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"Nice," as used in the community, is way ...
The "Nice Guy"---and Why He's Not Nice
"Nice," as used in the community, is way different than "nice" as used by women.
When the community uses the term, it is a perjorative. But since to most people it's enjoys a positive connotation, I thought a little more definition would be helpful
The "nice" guy likes a girl. He starts by befriending the girl and denying any romantic interest (he figures: I'll prove I like her as a person, not just a romantic interest), secretly taking note of what she likes, and then giving the "perfect" gift along with a confession of his love.
Poor girl! She thought she had a friend, but now she finds out he was just acting the whole time. Alternatively, she is uncomfortably surprised from this lightning bolt out of a seemingly clear blue sky, and is worried about how to save the friendship without hooking up with the guy, perhaps adding to the rejection the caveat, "You're such a nice guy."
Eventually, she lets him down as easy as she knows how (remember, this is a good, kind girl here), and this guy wonders what he did wrong. He certainly didn't do anything mean; his ears perked up when he heard her complain about guys, and steadfastly worked to avoid doing those things. He figures he's being nice.
The problem is that these guys have a sort of male version of going for committment too fast. A relationship is a 50-50 venture, but he's gone 90-10, and he's basically trying to pressure her into liking him, claiming (or at least implying) that she "owes" him for all he's done for her. He is trying to force her into liking him, she senses the trap, and she splits.
Then she meets another guy. She regards him as moderately attractive (maybe even LESS attractive than the nice guy), and she figures he'd be worth a date. So they go out, and it's clear that they're on the same page---he had an open Friday night, so, hey, he called her up. Turns out he has a rough edge or two, but nobody has to be perfect. He calls her up for a second date, and again, it's clear to both that this is just a date. She hasn't put that much effort into it, but neither has he. At least he isn't trying to lasso her with guilt.
So when our self-proclaimed "nice" guy meets this new guy and sees that he's not working as hard as the "nice" guy did, yet she's dating HIM, he thinks: "What? I worked so hard for her! I did everything I could! I even watched her favorite show so I could find something to talk about! What's wrong? Why is she dating that jerk?"
The so-called "jerk" isn't really a jerk; he simply isn't as fawning as the "nice" guy. But the labels have been assigned in his head, and so comes the saying, "Nice guys finish last."
"Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." ~ Matt. 10:16
"But it is time you recalled that, though I am a servant, I am not your servant." Vetch, A Wizard of Earthsea
I must say I agree 100% with this post. The worst part is society tells us that this is the way to go...
Great thread. I saw your post on the Dr Phil board and was glad you mentioned it. We were just talking about this today at work and the women pretty much confirmed exactly what you're saying.
The key to immortality is first to live a life worth remembering --Bruce Lee
For those of you who suffer from the Nice Guy Syndrome, check out the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Dr Robert Glover. It includes "breaking free" exercises (very useful) to get out of this trap.
-Rarely Get Laid
-Rarely reveal their own needs for fear of driving others away
-Don't set boundaries for what is unacceptable behavior towards them
-Try to make women happy at any cost
Too true. That's been my main sticking point my whole life. Always the nice guy, always LJBF. The worst is the "You're like a big brother" line. Once, in my AFC days, I was with 2 girls at a club and one of them said something about some chode being the hottest guy in the place. I was like, "Oh, and I'm not? What are you trying to say?" They said that I'm a better guy, but he was HOT. So why were they looking at him and not me? I'm a good looking guy, and I've always been well dressed and able to interact socially. It's just how I was brought up.
I finally realized that it's because I come across as that nice guy. Girls will feel comfortable with me, have fun with me, but not sleep with me. It's something I've been working on lately. I haven't been being a jerk, or an asshole, I've just been more assertive and vocal about what I want. I've put my feelings before anyone else's, because mine are the only ones that affect me.
It's actually hard to shake that "nice guy" mentality, and even harder to shake that image if you are firmly entrenched in your community. I don't live in a small town, but I don't live in a big city either, and I'm well-known enough in my town from bar-tending, rave promoting/mc-ing, and generally just growing up here, that virtually everybody knows me or at least knows my face. Sometimes it kind of sucks, but I'm slowly getting free of that trap.
I think the key is to be selfish. Not in a bad way; just put yourself first. A lot of us are conditioned to believe that selfishness is a bad thing, something that we should be ashamed of, but that is wrong. Being an arrogant, self-centered asshole is a bad thing; knowing what you want and striving to get it regardless of what others think is something else entirely. You only get one crack at this life, and if you are going to live it to the fullest, you have to be willing to put all the other bullshit aside and focus on you. Only you can make you happy, so YOU is who you need to live for.
Who is ninja? I am ninja.
I HATE Mr. Nice Guy.
I didnt think it was a problem till I experienced to too Much and realized the hard way that I was messing things up this way. I know this one guy that a total Jerk and always gets the girls. They brain washed us on how to treat them nice and bee good guys to find out the hard way that what they really want is a rude dude but in a good Cocky way.
They need a challenge and sooner we realize that have to stick up for what we really want then they will respect the PUA.
Ha...this topic screams truth.
I have a giant rant on "nice guys" on my myspace...soon to be a video rant on youtube hopefully...it'll be quite entertaining.
It's funny, in High School I was mean to like every female I came across and they liked me for it. I'm talking about "try to make them cry" mean. Then I met this one chick I really wanted and turned nice guy on her. She wound up almost filing a restraining order on my ass.
Then after HS for some dumbass reason I was nice guy again and nearly every female I knew told me that I wasn't even friend material, that I was creepy.
But now I've gone back to "try to make her cry" method...not really working in the field (I guess college chicks are more sensitive than in HS or something)...who knows.
I just hate "nice guys" for being so fake but they just want to get some. Either be nice and have no assumptions or be an asshole. Since I'm an asshole I'll say this: nice guys = fake shit that doesn't deserve to get laid. Fuck "nice guys" in the ass with a rusted dick.
Rule #76: No excuses. Play like a champion.
I got mad knowledge of self -Us3
Don't trust ANYONE. Not even yourself.
This reminds me of a comment i made last semester to one of my girls that i talk to on and off.
someone brought up motorboating, and i laughed and said she'd be impossible to motor boat.
She practically started crying, and i just kinda laughed.
But then the next time i saw her she told me she loved my argyle sweater
and now when i see her....big hugs.
.....its a strange world we live in.
Well everyone I know
Has got a reason
Put the past away
Too many movies and TV shows perpetuate the myth that the nice guy gets the girl. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrnK-qPARYI