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08-28-2010, 06:21 AM #1
I’ve written an account of the weekend that is more or less full. Before I get to that, though, let me offer a basic review.
Future Bootcamp - NYC, August 2010 (w/ Big Business)
Is a bootcamp worth it?
That depends. It depends on how much spending three thousand dollars hurts you, where your game is, what you expect to learn, how deep your malfunctions and bad programming run, and so on. If you are so backwards that you can’t approach at all, personally I would advise doing everything you could to resolve that issue way before you sign up for a bootcamp. But that’s just me, and it’s a relative opinion. My problem is calibrating my personality in order to smoothly convey sexual interest, so someone more put together than me could say, “If you aren’t at the stage where you can get into good, direct, sexual frames with girls you’ve just met, sort that out first.”
A more basic and important piece of advice is this: if you . . .
. . . are so backwards and reluctant that you aren’t willing to do and try what you’re told by the instructors . . .
. . . aren’t willing to let your development and progress unfold on its own terms . . .
. . . aren’t willing to put in sustained work afterward . . .
. . . then don’t take a bootcamp.
The last one might be the most important. You’re going to have wasted your money and a lot of instructor time if you can’t, as Future put it, put yourself continuously through the crucible of experience. Experience, ultimately, is what teaches. It’s like what Ronnie Coleman said about training: “Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, but don’t nobody wanna lift no heavy-ass weight!” Guidance and expertise can help you shape and direct your lifting and your experience, but at the end of the day you still need to lift to get big, and you need to experience approaching and conversing with girls to get better.
If you get yourself to that point and you don’t have a ready way to observe expert gaming, you can start considering taking a bootcamp. That’s the best endorsement I can give, because ultimately it comes down to the individual student. All I can say is that I was happy with my experience, and that I can’t think of any areas where my instructors didn’t live up to the letter and spirit of their stated purpose.
Oh, and one more thing. If you’re taking a bootcamp to experience one of those earth-shattering “WOW” moments in which you transform your life overnight into a lover’s paradise, stop. You’re signing up for the wrong reason. This is not a magic vacation for the soul. This is part of you working on yourself and your habits. While some people have experienced thrilling transcendent moments on their bootcamps, those moments occurred in the context of their individual progress and journey. The bootcamp was neither the beginning nor the end for them or anyone.
I had overlapping reasons for taking the bootcamp. I’d discovered game almost exactly a year prior and flipped my appearance and outlook fairly dramatically. But I’m still really uncalibrated and lacking in vibe, and I wanted the boost I knew I’d get from observing instructors and having them observe and coach me. I also simply wanted to see what the business is like and what kind of guys the instructors are. I’ve been reading this stuff in depth for a while now, and while I’m pretty confident in being able to see through bullshit, I still wanted to get an idea of how these guys seem personally.
And there’s a put up or shut up effect to spending three thousand dollars on a bootcamp. I strapped myself pretty damn tight to make this happen, to the point where I had to ruffle a few feathers in my personal life. No more excuses now!
Alright, the bootcamp itself. We were in a building near Penn Station that mostly functioned as dance studios, for pros and people who were just taking recreational classes. The classroom was adequate for our needs.
The students were all normal guys who expected more out of their connections with girls and had something holding them back. Nothing revelatory. In field they were good company—I winged and was winged in a lot of sets and no one really seemed unable to approach.
Future and Big Business outlined the Triad Model and spent all of the first day and most of the second and third days of classroom filling it out with nuance and detail and tackling different side-topics (storytelling, last minute resistance, etc.). You could wait until the bootcamp to hear all of this for the first time but you’d be giving yourself way too much to process. There’s no reason you can’t get a copy of Magic Bullets or at the very least read the free material on the Triad Model to get an idea of where they’re coming from. (Other than reading Love Systems material, the two main things that unfucked me enough to get where I felt justified taking a bootcamp were (1) approaching (duh) and (2) reading roissy.wordpress.com. I’m not trying to plug other outlets, just trying to give people an idea of where I’m coming from.)
But I knew I’d be getting my value in the field. Our venue was good—no cover, but quite classy, and lots of happy hunting for students and instructors alike. It had two different settings—a loud, dark, classed up club setting, and a calmer outdoor setting where it was easy to be heard.
I did a longish set outside while Big Business and Future each alternatively stepped in, demonstrated a little, observed a little, and went off. I think Future pulled me away to introduce me to Mr. M, Josh (from Project Rockstar), and Andrew (a former intern).
