Discuss Mystery Method Bootcamp Reviews -Compiled old Reviews- at the Love Systems Reviews within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; Dude, awesome review. Best MM review I've ever read....
Dude, awesome review. Best MM review I've ever read.
When I am writing in red, it's as an Attraction Forums mod or admin. When I write in normal text, it's just me.
The Toronto bootcamp was an amazing experience.
I'm going to be honest that I had no idea what to expect. I was just really anxious and hoping that I would come out satisfied.
There were many things that I wanted out of this bootcamp:
1. To see what good really looks like.
2. To gain a solid foundation of knowledge about the method.
3. To have my own personal questions answered in a thorough manner.
4. To start me on the right track, with an unclouded mind.
Well, I DEFINITELY got all of these, along with much more than I expected.
Let's break down the two main aspects: Seminar and Workshop.
I had read the VAH several times, watched the DVDs, listened to the Audio Series and approached close to 100 sets before the bootcamp.
Understandably, at least to me, I was not expecting the seminar to make a huge difference or anything. Well, let's just say that there's a reason the Seminar-Only portion costs $950.
They went over EVERYTHING in the method. And, in greater detail than I could've imagined. The best part, though, was the fact that at any time you could stop them, and they would answer any question you have.
Let me just say right here that Tenmagnet and Masters are amazing instructors. Almost every answer they gave to a question had me seeing an aspect of MM from a totally different angle. You can just tell when they talk that the knowledge they have is based on TONS of field experience. These guys know their shit.
And there was also new content in the seminar that I had just never heard of in any other MM product.
All-in-all, the seminar was awesome because of the depth of knowledge, and the Q&A.
Before entering the bootcamp, I could open every couple of sets that I approached. And out of those, I could stay to A3 at the absolute most. Often times, I would find myself 'prematurely-ejecting' because I was too dependant on the material and couldn't vibe with the sets. Needless to say, it got frustrating at times.
Well, holy shit, has that changed gentlemen.
The first night was officially the demo night, but that did not stop us from approaching A LOT of sets. I was paired up with Kelemvor for the first half of this night, who gave me a lot of very good advice, especially on creating attraction and sexual tension. The last half of the night was with Masters and Tenmagnet, who were throwing me into countless sets.
At the end of the first night, Tenmagnet broke down all of the students' sticking points. Not exaggerating at all, Tenmagnet was so thorough and detailed in the breakdown that I was pretty much convinced right there that the rest of the weekend was going to be phenomenal...and I wasn't let down. He rhymed off my main sticking points and explained them all, and they were so dead on. It was like he had some sort of extrasensory pickup sense.
The next night, after taking my sticking points into consideration, I calibrated and started opening sets like a madman again. This time with Masters at the helm, with me and Eisenstein. For someone who just became an approach coach, Masters looked like he had been doing this for a long time. After each set, Masters would go into detail about EVERYTHING in the set, from nitpicking our body language, to a detailed breakdown of how we progressed in the set. It was outstanding.
The last half of the night, Tenmagnet was winging some of my sets, allowing me to focus on the target, while simultaneously learning some very cool things from his own demonstration. By this point, I was getting into comfort with nearly every set I opened.
By the time we left, very attractive sets were opening us outside because of our social proof. Finally, Hysteria and I capped off the night running game on two HBs in the Hotel Lobby who looked like they just got out of the swimming pool.
In total, the workshop was mindblowing with the feedback received, but also an amazing time with the fun time that we had. The money was sooooo worth it. The instructors were incredibly informative and extremely fun guys to hang out with. My game feels entirely different now and in a VERY GOOD way. For those of you that are skeptical, I can honestly say that I cannot imagine how this wouldn't help you immensely. Thanks again everyone for a phenomenal weekend!
Last edited by Hysteria; 08-01-2006 at 07:58 PM.
Guys, it was awesome working with you this weekend. I'm so glad you all had excellent experiences.
Hysteria and Crono - you guys are an excellent team, in part because you guys are so different. You will get good at different things first, and then teach one another.
Eisenstein - You have a really strong identity that you need to develop material around. Persue your ambition, and build a repitoire of material that conveys your identity. In two years, you'll be both getting places in your field, and getting girls left, right and centre. They go together.
Also, find a wingman in b-town... you need to keep your momentum up.
You guys were awesome, and you can totally email me if you have any questions, or just to chat.
Sounds like you guys had a blast.
I am jealous, looks like you got waaaay better value for money than the one i went to Our instructor student ratio was a little 'different' to yours!
I did just meet the black eyed peas though in the executive lounge here in Paris! So i'm not too bitter! Remember kids, always carry a spare firewire cable for when budding rock stars leave theirs at home!! good for robtaining rock star email addresses for free concert stuff!
There is no 'try' only 'do'
Atlanta MM Bootcamp
At first I wasn't going to write a review, but the more I read other BC reviews the more annoyed I am at the quality I got at mine.
