Does he like me? Your advice appreciated

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  1. #1

    Does he like me? Your advice appreciated

    I am hoping to get some male perspective on a situation. A bit long, but I hope it's a good story and worth the read.

    I've known my co-worker S for almost 3 years since we started work at the same time. I was never attracted to S - in fact when I first met him, I thought he was a bit immature, and at times, annoying. We've been friendly, but didn't get closer until about a year ago when when of my other close (also male) work friend moved away and S and I started hanging out more.

    Our friendship has always been a bit flirty where we banter back and forth. People have always commented that him and I get along great and we should date. But I never felt that way. I've always had 1-2 good guy friends during most times in my life and people would say that we should date. So I didn't find this unsual. To me, he was just always a friend whom I was comfortable with, but not attracted to. We've talked about so many things - who we've dated, who we like, interesting sexual escapades, and I've told him some personal things too... (argh). But I was really thought of him as just a friend and treated him as I would treat a girlfriend, never thinking it would turn into something more.

    A few months ago, I sensed that he may be somewhat more attracted to me. A bunch of us were out to drinks and I wasn't drinking much because I was going to go workout after. I asked S to finish my beer and S accuesd me of trying to get him drunk and taking advantage of him. He asked if he finished my beer if I would let him come home with me and I said "Finish up and then we'll talk." And he said "No way - you won't hold up your end of the bargain." And he kind of persisted on the topic for a while and I started to feel a bit uncomfortable...that's when I first sensed he was testing waters. But, I still was not interested.

    We hang out now and then - take breaks - and just talk both about work and outside of work. He teases me about being high maintenaince. I tease him about creeping me out. I think he finds me attractive b/c he's seen a couple guys approach me at bars/clubs when we've been out, and he said something to me about how if I go to this professionals party that he always goes to that guys will just come up and hit on me. He's also mentioned to me a couple times that other guys have told him that I am hot / good-looking. And this whole time, I still thought of him as just a guy friend.

    About a month ago, he asked me (just me) to go to dinner at this place that he wanted to try. We then went out for drinks. I had such a great time because we laughed nonstop and I left thinking "wow, that was better than any date I've been on in a long time." He texted me a few times as I was heading home. The next day was a firm happy hour and people were again making comments that there was some sexual tension between us and that we should date. I still didn't think anything of it until the next day when he started texting me randomly. And then the rest of the weekend, I found myself smiling whenever I thought of him. We hung out again that Wednesday night with a group of other people, except most of the night we sat away from everyone and talked just to each other (so I am sure people thought something was going on). It was a very flirty conversation with a good bit of sexual topics. Nothing happened that night - same thing - we texted a few flirty messages back and forth. He texted me both days later that week.

    The next weekend, I was workng a lot and working late. S had e-mailled me pictures of his new place, to which I responded to that night "Looks nice. Hope you get it." He e-mailed me and texted me. He wanted me to come out but it was late and I was tired. We texted back and forth and then he called. We talked on the phone for 1.5 hours (until almost 3 AM). It just seemed like both of us were dancing around, getting the other to open up, while we weren't.

    I started freaking out because at this point I was finding myself very attracted to him. And all I could think was that this is crazy - he's just a friend (and my co-worker!) - and plus, he knows some very very very personal details about me (and that's the part that was freaking me out more). I am looking for something serious, not just a hook-up. I am more of an old-fashioned girl - I don't sleep around or hook-up. And while S knows this, I am not quite sure if he cares. S is the type to hook-up first and then get into a relationship. I am the opposite. I just didn't see how it would work. So I pulled back on the flirty talk, and almost wrote him off (or tried).

    But then this past week, we hung out again. More flirty talk (although not as sexual as before). And I had fun again. I loved it when he was carrying my stuff and I was running away and he was trying to grab me. I was laughing so much. He said that I laughed like a little girl. I ran into him and playfully punched his chest and that was when he almost kissed me. We were on our way to a networking / social event with some other friends / coworkers. He played footsie with me the whole time. At the end of the night, after everyone at left, he pulled me toward him to kiss me. It was a very passionate, hard kiss. We kissed in the lounge, down the escalator, on the street, all through the cab ride.

