How to improve from good to REALLY good? Suggestions wanted

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  1. #1

    How to improve from good to REALLY good? Suggestions wanted

    I'd like suggestions on how to improve my game from an intermediate to an extreme level.

    I have decent skills already. I can cold-approach open any group, day or night. I can get phone numbers with no problem, and sleep with some percentage of them. I consistently get same-night lays from bars and clubs, even sarging alone with zero social connections in cities I don't know. I've managed a few same-day lays from day-time pickups. And I've built longer-term relationships in the way I want with the girls I choose, wonderful girls that I really value.

    My friends all think I'm great at pick-up; they're always surprised because I'm below-average looks, am not tall and don't have a good body, and I get more and better girls than my (all better-looking) friends. From the community, I've met up with puas from different areas, and I usually compare favorably to what I've seen out there. And it's even happened a few times in the last year that guys in bars/clubs approach me, tell me they admire my skill, and ask me for p.u. tips.

    But I'm not at all satisfied with my skills and my results. I guess I'm good enough compared to what I've seen, but in my view, I'm not nearly good enough and have huge room to improve. I'm 30 now, and I want to get good now so I can enjoy it for a few years before settling down with a white picket fence. ;-)

    Here are my goals and where I feel I'm not achieving what I want:

    - I want ultra-high quality-looks girls, 18-24. The quality of the girls I get looks-wise is good, sometimes very good, but it's not really at the level I want. I realize that the type of girls I want is the hardest; in my experience, as I increase the age and/or decrease the quality of the girls, it's easier. But I don't want the easy path any more; I want to take the challenge and get the great quality!

    - I want to improve my game to the point that I can target a specific girl in a nightlife scene and have a good chance of getting her, rather than flirt around with 20 girls and take the one that responds. I feel I have a huge failure rate. I don't know my own rate, and have no idea what is "normal", but talking to 15-30 girls to sleep with 1 makes me feel that I'm not truly in control of which girls I get. I realize the abundance mentality is a huge part of successful pick-up, and obviously even the ultimate pua will get rejected more than he'll succeed, but I'd like to control my own destiny more. And this is particularly important for the very high quality girls I want; the reality is that they just aren't that many in even the best big-city clubs, so there's just not a lot of room for error. And my game just isn't tight enough for that... not yet.

    - I want to build different styles into my game, and learn to better calibrate which style to use at which time. It's not some huge revolutionary insight to say this, but every girl is an individual, and every situation is different; one style could work well at one time while it'd be horrible at another. And mastering different styles, knowing how to calibrate better, is critical to getting my game tight enough that I can select the girls I want, rather than just taking what I get.

    - I'm primarily interested in cold-approach nighttime situations. I realize one solution - and probably a very effective one - is to build a massive social network in the big cities, roll into clubs with 20 girls promoter-style, vip it up to the max, etc... but I don't want that. I've done it twice with friends who are connected in that way, and I got successes quite easily, but it wasn't fun for me. I really enjoy the successes from zero social-connections cold-approaches so much more than social circle or social proof lays. The satisfaction I get from the challenge is huge.

    - The only goal is the lay with the girl I want. I couldn't care less about impressing guys with my pu skills, getting lots of number closes, making out with 10 girls in a club in one night, etc.

    - I don't want to lie to achieve my goals. I've seen lotsa pu guys out there - including some instructors I've bumped into running bootcamps - who bust out with hilarious bullshit about themselves (movie producer, model agent, personal jet planes, pro athlete, you get the idea) in order to get the girl. Not my thing. Nuff said.


    For the last 6 months, I've tried different things, played around with different techniques, talked to various puas, lots of stuff... but I haven't improved. Some guys keep improving on their own, but it's not been the case for me any more. There's lots of things where I'm good enough but I know I can improve - from body language to conversation/storytelling technique to sexual framing to dealing with Amogs - and there's probably lots of other stuff I could improve that I don't even realize, but I've plateaued. I don't mind running thousands more sets (I love it, actually), but doing them over and over with no improvements has become an exercise in futility.

    So I'm looking for suggestions on how to take my game to the next level.

