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10-31-2007, 10:58 PM #1
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- Oct 2007
This is not just yet another one-itis post.
Can a girl be not interested in relationships at all?
There is this very close friend of mine. She's a SHB, kind a crazy but pure fun. We've been spending like 20 hours a week together dancing for the last 6 months, not including the time Skyping etc. However even in Skype, it's pretty much all about dancing and what we're busy with, we don't talk much (if ever) about what we're feeling.
Since I missed the window of opportunity and we became just close friends (in fact I for some time intended to keep it that way to not lose this great dancing partner!). I'm aware of One-Itis etc., and so I'm actively working on other girls (and she ought to have seen me kiss- and number-close), but I'm still just a rAFC. This question is NOT going to be "how do I get her to love me", but I'm somewhat trying to figure out what's going on.
Since we're spending so much time together and are used to dance really close and slow (e.g. Blues) as well as fast and energetic (including show dancing), we're really used to touching and communicating with the body. People tend to assume we're a couple when they see us. In fact, people just can't believe we aren't, and keep on telling us it's going to happen sometime. I do not agree, and I've recently verified the LJBF state.
However, I've never seen her flirt with anybody; she immediately blocks off any approaches and I've never seen her even just showing interest (including towards girls or me). She doesn't seem to be interested in having any relationship at all. But can this actually be? What's wrong with her?
It quite confuses me to have this friendship which is very physical (lots of touching due to dancing; it probably boils down to a couple of hours a week being chest-to-chest, cheek-to-cheek ) but completely to be taken non-sexual. (For the AFCs hanging around here: start dancing. This will help you relax when being with women and raise your social status!) On one hand we're spending most of our free time together, and there is a very high level of trust and rapport (I get good-night skype messages every other day), on the other hand we're not taking it further, neither into a 'real' relationship nor a "soul buddy" (read: full-blown 'nice guy' / typical AFC) direction.
Oh, and don't bother to advise me to just drop that friendship - she's the best dance partner I've had so far. I'm fine with her staying just a friend; the best way out is just for me to pick up other girls. What I'm wondering about is her situation, how comes she doesn't seem to be looking for a relationship?
Friend-girls have been suggesting she might be into me (spending so much time with me) but just not be ready for a relationship or very careful (again, I don't really think so). Still it makes me wonder what the key to her could be.
For the AFCs happening to read this... have a look at this video:
Granted, these are world champions. But you bet that when you know to dance even a tiny bit like that, that is quite impressive. About half a year after I started dancing, people started coming over to me and congratulate me to my dancing. Social status, dudes! Confidence. That's a key ingredient to any pickup.
When I'm going out to some of my usual clubs, I get in for free, there are a dozen girls I hug and peck to say hello. You bet I'm alpha. And every now and then a pretty girl I've never seen before comes over and says something like "Would you dance with me? I don't know much Swing yet / I know only how to dance Jive, but I guess it will work somehow". etc. I'm still a rAFC myself. I usually seriously suck at approaching girls. But when out dancing, I actually have the girls approach me!
For the PUAs here: watch above video... I LOVE that move at 3:10. It would be so interesting to do that one on an unsuspecting girl (especially if you manage to time it to the music... "so kiss me..."). Unfortunately, that doesn't work, she'll probably just fall over, not bend like Carla does. We've tried that move, it's far from easy for the girl even when expecting that move.
Hmm... I probably should develop some routine around why I'm dancing or so...
11-01-2007, 07:37 AM #2
What kind of moves have you been putting on her? Mabey they weren't strong enough.
Something you can do as a learning test for yourself: Turn her into your wingwoman, or see if she'll help you hook up with other chicks. Mabey that'll turn on her jelousy and she'll snap out of her shell
Last edited by The_Boss; 11-01-2007 at 07:38 AM. Reason: typo
11-01-2007, 07:42 AM #3Administrator Emeritus
What I'm wondering about is her situation, how comes she doesn't seem to be looking for a relationship?
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- Dec 2005
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And I think you're kidding yourself. The idea of a single SHB you see 20 hours a week and don't want to sleep with makes no sense.When I am writing in red, it's as an Attraction Forums mod or admin. When I write in normal text, it's just me.
