An MLTR Framing Discussion

Discuss An MLTR Framing Discussion at the Relationships within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; fup, Originally Posted by fup * Why is she so fixated on "That other whore". ...

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  1. #11
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    fup,
    Quote Originally Posted by fup
    * Why is she so fixated on "That other whore". I even reminded her, that there are OTHER women I'm dating too. I explained that dumping the one I've just seen naked wouldn't fix the relationship from her perspective, but she doesn't see it that way.
    * Are there ways to help her feel good about our relationship? She mentioned several times the idea that being with me when I was sexual with someone else makes her a fool.
    Please comment/ask if you notice anything else.
    fup
    I hope this is no faux pas on my part but I do believe I have an easy routine that you can use right away with MLTR #1. I know I have little experience to back my advice but I do know that this is immediately effective, especially if it is done face-to-face.
    So the demands of MLTR #1 remind me of when Style was trying to get a threesome going in The Game. What he mentioned that was most important was assuaging the lead sled dog. In your case, MLTR #1 needs to have all her worries soothed and sorted before she can accept the competition. I don't read much about Ross Jeffries and SS too much on this forum for whatever reason that I'm not going to speculate. However, before there was Ross, there was Richard Bandler, the father of NLP with some additional credit given to Grinder and Erickson. To answer your questions, I would like to suggest the following NLP techniques that are detailed in Using Your Brain for a Change by good ole Dick.
    More than likely, MLTR #1 visualizes several still images/pictures as well as movies in her head about you being with other women. These images are triggering emotional responses. In this instance, the response are negative to your goal. It is possible to have her alter the images and movies in a way that will negate the negative response. After that, you can go back and boost an existing memory she has of you that evokes a positive result such as comfort, security, sex, etc. This is a two step process but still very simple.
    So whenever the subject of "other whores" arises, ask her to close her eyes and visualize the image she has of you with other women. "Do you see me with other women in you mind? Can you imagine me with other women? Do you have an image in your mind of me with other women?" Even is she says "No" or if she is b/sing you, have her imagine you with other women right then. This process will still work the same. Note that it is not important to have her tell you the context of the image (place, people, activities going on in the image).
    When she has the image in her mind, ask her if it is a still image like a picture or if it is a moving image like a movie. This is critical.
    If it is a still image:
    -While she is visualing the image, ask her to turn down all the colors in the image so that it is gray or black & white.
    -Then ask her to shrink the image down to a very small, infinitesimal size like that of a speck.
    -Finally ask her that once the image has reached its smallest size, to just blow it away from her into the nothingness until it disappears.
    If it is a movie:
    -Ask her if she is sees the movie through her own eyes or if she sees herself in the movie (looking at a movie of herself from a third person POV). If it is not first person POV (from her own eyes), ask her to pause the movie at the very beginning and then tell her to step into the movie.
    -Ask her to now play the movie and see everything from her own eyes all the way to the very end. Ask her to feel what she feels and hear what she hears. Ask her to stop the movie at the end and to tell you when she is done. This could take several seconds for her to do so have patience and confidence of what you are doing.
    -When she tells you she is done, ask her to play the movie backwards from end to beginning. Tell her that people will walk backwards and their mouths will move backwards and the sounds will sound funny/weird. It is important that she sees everything from the first person POV when this happens.
    -When she is finished with that, ask her to play the movie forward from beginning to end but with loud circus music in the background this time. Sing the song for her just in case she can't recall. *DOO da doo do doo da DOO da doo do* Tell her to play the movie forward and imagine hearing the music drowning everything out.
    -Now you can stop here but I think it would be best if you asked her to step outside of the movie so she could watch herself go though it again while keeping the circus music. If she finds the circus music funny, ask her if she feels herself smiling or laughing while watching the movie play forward. If she is laughing at herself, this is good because she can't take it seriously. If she can't imagine circus music ask her to imagine marching band music. The more ridiculus the music or noise is, the better. Note that some people play an internal monologue with a picture or a movie that does narrating. If this is the case, ask her give the internal voice a funny, high pitched, goofy tone like Goofy or something like that. You can do this for both the picture and movie.
    Close:
    -Ask her to imagine a time when she felt really happy with you. Doesn't matter if it's a picture or a movie.
    -Ask her to make the colors in the picture brighter and to add a warm, soft glow around the border of the picture.
    -Ask her to let the picture grow in size until is takes up her entire visual field.
    -Ask her to feel what she feels, hear what she hears, concentrate on connection, comfort, security, and trust she feels.
    -Finally, kiss her or do something really smooth and PUA like.
    That's it. Basically what you are doing with the still image and the movie is altering them in a way that she can't have intense emotional reactions to. For just about every person, dulling a picture gray and shrinking its size will greatly reduce any reaction to it. Doing just the opposite will also increase the reactions. For the movie, it is better is make a serious movie into a comedy by adding a ridiculous soundtrack.
    If she has both a picture and a movie, you can run each routine back-to-back. It will actually work better if you run this pretty fast and do several iterations of it but a single iteration will be just as affective.
    Now you can really fine tune this process if you want. I just gave you some very general and common controls to alter. If you want to fine tune this, just ask her to think of a vacation in which she had lots of fun and was really happy. You will have to ask a lot of detailed questions about sound, smells, other sense (Bandler calls these universal senses, submodalities) etc. Try to replicate her image in your mind. The submodalities are what cause the emotional reaction to the image and not so much the context such as the beach or whatever. Have her alter each submodality one by one to figure out which one has the single greatest affect over the whole image. Do this same thing again but with a negative memory. Find out which submodality affects the negative responses the most. When you got that, you can run the routine I gave you right there on the spot. I've field tested this several times and I know that it doesn't matter if the chick KNOWS exactly what you are doing to her. As long as she is willing to participate, the routine will be effective.
    This is just a quick fix for the time. You may have to do this again next time you see her. There are other techniques and far more detail in Bandler's Using Your Brain for a Change that can permanently stamp out her worries. For example you could reframe, use the swish, and anchor feelings and images associated with comfort, trust, and connection (all the things that NLP is meant for). I won't go into details about these techniques as I lack the necessary experience. Also, having an iron-wall frame like Harlequin would work just as well. But for the rest of us....
    Hope I am not repeating old information and that I am providing enough clarity on the matter. You can't really mess this up. It either works or she thinks your weird.
    -Kid
    Last edited by Kid Noir; 08-21-2006 at 09:13 PM.



