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Here we go guys, I'm starting a Q&A on Direct ...
Here we go guys, I'm starting a Q&A on Direct Game .
Direct Game and Day Game are my specialities and I would welcome any questions you guys have on any aspect of: making a Direct Opener work; transitions; how direct game fits into the Love Systems Triad model and any other questions you may have. I will answer all of your questions for the next few weeks.
Direct Game is my default style of game for the reason that I find it exceptionally romantic and manly. I live my life with truth and honesty, and expressing my desire unashamedly, with no agenda or regrets is integral to this way of life. I've made this work during the day and during the night, with single girls, groups of girls and mixed sets.
I think there is no better way to feel like a man than to walk up to a girl and tell her what you like about her.
I think the reason why I find your advice helpful, Farmer , is because you sound a lot like me in some respects (judging by your background bio). So you know where I'm coming from, and your advice seems to really suit me. I'm all-for day game and direct approach too.
I'm eagerly looking forward to bombarding you with questions for days on end now. Hahaha
Here are a few questions to get started!
1. Direct Game / Day Game and Attraction---how important is being physically attractive?
This is a strange aspect for me. In many ways, I'm attractive; very well dressed, impeccably groomed. But in other ways, I'm definitely not the stereotypical hunk---I'm short at 5'6" and quite slender. So I'm not sure where I stand overall on the Instant Attraction-o-meter... Even with the aforementioned drawbacks, is direct game fine, or should I go with indirect game if I don't look like a bronzed musclebound hunk?
2. What do you do with girls who may be NICE and FRIENDLY after you directly approach them, but you're not sure if they're being nice purely out of social convention? (Social politeness...especially prevalent in the Southern USA!) How do you know if they're actually attracted to you?
You actually answered this question for me before on another thread, but I think it would be helpful to note it here as well if you have any other thoughts on it.
3. How do you differentiate between Day Game from Social Circle Game ?
This may be a dumb question. Is "Day Game " purely "cold approach" game (meaning, Day Game is all about approaching women you don't already know)? Let's give a hypothetical example and say that every week or two I meet up with the same girl in some sort of active daytime social situation. We've talked a few times and know each other a little, sort of like quasi-friends or acquaintances. If I were to start "gaming" her, would I try a Day Game or more of a Social Circle style?
4. How do you recover from a blow-out?
Let's say that I go up to a girl in the day, do my best direct approach, and unlike 90% of other women out there, she totally rejects me in a rude, freaked, or stand-offish manner? Let's say that I'm in a public daytime venue and there may be other women I want to approach there as well... Obviously, getting blown out by one woman isn't going to look very good to all of the others out there. How do I recover from this, and how can I go about approaching the other women around who may have seen the disastrous interaction?
5. What do you do when you approach a beautiful girl, get her interest, qualify her...and then find out that she is completely not your type?
I've actually had this happen before. I see some gorgeous girl, approach her, qualify her, have a great conversation...but the more I learn about her, the less I end up liking her. Maybe our personalities clash. Maybe we don't share the same important, inner values. Whatever the case, what should I do? How should I get out this situation without making her feel awkward, especially if she's attracted to me?
"Excuse me. I don't do this often but I just had to say something...etc"
or a
"Excuse me. I absolutely love your style. You have a great fashion sense."?
OR
"Pardon me. But do you know where I can find a good.... blah blah?"
I guess I'm just asking about how direct do you prefer your day game to be? I want to make sure I project my interest but I don't want to come off too forward. Day game just seems so awkward but so promising at the same time lol.
Farmer , can you give us all a break down including the kind of tonality and length of pauses of a typical direct approach from your experience. Specifics such as how long you would pause for after delivering the opener before transitioning .
I think it would be helpful to be able to create a picture of a master at work for those who haven't seen you in action. Myself included.
Here we go guys, I'm starting a Q&A on Direct Game .
Direct Game and Day Game are my specialities and I would welcome any questions you guys have on any aspect of: making a Direct Opener work; transitions; how direct game fits into the Love Systems Triad model and any other questions you may have. I will answer all of your questions for the next few weeks.
Direct Game is my default style of game for the reason that I find it exceptionally romantic and manly. I live my life with truth and honesty, and expressing my desire unashamedly, with no agenda or regrets is integral to this way of life. I've made this work during the day and during the night, with single girls, groups of girls and mixed sets.
I think there is no better way to feel like a man than to walk up to a girl and tell her what you like about her.
Let the questions roll....
Well, I am not experienced at this (at all) but if you approach a women, in daygame , with something like
" I think you are so cute so I just had to come over and speak with you"
and she gives a possitive ansver, like "oh thank you so much!" and stops to talk to you.