11-01-2007, 02:10 PM #4
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- Oct 2007
Hey, I definitely would love to sleep with her... and I could easily name a couple of things I totally love about her. I'm not kidding myself with respect to that. But I'm aware that there is no use in being 'obsessed', and that I might even be better off with just being dance partners. And I'm also aware that it might even help to go after other girls to make her jealous etc. :-)
I've been not trying to use her as wingwoman to not go further towards the 'just friends' direction I'm already way too far down. There are other girls I can use as wingwoman (that e.g. are in a serious relationship). But I of course use her as social proof.
Moves I've been putting on... well, I'm still a rAFC... I've been using some kino outside of dancing, eventually going as far as a long massage on the beach during a holiday trip we did (got a convertible for the trip ;-) - and other women around asked if they could be next to get a massage). I didn't try any of the common tactics, routines or so. I guess most would come over oddly after being friends for so long, and I didn't really get around to memorizing any of them yet. When I actually tried to go for a close it did work out by itself, without any routines. Didn't really do the newbie mission or anything like that yet (I'm kind of busy. And looking back I still managed to get some field experience in the meantime). I still need to really do that sometime soon, and if it's just to get used to using real routines, instead of just acting completely spontaneously like I did so far.
I could probably still try the cube routine or something like that on her - if I'd see any real point in trying.
Last edited by raycast; 11-01-2007 at 02:20 PM.
11-01-2007, 03:00 PM #5
routines like the cube aren't really going to help at this point. it won't make her any more interested in you than she already is. If anything she'll think it's kinda cool but that's it. It's up to you to start showing interest in her, but not from an "i want to be your friend" kind of way.
11-03-2007, 11:25 AM #6
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- Oct 2007
I also tried that some time ago already. When dancing, and especially when waiting for a song to begin (you know, live bands usually don't crossfade) you often end up standing somewhere with your arm around the girls back. Good moment to move the hand slightly down to the lower back or up to the neck and slightly pet her (I guess you've seen the 'arousing touch' video of that other PUG). But that's basically how I got the LJBF spoken out - along the lines of "I of course like your massages and love to dance with you, but if you stroke me etc., that just means stress to me". And no, I didn't just overdo it. And a couple of days later, after watching a movie at my place, she said something along the lines of "it was a great night for me, now that we got that sorted out and you're not trying further [...] oops, it probably wasn't really easy and cool for you"
But remember, my question wasn't so much "how do I get her", but "why does she seem to be not interested in anybody ever".
11-03-2007, 04:27 PM #7
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- Aug 2007
This is one rAFC to another, so install the appropriate grain of salt, but my opinion is that SHE IS WAITING FOR YOU TAKE THE LEAD. You are a dancer, you should know how important this is. Ignore her after-comments, which are not IMHO of the LJBF mode so much as to save you both face BECAUSE YOU FAILED TO ESCALATE.
Your *first* priority is to make sure that you are seeing (and fucking) other women. This is your "inoculation" against one-itis", and puts you in a "non-needy" frame. Do not proceed with her until you have this part covered!
*Second*, decide for yourself whether you can "walk away" from this relationship if it comes to that (worst-case scenario), or at the very least, that you have a strong enough frame to have sex with her without it affecting the rest of your interactions. If she turns you down, it should be no big deal, don't change any of your previous attitude. If you cannot do this, do not proceed!
Finally, once you are in a strong mindset/frame, isolate and escalate! She has already give you huge opportunities so far (if a chick allows you a massage, that is about as massive a "go" signal as she can reasonably provide). Look up Vin DiCarlo's escalation ladder, the main points of which are, for me, don't attempt to kiss her until you have escalated kino to the proper level, AND you are in a location to f-close. Whether you actually f-close or not, you want it to be HER that deflects the escalation NOT the circumstances! You must set yourself up logistically to SUCCEED completely, without actual barriers such aas moving locations etc.. She will sense your will and leadership, just make sure it is relaxed, smooth and very sexual. A little humor (c&f) will help with ASD. Remember, SHE WANTS THIS MORE THAN YOU DO!
