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12-07-2007, 03:06 PM #1
I am posting this in the relationships section because I think it most heavily applies to LTRs.
The Difficult Act of Giving A Girl Space
One of the most difficult things to do is to give a girl the space she needs to not feel smothered by you. We all know that it is essentially impossible to prevent a woman from cheating on you. The emotional roller coaster that is the life of a woman provides men with some very difficult tasks. Among these tasks is the ability to keep a woman invested in the relationship and stable in her attraction to be a part of your life. Learning game makes it even more apparent to me that when engaged in a opportune senario, most girls (if not all) are voulnerable to disloyal temptations. In my humble opinion, this is heavily caused by a womans drive/need to validate herself and lack of ability (in most women) to control her emotions.
So what can you do to prevent another guy from triggering those emotional moments that cause her to forget her associations with you? Nothing. You absolutely cannot shelter a woman into social slavery. This is something that I was certainly guilty of in the past. It is the age old arguement between lovers where the jealously and insecurities take over and each person tries to instill limitations as to the social functions that each other may attend and to with whom. I remember throwing fit after fit when my LTR wanted to have nights out with her girlfriends. I knew guys would be hitting on them. And I knew that they were looking for male attention. For the longest time this caused issues with my inner game. I wondered, what am I doing that is not enough for her? Isn't my validation all she needs? And lately I have questioned the ideals behind why I tried to create the environment for my significant other in the first place. I have learned that woman need constant validation from both men and women alike. And there is no one person that can provide another with enough validation to sustain a healthy level of confidence and satisfaction in todays society.
Sheltering a woman can have some devestating consequences. For one, you are lowering your own value by telegraphing insecurity and neediness. This could eventually add fuel to the fire. She will become increasingly less attracted to you and it will only make for an easier theft by another male.
But lets look at this from a different angle. Sometimes it is very hard to reason with yourself a strong enough arguement to put her well being before yours. By sheltering someone, your preventing them from living the fullfilling life that they desire. Your limiting their self-validation and causing their social skillset to melt away slowly. By all means, woman are hardwired to satisfy themselves by satisfying a male, but to use this reasoning to shelter her is immoral. Many guys have the attitude "well if she doesn't like it, theres 11 million others out there..". And they will put there foot down to force a woman to comply. Your selfishly starving the person you may care about most. Starving her from living the best life possible for her. What kind of way is that to treat someone you love?
Most importantly, you might put your foot down and eliminate 95% of the situations where she may be coersed to be unfaithful. But what happens during that last 5%? Your fucking yourself. Because she will be less prepared to exhibit emotional control, due to her lack of experience being confronted with these temptations. And sheltered women usually have LSE and partake in extreme validation seeking behaviors, right?
Its the same principle that parents make mistakes on when raising children. They shelter the children from the world out of fear of curruption. The result is a difficult adaptation when the child is finally released to his own freewill. Remember that home school kid aquaintance of yours that suffers from anti-social behavior and poor social calibration? That is what your doing to your LTR by choking her freewill and social freedom out of her.
By being passive about her desires to satisfy herself, I've noticed that it actually causes a girl's inner game to become more stable. She will seek validation less. For the most part, I think girls need to get hit on every now and then, just to shut up that little self-conscious person inside of them. Many girls don't cheat, and I think its because they don't feel the need to. Enough guys hit on them to shut up that little person inside of them. So they don't feel the need to take it to the extreme of cheating. For this reason, I have chosen to give my girls all the freedom they want to explore what they wish. I am not condoning disloyalty. But I am no longer going to try and stand in the way when a stampede of guys try for her affection.
I doubt this will prevent her from cheating entirely. But I think its the only thing a guy can really do to maintain a healthy lifestyle for her as well as minimize her need to be placed in situations where men are validating her.
I hope this is helpful for all my jealous friends out there. I am also writing this as a reminder to myself, to back off, and let her live her life.
If anyone has anything to add or dispute, please do, I look forward to any thoughts on this issue no matter how tangent.