How do you proceed without starting to ask boring questions like where are you from and so?
Do you use very specific compliment openers, or generic "cute/beautiful/gorgeous" openers?
If you do specific compliments, could you give some examples? Do you ever compliment them on their hairstyle and what exactly would you say (I always feel awkward telling them I like their hair, it just seems like kind of a creepy opener).
I live in a town where a lot of women just wear generic clothing and I find it hard to compliment them specifically on their fashion...do you just use generic openers in this case?
Wow, great these are some great questions. I'll take them one by one. I've replied up until Saff88's questions.
Originally Posted by Vapor
What are the typical things a guy transitioning to direct do wrong in the first couple minutes?
Reaction Seeking
Body Language
Expecting her to do the work
A lot of times, a guy will deliver the direct opener in a reaction seeking way. To do this is incongruent - you are trying to show you are a high value guy who has no shame and problem with expressing his desire for her, but at the same time you are expecting her to give you the reaction you want. If you truly were a high value guy, you wouldn't need her approval or a great reaction.
Body language is difficult to fix in writing and it is why bootcamps and workshops are such great value, you get to see how you should move and stand in person. But generally, guys need to have their body language spot on for a direct approach, otherwise, again, you will come across as incongruent, and incongruency is weird to girls. Stand up straight, slow down your movements, look her in the eye.
Lastly, related to first one, a guy will expect her to do the work after a direct approach. Approching direct is not a magic bullet to make her attracted to you. It is true that Attraction can happen quicker with a direct approach, but you still need to be the one directing and dominating the conversation. You have shown yourself to be a confident guy, now you need to be able to speak as a confident guy. Sometimes the girl will give you a good reaction and will say things you can play off - but most of the time she will have the rabbit-caught-in-the-headlights look and you'll need to direct the conversation.
Originally Posted by Sensual Sorcery
1. Direct Game / Day Game and Attraction---how important is being physically attractive?
This is a strange aspect for me. In many ways, I'm attractive; very well dressed, impeccably groomed. But in other ways, I'm definitely not the stereotypical hunk---I'm short at 5'6" and quite slender. So I'm not sure where I stand overall on the Instant Attraction-o-meter... Even with the aforementioned drawbacks, is direct game fine, or should I go with indirect game if I don't look like a bronzed musclebound hunk?
Pure physical looks for guys aren't as important as you think. Love Systems methods are predicated on the fact that women are attracted to Social Value . Ways to convey social value are the attraction switches - humour , wealth, social intuition, pre-selection etc. Traditional good looks take a very small role in this. It is true that Brad Pitt looks convey a lot of social value to a woman, but guys can do a lot to make themselves 'look' attractive and therefore convey social value : good dress sense, healthy skin, well-groomed etc. Fashion and Health play a major role, and are things that you can fix.
In a Direct Approach it is even more important to dress your best whenever you go out, whether in a bar or just going shopping. In a direct approach, women have to make snap judgements about you. It's a concept called 'Thin Slicing', introduced by Malcom Gladwell - a woman will look at you and think about all the other guys she's met who match your overall description, and will project onto you all those guys' other traits (confidence, good with women etc) in order to make a judgement about you. Therefore dress like a rockstar and she will expect you to act like a rockstar; dress like a lawyer and she will expect you to act that same way.
Originally Posted by Sensual Sorcery
2. What do you do with girls who may be NICE and FRIENDLY after you directly approach them, but you're not sure if they're being nice purely out of social convention? (Social politeness...especially prevalent in the Southern USA!) How do you know if they're actually attracted to you?
The thing with a direct approach is that girls are less likely to act in this way just to be social. You've made it clear that you are attracted to her looks, and if she is acting this way, then she is at least is giving you the opportunity to keep going.
However, remember the Gay Bar IOI test. Anything that a girl does to you, that you wouldn't do to a guy in a gay bar, can be taken as an IOI. Ie. if a guy came up to you in a gay bar and told you he thought you looked sexy in that outfit, would you act in a nice and friendly way to him, or would you politely tell him you weren't interested?
Secondly, the true litmus test of Attraction is to escalate. If she is being nice and friendly, and you escalate either emotionally (into Qualification ), logistically (moving her around the bar) or physically (touching her beyond social touching) and she is receptive to any or all of those, you can be sure that she has some attraction for you. If she shuts down any of these, you may need to work harder to attract her, or go and find another girl.
Originally Posted by Sensual Sorcery
3. How do you differentiate between Day Game from Social Circle Game ?
This may be a dumb question. Is "Day Game" purely "cold approach" game (meaning, Day Game is all about approaching women you don't already know)? Let's give a hypothetical example and say that every week or two I meet up with the same girl in some sort of active daytime social situation. We've talked a few times and know each other a little, sort of like quasi-friends or acquaintances. If I were to start "gaming" her, would I try a Day Game or more of a Social Circle style?
