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Discuss You ask... We answer. at the Relationships within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; You ask... We answer. Originally Posted by actives Sup Cedar and Harly. I was eating ...
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    Harlequin's Avatar
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    You ask... We answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by actives
    Sup Cedar and Harly. I was eating breakfast just now, and a question just hit me. I originally just had Cedar in mind b/c of the whole 'ultimate LTR - marriage' thing, but it would be interesting to hear a second opinion. I was thinking about Maverick (edit HQ: SIC, Actives means Orleans) leaving the community for his true love, thinking about all the guys who cheat deceitfully and then thinking about the guys who are openly promiscuous.
    For the longest time, most of society has pushed towards marriage and the thought of true love. On the same token, it looks down upon people who cheat and deceive their loved ones. However, there appears to be a new arrangement, and I'm not sure how people view it. I mean... Oprah and that little monkey author will say "If he can't love just you, then he's not worth it. Move on." or some crap like that. We all know how much power Oprah has! On a side note, that guy weirds me out. His permanently raised eyebrow scares the bejeezus out of me.
    I digress.
    What do your LTR's friends think about the arrangement? I can't think of many people who would accept this kind of agreement third person. I know it's easy to get caught up in the fun and attraction and not care what anybody thinks. But a 3rd person perspective totally changes the dynamics.
    So do the friends know? Do the ones who know agree? Any serious changes or actions in general you had to make in order to make the relationship work?
    Why I ask? Curiosity. Will knowing this info help me now? Maybe. Will having this info help me in the future? Most definitely.
    Btw, you can post this PM on the boards. I don't know how private or personal you want to keep information like this, and I especially didn't want to go calling out anyone.
    Thx in advance.
    The society of union as you have constructed it is based on fear & guilt... I am worlds away from this. God knows the nature of man & woman. Even in the Qur'an it is stated that the man can sustain four women that he will treat equally. The bible, written by men champions monogamy & we have the highest divorce rate in our history per ratio. I am the least religious person I know. Though I am the most faithful person I know. God is not religious & while you are wondering why I am harping on about religion, it is what we believe that defines us & shapes our society. Most of these beliefs are founded on what OTHER people believe. And anyone who disagrees with this statement is a fool. I seek no forgiveness for believing in a different world. There is no sin in my life.
    I am an honest man. It's my nature. It's human nature. When I got together with my GF I was already seeing someone casually & I made her aware of this in the first hour of our first date.
    I told her it was nothing serious & by our third date I'd ended it. There was one slip up on the way to Shanghai when I joined the mile high club & I told her about that. We'd been together two months.
    My honesty the reason I am still with her. The last guy she was with lied to her toward the end of their relationship. He was a Royal Marine & had an army of women available. He was a good guy at heart but he made some very big mistakes & his heart broke when my lady ended their sham of a relationship built on lies & deceit.
    I am absolutely true to my love, & I was with her exclusively for two & a half years. Then when my work finished & our LDR had gone into excessive periods of us being distant from each other I ended things. She thought I'd done this because of personal feelings. I owed her some money at the time, never good & although she is as strong as I am mentally, her emotional body never coped well with the idea of losing me to someone else.
    The reason I ended things is because the nature of my work was military & I'd been offered work overseas. I did not want to put her through the pain of not knowing about me as there would be no way I could contact her & three years away is too much to ask. I did not want to be the bad guy so I lead her into ending us, convinced her it was for the best & let her make the decision. I was satisfied that she'd convinced herself that it was her decision.
    It was hard to do yet I felt it was what I should do since I would be away three years.
    When I was due to leave & repaid the money I owed her & left the country. The sudden transition to speaking regularly to not at all had a greater toll than I could have imagined & I heard through a colleague that she wasn't dealing with the way I thought she would. It hit her hard. And the love within me threatened to destroy me should my mind attempt to contain it. We'd been due to marry on 7-7-7. I wrestled with my spirit & in the end love won through as it always does.
    When I came back we got together for new years & we had a week of the most blinding sex in our history. Including all my history. We were back physically & it was great but... we I hadn't said we were back together emotionally.
    I'd rejoined the community & in the time we were apart I'd returned to the alpha mindset & was again aware what I could offer women. She had two issues here. We were in the same country & able to see each other, yet we were not back in the true sense. She had lots of changes she had to make, like moving into London city from Surrey & I had to decide about my future with work & location.
    In order for us to work we have to implement these changes & in that time I'm a free agent. Love cannot be imprisoned. Love can be confined only to freedom. The soul consigned to limitless possibilities & there is no other nature for it in this world.
    So until I move back to London, & until my Columbine sorts the things out in her life, I will be here. I have many changes to make also. Like decide what work to do now I have abandoned my original line of work.
    I used to teach guys how to fit in & how to get what they wanted. How to groom & cultivate people & how to assimilate all they were learning into their frame. When my students applied this knowledge to women it was no different than game... albeit more arrant in effectiveness, though this is due to subterfuge mostly, which I now despise.
    It's not like I'm rampaging through girls. I've toned down a great deal & treat everyone around me with the respect I would expect of them. And as for third party friends of hers? yeah they can join in the party... I jest. What they think is based on their reality, not mine. I will not adjust my reality to fit anyone else’s if my reality serves love, serves life & serves God. Why should I change for another. I am what I am & all that is... so I cannot, will not change until I decide something is not working given what it is that I'm seeking to achieve.
    I'm absolutely secure with who I am & the girl I am with... she will either be as secure as me or she will lose me. No matter what happens, whether we end up together or not, I will be there for her. I haven't seen her in over a month. I refuse to go against my nature. It is not natural to have Shirley Bassey... sorry, celibacy. I always get those two mixed up. The particular girl I am with it almost irelevant. No human is more special than another one. If that seems cold to you then you are the coldest of all. Love is equal for all people. It is not a sword to weild & slay with. It is the core of your being. I am here for more reasons than just getting with a girl. That's a tiny fraction of the human experience, although it is one of the most beautiful experiences to be had.
    My life has seen more trauma & human catastrophes mere broken hearts. I'm the stronger now than I have ever been. No apology should ever be made regarding our nature.
    Life & Love are the same thing. They are precious & I will not lie to love. Because I will not lie to myself. I AM LOVE.
    I AM life... & so is everyone else. That is our nature.