  2. #12
    fup
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    Thanks

    Thanks guys. I still have so much to learn, truely. Harlequin, I really like your perspective and enjoy your posts.
    Brutal honesty has always served me very well too. Just as Harlequin advised, I had been completely frank with MLTR#1 that she could be important to me, and would be treated with respect, but not be the only woman for me. It only went wrong with her when I started to sugar coat things, omit things, and let her expectations drift from reality (shame on me). Things got quite ugly, but appear to be back on track (time will tell). Surprisingly it looks like things may be even better if we make it through. [Funny the bi-curious thing was mentioned.... She *is*. Sorta reminded us of a project we've been neglectling. 8-) ]
    But I digress-- Basically I threw away 1/2 a day of work to talk it out with her. Her feelings are very strong for me, which obviously helps, and after investing the time and caring in working out the issues (and absorbing a small amount of verbal abuse from her) she basically came back to the reality that I was acting congruent with the expectations I set initially (which had been conveniently forgotten). We talked about how we could continue to be open and honest about the state of things, while still being discreet and not overly verbose on the details.
    Kid Noir- Interesting NLP stuff.
    fup

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starman
    OK...when and how to frame relationships that arise from dating situations...
    Don't bring it up. Logical discussions on this topic never work. Joke about your other girlfriends. That's all you can do.
    Assuming you're not a kidney harvester, we can chat in the car. - Cedar