I attended the June 9-11 Bootcamp in Atlanta. The instructors were Lovedrop, Mehow, Dynamic and Squirrel.
Things started off on the wrong foot before the bootcamp even began. On the BC webpage it clearly states that the BC starts at 4. So of course I make all my travel arrangements to arrive at the BC by 4. Well one week prior to the BC I get an email from the MM corp saying it starts at 2. Well I had a big meeting I had planned well in advance so I could be in Atlanta by 4 and I had to pull some shit to change the meeting times and travel plans and everything else to make it there on time.
So I show up and there are TWELVE (12) students. I was under the impression from the website that there would be MAX eight students. This is what caused problems all weekend.
The lecture was great. Lovedrop really knows his stuff and how to teach it. There were a few things he didn't cover that much in depth but he definitely filled his time with value.
The in field is where it went astray.
During the demo sets Dynamic did great. He would tell everyone what he was about to go do and do it. Great to watch. He would then break down what happened.
Mehow would tell everyone he was about to go do a set and do it. It was great to watch. But then I asked him for a breakdown and he goes "Well, I did the Mehow Method. I can't tell you about it because I'm here under contract to teach MM." ... thanks.
Squirrel went and did a demo set without telling us he was going in and I didnt notice him until he was in comfort. He stayed in the one set a long time so didn't get much out of that. Comfort is boring to watch.
Lovedrop didn't demo any sets.
Then it came time for the students to approach. This is where having TWELVE guys + four instructors (for a total of 16 people in field!!) makes it hard. Now also understand that over half the guys in the BC hadn't read the VAH, werent very into the community and couldnt approach.
Lovedrop was walking around "making sure everyone got their value" so in truth the instructor-student ratio was 4:1.
Within 15 minutes every set in the bar had been approached. Within 30 we were being asked if we were trying to pick them up or if we were in some weird question club. After an hour we had to bounce to a new venue. So we took our 16 guys and marched down the street to a bigger club.
IT took about an hour and a half to sarge out that club and I got pretty good at plowing though people calling me a pickup guy by the end of the night.
Night two we stayed at the same venue all night. By the end of the night the instructors solution to opinion openers not working was "go direct" but that wasnt working super well either because everyone in the club was using the same attract routines. I did have one good set that I managed to plow through after being the second person to use PVC devil on them.
During night 2 Squirrel picked up a chick in the line to the club and then buddied up with one of the students and they all went to the VIP area the student bought and noone else had access to. Sunday Squirrel was heard bragging about how he talked to her all night and timebridged her to fly out to San Diego and how she was just his type... While he was supposed to be teaching. So now the student teacher ratio was 11-2! Lovedrop started coaching towards the end of the night and it helped a little.
At one point I was in set for about 10 minutes and when I looked up there was noone to be found. Dynamic was the one that had sent me into the set and 20 minutes later when I finally found him I asked him about it and he said he didn't see it.
Now my sticking point going into the BC was keeping attraction and reaching the hook point. Thats what I hoped to get out of the BC. I don't think the instructors got close enough to hear my set once. Because the ratio was so piss poor and because all the other students were so bad. They might do 2 or 3 sets for my 1 (when they werent getting AA) that went 5-10 min and constantly bother the instructor. Because of that the only critique I got the entire time was "Your body language looked good" or "you had good kino there" or "That move was alpha!". Hardly any critique or criticism.
I'd tell Mehow they werent hooking or I ran out of things to say and his advice was "You just need more material" or when I said I wasnt that good at vibing "Buy Juggler's book!". They couldnt critique any of my a2 or a3 game because they never heard any sets or had time to stand around and listen to them because they constantly had 3 other students buzzing around them that couldnt stay in set 3 minutes.
The best breakdown I had all weekend was at the very end of the second night when I was walking with a student and Lovedrop and he was ready to go and I stopped him and said watch me do this set. It didnt last very long and he couldnt hear what was going on but he gave me a good breakdown of what he saw. All my other breakdowns had just been compliments of what they liked, very few tips or pointers.
So I left the BC with no noticable progress on my sticking points and just a little more in depth knowledge of the game (I was well read before I went but the lecture did clarify and expand on some stuff). I feel it would have been a much more enjoyable experience if they hadn't overbooked it (especially when they say 8 seats, I expect there to be 8 seats!) and the instructors could have paid more attention to your sets and actually instructed you on more than body language and kino.
At first I thought eh and let it slide but after reading reviews like Toronto where the guys had a great instructor ratio and had a blast I kinda feel cheated.
If I ever do any more in field training again 2 days of 1-1 is way more valuable than a bootcamp IMO and if you know what you're doing and don't need a seminar. The instructors had great game and seemed to know their stuff but with the overbooking there was nothing they could do to help you past the approach without alienating the other students.
Last edited by Levo; 08-02-2006 at 07:22 AM.
May bullshit baffle brains.
you too eh! I posted on Hysterias thread.