Make sure that one and two above are in place, then GO FORWARD and show her how a man leads!
(P.S., as for your "why" question in the thread title, IMHO she is witholding any info/attention about interest in others in order to "clear the path" for your advance. Even if she isn't doing this, and has some strange other agenda, by adopting the mindset of "she is so into me that she is afraid to talk about or look at other guys" is the proper pua mindset. The only way to find out her real mindset about the situation is to proceed accordingly)
11-03-2007, 04:51 PM #8
Omg, you guys all assume she wants him to pick her up. There are girls who do not want relationships. There are girls who are asexual (though it's rare). Finally, how do you know she doesn't have anyone else in her life (like an LOD?). Do you know EVERYTHING about her? It could also be that she's a very closed, shy person on the inside (though it doesn't show because she is comfortable with touch on the outside) and because of some traumatic event doesn't let herself trust anyone. Really, your guess is as good as mine. Could be anything. For your purpose though, enjoy the relationship you have now, dance with her, and find other girls to pick up (i.e. do what you've been doing) and don't worry too much about what she's thinking.
11-03-2007, 05:19 PM #9
Can the OP please clear something up...
Is this a general discussion on women in general?
Are you happy with where you are in relationship land with her right now?
Do you want more. Be it FB, or Girlfriend?
To me it seams like you don't know the answer to those last questions. Worry about what you want (Destination) before you figure out how to get there.
A simple solution is to get really drunk and caveman her. Then you have the excuse of being drunk but will also find out how she feels. Not recommended cause it's an all or nothing solution.
Also she could be lesbian.
And why not use her as a wing / pivot??
11-05-2007, 10:57 AM #10
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- Oct 2007
Danjer: I think I already answered some/most of your questions before...
To a certain amount, it is a question about women in general. Although 'inspired' by a 'real world example'.
So to the questions about my attitude:
- I wouldn't want to lose her as dancing partner and friend. She's one of that kind of people that will just make your day when you meet them. She makes everybody smile because of her overly positive attitude.
- I'm not really happy with the situation - I'd love to escalate it further, be it FB or Girlfriend.
- She's too smart to let me get her drunk easily.
- I don't want to use her as wing to not go down the LJBF lane. I am using her as a social proof by dancing (and showing off) with her.
I also mentioned that I don't think she's lesbian because she's pretty much exclusively dancing with guys. She's learning lead now as well, but mostly using it with guys. If she were lesbian, you'd assume she'd be trying to get close to girls, don't you? And if she was in a LDR, she certainly would have told me, would make calls or have a visit.
So it brings me back to my questions:
- not interested in sexual relationships at all?
- not ready? recovering from some bad experience?
- traumatized? (although she's so positive towards everything I doubt that)
- picky, and doesn't know what she actually wants?
Well, I figure all you could be writing boils down to guesswork. Thanks, Rogue, for emphasizing that we'll be just guessing here. I doubt many of your suggestions (e.g. the 'trust' point - she's apprently trusting me enough to go on vacation with me or come over to my place late at night). Although I have had similar impressions before (such as her knowing she has some traits that might get onto peoples nerves after some time; but we've been close friends for quite some time now...) and of course I can't rule out any existing (long distance?) relationship.
I'll just continue to try to hit on other girls and see if/how it affects her (and of course to get the other girls; I hope I can continue with one from last week at tonights dance), while still giving her the occasional chance to signal differently.
In fact I've already been increasing my pace along these lines: mostly along 'I know other great and pretty dancers as well' though with sometimes the focus on 'good dancer' (to make her not want to lose me as dance partner) and along the 'pretty' line.
Oh, I have this relationship somewhat on standby since she has been away on vacation, sick at home at her parents etc. for some time. Once she's back, I could bring her into play as well. Before, I've been trying to avoid them meeting each other, for obvious reasons... It's a relationship I don't care much about - I was trying to improve my skills in A and C phases but pretty much skipped right through C. Kind of spoils the learning effect when going from getting to know her name to her bed in like 2 hours.
What do you think, should I bring her into play? What if the first girl gets to know that I've been dating this other girl for some time and I've been trying to hit on her in the meantime?