Yes this will be Social Circle . Going direct now would change the dynamic too much. You can progress slower with her because you know you'll be seeing her again. At a base level, Day Game is cold approach and Social Circle is warm approach, but you can use a lot of the conversational, rapport tactics from day game in your social circle .
Originally Posted by Sensual Sorcery
4. How do you recover from a blow-out?
Let's say that I go up to a girl in the day, do my best direct approach, and unlike 90% of other women out there, she totally rejects me in a rude, freaked, or stand-offish manner? Let's say that I'm in a public daytime venue and there may be other women I want to approach there as well... Obviously, getting blown out by one woman isn't going to look very good to all of the others out there. How do I recover from this, and how can I go about approaching the other women around who may have seen the disastrous interaction?
This is partly an inner game issue. Don't let any blowout affect you. Especially when going Direct, there is more of a risk/reward ratio, where fewer girls are likely to talk to you, but if they do they are more likely to go on a date with you.
During the day, it depends on what venue it is. If you are in a small social venue, not a bar or a club, where people can hear you and she has friends in the same place, then this is more social circle . But if going direct here, you need to make sure you convey as many attraction switches as you can before you approach her. Social proof the room. Apart from that, most of the time when approaches don't go well, to other people it just looks like you exchanged a few words, and then you left. As long as you leave smiling, people will think it was a good interaction.
Originally Posted by Sensual Sorcery
5. What do you do when you approach a beautiful girl, get her interest, qualify her...and then find out that she is completely not your type?
I've actually had this happen before. I see some gorgeous girl, approach her, qualify her, have a great conversation...but the more I learn about her, the less I end up liking her. Maybe our personalities clash. Maybe we don't share the same important, inner values. Whatever the case, what should I do? How should I get out this situation without making her feel awkward, especially if she's attracted to me?
You should tell her it was nice to meet her, and you enjoyed talking to her, and to have a nice day. Then leave. If she doesn't meet your standards or you have nothing in common, leave. Life is too short to hang around people you don't share common values with.
"Excuse me. I don't do this often but I just had to say something...etc"
or a
"Excuse me. I absolutely love your style. You have a great fashion sense."?
OR
"Pardon me. But do you know where I can find a good.... blah blah?"
I want to make sure I project my interest but I don't want to come off too forward.
The last one is indirect and not direct, and is more difficult to transition into a normal conversation in day game .
Different situtations will call for different things. In a club or a bar, where girls are out having fun and expect to get hit on, I would go super direct and say something like "You are absolutely fucking gorgeous, I had to meet you. I'm Farmer ", or "You look really sexy in that dress, I had to come and meet you". But tone it down in Day game and use one of your above two lines - it's more romantic and fitting to the setting. And it's even better if compliment something specific to her.
The line where you think you're being too forward is a lot further than you think. You should have the mindset that you are expressing your desire unashamedly. As long as you aren't overtly sexual during the day, it is almost impossible to come over as "too" forward. There's nothing wrong with being forward, it is incredibly attractive to girls, if done in the right way and isn't sleazy and sexual in the daytime.
Originally Posted by VentureLS
Farmer , can you give us all a break down including the kind of tonality and length of pauses of a typical direct approach from your experience. Specifics such as how long you would pause for after delivering the opener before transitioning .
I think it would be helpful to be able to create a picture of a master at work for those who haven't seen you in action. Myself included.
Usually it's a loud club, so you need to get close to her otherwise your direct approach will get lost in the music and lose its effect. Go up to her, lean into her ear and deliver your line. Then stand back and look her directly in the eye and pause for 2 to 3 seconds. It sounds long but it has a profound effect. She's processing what you just said and looking directly into your eyes, which has a powerful effect. Introduce yourself. After that, it's more about pausing when you are talking mid-sentence to create tension and suspense. Usually 2 to 3 seconds again is fine. For tonality, you are speaking with a deep voice, slowly and pausing again eg "Hi.....you look.....absolutely....fucking gorgeous.....in that dress.............I had to come and meet you..............I'm farmer". It conveys confidence to speak slowly and with conviction.
During the day, the same as above but you don't need to get so close. Pausing is very powerful during the day. In both instances, you want to create that movie moment for her - speaking with a resonant voice, slowly, with pauses and varying the pitch slightly all create a pattern of your speech that should draw her into a bubble where it is just you two in this moment while the rest of the world bustles around you. I like the romantic connotations of this.
Originally Posted by Zakthos
if you approach a women, in daygame , with something like
" I think you are so cute so I just had to come over and speak with you"
and she gives a possitive ansver, like "oh thank you so much!" and stops to talk to you.
