How to start learning Pickup - Page 2
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  1. #11

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurley View Post
    We can discuss semantics all day if you want. Why don't we start by you defining what you mean when you say "pickup".

    To me pickup was something that I wanted to learn when I started going to nightclubs and bars around the age 22. I never had any problems meting or connecting with women at all, but I mostly went to high school and college parties in my small town, so my first time in a nightclub I was downright discombobulated. I didn't need to fix my dating life. I didn't need to learn how to understand women (with the caveat that as a man who date women, you will never stop learning new things about them)

    I just wanted to add to my dating life by learning how to pick up a woman in a nightclub or a bar: Pickup.

    I agree, it's a skillset, everything but instincts are. We don't have to discuss that socializing is a skill that can be learned. And we don't have to discuss that it's a complex skillset if you didn't learn it naturally growing up. We also do not need to discuss that forming a connection with women is important if you want more than to have sex with her a few times. What is this? You are just listing obviousness.

    Many guys DID learn it automatically when growing up, as seamlessly as we learned our native language. Don't project one group of guys' problems on to all guys.

    Lol, are you seriously kidding me? You are talking about things that by large only exists on forums amongst keyboard jockeys or guys who just read the game for the first time. The only time most of us use the words DHV, negs etc. is when suggesting to a guy who uses those words that he should STOP using them.

    It seems that you are commenting on something you know little about, maybe because you only scratched the surface and concluded that you know better. In that case, get in touch with some guys who are serious about learning pickup or game before you further comment on it because it's awkward to see you trying to distinguish yourself from something that doesn't really exist. What's next, we're gonna discuss limiting steam trains in North America.

    Alternatively, you're just another guru trying to distinguish yourself from other gurus. If that's the case, you're doing a piss poor job at it.

    I agree that many guys on forums use pickup advice in an unhealthy way. A lot of guys in game have absolutely no clue about how to connect with women and they think game is some technical formula that they just need to follow and then they will drown in pussy. Many of these guys can't be reached and they happen to be the same guys that you will never reach with articles about how you think connecting with women should rather be taught, even if your stuff is 100% correct.

    You're preaching to the choir.

    Hey,

    This is supermagico. I decided to change my user name as that was a shitty name. [ADMIN: Multiple accounts are not allowed. Ask for a name change instead. Accounts merged]

    First point- It's not just about semantics. I've never met a cool pick up artist... ever. The word 'pick-up'... it's not just semantics. Are you literally going to go pick a woman up and bench press her? I mean come on. But no, guys who get into pick-up try to indeed pick women up, just not physically, but by manipulation. The problem is the very notion of needing to 'pick women up'. You're assuming the girl doesn't want to fuck. She does. You just have to learn how to be cool. Pick up doesn't teach you how to be cool.

    You might argue that pick up may teach you techniques.Some might teach worthwhile techniques, but it's never anything of real value. Great, you can approach women and maybe flirt with her for 30 seconds, but your life sucks, you don't how to relate to women, or people for that matter, you have 0% social awareness, and you hate yourself so it never goes anywhere. That's the problem with pick up. They focus on the quick fix. And while it's nice to get a quick fix, it's like training wheels, at one point you have to take it off and learn how to be a cool man, which takes a long time, and requires men who are actually cool, which are not pick up artists. I have never once heard of or seen a company promote getting your life handled first, than going after women. It's always the other way around with them because no guy wants to be told they have to get their shit together first.

    But on your point about going to clubs, I highly doubt you went to pick up seminars just for that. If you had a successful dating life and quote on quote, could 'connect' with women, you could of easily met women at clubs. Maybe not quite as well as someone who has techniques, but decent enough to not have to go to seminars. You sound like a guy who had 'some', and key word some success in college, but plenty of deep issues, and you felt like you wanted to finally learn how to get girls and you saw the club as the easiest place to get them (although, in my opinion, it's one of the worst). I know you say you just to learn how to get girls in clubs, but I don't buy that. I think you didn't know how to deal with women.

    The point you made about me saying connecting with women is a complex skillset is me countering your point on connecting with women not mattering if you want to get laid. Connection is what gets you laid bro. If you get laid a lot, you'll know what I'm talking about. The greatest guy I know with women, Valentino X, (writing an article about him soon) once told me that connection is everything. It took me a while to realize it, but once I did, it was golden.

    You're right about the dhv, neg stuff. I have noticed some pua's try to be natural and move away from that stuff... but key word try. At the core of it, it's the same bull shit mentality. They are trying to pretend they're cooler than the other pua's that came before them, but yet they still call themselves pua's... There's a say; The more things change, the more they stay the same. Pick-up is still the same as it's always been. Manipulation of women. Problem is, who needs to manipulate women? A pussy. A pussy who doesn't have his life together. So I honestly think no guy should learn from anyone that calls themselves a pick up artist. It's not worth it in the long run. Shit, not even in the short run. A dating coach perhaps depending on the coach. Pick up artist? hell no.