12-07-2007, 04:14 PM #2
This is a great post! And I think it completely applies to guys as well as to girls. I have a hard time letting a guy "roam around" in a relationship (though I try to give him as much freedom as I can, my emotions sometimes get in the way). I love the part about letting your partner live a fulfilling life and not stifling him(her). My only question is: where do you set the boundaries? Are there boundaries at all? I know I would not be ok with my bf kissing or f*cking other girls. So how do you draw the line?
12-07-2007, 08:02 PM #3
Thanks Rogue. I had a feeling women on this forum would appreciate it. I do want to make one thing clear though. I am not disputing that a man needs to take the reigns and own control in general, in order to keep the woman feeling appreciative of his value. And I don't mean by being a control freak or anything. Just in general, we all agree that women desire alpha males and that an alpha male would have a stronger frame that would keep her misbehaviors at bay. My thoughts in my original post may sound sort of incorrectly framed, as if my goal in general is to satisfy the woman and give her everything she needs. On the contrary. My main point I want to make is that giving a person space is simply a requirement of any long lasting relationship. Guys and girls in general. So I just wanted to clear that up so my original post doesn't give off the wrong impression of beta male tendancies.
With that said, I absolutely think it is necessary to punish bad behavior. Why this is relevent to this conversation is because I don't think a girl wanting to feel validated by more then one guy is necessarily a bad behavior. When she crosses the line and is non-loyal or cheats by allowing physical activity to transpire, that is not acceptable to me. But her desire to be hit on or have guys drool over her is nothing to be ashamed of. After all, (referance to Mystery's theories) we are designed to live in a "Tribe" of 50 people (25 male/25 female). So trying to confine your woman to her tee-pee is removing her from the very lifestyle that she is hardwired to live in. She will always feel like she is missing something, and fantasize about freedom and attention elsewhere. That is why I think its a must to let your girl run free for the most part so that she can get the quick fix she needs of male attention, in order to prevent her from getting extreme and going beyond just attention (physical activity and/or sex). Preventing a girl from getting this attention I am talking about IMO only adds to the problem of disloyalty and her lust for validation.
To give you my opinionish answer to your question: I think you have to draw the line with what is reasonable. Like I mentioned above, wanting attention from other guys is not really that crazy of an idea. It actually seems like more of a requirement. The problem is, with any temptation there is the risk of lacking self control. So IMO, you need to pair with a mate who has similar inner game to your own with the intuition to determine what is fair and acceptable and what is selfish and greedy. There is no way to prevent each other from cheating. Just be on the same page with each other. Not trust. I don't rely on trust. I think trust is a wierd word that has clouded value. I rely on a girls ability to do things that make me feel comfortable with her being let loose. She isn't flakey, she answers when I call, she calls me just to say that she loves me and is having fun and loves the fact that I let her do these things. Its easy to tell when people are being dishonest and shady. Just be proactive in showing your significant other that you do care and that everything is all good and you should be fine. If he even doesn't accept your freedom then, then well.. I dunno what to tell you. He probably falls into the catagory of guys that I described above who are overly controlling cuz of insecurity..
geez I feel like theres me sitting in a room full of estrogen!! Wheres my boys at to throw some opinions in there?
(therouge ur almost awesome btw, thanks for ur reply, i value ur opinions on this forum, keep it up)
12-07-2007, 09:57 PM #4
Good post dude...
12-07-2007, 11:45 PM #5
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- Nov 2007
Great post. You really explained the insecurity issue well.
I do think there are a few things you can do to help reduce the cheating risk:
1) Maintain your status as a cool guy/alpha male
2) Find a way to treat your gf in a way that she thinks no one else will treat her, and set up a clear reward and punishment system: as long as she is faithful, you will continue to rock her world, but if she is, say, found to be kissing another dude or anything like that, the consequences will be so severe that it will not be worth the risk.
(I can elaborate on this more if anyone's interested)
Oh- and I also had a question- what do you think constitutes cheating? I would say kissing another guy is the threshold of cheating, but what say you?