How do you proceed without starting to ask boring questions like where are you from and so?
In day game , these aren't as boring as you'd think. The aim in day game is to have a normal conversation where you can relate to her in various ways. Asking 'where are you from' will be interesting if you know where you're going with it, can transition into other conversational threads smoothly, and can transition into that question while grounding it to something. It will be boring if you just ask her a series of rapport-seeking questions without offering anything about yourself that is relevant to what she said. For example, this would be an interesting snippet of conversation using what you suggested: [starting after the opener and exchange of names]
Me: "You know, you have a great fashion sense, I'm betting you're not from around here, where are you from?"
Her: "Thanks! Yeah I'm actually from New York"
Me: "Oh that's cool, I've never been to New York but a friend of mine works over there and she loves it. What are you doing in London, just travelling around?"
Her: "Yeah, I flew in last week and then I'm off to France"
Me: "That's interesting, I find girls who travel really attractive. I've actually just got back from Marrakech and blah blah blah" - and you're away into an attractive conversation about travelling.
Generally, you want to ask her a question and then offer some value of your own that is relevant to her reply, like me saying I have a friend who's in New York (a female friend, showing possible pre-selection ). Follow up her answer with some statements about yourself before asking her another question.
Originally Posted by vibe3
Do you use very specific compliment openers, or generic "cute/beautiful/gorgeous" openers?
If you do specific compliments, could you give some examples? Do you ever compliment them on their hairstyle and what exactly would you say (I always feel awkward telling them I like their hair, it just seems like kind of a creepy opener).
I live in a town where a lot of women just wear generic clothing and I find it hard to compliment them specifically on their fashion...do you just use generic openers in this case?
If I notice something instantly about her that I like I will use that. But only if I truly find it attractive, otherwise it will sound forced. If you do this a lot, you find that you're able to spot things that you like about girls quicker. A corrollary to this is that you begin to notice what you like and don't like about women.
To make the hair compliment work, you have to tell her why you like it and why you like it on her: "I just had to come and tell you that the way your hair cascades over your shoulders is really alluring". It might sound strange to you, but start speaking like this because girls react emotional to words like this, and it makes you stand out from other guys who don't use words like that.
If you find it difficult to compliment on fashion, then you can use the way she walks, or that she had a confident air about her.
Otherwise, yes I'll just use a generic one like "Excuse me, I just saw you walking past and I had to come and meet you, I think you're absolutely gorgeous"
Originally Posted by Saffa88
Thank you for the opportunity dude.
Questions:
1) I'm guessing you don't have your "game face" on all the time, so how do you adjust your frame/mindset to what's required in an approach?
2) Do you do any "homework" on your inner game ? If so, what?
3) What lifestyle changes were the turning point in your life that not only affected your game but outlook on life in general?
1. I worked hard for a long time to cultivate an approach habit. Keychain has a really good article on this in his classic writings. Having said that, sometimes I really don't feel like approaching and I can't find my game face, or she is absolutely amazing. In these cases, the measure of a man is whether he chooses to succumb to his natural impulses, or take that risk. I let the adrenaline flow around my body, and I use the nervousness to my advantage - I pretend that it is excitement and that it is my body telling me that this is something worth doing.
2. I used to. Not a lot anymore. After you approach so many girls, you find that you inner game starts to align more normally with your outer game naturally. The inner game work I used to do was mostly visualisation - the book 'Psycho Cybernetics ' was the book that kickstarted my game and general outlook on life. I would visualise all my approaches going well, and I would visualise anything she would say and I would imagine myself saying the right things in reply. When I could run through an entire interaction in my head, everything I was going to say, and the things she could say back, and the things I would reply, and imagine it going well, I knew I was ready to go out and try whatever line or conversational thread I was going to try.
Some other books that helped me on the emotional front were 'Pulling your own strings' and 'Your Erroneous Zones ' both by Wayne Dwyer. These heloed me a lot with dealing with rejection.
3. Pursuing my hobbies. Without a doubt, my life had a much better quality when I worked out what I really wanted to do in my life, and then took the steps to make those happen. I am a marathon runner and I want to eventually run ultra-marathons; I play the piano; and I want to start a business that allows me to travel the world. Those three things, when I concentrated on them, improved my general well-being tenfold. I have goals for all of them, and knowing that I am working towards them makes me very happy. In addition, being passionate about things in your life, your hobbies and your life goals, make you a very very very attractive person. Having a passion and a purpose makes your life so much more fulfilling.
This is the definitive work on pickup and dating theory, written by an acknowledged master of the game - a guy who’s TRAINED many of the new “gurus” on the scene!
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