  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveDr View Post
    I honestly think no guy should learn from anyone that calls themselves a pick up artist
    Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveDr View Post
    But on your point about going to clubs, I highly doubt you went to pick up seminars just for that. You sound like a guy who had 'some', and key word some success in college, but plenty of deep issues
    Being presumptuous is rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveDr View Post
    Pick-up is still the same as it's always been. Manipulation of women
    I am still missing a definition from you. You say pickup is manipulative but you talk about pickup artists. What exactly is your message her? To not get advice from guys who teaches manipulative techniques? Cool, I couldn't agree more.

    But if you really want to discuss manipulation in dating, why don't we talk about the book "The rules" which was released in 1995, at a point where "game" was still an idea in the back of Ross Jeffries' head. A book that has put so many strange ideas in the head of women, ideas that are today considered universal truths. It's actually funny that game grew to strength at about the same rate as The Rules gained widespread popularity. Action and reaction maybe?

    1. If a guy asks another guy "what should I text this woman, she doesn't reply" he gets some advice, and then he changes his style of writing. Is he manipulating the woman?

    2. If a guy goes to a club, talks to some women, and then when he gets home he tells his brother about it and says "the woman all left to the toilet after a few minutes, what could I have done differently", and then he changes what he does the next time he goes to a club. Is he manipulating women?

    3. A guy can get women on dates, but the woman don't feel like going on a second date with him. They are really open towards continuing as friends though. He asks a friend "what am I doing wrong". His friend tells him to be more open about his intent and to make sure to show that he likes her by touching her and kissing her when it feels right. So he does, and his dates are more successful. Is he manipulating women?

    4. If a girl has a rule about not replying to the first text from a guy. Is she manipulating guys?

    5. I a guy has a rule about always texting girls at least two times before he gives up, because he knows that many women will not reply to the first text. Is he manipulating women?

  3. #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurley View Post
    Agree

    Being presumptuous is rude.

    I am still missing a definition from you. You say pickup is manipulative but you talk about pickup artists. What exactly is your message her? To not get advice from guys who teaches manipulative techniques? Cool, I couldn't agree more.

    But if you really want to discuss manipulation in dating, why don't we talk about the book "The rules" which was released in 1995, at a point where "game" was still an idea in the back of Ross Jeffries' head. A book that has put so many strange ideas in the head of women, ideas that are today considered universal truths. It's actually funny that game grew to strength at about the same rate as The Rules gained widespread popularity. Action and reaction maybe?

    1. If a guy asks another guy "what should I text this woman, she doesn't reply" he gets some advice, and then he changes his style of writing. Is he manipulating the woman?


    2. If a guy goes to a club, talks to some women, and then when he gets home he tells his brother about it and says "the woman all left to the toilet after a few minutes, what could I have done differently", and then he changes what he does the next time he goes to a club. Is he manipulating women?

    3. A guy can get women on dates, but the woman don't feel like going on a second date with him. They are really open towards continuing as friends though. He asks a friend "what am I doing wrong". His friend tells him to be more open about his intent and to make sure to show that he likes her by touching her and kissing her when it feels right. So he does, and his dates are more successful. Is he manipulating women?

    4. If a girl has a rule about not replying to the first text from a guy. Is she manipulating guys?

    5. I a guy has a rule about always texting girls at least two times before he gives up, because he knows that many women will not reply to the first text. Is he manipulating women?
    Look man, it's manipulation when you try to pretend to be something you're not, a cool guy for example. Pick up tells you to be that, but doesn't teach you actually how. I agree that some of the techniques may be helpful, but by in large, they are packaged in a very negative mindset. The very notion of pick up is about 'picking girls up' rather than meeting them and having a great time. It's not just semantics. You're just entrenched in that world, and you can't tell. Like asking a fish in the water if they like being wet all the time... they won't even have a clue what being wet means. Let it sink in...
    I've been in this game over a decade man. I got into DYD when I was 13 and everything in between... I worked for Askromeo at 17... I literally grew up with the community, so I have an idea of what I'm talking about.

    I agree that jeffries is manipulative as fuck, and so is the rules. Totally agree that women pull manipulative shit all the time too. So what's the answer, be MORE manipulative? I wish it worked, but women, and especially decent women, smell that shit from a mile away.

    None of those rules are inherently terrible, but it's the intention behind it that counts. Are you kissing a woman because you're trying to prove your alpha or because you actually 'want' to kiss her? Are you doing x, or y, or z because you're trying to prove your a cool bad ass or because you naturally are a cool bad ass, and you just simply expressing yourself? The problem with pick up is, it never actually teaches you to be that cool bad ass. Never. Name one person or program that does that calls themselves a pua. And guys who waste time pretending to be a cool bad ass never actually consistently 'pull' or pull anything of quality.

