DHV, as is actually having fun
11-25-2008, 03:33 PM #5
I still want to go to Sweden sometime, I've heard only things on it!
From what I know, Nordic girls are drinkers. They like to drink and can do it a lot. Is there a different way to game those type of girls too up there?
11-26-2008, 01:55 PM #6
From my expirience in swedish girls its that I close em (not just phone number) faster than any other girls I ve met. Some Pointers of my expirience in this particular country are the following:
- Its true I almost never neg em but I do make fun of them lightly (You looked so serious before I thought you were spying on someone lol).
- They love witty banter.
- A reason for the above is that (as they told me at least) is that many swedish guys are very submissive and they look for someone to take control and be a dominant man.
- The only girls I gamed from sweden are 9 and 10s. So no idea whats going on with other girls.
- I transitioned from my opener (I cant share sorry) to kissing most of the girls i met from sweden in 30-40 minutes tops. Indeed its easy to get em to sleep with you.
- Be careful and I mean very careful because these girls can make u buy them a drink in ablink of the eye. I was with some friends in a bar and a girl came up to us and started talking. That girl had like 5-6 other girl friends. Most of my friends started buying them drinks (they never do that lol) and me and another friend stayed away talking with each other. When we got opened we got past that easily (again I cant say how:P). And then the whole group had our attention. If you think American girls can ask for drinks then you havent seen these girls.
- Swedish girls are beautiful. If you are a guy that does compliment or looks even if it comes from a confident stage of you in the beginning it will make you fail miserably.
- Compliment their personality, this works great.
- Foreigners are hot for their standards especially dark skin and/or dark hair.
- With these girls if you are dominant in bed they ll be yours forever. If you are into slave/master themes in bed some like it a lot. I swear I had girls stalking me.
- Use a disqualifier in the beginning. This was half my game with these girls.
- Also introduce a teaching image in her mind. (mystery's 27000 days and all your dreams can become real worked great)
- Personally I used hard qualification when I knew I had attraction. THings like tell me 3 things that would make me want to get to know you better along with beauty destroyer is gold.
- Dont get friggin scared (Oh my god she is so beautiful, why would she wanna sleep with me.) Trust me they are the most insecure girls I ve met in my life. As Casanova said find what they miss and give it to them.
- Establish kino fast. I wont go into details but if they see you are holding back in her mind u are a pussy. DOnt do it.
- MOst of the time I didnt even need a wing. For some reason her friends play with eye code and let her be. So isolation wont be a problem. If you talk only the two of u and a friend comes in and stayes u screwd up somewhere. (I personally know that since they eye code come here so they can make me leave, had that problem in the beginning.)
- Escalate fast. Dont start telling 100 stories and 50 routines. You dont need more than 1-2 of these. Sometimes none at all.
- To answer SirSlick these girls drink... a lot. So there is no way you can get em drunk before you are throwing up all over the place. These girls are machines. SUre you can get em drunk but you wont be around to tell the story lol.
- Also duality. Its ok to be dominant but after the kiss let her see that u care.
I cant remember something else so these will be ok for now.[B]
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11-26-2008, 04:49 PM #7
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
Very good article and comments.
Especially about bitch shield and escalating, tough to get in BUT once youre in YOURE IN!
11-27-2008, 12:23 AM #8
This makes me want to go to sweden!Always leave her better off than you found her
11-30-2008, 04:47 AM #9
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Also note that bitch shields vary in different places in sweden. Stockholm has much higher bitch shields (more snobby) than Göteborg (more friendly). Even people from stockholm will admit this. So choose which city works best for you.
11-30-2008, 06:00 PM #10
Dude that is so true! Amazing post.
I observed this behavior when I was fucking around with a Finish girl.
This also partially true to Russian and Ukrainian girls.