12-09-2007, 02:22 AM #6
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- Jan 2007
Great post, just what I was looking for. I've been in that position lately with my current LTR even though I know I shouldn't do it and is contra productive. Sometimes emotions get on the way too much. Gotta remember to give my girl space and freedom to do what she wants within the boundaries that we have talked about without feeling jealous or insecure, not easy sometimes though. One question I have that relates to this is the amount of time you should spend with your partner let's say on a weekly basis so that she doesn't feel too overwhelmed with you and is healthier for the relationship? And how you handle that communication of knowing when she needs space or not?
12-10-2007, 10:21 AM #7
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- Nov 2007
Bjswift, one of the best posts I've read so far. You are really helping a lot of guys with this.
Thanks for your insight man.
P.S. You write well~
12-10-2007, 02:15 PM #8
Well I read something that really resonated with me and I'll pass it along to you. In one of Dahunter's posts he says to "give her the gift of missing you." What I try to make sure is that if me and a girl are spending a lot of time together is to make sure that it is positive time spent, otherwise I'd rather she was missing me. Meaning we are having a great time together and really enjoying each other's company. I think you run into the problem of it being too often when the enthusiasm level with each other is fading. When your hanging out with each other for the sake of not being alone is also a no-no. Even if your chillin by yourself and bored to death.. Its better then chillin with her and bored to death. I try to do something atleast once every day I'm with her that is memorable, usually its some kind of joke that we share where we can't stop laughing about. That way she will think back on that time spent together and actually have something to remember. ("that was funny..").
By giving a girl space, I mean by letting her be free to hang out with her friends and enjoy herself away from you. This does not mean that you should assume she needs space. If you follow the response to your question above, by giving her the gift of missing you, then thats all the space you should be pro-actively giving her. Don't sit around and be like, umm does she need space? Giving a girl space really means just not getting in her way when the opportunity for her arises (ie her friends are going out and she wants to tag along). Usually this means in an environment where there are other guys around to interact with and not you.
One thing I try and do is be the one who wants space first. Give her space by reversing it on her. Tell her your going out and be like "why don't u call ur friends and see what they're doing?". Or, if she mentions first that she is going out, I'll say "sweet, I was getting sick of you anyways ..." (jokingly) and then I'll switch and be very enthusiastic about it. "Right on, what kinda trouble are you and the girls cookin up for tonight?" (sarchastically) and when replies just be like "wow that sounds like fun! I went there bla bla bla and it was a blast! You guys are gonna love it!"
I try to be very positive about her wanting to go out. This is also helps because when she is with her girlfriends, they are gonna talk about how cool you were about her going out. Most boyfriends will bitch and whine about letting their girls out and the girls will bitch to each other about it.
her friend: I was lucky I was able to come out tonight.. Tim was being such a jerk..
your GF: Really? My man was pretty cool about it.
her friend: Your so lucky! He is such a great guy!
Your going to win her GF's approval and beyond. Especially once you have that reputation as the cool BF, they will all envy her and constantly remind her how lucky she is and how hard it is to find good guys. Thats the optimum situation, cuz now your relationship has a measurable value. She is automatically more invested because her having you, makes her have more value in her friends eyes. So inherently, if she were to leave you, she would be lowering her value in the eyes of her peers. Thus she is less likely to do things that would risk losing you. AND when you show her willingness to walk away in the future when her behavior is bad, then you'll have more ammunition.
Anyhow, I'm kinda rambling now but I think the only space you should be pro-actively giving a girl, is enough space to make sure the majority of your time spent together is positive and ethusiastic. I wouldn't "communicate" anything about space with a girl either. Under no circumstances should you say something like "am I giving you enough space?". Cuz that assumes a frame where she is the prize and your just trying to satisfy her. If you think she needs space, just make it seem like to her that YOU are the one that wants space.
hope that answers your question
12-10-2007, 02:27 PM #9
I would consider cheating anything that is disloyal to me that constitutes an immediate termination of the relationship or anything that causes my frame to become weak on an extreme level where I have no choice but to save my frame by ending the relationship.
haha I like the quote I read on here somewhere WWJWD "what would john wayne do?"
12-22-2007, 06:41 PM #10
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- Sep 2007
Ok my girl wants to go out and hang out with her "guy" friends.. Next thing i know she tells me the guy she was with tried to kiss her and she turned and gave him a cheek instead ? She says they do a little flirting.. what do i do ?