Josh from Project Rockstar was a rock for me on the first infield night. "So, have you done any yet?" "Yeah man, one. Went pretty well." "Ok, are you trying direct or indirect? What do you want to try?" "Ahhh . . . Let's do direct." "Okay man. We'll just go this way. Don't stop me, when you see a girl who really gets you just go and open her, and I'll notice and turn back." "Sounds good."
About twenty seconds later my first set goes this way, after I approach a two girls:
Me: "Hi. I just had to say, I noticed you just now, and you're really gorgeous. [To her friend, as she turns away] Not that you aren't very cute, you are, but there's just something about you [to the target]."
Friend: "What the fuck is wrong with you?"
Josh, eight seconds later: "Hurt, didn't it?"
Josh: "Awesome! Let's do some more."
I probably did a half-dozen with him that he observed and broke down for me. He was around all night giving great energy and going with anything I said. I opened a set later with the drug dealer routine, and after about twenty minutes Josh strolled by. I just shouted, "Listen, man, I don't have any coke for you. Go the fuck away! [Turning to the girls] Jeez, you let a guy do coke off your cock ONCE and he refuses to leave you the fuck alone!"
Anyway, that commenced my best weekend of approach experience to date. Future dropped in on my sets all weekend and was the best living example of pickup I’ve seen. He is a raging pickup gremlin, it’s not clear that he’s sane, and he probably should be stopped. Instead he's routinely paid, essentially to train and organize savage male raiding parties, lead them into villages of hapless females, and lay waste. The shrieks of delight and arousal are terrible to hear. If I'm ever to become a Big Man in this dark, barbarian setting, it largely will be the result of his terrifying example and the changes it helped trigger. May the gods help our civilization.
More particularly, he coached the hell out of me with face-to-face urgency a number of times. Once he demonstrated kino on me as if I were his target, since weak kino was one of my sticking points. I’m not sure how I feel about that kinetic memory and the way he was looking at me, but it skyrocketed my game.
Future also had a vibe that was amazing to feed off of once I started to figure out how. My last set, with another student, involved us both hitting on a super cute black girl. She was enjoying our attention, I was enjoying practicing my kino and directness. But after two minutes Future entered and the energy flow shifted palpably. Pretty soon the student and I were standing outside the current, even though Future wasn’t doing anything overt—he just had a hungry, natural look that took the target over. I observed this, reflected quickly, and turned to open the target’s two friends. That eventuated this exchange:
Me, to cute Latina target: “You are in serious trouble right now.”
Me: “If your friend doesn’t get you out of here in ten seconds I am going to make out with you.”
Her, blushing: “Hahaha! You are funny. Where are you from?”
Me: “No, no, no, you don’t understand. You can ask me any bullshit question you want. But if you’re still standing here in five seconds I am going to pull you in and make out with you.”
Her, a little turned on: “Oh my God!”
Me: [Pulls her in and starts biting and kissing her neck.] Okay, you’ve had enough.
[Pushes her away.]
Her, smiling and turning: “Oh my God, rude!
I wouldn't say I judged Big Business upon first observing him, exactly. But I did think to myself, "Well, I guess there's such a thing as power dork game. This will be interesting to see tonight." Of course, when I got to the venue, Big Business didn't walk up--he cruised--now looking smooth, suave, and cool as f*******k in his blazered-down getup. I'm sure getting laid regularly by the sort of girls instructors are accustomed to laying helps one get to that the relaxed, silky touch, but on the other hand Big Business is working with a depth of technical knowledge that he built through experience and that can be seriously disarming to watch and feel. This came through in particular when he winged in my sets. I forgot he was even there, but everything that was happening basically hinged on his . . . presence? But the moment he showed up I suddenly was in isolation with my target (at least during the second night, when I remembered to signal to my wings). And then he was gone, into more sets and dark artistry. Super hero stuff.
When I first arrived on Friday, sweating from running the four blocks from where my cab got stuck in traffic at 1:57, I got into the studio classroom and sat down next to this older blonde dude with an Australian accent, who came across pretty Pacific in mentality and sensibility. I recognized him. "You're Bullet. Savoy introduced you on his blog recently, I read about you." Bullet was solid and simple at all times. I hate to make light of his age--he's really just another guy in the group, nothing about his presence felt different to me--but he's definitely a man who doesn't appear to have many second thoughts at this stage in the game. Example: during the first night, when all of us were failing to identify our targets in set, Big Business (at least in my sets) would be charitable and just sort of work the group. Bullet by contrast awaited the signal and, the instant it failed to materialize, attracted my target (who had been practically clawing at me moments before). Game over, lesson learned. I didn't make that mistake a second time.