    I'm pretty well-versed on all the theory out there. I've looked at dozens of gurus, products, seminars, bootcamps, potential 1-on-1s, but it's tough to cut through the marketing to find what's right for me.

    Also, it seems that many of the bootcamps, seminars, etc, out there are geared to beginners, helping them overcome approach anxiety, etc. Which is understandable; that's where the bulk of potential clients lies. While out in bars and clubs over the last few years, I've run into several bootcamps from different companies in action, and it's great to see new guys get pushed into sets, learn how to number close, but I'm beyond that. I've also tried to evaluate the instructors. It's really hard to judge based only on the approach and first few minutes (getting a number close or kiss close is meaningless, it's only about the final lay and I have no idea how they do there), but from what I've seen, a few of the instructors seem to have tight game, while most have been OK but nothing that I don't think I can already do myself.

    I am extremely, extremely motivated and am willing to consider anything, anywhere... literally. I'm realistic: there's no quick fix, particularly at my current level and given my really lofty goals. But I'm determined to do everything I can and kick-start myself in the right direction, make lots of gradual improvements, and get to extreme tight game!

    I'd really appreciate any ideas, suggestions, feedback, from anyone out there at any level - professionals, great puas, pu students, guys that know someone who's really good, guys who are/were in similar situations...anyone.

    I'm at: chanks50 at gmail dot com.

    Thanks.



  2. As with any sport, you have to push yourself out of your comfort zone to progress. Challenging your friends and fellow PUAs. Try the stuff they have you do on "Keys to the VIP Room" - "You have 2 minutes to get a girl's phone number", or "You must open a set with a neg".

  3. damn, sounds like you hit the pennacle of PUA - anything beyond what you are describing and you need to seriously develop your health/wealth and roll with tight friendship circles to show you are a tribal leader, running game only gets you so far imo

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    I am by no means near your level, so take my advice like you want
    I don't think a bootcamp can help you, because you already have the skills to pull SNLs. Probably the best thing would be to get a 1on1 with an experienced instructor.

    You already pointed out what you want to work on. Set small goals and that way you become better. Eventually you want to become that good that you only have to open max. 5 sets a night before you pull, like CaptainJack and Sinn do. They both keep working at their game and trying to innovate all the time.

    Sinn is doing 1on1 again, I like Braddock and El Topo. I haven't had 1on1 with them (I do have a routine stack of ET) but I've talked to them and I find to get along really well with them. Plus they have the skills to back it up. They can look at your game and then tweak it, so everything is totally customized for you.

  5. #5

    "but talking to 15-30 girls to sleep with 1 makes me feel that I'm not truly in control of which girls I get"

    cajun said in keys to the vip that he has a 80% sucess rate.. no idea if its true but he didnt fail once in the show.

    get a 1on1 or phone consulatation... thats what they are for AND improve your qualities (status, wealth,...) or start to lie : P.

    you say you dont have a good body? .. get one, it isnt difficult.

  6. #6

    Thanks for your responses on this forum, guys, and to the people who've emailed me as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Dude View Post
    damn, sounds like you hit the pennacle of PUA
    Thanks, Happy Dude, but I'm really not at the pinnacle. I've definitely improved. When I started out several years ago, I was loved by my mom, my dog, and my 70-y.o dentist, but I wasn't getting booty anywhere. Now I am.

    But it's like getting good enough to play ball, but then getting stuck in the minors. I can see the big-league parks, but I've plateaued and am just not making the improvements to get into the majors!

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Dude View Post
    anything beyond what you are describing and you need to seriously develop your health/wealth and roll with tight friendship circles to show you are a tribal leader, running game only gets you so far imo
    IMHO, no. I really, truly believe in my core that it's possible to get into the big leagues solely on awesome skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDuke6 View Post
    Try the stuff they have you do on "Keys to the VIP Room" - "You have 2 minutes to get a girl's phone number", or "You must open a set with a neg".
    Classic. PUA fieldwork exercises. I LOVE it!