    After that night, he stopped by my desk the next day to return my phone (he had it and had forgotten to give it to me at the end of the night). He messaged me at work a few times (once to ask when I was leaving on vacation (answer: tonight) and to ask generally about work stuff). I left early that day to catch my flight without saying "bye" to him. He texted me saying "Have a fun trip" and I responded "Thanks, you too. Good luck with moving into your new place."

    So, I am on vacation now and won't see him for 3 weeks. I still don't know what to think - as to whether he's interested in a relationship / dating me or just a hook-up - and would appreciate your thoughts as well as advice on what to do going forward. And it's not like I know for sure whether we should date, but I don't want to end up just hooking up, and I guess I want to date him / get to know him as more than a friend to figure it out. Below are some more details.

    Pros
    - He remembered some specific things about my dad that he thought was cute (I am close to and protective of my dad).
    - He always initiates texts.
    - He's complimented me a few times (saying this hat I bought that I wore and showed him looked good (I could see it in his face), and saying that my clothes / shoes were nice, etc.)

    Cons
    - He hasn't asked me out on a date.
    - He hasn't paid for dinner or anything really. In fact, he owed me money from when we first went out and I had to ask him to pay it back (such a turn off, which is why I practically wrote him off). Another big turn off was that in the cab ride, he asked me for money for the cab. I said I didn't have cash and he finally ended up paying with his card. I don't care what century it is, but that is such a turn-off.
    - He wanted me to come home with him the night we kissed (which I refused and he seemed to take it OK).
    - I lost my earring during the cab makeout session and I told him about it and he didn't seem to care.

    You decide?
    - He notices weird things about me - like I have a scar on my arm and then he commented that I wasn't very hairy at all. He once mentioned something about how I had a slight zit and a small scratch by my eye. Ugh - why does he notice and point out such little things about me? Makes me feel like he's scrutinizing me.
    - At the lounge, everytime my friend and I went to the bathroom and were waiting in the line, S would follow us and we'd see him in line. What was that about?
    - While we were kissing, his hands were all over me - trying to get under my skirt while I kept blocking his hand from doing so. He said something about how I was a good blocker.



  2. #2
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    Hmm... I'd say he either studies PUA or is kinda socially weird. My first bf/hookup/whatever was into this stuff (I found out afterwards), and a lot of things sound familiar. PUA teachings tell the guy to not buy a girl's affection, but most guys who start out learning this take it too far and end up just looking cheap. My ex rarely paid for stuff too, and made it a point to split everything 50/50. I'm all for sharing costs, but the way he did it was a huge turn-off. On the other hand, he may just be immature.

    The scrutinizing thing sounds like he was trying to neg you. I find this super-annoying as well, but the fact that he notices details about you, means he's looking... HARD.

    It sounds like he definitely likes you, but I don't think he's thinking about the future as much as you are. He probably is living in the present thinking "I like this chick, let's see what happens." Most guys, unless they already have you pegged in the "no relationship" category, don't think ahead that far and just take things as they come. It's us girls that tend to project everything into the future and want to know the outcome before anything happens

    If you're looking for a relationship, do you think this guy has relationship qualities? Can you see yourself with him in the long run? Also, if the relationship turns sour, is this someone you work with directly, or would there be a way to non-awkwardly avoid him at work? Take these things into consideration, and decide what you want from him. Then, go with the flow and see what happens.

    Rogue

  3. #3

    Thanks, Rogue. I am not sure what relationship material he studies. I just really dislike his cheapness! I get that as friends, we've gone 50/50, and I don't mind going 50/50, but I think it's reasonable for him to pay for the first few actual dates and show some effort.

    I think you're right - he's probably not thinking about a future with me. He actually knows I am interviewing in other places (as is he) and we may potentially move away.

    As for the relationship and his relationship qualities...hmm...I am not sure. How do you figure that out unless you date? I mean, I have fun with him and he seems nice / faithful, etc. I know he's clean b/c he's told me. He did mention that he'd like to get married in a few years, but I know that guys say a lot of things that they don't mean (i.e., think they're ready when they really are not. He's 31; I am 28.

    We do work with each other on the same floor, so we see each other frequently, but we're never on the same project together.

    I am total girl. I totally grinned when I read "It sounds like he definitely likes you." Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Let me ask you this first: Do you REALLY want to get involved with a co-worker?
    Hook-up or serious: if one of you two decides to split up, it'll be awkward at the very least. Think about that.

