Discuss Fader Bootcamp - Boston MA, Mar 2008 at the Love Systems Reviews within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; Fader Bootcamp - Boston MA, Mar 2008
I'll add more to this review soon.
Fader Bootcamp - Boston MA, Mar 2008
I'll add more to this review soon.
Fader is an amazing instructor, and I mean that in the sense that he's actually a teacher. He really cares about making sure that you understand everything and get results. The thing about him is that he is professional in the best sense, and non-professional in the best sense.
What does that mean? It means that he's professional in that he wants to give you the most for your money, and does everything as advertised. Both the seminar and field time were really useful, and cleared up and sorted out a lot of ideas for me, even though I had a decent grasp on theory before starting.
He's non-professional in that he does not use his teacher status to put up a wall between you and him. He went overtime all three days. He didn't mind answering questions at any point. The first night in the field, he even let me stay in his hotel room when it would've been tough for me to make it home!
I was decent at approaching before the boot, i.e. not tons of AA, certainly lower than average.
But the best thing about the weekend was something I didn't expect to get from a course on pickup. Fader totally called me out on being an insecure arrogant asshole. People have called me out on that before, but I never respected them enough to change. He really f'd with my head, in a good way.
It's weird how the community uses the idea "Inner Game". As if being a solid, confident person was only a part of game, for picking up girls. F no. Inner Game is just being a human being. I feel way better about my ability to do that now. I cannot imagine any instructor being willing to shake up my world the way Fader did. After he rocked me like that, pickup fell into its proper place. All the pressure was gone. This was just a skill set that I was in the process of learning. Sometimes things go well, sometimes they don't. It took me a long time to get warmed up the second night, since my mind and body were a tired blur. But it barely affected my confidence, since Fader had so effectively disconnected my self-perception from my pickup success. The difference between the first and second night was amazing, in terms of the removal of the pressure to try to find approval from others, even including the instructor.
I have not been to other bootcamps, so I can only comment for this instructor. If you're thinking of dropping the cash, it's a tough call. It's a lot of dough, and if you're already improving well on your own, maybe you don't need it. If you're stuck, and have known about pickup for awhile, but everything is a huge jumble for you still, take the bootcamp, especially if you get Fader. He will put you on the path. Definitely.
MM is pretty cheap. You're paying a lot, it would be nice to get some freebies like Magic Bullets and the Routines manual. We're paying $3000 bucks, and these are ebooks for crying out loud.
More to come as I think about it....
Life Changing Experience
Man, I don't even know where to begin.
Fader literally changed my life. Not only is Fader an incredible teacher, but he is also one of the most genuine, honest, and down to earth guys I've ever met in my life. I've seen a few PUA's before, but it's one thing to be good at something and another to teach it to someone in a way that they will clearly understand it and put it to use. Fader explains things in such a way that it is so easy to understand. I was skeptical coming into this bootcamp, especially with my first impression of Fader becuase he was so... average looking. However as the bootcamp progressed, Fader said it best: "The true self is always coming through.", and I saw that he truly cared and wanted me succeed.
I have read alot of the material out there and watched and listened to hours of DVD's and mp3's. I would say I have a good understanding of this stuff "on paper" - however I have never been able to translate it infield properly. I have huge inner game issues and chronic AA. That was before the bootcamp.
The first night I think I opened about 12 sets. Fader pushed me to open sets all night. I was kinda bummed becuase I was so nervous didn't even try number closing the first night. Fader said to me "when was the last time you went out and opened 12 sets in one night?" Then I realized the answer was: NEVER
The second night I had a few number closes, a few kisses on the cheek and alot of hugs. To other people that might be nothing, but for me that is incredible lol. But the best part was I had so much fucking fun doing so. I think I opened at least 15+ sets that night.
Bottom line is that Fader not only help me get rid of my chronic AA and improved my game in such a big way, but he has helped me become a better person overall. I know I will only continue to improve. I only wish I took this bootcamp earlier!
I wanted to keep this short becuase honestly there's really no words that can truly express how thankful I am.
Last edited by Ricta99; 03-31-2008 at 07:04 PM.