    Quote Originally Posted by frsk View Post
    cajun said in keys to the vip that he has a 80% sucess rate.. no idea if its true but he didnt fail once in the show.
    He looks great on that show, awesome body language, frame control, the works (altho he barely smiles, guess everyone's different). But no friggin way that he can fuck 80% of the girls he cold approaches in a bar/club. I didn't hear him say that, and he seems pretty on the level so I'd be surprised if he really claimed that... but anyone who does is full of it. Dude, Brad Pitt or whoever the hottie-du-jour is couldn't hit even near .800, i'd be impressed by 30%.



    Quote Originally Posted by frsk View Post
    you say you dont have a good body? .. get one, it isnt difficult.
    Haha, agree. I'm in good shape, work out, and have made my body about as good as it's going to get (without roids, I guess). I just mean that I don't have natural great body, broad shoulders, adonis figure, etc; I'm never going to have girls approaching me because of my body. But good game trumps that anyway! ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlick View Post
    I am by no means near your level, so take my advice like you want
    Thanks. I just read your FR where you almost got your first SNL. Sounds like you're doing well for yourself there, you're gonna be the mack daddy very soon at the rate you're going. [Btw, you could've tried getting a friend to wing the cb friend, or maybe try to befriend the friend more or even split them before getting in the car... but fwiw, me, in that situation why bother with logistics, I would've just taken her to the bathroom and fucked her brains out. :-) ]

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlick View Post
    Eventually you want to become that good that you only have to open max. 5 sets a night before you pull, like CaptainJack and Sinn do.
    I guess it depends on what type of sets you're going for. If it's 5 legit high-quality targets, not pre-selected for obvious signs of easy snl, then 1 out of 5 is a great ratio!

    Quote Originally Posted by SirSlick View Post
    Probably the best thing would be to get a 1on1 with an experienced instructor. Sinn is doing 1on1 again, I like Braddock and El Topo. I haven't had 1on1 with them (I do have a routine stack of ET) but I've talked to them and I find to get along really well with them. Plus they have the skills to back it up. They can look at your game and then tweak it, so everything is totally customized for you.
    Thanks, I've definitely thought about 1-1s, just gotta figure out who, as there are many many many guru guys out there. I'll check into it.

    Any suggestions, pop me a note. I'm at: chanks50 at gmail dot com.

  7. #7

    just checked .. it is in the introduction and he says 95% (4:00). but it doesnt really matter if it is true ..even with 50%.. just shows that you certainly in theory have room to improve.

    and to be honest i wouldnt smile too much when approaching.. too often it comes over as rapport seeking and not at all confident.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by frsk View Post
    just checked .. it is in the introduction and he says 95% (4:00). but it doesnt really matter if it is true ..even with 50%.. just shows that you certainly in theory have room to improve.
    95% success rate doesn't mean I fuck 95% of the women I talk to in a bar, it means that I can create attraction with 95% of the women that I talk to in a bar.
    Derek Cajun
    -------------------------------------------------

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  9. #9

    right.. i certainly hope that nobody does.
    never meant it like that. wasnt precise enough in my first reply.

  10. #10

    If you want to always lay the girl, your approaching in the wrong place. In cold approach their are a lot obstacles to overcome. Here are 2 major ones IMO:

    The 1st problem is your total strangers you need to make her comfortable with you. Just because you have attraction and IOIs doesnt mean she is comfortable with you. (enough to have sex with you, that is) I think cajun can agree with me on this. Thats why he can get attraction farly easy, but still cant close all those women.

    The 2nd problem is its like a crap shot opening women, you never know what you will get. Classic PUA teaching say that with words you will be able to make any girl have sex with you. But you should have realized by now that most people aren't gonna be compatible with you.

    Also remember PUA teaching says to play the field, open as many sets because with more sets you will open, the more closes you will have. Unfortantly this is also gonna mean your failure rate will be super high. I mean if you open 100 sets and sleep with 3 of them, your gonna have tripe the closes of a person who opens 3 sets and sleeps with 1 girl. But at the same time that person who only opened 3 sets have 10x the close rate as you.

    If you wanna have a high close rate, that is sleep with every or almost every women you open. Your gonna have to find a way of starting the interaction with some comfort and having a way to meet women who have already been screened. This is why social circle gonna give you a lot more consistent game. If you wanna relay on cold approach you gotta relize that the nature of beast is gonna mean your gonna fail a lot.

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