Mr. M showed up. The guy gives off tremendous humanity, and obviously he's got tremendous game. Motivation is when a short Asian guy is moving around casually in front of you, performing a circus act, in which Nordic blondes in tight dresses leap acrobatically through hoops and then wait attentively for treats, tongues hanging. Uh . . . I . . . would like to do that? Does it hurt me that I'm taller and white? Christ, just tell me what I need to do here!
Mr. M also was also present on part of Saturday afternoon and all of Sunday afternoon—big bootcamp bonus. So was Andrew, the second member of the Asian invasion and, I'm told, a former intern. Both were great to have in classroom. When you have five guys with through-the-roof game IQ all bouncing ideas off one another you’re bound to pick up something.
Andrew talked everything through with me at the end of the last infield night. I probably ought to have listened more instead of just talking about my observations, goals, and feeeeeeelings, but I still got plenty from him. Listen, this pursuit and this company have overlapping subcultures built up around them, and almost as much as anything else I was trying to get a sense of what it felt like to belong to that. Andrew is a reflective, stable guy who obviously puts great thought into what he's doing. He's a major credit to the group.
But what struck me was that I could say that about all of them. Prior to the bootcamp I’d identified Love Systems as the company and group that I trusted among everyone in the instructor industry. Still, the bootcamp partly was an audition for them. You can release superb books and audio on advanced seduction technique and get all of it right, and you can even transmit this information bodily in field to students. But I still want to see whether you’re a cool guy whom I’d trust to hang out with. No one in the group rubbed me the wrong way.
09-04-2010, 05:57 PM #2Certified Live Training Graduate Lounge Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Well this review is long overdue.
I have to preface this with saying that I was not intending to take this bootcamp as I was between jobs at the time Phero send me a pm to discuss this bootcamp (thanks a ton man for doing that). But even if I had not started my new job recently I would still have taken the bootcamp. Why? Because it is freaking life changing.
I know the whole "life changing" phrase gets thrown around a lot in these reviews but if you knew me in real life you would know I am as skeptical as they come. I have to say wholeheartdly the bootcamp not only showed me what was possible with women but it is also an investment in one's own self improvement not just in pickup but as a man.
I got there late because I had a job interview and felt like an ass for interrupting Future while he was lecturing. Not only that but I didn't bring a notebook either. (I was in job interview mode not bootcamp mode). Future was kind enough to take an early break for me to buy a notebook at the store in the corner.
I quickly got into bootcamp mode as Future is an awesome awesome instructor. He really knows his stuff and tells it in a manner that is both upbeat and direct. The lecture part of the bootcamp was great because it wasn't some abstract thing without examples. The examples Future and Big Business gave for each phase of the triad model (opening, transitioning, attraction, etc) were awesome and helped a lot.
As the day ended and night approached I started getting nervous about the infield part as full disclosure this would be my first nightgame cold approach ever in my life and I am freaking 29. Yes sad I know. lol
We got to the venue, which was very nice btw. Great choice by lovesystems since it is nice, trendy but you can actually talk and hear yourself unlike some other places. Anyway, I did my first set and obviously totally bombed it. haha. I thought I would get dejected by this but was happy I didn't.
We even had a bonus in that Mr M was there that night. I am a short guy and seeing Mr M a short asian guy probably my height do his first set on this gorgeous brunette and basically kinoing the hell out of her within 2 minutes was just what I needed. I also kept seeing him pulling a blonde that was basically all over him. I mean I always had that limiting believe of height in my head but that quickly went away after seeing him do his magic and I had a "fuck it, if he can do it I can do it" mentality after that.
The coaches were around if you had questions and from time to time came into your sets to see how things were going. Also seeing them in action was really great.
I think that night I opened 10-12 sets total.
The highlights were:
Worst-Told to fuck off by this gorgeous girl and her ugly friend when me and another student put the equivalent of fake snuggies on as a prop (at the request of Josh from project rockstar, awesome awesome guy made the night 1000 times better) and opened with something along the lines of "is this a snuggie or not?" I forget the exact opener.
Best - Opening this swedish girl and her friend, having over and hour combo with her and seeing that this shit really works. I number closed her to end my evening. (The interaction went so well that I saw her again the next two days before she went back as she was only here on vacation and she wants me to go visit her in sweden ).