    So, there is NOTHING wrong with learning dating skills. That's not the point here. The point is the ideology of pick up, and indeed it is an ideology, is wrong. It's better than nothing, but ultimately, it'll hurt you bad in the long run. And there's something eerily similar about every single person who refers to themselves as pick up artists or learning to meet/date women as 'pick up'. I'm not the first person to bring this up. David d has, david wygant has, dr. paul, dr amir, authentic man program, my boys at ask romeo, valentino, jae, etc and every other guy who consistently gets laid and has high quality women around him. I've never met a solid man who referred to himself as a pick up artist. ever. And I never will...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveDr View Post
    You're just entrenched in that world, and you can't tell. Like asking a fish in the water if they like being wet all the time... they won't even have a clue what being wet means. Let it sink in...
    Why are you riding Hurley's back? His advice always seems pretty competent and he has never struck me as a "weird pickup guy".

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveDr View Post
    Look man, it's manipulation when you try to pretend to be something you're not, a cool guy for example.
    Who are you to define what's cool? Any man who's deemed uncool by society's superficial standards can, without changing what he likes, does and is, change himself into being a cool guy by making a few select changes to the way he thinks, acts and carries himself. There's no manipulation in wanting to improve yourself. Not even if a guy, as part of learning how to connect with women, for a while is using some lines he read on a forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoveDr View Post
    Pick up tells you to be that (cool), but doesn't teach you actually how
    I have to ask you too. What is this pickup of which you speak?

    I know it can't be current Love Systems because every single damn instructor I ever met, which is most of them, and most guy who took training from them, focus somewhere between 0-5% on pickup stuff and 95-100% on how to become an actually awesome guy.

    No one here disagrees that classic pickup was pretty weird, some of it very weird and manipulative, no one disagrees that stuff like the neg was a load of bullshit and no one disagrees that there are a lot of snakeskin oil salesmen trying to sell crappy advice to desperate guys.

    So can we please close this discussion and then you can take it to a place where it's relevant instead of arguing with guys who by large agree with you completely?

  5. #15

    I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm completely uninterested in being some guy with a shitty life, shitty job, lousy health, a drug abuser, treats people like crap, etc., but who somehow manages to sleep with lots of hot women. No amount of sex with beautiful women could make up for a fucked up life. I've spent the last four years mostly away from dating advice sites and products like it just getting my life in gear. I was all fucked over with PTSD thanks to violent experiences in the crappy schools I went to and home life. But some serious psychotherapy, what you might call "deep inner game" has given me a better outlook. I dumped consuming alcohol and am currently in the midst of starting my own business. I'm serving my first clients and estimate that I can make a total break from my regular job in about 6 months. It hasn't been quick and easy -- this has been a long ongoing process. Only after making a bunch of internal process have I turned back to dating advice books like Magic Bullets. And, guess what, I've had some success. I recently connected with a terrific woman and made love to her and am seeing her. She's not a knockout, but she's certainly not ugly either. Progress. It feels good, and I've worked hard for it. And she's someone I genuinely like being with. I'm not fucking her just to prove I'm great or something. If I weren't sleeping with her, I would be happy to just hang with her.

    I don't care what you call the materials -- call it dating advice, call it pickup, whatever. I only care if it's quality material. To my mind, it's quality if it emphasizes building yourself up as an overall better person while learning how to more effectively interact with women, all the while being genuine. IMO MB does that, as do the works of David DeAngelo, Kezia Noble, and others. There is some shitty work out there too. I called out one unethical idiot who claimed rape should be legal as long as it's on private property. Turns out, he was a bozo living in his mom's basement selling some stupid PUA book that supposedly would make anyone a master. I've determined never to make up BS, but to always play to my strengths and always try to get better every day, in terms of being a better person, a better business man, and a better social human being. If a woman interacts with me, she's getting me as I really am, not some made-up BS. I'm not any good at faking it, so I have to do it that way. That's my take on it anyway.

  6. #16
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    Sounds like a very balanced view on "pickup"

  7. Hi party people
    i will give a sugestion to new PUAs to not be lazy about reading
    And dont use only one method.
    i have more than 200gb of material and if someone is interested inbox me

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by baki9 View Post
    I have more than 200gb of material and if someone is interested inbox me
    First, I assume that all those 200gb is royalty free?

    Btw, 200 gb of material, that's sounds like something that would be toxic to almost anyone learning game unless you're the next Braddock.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    First, I assume that all those 200gb is royalty free?

    Btw, 200 gb of material, that's sounds like something that would be toxic to almost anyone learning game unless you're the next Braddock.
    Haha, i gave things free but a lot of ppl think we are here just dudes with few magic tricks so even what i give, ppl dont have time to read and come back to me just more frustrated

    I met some of great masters, so dont worry about my brain gone overhiting, i am always excited about learning and exploring this, and a lot of things i have are super rare

    Remember ppl, even if you readed 3 pages of game today you are 3 pages better from dudes which readed nothing
    Dont be lazy about reading.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by baki9 View Post
    even if you readed 3 pages of game today you are 3 pages better from dudes which readed nothing
    And a guy who approached 1 woman is better off than the dude who read 200 GB of pages without approaching.

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