Hey, how r u today?

[Love Handle]

That’s my favourite opener, although I’m very new to the game so there could well be scope for improvement.

I’ve only become aware of the "seduction community" over the past year or so and have only really taken an active interest over the past week or two. Having looked through a lot of websites, I’ve started reading Magic Bullets and I’m very impressed with the clear structure of its presentation and the very open/flexible approach of Savoy (as opposed to the rather glib “five magic steps to the perfect seduction” approach of many of the others). I’m also reading Natural Game by Gambler, which is of interest largely because the author is a fellow Brit and I think there may be some subtle cultural differences in approaching game on the two sides of the pond.

I was pretty much the classic shy, tongue-tied AFC as a teenager and didn’t get much better until I was into my thirties and discovered/had the courage to access the sex industry. From thereon the romantic/sexual side of my game improved immeasurably. I have developed strong ongoing relationships with a number of women around the world that I have met this way but have usually relied on some form of payment to set up at least the first encounter. However, over the past couple of years I have had some success with online dating sites where opening is much less pressurised (I joined up a new site for the first time three days ago and made my first date today, using the opener at the top of this post). Part of my interest in developing my own game is the discovery through using such sites that technique and strategy are essential if you are to get anywhere (learn to get over rejections, always use open questions in chatrooms, avoid flattery and if you don’ get a number the first time you chat you almost certainly never will, or even if you do it won’t be worth having, etc.). I’ve also always believed that the quality of any kind of sexual encounter is ultimately determined by what YOU bring to the party (which is where a lot of guys fall into a terrible downward spiral of dissatisfaction when accessing women in the sex industry). Thus it is likely I will develop a particular interest in “inner game”.

I have often been a rebel/outsider and this may well be the case with this environment. I’m not much of a male bonder and the company of other men has never been of great interest to me. I enjoy the company of women in every sense. A good encounter with a woman does not necessarily have to have a sexual outcome for me and I have no problem in walking away if I don’t feel the right kind of connection. A smaller number of really good sexual encounters is more important to me than a large number of average ones. Likewise a good attitude/personality in a woman is as important to me as looks alone.

I also have very limited interest in white British women (I’m white and British myself) and have a particular interest in black women – fortunately I live in central London which means that there are plenty of suitable options available on literally every street I walk down.

I am writing this post to introduce myself to the board and see if there any useful comments from those further down the road of game development. In particular how much should my age (approaching 47) affect my outlook or expectations? I have been toying with the idea of setting myself a target of seducing a woman of at least half my age by the time of my next birthday at the end of the year (I'll leave you to do the maths). Does this sound like a worthwhile challenge to focus my efforts or just the superficial peccadillo of a middle-aged ego?

Ciao,

Love Handle

This is the definitive work on pickup and dating theory, written by an acknowledged master of the game - a guy who’s TRAINED many of the new “gurus” on the scene!

[Foam101]

Sounds like your more on the ball then most people here. However, you are a older than most but Ill give you some credit. Check out some of the threads for older guys, I think there is a 30+ thread.

Personally it sounds to me like your trying to rediscover what you missed out on when you were younger. However, being at your age I wouldn't focus my attention on superficial meaningless bar hookups.

[buckboii]

i said how was your day and this girl did not answer.. on facebook yet she online. how do i recover, i think i showed to much interest. and i only talk to her on facebook, so i think i need to talk to more girls to let her chase me, not the other way around right?

[Love Handle]

Originally Posted by buckboii

i said how was your day and this girl did not answer.. on facebook yet she online. how do i recover, i think i showed to much interest. and i only talk to her on facebook, so i think i need to talk to more girls to let her chase me, not the other way around right?

Don't know much about facebook but on dating sites such as AFF you can make literally HUNDREDS of approaches before getting any responses (and most of those will be dead ends). From what I'm reading in Magic Bullets, etc. even the pros expect a high proportion of approaches not to go to completion (i.e sex) but just use the chance to take things as far as they can and enhance their opening and transitioning skills. In your case it might be a better idea to concentrate more on trying loads of other openers (without expecting all or any of them to go anywhere) rather than trying to recover one that hasn't worked out.

I mentioned in my original post above that I had signed up to a new dating site in past week (one that is specifically targeted at black people and others interested in dating black people). I have sent 118 flirts/emails all of which have been ignored or rejected and made two advances via the sites real time messenger using the above opener. The first led to the date I mentioned (and the fact that she wants to meet for a drink in a hotel bar is encouraging) and the second, like your girl on facebook, was ignored. I suspect that whatever system or opener is used most guys will have to try a lot of different girls and accept knockbacks before getting results.

If you are going to get hung up about specific girls a stage as early as opening in the process then you will (literally) be playing the wrong game!

This is the definitive work on pickup and dating theory, written by an acknowledged master of the game - a guy who’s TRAINED many of the new “gurus” on the scene!

[buckboii]

Originally Posted by Love Handle

Don't know much about facebook but on dating sites such as AFF you can make literally HUNDREDS of approaches before getting any responses (and most of those will be dead ends). From what I'm reading in Magic Bullets, etc. even the pros expect a high proportion of approaches not to go to completion (i.e sex) but just use the chance to take things as far as they can and enhance their opening and transitioning skills. In your case it might be a better idea to concentrate more on trying loads of other openers (without expecting all or any of them to go anywhere) rather than trying to recover one that hasn't worked out.

I mentioned in my original post above that I had signed up to a new dating site in past week (one that is specifically targeted at black people and others interested in dating black people). I have sent 118 flirts/emails all of which have been ignored or rejected and made two advances via the sites real time messenger using the above opener. The first led to the date I mentioned (and the fact that she wants to meet for a drink in a hotel bar is encouraging) and the second, like your girl on facebook, was ignored. I suspect that whatever system or opener is used most guys will have to try a lot of different girls and accept knockbacks before getting results.