The night sure had its ups and downs but the best thing I took out of it was that opening is a hell of a lot easier than I thought. I mean I had so much fun that night and learned so much that if that was it the bootcamp would have been well worth it.
Second day was similar in structure. The instructors went more in depth. We got an unexpected added bonus when Mr M taught a bit of attraction. I think this was not planned and just something that happened out of the blue so don't expect Mr M to be teaching unannounced in all the bootcamps lol. We just got lucky.
Future got into a lot of stuff but the thing that most resounded with me is his absolute thorough knowledge of comfort. The guy knows comfort and how to use it. Misused it can lead to the friend zone (one of my sticking points damn it ). Used correctly and a girl is going to be yours.
The infield part was again great. However this evening I opened less sets as like a dummy I invited the swedish girl I number closed from the previous evening out. The only reason I did this was because she was only here for vacation and had 3 days left and I wanted to see how far I could take it. I did get some sets in before she got there. Nothing too eventful that night other than my time with said swedish girl. (thanks to retthro for trying to help
However another thing I learned that night is that girls can have super bitch shields up but if you don't pussy out and plow through like a fucking man they will lower their bitch shields and start liking you.
For example, I opened one of the waitresses there thinking she was just a girl there looking for her friends. On my first approach she was very dismissive. (not answering my questions, looking away , etc.) She excused herself that she needed to get back to work and I said ok nice meeting you and left.
I bumped into her again maybe 20 minutes later and she asked me if I wanted bottle service. My reply was simply "no I want you". The reaction on her face was priceless. She turned from having a super bitch shield to giggling and we started having a normal conversation. I think I could have closed her but her stupid manager came and pulled her away. I even bumped into her a third time and she opened me however I was on my way to open sets with Mr M and just smiled and kept walking.
Moral of the story if the first approach doesn't work the second just might.
I got to class late because I was hanging out with that swedish girl (I got a thing for european girls lol). I hate having gotten there late as it seems I missed out on a great story by Future. The instructors gave each person individualized feedback and touched on other subjects such as texting/phone game, daygame, etc. Future gave his closing remarks and that was that.
I don't want anyone to think that these 3 days will make you an expert, far from it. But it will give you the tools necessary to begin your journey on this crazy thing we call pick up.
I think people who just read material on pickup or on the forums are short changing themselves by not taking a bootcamp. There is a difference on reading material and it being taught by an expert. That is why doctors become doctors by not just reading but attending classes and picking apart the brains of other doctors who have been practicing for years. Also seeing this stuff applied in real life is just a whole different thing. The little nuances you pick up by seeing the instructors in filed like body language and tonality for example cannot be replicated by reading words on a screen.
I am going to wrap this up because it is way too long. I just felt it deserved as much detail as possible as it was such a great great experience.
Future - Thanks dude your insights and teaching styel were awesome and the things you explained on comfort made it all click for me.
MrM - Awesome teacher. This guy exudes confidence. Just seeing another short guy do what he does was all that I needed to know I can eventually get good at this if I put the work in.
BigBusiness - Funny, funny dude. The cloroform(sp?) opener bit at the end of day 3 was freaking hilarious.
Bullet - Didn't get to work with him but everytime I saw him in the infield he was with some hot blonde lol.
Josh (Project Rockstar) - This guy is the fucking man. If it were not for him pushing me throughout day 1 I don't think I would have gotten as much out of the bootcamp as I could've. Thanks so much man.
TL, DR cliffs: I just realized that was freaking long and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to read it. I just want to emphasize for anyone reading to take a bootcamp. Even if you don't think you have the money just fucking take the bootcamp. 10 years from now you won't remember the 3k you had or didn't have but you will remember the 3 days that changed your life and set you on a journey of self improvement.
09-06-2010, 11:21 AM #3
Pablo, you had the best student pull of the boot camp, by a wide margin. Nice.
09-07-2010, 12:47 PM #4Love Systems Program Coordinator
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Hey man! Talking with you on the forums and on the phone I could tell how much this bootcamp would mean for your life so I'm really happy we were able able to get you out there!
Having seen them infield personally, Future, Mr. M and Big Business are unbelievable as well as there ability to teach this skill set to others.
09-07-2010, 10:30 PM #5
Actually, yeah, I failed to credit Phero. He didn't have to do too much to sell me--the idea was already in there pretty deep as something I knew I'd get to eventually. But he did prompt me on the Forums here after I'd posted a bit. The way these guys carry it everything comes across as good business. That's important.
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