Reason: Additonal stuff
Fader is the man! Thank you so much for enlighteing me this weekend. It was a life changing experiience. Fader is a great teacher. He's a motivator when he needs to be and he gives you a kick in the ass if you need it. But most of all he's down to earth geniune. He empathized with all the students cause he had been there himself. I admired his honestly and his straightforward style. I was a little hesitant to do this bootcamp but then Fader made everyone comfortable and really understood where everyone was coming from. I think he did an outstanding job conveying the info and he didn't move on until he was sure that everyone had grasped the concepts. Although I didn't go in the filed with him now that I've seen his body of work I'm dying to get in the filed and have him bring my game to another level. Thank you Fader! I hope TMM realizes what a great instructor they have and more importantly what a great person they have too!
Thanks guys! I dont think I have ever taught that much and that little detour we took through the frames & influence was like watching a dream of mine come to life right before my very eyes.
My highlights included geting behind the bar in the hotel and making myself and T Kettles on the rocks (2 limes of course).
Totally blanking on a set and recovering with ummm soooooo nice shoes, blanking again, and going to the set sorry guys usually I am much smoother then this, turning to R and going well thats how you blowout a set!!!
Lowlights included my credit card being held hostage. I actually spoke to the owner of the bar Monday.
Amazing times thank you all so much.
Boston 3/28/08 - 3/30/08 with Fader
I have read the reviews posted by my compatriots from the Boston boot camp and they seem very accurate. However, to anyone reading this I would like to go further than just saying that my "game" improved.
I am 5'6 155 lbs., I don't make more than $50,000 a year and have never been considered classically good looking. Although, I have never been accused of being a wallflower when it comes to approaching girls in bars and clubs, it has never been an area of comfort or strength for me. I bring this all up because if you are reading this and trying to decide whether or not you would like to take a boot camp, I would like to imagine you can identify with something I have said above.
I chose the boot camp in Boston with Fader primarily on its small size, 3 students to 1 instructor seemed to promise the best chance of success.
First about Fader, I identified with him. He was NOT 6'4, 210 lbs of muscle... he was never the star high school quarter back with loads of "natural" game. He was your average, everyday guy working in the computer industry. That was reassuring. If it worked for him - it would work for me.
We immediately hit it off... I have a very good nose for BS and he never tripped that meter when we talked. ( Real men mix metaphors) I hope from what I just wrote and from the other reviews you can get a sense of who Fader is.
Let me tell you about how the boot camp affected me.
Friday (Seminar)- the afternoon started off with a few minor bumps (you may ask me privately for details if you like), however Fader handled them with professionalism and graciousness and for that I thank him.
In the first day of seminar we covered inner game, opening, false time constraints, bad social habbits (Dude, where's your glass?"), all those things to get us ready for the first field night. All of us were excited and filled with confidence. Typical group male activities were the norm... a lot of hand shaking, false bravado and energy pumping hugs. We were ready.
Friday (In-field): When I hit the entrance to the bar all those feelings of confidence and readiness came face to face with the memories of years of rejection in places just like this. I also felt the pressure of competiveness and male ego come into play. I was a deer in the headlights staring head straight into an on-coming semi. I was filled with dread. To make matters worse, Tman opened a girl at the bar before I could even take my coat off. Again, as you read this remember... I have walked in the shoes you stand in now. I know what you are feeling; I know where you have been.
Fader pushed me into a 4 set. My canned opening worked. The set hooked. We were off!
I worked the group a bit, some playful negs and even managed to mini isolate my target. The set fell apart and I rejoined Fader and my In-Field Brethren.
Fader immediately took me aside and pointed out the strengths and weaknesses of the set. There was no judgment, no humiliation, just constructive criticism. Almost immediately I was back in set. I had numerous mini-successes at this bar; opened and hooked 3-4 sets, got awesome kino (hands on this girls inner thighs while talking with her and some guy who was also gaming her) and learned a lot about social dynamics. This was all from the first location and all in the first 2 hours. The real fun took place at the third bar.
We entered this place that was a little too loud and a little too crowded. Again the guys I was with entered sets immediately. The pressure was back on and I approached a 2 set sitting in the center of the bar. My target was this cute petit black haired beauty with eyes that you would need a compass to find your way out of (cheesy line don't use it - but you get the point.)