  4. #14
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    Topic needs much more discussion

    I wrote much of this before reading the thread as I wrote the post and then searched to see if there was a proper thread to look at... much of it sill applies to the discussion, however, and I think this is a discussion that should be on-going; not one that happens 2 or 3 days ever other month.
    So being that I am fresh in Chicago and finally feeling settled down... I've started putting some thought towards developing an MLTR situation for myself.
    The unfortunate reality is that I've come up with more questions than answers. So I will be thinking "out loud" here for a while.
    I had gotten involved with an HB7 recently. I was completely open and honest with her. "I don't want a relationship. I am new in the city. I will be meeting and seeing other women." Most women will appreciate this honesty, but a switch flipped in her head as soon as we had sex. All of a sudden, she was just assuming/expecting that our weekends would be spent together. Of course, I had to let her go. She tried telling me that no woman would be "okay" with how I wanted to arrange the situation. I asked her if she was really going to make a stereotype of all women. She said "yes".
    I don't agree with her. I do agree that not all women are MLTR material because they aren't emotionally solid enough to handle it -- and HB7 was definitely not capable.
    I'm all about being open & honest. I just wonder to what degree one should go with things. I suppose it's not really MLTR if you are just "dating", is it? Do you allow her to date others while being involved with you? Or are you her only LTR while you are allowed to have others? What details do you share with each of your LTRs about the others? Do you provide any/all information when asked -- as part of your open & honest policy?
    My biggest thing about being honest with them is sexual health. I wouldn't want them being with a bunch of other guys without telling me and putting my health at risk; and I wouldn't do that to a girl I care for because of all the same reasons. It's a respect thing. I intend to respect her body the same as I would want her to respect mine and not put either of us in a risky situation.
    I think there's a lot to discuss here and hopefully we can get a decent exchange going.
    "He who doesn't fail is he who doesn't try."
    Get your ass in the field... try... fail... learn.
    "Call me sick, I don't care... but clean asshole tastes good." --CF Miles, circa 2001

  5. #15
    fup
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    CF, Glad you brought it up. This is a topic very close to my heart! ...and I agree that much of MLTR-theory appears un-explored. I'm having ALOT of early success MLTR'ing (4 stable and honest MLTRs right now, and I'm still sarging a couple times a week, and am still currently working some # closes and day2's in that direction)
    The sexual health thing is a real issue. So far I think I've been lucky; my women do not appear to be motivated to sleep with others, or seek alternative LTRs (yet!), even when they either know, or have a hint, that I'm with others. But you can never be sure, so there is some risk, even practicing safe sex.
    Other helpful things for me:
    * Once per week: The best advice I ever saw was trying to limit in-person time to once per week. I break the rule occasionally, if there is a good reason, but still try to space it out to at least 4 days.
    * Your cellphone is not a leash: You don't _have_ to answer your phone EVER, so send it to voicemail sometimes, even for no reason. Luckily I've always been bad with the phone. E.g. if I don't feel like picking up, I just won't, even if I'm not with someone else.
    * Small doses of brutal honesty: Make honesty work FOR YOU not AGAINST YOU. Be prepared to answer brutally honest sometimes, but don't go out of your way to volunteer too many details they don't want/need. Often I find a woman does not want the answer even to basic questions about other women, even if they ask it. But sometimes you need to give her a taste of brutal honesty just to get her to stop asking those questions. Instead of lying, changing the subject, or giving them a chance to retract the question has served me well. e.g. "Are you sure you want to discuss this right now?"
    * Emotionally Wounded: My PUA experience actually started as a result of having my wife leave me. I lean on this "emotionally wounded" status quite a bit. Sounds terrible, but it is a great get out of jail free card, for a whole range of messy LTR issues including trust, "why won't he commit" to the "L-word", etc. Interested if others find this, or if there is an alternative solution that is as easy to maintain.
    * Weekend get aways are probably a no-no: This flows from the 7 day rule above, but I hurt my 1st MLTR's feelings pretty bad by ACTING like her bf, at which point she conveniently "forgot" our discussions about my seeing other women.
    * MLTRs will not last for ever. Be giving, generous, fun, but don't get too attached.
    * Strong Frame: Last but certainly not least! If you show any weakness on the issues that keep MLTR's possible, you're probably screwed. I'm nuts enough to internally feel I want and deserve MLTRs, so it actually feels surprisingly natural to me, but others that are say... more sane, or at least less selfish than I, may have difficult pulling this off at first.
    Again, I like this topic and would enjoy continuing to discuss the issues (or even new theory!) with you and others.
    fup