    As Rogue already mentioned, don't try to plan 20 years ahead with this guy. What? Don't try to plan 20 years ahead with ANY interpersonal thing. You're dealing with other people here, you can't control their lives and emotions. So don't try to!

    It looks to me like he's into you. But whether it is as a hook up or as something more serious - I don't know. I'd suggest you test the water too. Let him near you a little more, see how it feels. When you feel confident enough that he's not a creep and that he's genuine, open up a bit more. That way you gradually allow him to see more of you bit by bit. When it doesn't work out in the early stages, at least you won't have invested much emotionally.

    And what if it turns out that he's only after a hook-up? I suppose you have needs, too? Don't you? ;-) So why not enjoy each other when it feels right?

    On a side note: why do women *expect* men to pay for the first (few) date(s)? I mean, if we offer to pay your share - fine. That's us being generous, gentleman like. But from your posts, I get that you EXPECT us to pay for you. Why? What happened to emancipation?
    "but I think it's reasonable for him to pay for the first few actual dates and show some effort"
    What if you REALLY enjoyed this date? Would you be turned off and think less of him if he wanted to split 50/50? I mean, we're all grown ups, capable of holding up our own, aren't we?

    Don't get me wrong, here: I'm not judging or critisizing you. I'm just really puzzeled by why this is such a big deal for most women.

  5. #5

    Two posters before me gave you really good advice.

    Imho I don't see problem with dating him especially if the social circle at work approves it and actually encourages. As far I would be concerned you got green light there.

    His behavior is really giving mixing signals, on one hand he pursuing you for very long time (3 years is not joke it is serious time frame no matter how you look on it) and actually stuck around with you so it does seems like he is planning to not just hit and run, on other hand he does behaves like it might be first to sleep and than maybe relationship. Honestly cannot really blame him, we all grown up and sex should not be a big deal at all, if it is a big deal now than it will be same big deal after the relationship will start.

    Nobody knows what will happen, but I think if you wait for too long and another girl will come into picture he will be easily swept by her because right now he is emotionally open. If he will see that there another women who gives him what he couldn't get with you for so long time, he will move on.

    I don't really get the idea of being turned off by him not always paying. I am old fashioned guy myself when it comes to paying and I always pay for the date, but the way I think that if you both enjoyed the date very much (as you worded it yourself it was better than any other date you had before) than that what is important. You being unreasonably picky on this one. I mean the guy if after you 3 years and you still finding such small things to write him off.

  6. #6
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    It's either A) he likes you or B) he finds you intriguing and has seriously wondered what it would be like to sleep with you. I dislike his cheapness though and it's tough to say whether he views you more as a conquest after all this time or relationship material. I think you're just going to have to add up all the factors and make the best decision for you.

  7. #7

    Thank you all for your responses.

    James - As getting involved with a co-worker is not ideal, it's certainly not something I am jumping into with my eyes closed. Thing is that I am looking for something serious. And in the past 3 years or so, despite all the guys I've dated, I am now finding myself most attracted to S. It could result in disaster, or it could be worth taking the risk - I don't know how it will turn out. And perhaps it's naive of me, but my concerns about S include things other than us working together (namely, compatability, intentions, relationship / sexual timelines, etc.)

    I am not necessarily trying to plan things out 20 years from now, but I do need to keep my fantasy urges under control (any help on how to do that?). I am a girl. I can't help thinking and fantasizing (sexually and romantically) about a guy I like. Do you guys do this? But, rationally, I really don't know what a relationship with him would be like. Or even if he wants one. So for now, I am looking at it as just a kiss and nothing more. Taking it one day at a time. I am on vacation and won't see him for 3 weeks so perhaps this break would be good for processing and seeing what happens after the absence.

    As for needs, yes, we both have "needs." However, it takes a long time for me to feel comfortable enough to go further physically with a guy, so giving into a sexual need in an uncertain situation is out of question. Because, I have other needs that far outweigh that.

    Bogs - S has not been pursuing me for 3 years. When we started working, he was dating someone. I never liked him until recently. I don't think he liked me (or got attracted to me) until recently. We always shared things like who we liked / are dating etc. He's seen me gush and burst into a grin when I'm telling him about a new guy and I've heard his hook-up stories.