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    Beautiful post Harly. I'm going to add my two cents.
    I was on the fringe of the community for the longest time. I was in a blissful 3 year LTR with an amazing woman. She was my high school sweetheart. You truly can't understand yourself or the game until you've been in at least one serious LTR. It changes your perspective on the game and gives you a lot more depth than solely having FB's. Falling in love is the greatest thing in the world.
    That being said, we are naturally driven to polygamy as well. Evolution demands it, society demands monogamy. However the monogamy that society demands is imposed by man.
    For the past six months I have lived a life of polygamy. I've gone through more girls in 6 months than most guys have in their lifetime up until my age. It's been a rollercoaster, it's been dramatic, it's been fantastic and it's been hell. I've never experienced a more drastic change in emotion from one day to the next. Time either flies by or crawls. It takes it's toll on your body but you need to get it out of your system.
    It's gotten to the point where Orleans has decided to "retire" from the game into an LTR. I'm reaching this point as well. My friends know about what I do. They see some of the women i date. I get asked for advice and I love giving it. A lot of people are envious of what we have. They only see the positive of the situation, not the confusion and heartache that goes along with it. Being known as a Don Juan is the one thing that has held me back tremendously from achieving my goal of a LTR.
    I've slowed down A lot lately and am not sarging nearly as much. I've been concentrating on 2 or 3 women trying to decide which one I want to start an LTR with. It's natural to go through phases. I'm sure my next LTR won't last more than a year. The difficult thing about drinking from the fountain of information is that it's difficult to walk away. There will always be a spot for monogamy and polygamy and there will always be groups that will either support or disdain them.
    Cheers.
    - Maverick

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    Nice one both.
    Maverick, I totally agree about not understanding unless you have been in love in a LTR. I had a 4 year relationship with my high school sweetheart until my last year of university...it was a rollercoaster with a couple of messy breaks but it certainly helps you realise what you want...I had to break it off when I realised we were so serious that engagement was the next step...and at 20 I was definately not ready for that!!...when we split up for the first time I saw her with her new bf and it nearly broke me...she now goes out with one of my (ex) friends, I see them regularly together and it doesn't bother me in the slightest and I'm honestly happy for her...getting over a true love is one of the toughest things any man can do and I have seen a good few of my mates reduced to a wreck over a break up...I feel a much better person for getting through that.
    I spent 2 years shagging around and have slept with more women in the last 6 months since discovering the community than i had in the previous 18. However I feel I may have created a monster.
    I, like Harlequin, found the girl I knew I could spend a long long time with a few months ago. However, also like Harlequin, I cheated on her at the weekend with a girl I gamed eariler this year...still trying to work out what to do with that one!
    I am struggling to keep the honesty that all PUA's live by at the moment and have spent the last few days telling four girls that regularly text/call asking to meet 'don't call me, I'll call you...'....which has been quite refreshing actually!
    Anyway, nice post...enjoyed it
    Sponge
    PS - Where's my PM, Harlequin!!?
    PPS - Unlucky arsenal!...fought your bollocks off!
    Last edited by Sponge; 05-17-2006 at 02:40 PM.
    The Sheet is life...life is The Sheet