I opened, hooked and before I could complete the opener, the brunette asked about a lapel pin I was wearing. I ditched the opener, took up the new thread, dropped a couple of playful negs and then jumped way out of my comfort zone. I did something I would never have thought about doing before meeting Fader, I locked the target in.
Those words don't have the strength needed to convey what happened. I got the target off her chair spun her around, took her seat, through my arm around her waist and pulled her in to sit on my knee. This might be common place to some of you, but to me this was an amazing moment. Her friend even offered to take a picture of us while she gave me a kiss on the cheek. The picture is great and such social proof. I not only number closed her but she invited me out the next night.
Doesn't this sound great - best night ever? The second set of the night at this club was even better than that. I opened this 3 set ( 1 guy and 2 girls) - my target was a 22 year old 8 (it was her birthday) who in the course of the exchange took my hand and placed it on her ass (wanted to show me she wasn't a devil - no tail), bumped and grinded with me on the dance floor, shared her beer with me, gave me her number and kissed me before we parted company.
Letís stop for a reality check... if I was reading this I would feel it read like an unbelievable advertisement. I would expect that on Saturday night (the second night infield) the guy would go on ti tell me that he pulled a 3-some of strippers.
The truth is Saturday night I really didn't feel very positive at the end of the night. I got into a 4 set, and the cute lawyer (an 8 if she was a tad taller) baited me and I took it, hook line and... sinker. I was able through damage control to see my mistake and work my way around it but honestly it stung hard, harder then when her friend bit me (had to be there).
In the end Saturday I number closed twice and bounced with a girl to a nearby pizza joint. However, no kissing, no sex, and a bruise to my ego which taught me a lesson I hope I never forget.
Sunday during the final seminar, Fader (remember Fader - this is a review about Fader) took my weaknesses and helped me with some advanced Hoop and Frame theory. These lessons I immediately found beneficial.
Fader did his job. He did it well and he went beyond what I felt he needed to do. The other guys have detailed some of the ways he out did himself. Fader is real, honest and true with himself and the people in his class. Qualities I really appreciate.
These courses could be full of strutting, one-ups-man ship and other bullshit, but with Fader there was none of that. I have no idea how other instructors teach their courses but Fader is good. He targeted the level of each person in the class and taught to their strengths and weaknesses. He taught me a lot.
Before I end this, another thing Fader did that I really appreciated. After the trip to Boston I was off to New York, upon hearing this Fader invited me and my brother to meet him for drinks and dinner. This was on equal terms, he didn't have to but he went out of his way to include us in his real life. I hope to see him when he comes to Atlanta on a boot camp next week.
One more thing, if you are concerned that the field-time is contrived or that any successes you have may be false (before the boot camp I had these concerns), let me tell you about the experiences I had after leaving the boot camp.
On the Sunday night after the seminar, while having dinner with my cousin, I number closed our waitress (6-7), met a couple of bartenders who took me out to club with them, where they then introduced me to a club manager (8-9) who I also managed to number close.
In Manhattan while out to dinner with Fader, I kiss closed a cute 7, made friends with some bouncers who invited me to come out and hang out with them on another night. The icing on the cake and a personal goal... I number closed a Flight Attendant (7) on the way home.
Just a few other thoughts to be fair, if I was Love Systems I would improve the following:
1) Optional hotel package near conference or near venues at additional expense (but this could be at a discount compared to market rates)
2) Increase the professionalism - Materials are lacking, I agree with Tman, bound copies of Magic Bullets and the Routine Guide (etc) would have been appreciated. 20 dollars spent at a Kinkos would really tie the course together.
3) Conferences should include free coffee, soft drinks, snacks and I would suggest lunch and or dinner. Take a hundred dollars from each paying customer and apply it to those things and you will see a huge difference. For real - we are paying $3000 a head.
4) On the lighter side how about; "I am with your girlfriend t-shirts?", MM pens, or instructions on how to turn average pizza boxes into large purple top hats.
If you have any doubts about anything I wrote here I invite you to email me or any of the other guys that were out with me and ask them to confirm.
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