    As for the paying thing - it goes into the guy being a gentleman and treating you well. I think the guy should make an effort - plan the date, be on his best behavior, ensure you are comfortable and offer to pay. After which, I don't mind paying for drinks or dessert. It gives me a hint that the guy is courteous and thoughtful - who wants to be with a thoughtless / clueless / cheap guy (especially if he's not in the beginning)? On the other hand, I do think the girl should be appreciative and polite and never take the guy's efforts for granted or abuse it (i.e., not offer to pay herself, or get the most expensive thing on the menu, etc). And really, when both people do the above, it ends up working out incredibly well. I don't care how much money I make or how much he makes. I've dated guys who've made less than me and they've done this too. I don't care if he's a student, working to make ends meet - a similar $5 effort would suffice. I don't expect a huge fancy expensive dinner - it could just be something simple - tea or coffee - but just something that shows he's trying. On the other hand, I've dated guys who make a lot of money and I can see through them when they're just throwing around money to try to impress me or make themselves feel validated. That is also a huge turn-off.

    Let me put it this way - if I went on a date with a random guy and I was borderline on how I felt about him, and he didn't pay, I don't think I would give him another shot. If I really liked him, but he didn't pay, that would be a negative in my book, and I would go out with him again, but be cautious and really watch for whether or not I can sense that he is sincere, making an effort, etc. What makes S different is that we know so much about each other (including financially). For example, I know S makes a bit more than me (not sure how much more though), but I also know he has more expenses than me (from his student loans) whereas he knows I don't care so much about money but I've paid off all my loans. And we haven't even been on a real date! What was really turning me off is that he lacked the cash for dinner and I paid, and rather than him paying me back within a week or so, I had to ask him for it (like 2-3 weeks later). And then in the cab, again he didn't have cash, and told me that rather than just paying with his card. That is really a turn off. Not sure if he was thinking that because he paid for drinks that I should help him out with this, but whatever. Just ick ew. Actually, now I am really turned off. Thanks. I think I know how to stop fantasizing now.

    I just want to see an effort. Not even related to him paying for a "date," but just something that shows he cares for this more than just a hook-up.

  8. #8

    Is it bad that he hasn't texted me since Friday? (the day I left on my vacation?)

  9. #9
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    Tough cookie: You "just want to see an effort". Are showing a clear effort too? Or are you, in good feminine fashion signalling subliminally, hoping that he picks up on your hints, and when he doesn't you turn him down because you're "not compatible" in your eyes? In my experience (limited - granted) most men just don't see subtle hints that to women are signals plain as day... Think about that. Let me stress once more that men and women really ARE different, therefore communicate differently, pay attention to different things, and so on. If you want something from a guy, you have to speak his language. Just as we have to speak your language if we want something from you - which is what pua is all about: "learning how to speak female".

    Apart from that, I agree with you that it is just a sign of good manners for the guy to offer to pay for the date he invited you to. If I were to ask you to tag along for a drink at my favourite bar and ask you to pay for both our drinks because I was short on cash, that would probably feel "creepy" and abusive to you. I get that. But for some reason it seems that women see the guy paying as a big criteria. "If he doesn't pay, I won't be with him". Which in my ears translates to: "he has to buy his way into my heart". Let's hope the truth lays somewhere in the middle.

    As for the rest: if you don't mind dating a co-worker and whatever complications that might bring, then go ahead. It's your life, you decide what's best for you. If it were me, though... I'd test the waters in a more "friends only" atmosphere for now.

    Good luck!

  10. #10
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    Well there's several schools of thought on his lack of communication ---

    1) he could not want to bother you on vacation and is being polite in a way
    2) it might be an out of sight, out of mind thing and he's not as interested as you thought
    3) he may be waiting for you to contact him and trying to convey that he is independent, secure, not needy.
    4) some other scenario I haven't considered.

    If you choose to contact him, I would say something like, "Wow, just ate at the best...." "The pool here is gorgeous, so nice to relax with a drink...." or whatever you come up with. This line says a few things.... it says I'm really enjoying myself and my vacation, but it also opens the door for him to interact with you and suggests that you thought of him while doing something fun.

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