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    Quote Originally Posted by actives
    Oprah and that little monkey author will say "If he can't love just you, then he's not worth it. Move on."
    People who say this fucked ten chicks before they got married. I did not. By putting my genetic need to procreate with multiple women on hold at an EARLY age, I set myself up to either divorce my wife later on, cheat, or enter into another arrangement. Which I did.
    Love and sex are seperate. Women understand this.
    Quote Originally Posted by actives
    What do your LTR's friends think about the arrangement?
    I get two reactions from girls. You are the most interesting man I've ever met, and You creep me out. The girls I creep out are easier to close, btw. Guys get weird on me. They warn me about fucking up my marriage, jealousy, finding a better woman, etc. They don't get it.
    Couples love it. My cousins love it. My brother rolls his eyes and says 'whatever blows your hair back.' My parents and her parents are blissfully unaware.
    Quote Originally Posted by actives
    I can't think of many people who would accept this kind of agreement third person.
    That's because you're a guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by actives
    Any serious changes or actions in general you had to make in order to make the relationship work?
    Frame it early on. I will grow old with my wife. I love her dearly. I will not leave her. I'm going out to be social and that might involve getting laid. I'll introduce her to other chicks time permitting. She understands this because I tell her constantly.
    Quote Originally Posted by actives
    Will having this info help me in the future? Most definitely.
    Keep your eyes open for an ebook in the fall.
    Assuming you're not a kidney harvester, we can chat in the car. - Cedar

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    Wow!

    These posts are truly amazing and inspiring. I've reread each one about two times as I feel my spirit growing with each pass through.
    I realize that I've become a social robot. I guess the reason is that I haven't felt love in the longest. For the past several months, my interaction with women have been more or less heartless. For me, they have been expendable. They've been learning experiences. Pretty much empty. I've taken the quick path of courtship that was laid out by those before me, but not realized the grounds I was walking on.
    As for mLTR, I realize that it will be my choice, and it will be my reality. You guys all your have your different experiences, but what you share is that your beliefs are strong. People around you will accept them.
    This is definitely a nice eye-opener - and totally unprecedented. I was actually just expecting a simple answer (which was naive considering those I directed my question towards), but I got a rush of incredible information. It's a good testament as to what people are missing when they base the community on what they view on the surface.
    I feel like a better person already with a much stronger and dynamic mindset. I'll probably be posting more as soon as my mouth can spit out what my brain is thinking.
    Btw... yeah. I meant Orleans. My bad, Mav.
    Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect - Coach Kerber (my 3rd grade Little League coach)

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    Part I: Philosophy.
    I've been in a lot of LTR's (some that even overlapped) and irl I have good friends that are mpau's who have honestly shared thier mind with me about life and love. I've come to conclude that love is limitless.
    For example, you love your mother and father alot, but each in slightly different ways. You may have siblings and you will love each of them in thier own way and the same is equally true for the good friends in your life. There is no conflict of interest, no social dilema about 'cheating', nada, none of it.
    Why should relationships be any different? The feelings may be more intimate and more intense but the dynamic remains the same. I love all of the women I've been with in thier own unique and special way. That doesn't diminish the amount of love I have for the next girl I enter into a relationship with rather it enchances the amount of love that I have to offer.
    Love exists outside of the mentally created concept of time. All the love we have (be it romatically inclined or not) can co-exist similtaneously and harmoneously if we allow it.
    In previous relationships, I've been hurt - alot! So has everyone else at some point in time. How long have you kept the pain from that one moment bottled up inside of you? In fact, even thinking about such an event right now may bring back a measure of the hurt you once felt. If you can do that for the pain you've felt - you can do the same for the love you felt.
    I guess I need to segway for second and mention that with love comes with the need for acceptance. I may love the women I've been with, but I accept that those relationships are over. In fact, I know that given the chance today - a relationship with them would be a really bad idea. Its the lack of that acceptance which leads oneitis (btw, I love that term) and the fustrations of your everyday chump. We are zen, we one with our ourselves and reality.
    ============================================
    Part II: A conversation.
    I dated a european girl for a while and while I don't think she meant to come right out and say this, she did tell me that in her country its accepted that men will find themselves a consort from time to time.
    I was able to read alot into those few words but in short it really says that the social programming that we americans have towards monagomy is not as universal around the rest of the world as it would seem.

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    Harlequin's Avatar
    Harlequin is offline Certified Live Training Graduate Lounge Member
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    A relationship can be a great place to sleep... living there requires a highly evolved Mind & Spirit.

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    You've never lived if you've never loved.
    I am all to familiar

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    Lessons learned and learned

    I made it past thirty before I fell seriously in love. It was that amazing feeling where you can see the future. Well it ended badly. Lots of reasons but the bottom line was I wanted to own it.
    Love and want are the two unlimited things I have found in my life.
    I would like to replace the latter with the former.
    The bottom line to this is if you feel your women have to be monogomous and you do not have to; you have not gotten where you need to be.
    My goal is to have the same standard for myself as I have for the woman or women than I am with.
    If I can achieve this before I die then maybe I will die happy.
    My rule of thumb so far is not to bring it up but if I am asked to give the answer honestly. If not asked and they prefer to keep their own belief I do not encourage or discourage it.
    At times this can be a bitch just based on logistics.
    Floruit
    Just because you believe it doesn't make it true.

    FLORUIT
    Cowboy Philosopher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlequin
    A relationship can be a great place to sleep... living there requires a highly evolved Mind & Spirit.
    actually i love this line, great description
    On the day I was born,The nurses all gathered 'round, And they gazed in wide wonder, At the joy they had found

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