  6. #16
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    • Phone: Ha! I share that with you, fup. I'm a horrible phone person. Many times just don't answer. In fact, most of the time. Unless I'm trying to make plans and organize shit. I'm not much of a "called to say hi" kinda person.
    • I totally agree with being honest. I now try to bend over backwards in order to tell the truth. It's very powerful. I'd recommend Practicing Radical Honesty by Brad Blanton, Ph.D. It's a great read and brings to the surface many of the individual harms by the societal pressure to "be nice".
    • As for your "emotionally wounded" ploy. I might frown upon it as it is somewhat dishonest (unless it really is true). As for the L-word, I'd go with something like: "Love doesn't mean anything anymore. People throw that word around like they're letting someone have $1 for a can of soda. I take pride in not being emotionally careless. I make damn sure it's love before I start bring it into the picture... love tends to hurt people more often than not." You could apply the same concept to committment.

    I don't really have any MLTR experience under my belt. But I plan to go for it and am very interested in talk theory for now. I think it can help greatly while working things in the field and getting serious with women that I meet.
    "He who doesn't fail is he who doesn't try."
    Get your ass in the field... try... fail... learn.
    "Call me sick, I don't care... but clean asshole tastes good." --CF Miles, circa 2001

  7. #17
    fup
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    Quote Originally Posted by CF Miles View Post
    • As for your "emotionally wounded" ploy. I might frown upon it as it is somewhat dishonest (unless it really is true). As for the L-word, I'd go with something like: "Love doesn't mean anything anymore. People throw that word around like they're letting someone have $1 for a can of soda. I take pride in not being emotionally careless. I make damn sure it's love before I start bring it into the picture... love tends to hurt people more often than not." You could apply the same concept to committment.
    Frown if you like. haha. 8-)
    But seriously: it is technically true that I'm wounded, because I've given up on trusting anyone that much ever again, but I sorta lean on the that status. It's a bit of a crutch (I'm still pretty new to MLTR).
    BTW: I notice you are very analytical in your approach (like I am), and one suggestion I might have for you is that, in many of the aspects of MLTR, you're better off not having a "rational" discussion at all with her. Odds are good that it's not going to go well no matter how compelling your argument is.
    You might be coming to it from a standpoint that "I'm not doing anything wrong", but you mentioned your last LTR: 'no woman would be "okay" with how I wanted to arrange the situation.' She's right: if you are going to have to sell the details upfront and explicitly, you are going to trigger responses that you won't like.
    In practice, I've been very surprised how much my "high value" MLTR's have been able to adjust to. But if I gave them an upfront, verbal contract of what I'm "giving" versus "refusing" them, it would not go well. Just don't push those buttons if you don't have to.
    Emphasize the positive and all that.
    fup

  8. #18
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    more good reading

    Hey, fup (and others who are interested in this topic), I found another thread that made for good reading...
    check it out
    unfortunately, being that this really seems to be a "learn as you go" kinda thing... there won't be much to share in a timely fashion. But I will surely return with information that I think applies as soon as it is available to me.
    "He who doesn't fail is he who doesn't try."
    Get your ass in the field... try... fail... learn.
    "Call me sick, I don't care... but clean asshole tastes good." --CF Miles, circa 2001

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