KIEV PLAYGROUND: Deconstructing the 10-Game and all Metropolitan Legends

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  1. #1
    ZarSoul Guest

    KIEV PLAYGROUND: Deconstructing the 10-Game and all Metropolitan Legends

    Desyatki or not desyatki, this is the dilemma...
    Hello guys, let me introduce myself: I was born in Milan, I have an activity in Ukraine and for this reason I spend half of my time in Kiev where I often live. I can speak a decent Russian, but of course English is much better. I can see that there is a community growing up and this makes me happy, last time I checked, six months ago, I wondered if there were any chances that this might have ever happened...

    The reason why today I am posting is because I am tired. Damned tired of the usual stereotypes when it comes to speak about Ukrainian girls in general.
    I lived in Canada, I lived in Brazil, I lived in Portugal and in Italy and all the time the same story: all the world thinks that in order to get a Ukrainian HB in the sack a foreigner just needs to show his passport and snap his fingers... And this pisses me off. So let's take a look at what my thoughts are and then everybody is more than welcome to disagree with me and give his own personal opinion.

    A) There is a hell of a difference if you game 9s and 10s compared to when you game 7s and lower.
    The peculiarity of Kiev is the average level of beauty per square meter, because there are tons of pretty or nice girls in the capital. This makes the average level of beauty far higher than the average level you can find in USA or Western Europe.
    For this reason when a western man arrives and gets a 6 into the sack he is happy and thinks Ukrainian girls are the easiest ones. But as a matter of fact he got into the sack a girl below the average beauty of the city, so basically it is like he would had slept with a 4 or a 5 in Rome, or if in Lisbon or in Dallas. The other ones that expect something better usually end up with prostitutes.
    And this doesn't help the reputation of the city.
    But 9s and 10s are rare also here. And the competition is coming from worldwide due to the fact these girl travel a lot and know very well how to manage men.

    B) For this reason for 7s and lower a foreign passport might even be a DHV, but for 9s and 10s a foreign passport is a total DLV! Desiatki don't want anything to do with someone that might vaguely be considered as the last sex tourist that just got off the plane one hour before. For this reason approaching a 9 or 10 as foreigner is a super tough job.
    I have been dozens of times to USA and approaching an American girl is... like eating a piece of pie. American girls are joyful, playful, eager to challenge you. Respect for this attitude.
    But this is Europe. And specifically it is Kiev, the female culture is very different here.

    C) Why the game took so long to arrive here? Well, generally speaking the indirect game is fun, but let's take a look where it was created: in American bars. Even better, in Californian bars, where the outdoor area is always accessible and where there are plenty of seats for everybody for isolation. And where is in Kiev such a bar? Well, it simply doesn't exist. There are loud clubs without any free seat available unless you pay for the table service and cafes/restaurants. That's it. Now if someone is able to show me how to approach indirect a group inside Deluxe dance floor, inside Decadence or inside Arena where the volume is so high that you have to lean in (AAAAGGGHHHH! And body language???) in order to make one girl understand half of your words I would be the happiest person in the world. And what about her other friends that only saw you moving your lips? Guess what? They will get soon bored and tend to drag her away... So indirect game doesn't work for logistic factors as first.
    Can you start to see why the game hasn't properly arrived here yet?
    So what is left? Well, direct game of course!

    D) The good part comes when, somehow, you got to know the girl, in this case gaming 10s is very smooth because they really don't have a clue and in the last year I had very fast k-closes and all full-closes during Day-1 or maximum Day-2.
    So I conclude my post with a couple of statements and a couple of questions. First I want to say to the whole world that Ukrainian girls are not any easier than girls in other countries. There are good girls and bad girls like in every country. This is a very important point, not because I am eager to defend the honorability of girls here, but because this mentality diminish and depreciates all my efforts! If I brag with friends oversea about how wonderful the last girl I got in the sack was I am tired of hearing that it doesn't count because everybody gets laid in Ukraine! Who says this is kindly requested to fly over and to show us how he will sarge a 10 in this part of the world!
    WTF, a 10 is a 10 worldwide and I want to feel free to brag about it as much as I want!

    My first question goes to all you guys that had experienced with success sarging 9s and 10s, hints are highly appreciated. In particular my curiosity goes towards the brother that was talking about having a rotation of four 10s, where did you meet them? Through friends or sarged?
    My second and last question is for the brothers of the local community because I know that usually Ukrainian guys tend to hate foreigners that try to get in the sack Ukrainian girls, especially after the herds of sexual tourists that arrived here from 2006 onwards (no-visa required) and I understand you pretty well because I tend to hate them all as well.
    In short is there a chance to join you sometime or you guys are going to beat me up in the first dark street we will walk through? I know I am a damned foreigner speaking lousy Russian, but at least I can claim that I am here for working and not for sex tourism! As a matter of fact if I live here someone in the sack I need to get every now and then!

  2. #2

    Zarsoul - thanks for the report. Very interesting. Before I add my experience, have you had any new experiences in the four months since Sep. 27?


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    I am the guy who had four 10ns in the rotation )


    Ok. So, here is how I met them:

    1. (wife) Was dating my friend (social circle);
    2. My friend introduced her to me while he had no chances with her (social circle);
    3. On Kiev Fashion Week (cold approach);
    4. In night club among girls at my friend's table (social circle);
    5. On casting (beauty contest) where I was invited (social circle);
    6. One of tens introduced to another ten...

    ... so, it seems like social circle and model castings are most fertile ways.