Unfortunately, this is a pretty accurate review of my experience too.
Lovedrop's seminar was fantastic, Dynamic rocked (when you could get hold of him) Mehow was good at demo'ing and telling you what you did WELL and squirrel was err where WAS squirrel??
I'm feeling pretty bummed too after reading Hysteria's review. 1:1 !! Sounds a lot better than 4 : where is he???
There is no 'try' only 'do'
Let me say a few more thigns about Lovedrops lecture. It did NOT follow the syallabus that is layed out on the website. It was five hours each day totaling 15 hours (not 17.5 hours advertised on the site).
It was ALL information. There were no exercises. Other bootcamp reviews talk about approaching instructors and getting critiqued the first day. Didnt happen. They talk about a story writing exercise where they write out their DHV storys and the instructors help critique them. Didnt happen. They talk about an identity exercise where you talk about youself and hash it out. Didn't happen.
He talked about writing stories and forming an identity but no intructors ever helped the students do anything. In fact there werent even any coaches around during sundays lecture. They had all already left.
Lovedrop didn't have an outline or slides or anything, it was 15 hours of lecture on whatever was in his mind. The man definately knows his stuff but I was lookign forward to the storywriting and approaching exercises and we didn't get it.
That said I still stand by my comment that it was a great lecture. I wonder what he would have left out if he had done the exercises because its all very good info I wouldnt want to go without.
Last edited by Levo; 08-02-2006 at 04:48 AM.
May bullshit baffle brains.
I'm glad you shared this review Levo because I have been looking into attending a Bootcamp in the next few months.
I've only seen positive reviews for the MM Bootcamp but in a single thread, two people have come away unsatisified, leaving me slightly hesitant to fork over a couple thousand dollars (as a student) for a chance at a medicore weekend and no "noticeable progress".
If your sticking points are A1 and A2, I hear Pickup101's Art of Attraction is a killer bootcamp to go to. Hopefully they could provide you with the guidance you desire.
Hello. I'm Johnny Caesche.
If you really want personal attention, I would sign up for individual training. One of the main reasons Hysteria and I decided to sign up for the T.O. bootcamp was because the ratio was really good. If that wasn't the case, we probably would've split on individual training with Tenmagnet.
Originally Posted by Caesche
Some points to consider-
First I'm sorry to hear about your experiences on your program! I'm going to list a couple things for your consideration-
The website lists " (usually no more than 8-10 students) ". 12 man groups for Master Instructors is not uncommon and usually isnt a problem on any level with the right number of approach coaches. If there is a huge interest in a specific program Instructors will increase the class size but add Instructors so the quality of instruction remains at a high level. Master Instructors lead the seminars and in field portions of workshops and use experienced Approach Coaches to even out the instructor to student ratio in field so each student still gets a fair amount of critique. A single approach coach can handle at least 3 students in field and I know this because I've done this my self on several occasions.
The Instructors have to cater to the students but sometimes specific students need more unexpected help than others. When in field and it suddenly becomes apparent a student or students are going to need more attention, Instructors will be reassigned to help those students who require more instruction to reach an average level where needed. For a large Bootcamp to be catered to every level of game from the completely inexperienced to the advanced is unrealistic and unfair unless each student is getting a 1 on 1 ratio. If the instructors stopped helping the rest of the class which I guess had very little experience going into the program then those students would have been unsatisfied. Thus, instructors will try and balance their time with students in relation to the entire class's needs. For more personal training obviously one on one instructions are the way to go.
I think it's awesome you were able to see skilled instructors in field demonstrating the material, but I also think your concerns are completely valid. Large bootcamps are not always catered to the advanced guys in the community because of the very reasons I mentioned earlier. For more advanced instruction I will ALWAYS recommend personal training or contacting the instructors before the program to find out the exact details of their workshop and let them know of any specific instruction or attention you'd like to see on your workshop. The more information instructors have the better they can cater to your needs.
Finally, while every Instructor is well versed and skilled in the Mystery Method, Instructors often vary in their personal teaching methods. Some instructing methods are more preferable to different types of students. I recommend researching the instructor who's program you wish to attend ahead of time and determine based on all the information available which instructor you think would be best suited to your needs. This goes for every single program available in the community. Instructors vary in every company and some students get along with specific instructors better or worse than others. Programs MUST have varied personalities and experiences in their instructors to allow for a dynamic adaptable company. Unfortunately many guys don't have the opportunity to research the program’s instructors ahead of time.
If anyone ever has an unsatisfactory experience on one of Mystery Method's programs please let us know via email or phones as soon as possible so we can help you resolve whatever issues you experienced! Never hesitate in writing a review as the reviews offer invaluable feedback we must have to better adjust our programs to the students needs.
Please feel free to email firstname.lastname@example.org for support or contact Savoy@mysterymethod.com with any pressing concerns you have.
If you have any other questions you can also pm instructors, ac's, or admins here on the forums at any time.
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