If you are going to get hung up about specific girls a stage as early as opening in the process then you will (literally) be playing the wrong game!

so im reading the Magic Bullets now. Does that mean what's in the book also applies on online sites like facebook and your dating sites?

Ive met this girl once already and we hit it off at a party. well not really hit it off but we have that connection, so Ive met her, talked to her and hung out with her but that was a party(loud, lots of people).

She showed IOI such as:

1) she said I love you to me, even though she was not drunk because i was helping cleaning the house even though i was drunk.
2) I was lying on the sofa with no pillow and she had the pillow but i didnt feel like asking so i just layed there then she turns around and was like "aww baby, heres the pillow"
3) I said hey cutie to her on facebook, she replied "aww, hi sweetie "
4) during the party we spoke to each other in our own language besides English
5) while i was lying on the sofa and she was in the kitchen she would drop by and sit down next to me and try to talk but i was to dumb founded to say anything good. (basically blew it there didnt i?)



Anyway, she replied after a day. I think ill just play it by the book now instead of being myself, clearly thats not working. Btw, i had no opener or anything when i first started talking to her, i was convinced that i was able to do it alone, wrong lol. Alright so now my plan is not to chase and sound to desperate. One more thing, do i need to open in every conversation? because its facebook right, were in a conversation right now, its not an instant one but still a conversation.

I want to restart with opener but i dont know how atm.

Im still currently reading the Magic Bullets still.

This is the definitive work on pickup and dating theory, written by an acknowledged master of the game - a guy who’s TRAINED many of the new “gurus” on the scene!

[JIron]

What a second? I'm confused, are you saying you paid hookers or met girls in bars?

Also, that Hey, how are you today opener is really an AFC opener online. I swear that over 60% of a woman's messages if not more online are that line if not a variation of that line.

[Love Handle]

Originally Posted by JIron

What a second? I'm confused, are you saying you paid hookers or met girls in bars?

A bit of both. I've "mongered" (as in whore monger) around the world but mainly in Spanish speaking countries. In Spanish there is a word called "puta", which is often used to refer to a kind of part time/semi pro working girl who generally hang round in bars looking for guys to give them something to help pay the bills or just give them a decent night out (as opposed to "prostituta" which refers to a full-time hooker). Such girls will usually approach you so there isn't really any need for openers as such (although as inferred in my original post if you know how to flirt a little and make some sort of conversation it will still improve the quality of the encounter no end, even if you are paying the girl). In my experience most girls in the sex industry, in any part of the world that aren't being forced into it, aren't any different to anyone else under the surface (although I've always steered well clear of any druggies and the few problems I have encountered have always been with such girls that have got under the radar).

BTW I don't have any problem using (or becoming friends) with women that work in the sex industry ("men in glass houses" or whatever). However, I just can't afford London prices everyday of the week so it seems a good idea to raise my normal game.

Also, that Hey, how are you today opener is really an AFC opener online. I swear that over 60% of a woman's messages if not more online are that line if not a variation of that line.

As I've said one of the reasons I'm here is to learn and this opener can no doubt be improved. That said, I don't think openers matter that much on dating sites (I've no idea about facebook or whatever which could be different). Most women look closely at your pic/profile before replying so it is the quality of these and your ability to perform in IM chat that really matter.

[JIron]

Originally Posted by Love Handle

A bit of both. I've "mongered" (as in whore monger) around the world but mainly in Spanish speaking countries. In Spanish there is a word called "puta", which is often used to refer to a kind of part time/semi pro working girl who generally hang round in bars looking for guys to give them something to help pay the bills or just give them a decent night out (as opposed to "prostituta" which refers to a full-time hooker). Such girls will usually approach you so there isn't really any need for openers as such (although as inferred in my original post if you know how to flirt a little and make some sort of conversation it will still improve the quality of the encounter no end, even if you are paying the girl). In my experience most girls in the sex industry, in any part of the world that aren't being forced into it, aren't any different to anyone else under the surface (although I've always steered well clear of any druggies and the few problems I have encountered have always been with such girls that have got under the radar).

BTW I don't have any problem using (or becoming friends) with women that work in the sex industry ("men in glass houses" or whatever). However, I just can't afford London prices everyday of the week so it seems a good idea to raise my normal game.

Also, that Hey, how are you today opener is really an AFC opener online. I swear that over 60% of a woman's messages if not more online are that line if not a variation of that line.

As I've said one of the reasons I'm here is to learn and this opener can no doubt be improved. That said, I don't think openers matter that much on dating sites (I've no idea about facebook or whatever which could be different). Most women look closely at your pic/profile before replying so it is the quality of these and your ability to perform in IM chat that really matter.

No on dating sites, your opener matters. If anything it gets them to actually view your profile and not next you right away because you sent the same opener that 50 other guys did. So that means nothing really sets you apart.

[Love Handle]

Originally Posted by JIron

No on dating sites, your opener matters. If anything it gets them to actually view your profile and not next you right away because you sent the same opener that 50 other guys did. So that means nothing really sets you apart.

Do you have any facts to back up your opinion? I must have discussed this point with at least 50 WOMEN that use dating sites and based on that I would say you are wrong. Also, the biggest improvement in the number of responses I've experienced in three or four years of using these sites was something completely non-text based (posting a face pic).

[kraken]

It took a lot of time before I started getting responses online. What works best for me is a SHORT message either about:

a. A specific interest highlighted in her profile or

b. A playful neg about said profile

I don't bother with the profiles that are the typical vague chickspeack such as, "I'm a caring, outgoing, adventurous woman looking for Mr. Right, and I like to do whatever's fun." unless its with ridicule.They have to give you something to work with.