    I do not think anyone hate foreigners in Kiev. It is pretty expat friendly.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Also, you can go to Buddhabar on Thu, Fri, Sat. Seems like they have made modeling dinner (like in Milan). There gonna be 6-10 models at the table - however, I believe, you gonna see only one 10 in the best case - rest gonna be 8.

  5. #5

    388BHP -

    Tell me about the cold approach you did on On Kiev Fashion Week. My experience with cold approach on Ukrainian women is that the Caveman Approach works best. Indirect approach doesn't tickle them and negs come across as lack of interest, which turns her off.

    I agree that Social Circle works well. Pre-selection, such as when her girlfriends introduce you, works equally well.

    I've never been to Ukraine. All of experience is based on meeting Ukrainian models working elsewhere, but that was enough to make me want to visit this coming summer.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    I disagree... You will see when you come here...
    Here, in Ukraine, a lot of idiots approach 10ns trying to deliver their crap... Honestly, men in xUSSR sometimes lack certain attitude and IQ. So, it takes more time to convey that you are normal person. That's why you need to spend much more time without conveying any interest (A2).

    I believe that exported models are different - sometimes Caveman Approach works well while it is virtually impossible to make a smart conversation with such girl. They became stupid because of modeling job, work environment, PRs, clubs, modeling dinners, modeling apartments and roommates, language issues, depression, nostalgia (no one admits this one, but they have it)...

    Also, please keep in mind that I am not qualified to judge in here - it may turn out that Caveman Approach just may work better for you... You may have better health or body language than I have... etc. For me - old MM model with long A2 still seems like guaranteed one.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Odessa, Ukraine, Ukraine

    @ZarSoul Thanks for the post! I agree about 98% with you and I've been living in Odessa for the last 5 years. I'll write again in the near future with some of my experiences and observations including contrasting Odessa with Kiev.

  8. #8

    Contradicting myself! :)

    Hey guys, I am happy that after six months my post came to life.. It means that there is still some sign of life in Kiev's game...

    So I have some news for you: in these last six months I was finally able to break down how to cold approach and pick up chicks in loud posh clubs as Dlux or going indirect. So I start from contradicting my first post: IT IS POSSIBLE, so let me brag about it for a little! )
    At present moment I am able to regularly number-close 7s and 8s from cold-approaches in Dlux, that is a hell of a result for such an environment and for quite interesting quality level of girls as described.
    As a matter of fact cold approaching and getting away with it with 9s and 10s is what I am working at present moment. My sticking point is mainly how to isolate without a decent wing. Yeah, the main problem on the Kiev playground is the drammatical lack of decent players, so winging is unknown. My local or foreign friends are not able to hold a conversation in a cold pick-up with the other girls for more than few minutes and the results are easy to imagine... the friends come and drag away my girl..
    Comparing the situation with six months ago I can say that I had to adapt some concepts to the local culture, in particular some body-language adaptations have brought me far further than when I wrote the introduction post.
    About what the other friends wrote as replies to my original thread let me say that I am very interested in the knowing the differences between Odessa and Kiev and that the friend that had 4 tens in rotation just confirmed what I wrote: nobody still breaked down how to cold approach and pick up 9s and 10s in posh ukrainian clubs... Basically you need a social circle, that is quite hard if you don't live 365 days in the same city, if you don't speak perfectly the local language and if you don't invest quite a lot of money in table-services.
    But in my personal opinion this is not pick-up anymore... this is just player's game. Or call it how you want. I mean that through introductions you basically cut off all the front-game and you concentrate in the back-game, so if you have a strong identity and a fair game things go quite smooth in this side of the world. And I am talking against my own personal interest due to the fact that 30% of my results come from introductions (social circle), and 40% from Internet, while only a 30% come from real pick-up...
    In order to make you better understanding my present level of gaming let me say that I reached an 8-girls rotation last October based on 8s, 8s and half and 9s. I will not post any pictures in here, but I have plenty to show to anybody that is eager to meet me.
    I am saying this not because I want to brag, that anyway is always a nice feeling but because I am desperate for a decent wing...
    Everybody I met, and basically I know all the players, local or foreigners in the field, have different goals or ages and this makes the winging something totally un-known...
    I think I will write a separate post about all the Kiev players attitude, without names of course, but just in order to give a general idea of the situation.
    So once more I would like to shout my message loud and clear: if anybody, ANYBODY, as done or seen doing cold approaches ending in positive pick-ups with 9s and 10s in the best Kiev clubs LET ME KNOW IT because I have never, ever, ever seen anybody doing it, local or foreigner. Maximum I have seen and personally done HB8 pick-ups.
    I AM strongly interested in finding a wing, at any level, better or worst than me, just in order to be able to isolate the targets. At present moment I am looking for a way to isolate my target in a two-set ALONE, so considering that my friend will be blown out within the first 3 minutes, but I am not sure if and when I will be able to report it...
    Stay cool everybody..

  9. #9

    Ah, by the way, referred to what the friend Tip top wrote... Negs work here as well as in other places.
    The problem with negs is that it is very easy to go beyond and being percieved as an asshole, so it is crucial your peception of how the dinamic is going... I have thrown a perfect-10 pick up in the toliet after 10 minutes of isolation due to a miscalibration from my side... she was giving me some light IOIs and in return I pushed it on playful negs... too much. You can imagine my face when she walked away visibly upset... Anyway they work great in the very first minutes of the approach if your target is acting way too cold...

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