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Why Nice Guys Finish LAST with Women

Discuss Why Nice Guys Finish LAST with Women at the General Discussion within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; Why Nice Guys Finish LAST with Women This has been a serious debate for a ...

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    Why Nice Guys Finish LAST with Women

    This has been a serious debate for a while now...Nice guys always finishing last with women.

    Well i was once classified as a "nice" guy. And her is my personally testimonial on how i change this from experiences.

    Okay, so this is a topic that has been going around for quite a while now..Probably before myself, and many of you were born. Guys commonly called “nice” guys trying to figure out where they go wrong with women, and why women always seem to walk right out of their lives.

    Lets face it, being called a nice guy sucks(especially by women) because we all know what pool this usually places us in. Typically nice guys are classified as:

    Push overs
    Ass kissers
    Indecisive
    Always putting what he wants on the back burner
    Saying anything to please a women
    Smiling all the time when in the presence of beautiful women..FOR NO REASON. Because they think its “nice” and makes them look better. Its actually worse but well get to that later.
    They usually settle for the first attractive female that luckily stumbles into there life.

    As you probably know by now these are ALL unattractive qualities that almost turn women off immediately, for psychological reasons that were developed through society before our time. This is just the way it is.

    Have you ever heard this before from a female you were interested in? “Awww your such a nice guy!” or maybe you over hear them telling their friends..”He’s such a nice guy!”

    Well its different ways that someone can refer to you as a nice guy… 1) being a overall genuine person that cares about others. 2) a push over, ass kisser.

    You usually know which one your referred to by the tone, or even they way people treat you.

    Its happened to me plenty of times in the past..All throughout high school and during my freshman year in college. So how did i manage to change this without becoming a douche bag or arrogant ass whole? Lets talk about it…



    1) Nice Guys dont make their women INVEST!

    So we always hear the cliche, “People appreciate things they work for more.” or “People appreciate things they have to invest time or money in”. Well this is very true in terms of women. If you are one of those guys that seems to get opportunities with dating women, but always seem to lose them because your being to “nice”? Well, it may not be because your being “to sweet” or being really nice as in actions but meaning you always GIVE instead of TAKE or require your girl to invest in you and your time. Doing favors for others and treating them well causes the giver to love the taker more. In return the taker does not always feel this way..In fact they may feel bogged down..burdened, or even ungrateful. This is usually when the “grass is greener” syndrome happens. This is what happens when you see the nice guy being his girlfriend EVERYTHING she wants, doing good deeds etc, and not requiring her to invest much. On the contrary the “bad boys” are always requiring and demanding things of their partner. They make their girl INVEST.

    So what can you change this?

    Dont be too nice and do everything she wants you to do. Instead make her invest in the relationship as well. It should never be 70/30 on your part. It is nice to keep the investment level at 40/60 which ive learned from experience.

    Remember, when females do FOR YOU is when they begin to fall in love with you. If she is not willing to invest this just means she may not be a good fit for you.

    2) Nice guys reward BAD Behavior.

    This is a big one. People in general learn from the consequences of their behavior. Its the simple system of reinforcement. People who recieve a good reward for good behavior tend to keep up that behavior over the long run, and vice versa.

    Nice guys tend to treat their girls well ALL the time, even when they probably dont deserve it. Of course, this makes you look like a push-over. By doing this you are showing your partner you dont DESERVE better, and you know you are lucky to have her so you will always treat her well no matter what. this is WRONG and a good way to lose a girl.

    How do you correct this?

    Simple, have BOUNDARIES. Reward good behavior when its there. Make her EARN HER REWARD. If she is grumpy and nagging one night, simply ignore her. This will let her no you WILL not tolerate that type of behavior and still invest. Get the point?

    3) Nice people are TOO Availible

    Scarcity…

    This is a big one because…Typically people value things based on scarcity. For example, most guys who get a date or hook up with a 10, feel like girls like her who are soo “scarce” to giving him a chance are rare, so in return he raises her value and more than likely will come off as needy and desperate. We see this with guys all the time.

    Nice guys are ALWAYS eager to please a girl they find attractive. They always agree to drop things in their life for the girl. They think be being convient, they can make it easier for the girl to fall for him..Which is wrong. Its actually the opposite. Instead you come off as needy, desperate. Eventually, you will get taken for granted, and overlooked by the girl..She will become BORED. It makes you seem LOW value and worthless.

    In return, the “bad boys” are hardly availible, always cancellign plans, calling off dates, basically making the girl do things according to his reality. But women find this attractive, temping and alluring.

    So in return, this makes them look scarce, which raises their value and the girl appreciates them being in her life more..Get the point?



    So as you see being a nice guy isnt a bad thing.. being TOO nice is! A lot of guys who once were nice guys end up turning into douch bags and missing out on a lot of opportunities because they have been dumped for being “nice”. So i was once this guy and with these small changes it drastically improved my results. So if you consider yourself categorized as this guy..change it with these simple steps.



    Sluggler



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    I've fallen into this category, but I'm doing my best at changing my bad habits. Thanks for your thread!

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    Congrats, but these ideas have been reiterated over and over again long before you had your epiphany or read a book.

    Another thing is you've learned how to get away from being a pushover, but you have so much to learn about being a good person. A lot of this advice is crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by driedfruit View Post
    Congrats, but these ideas have been reiterated over and over again long before you had your epiphany or read a book.

    Another thing is you've learned how to get away from being a pushover, but you have so much to learn about being a good person. A lot of this advice is crap.
    The OP goes a bit far with it, but sometimes you have to teach people extreme stuff to get them to retain fundamentals. His fundamentals are dead-on.
    http://www.theattractionforums.com/sex/141465-why-you-need-quit-porn-now.html

    Women have two types of toys: teddy bears and vibrators. Teddy bears are for when they are emotional and want to watch romcoms, and vibrators for when they want to get off. What toy are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by boston_019 View Post
    The OP goes a bit far with it, but sometimes you have to teach people extreme stuff to get them to retain fundamentals. His fundamentals are dead-on.
    Boston, that's a really insightful point. Good for you. Anything from teasing, touching, framing, etc. - any newish concept, guys tend to take to an extreme when they first understand them before dialing it back. It's a normal part of the learning process.
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    1 - Read the Magic Bullets Handbook - it's the bible of the Love Systems community, answers 90% of the questions here, and saves you years of time re-inventing the wheel.
    2 - Follow me on The Real Savoy Blog, or my twitter account. And friend me on Facebook for exclusive dating advice I don't post anywhere else.

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    I agree with all of these points...
    But, personally, I'd rather lose the girl by being nice (but then be able keep my head up), than try to win her by being a b*star*d...

    Morals and general code of conduct to a fellow human should always transcend 'rules' of the game.
    So, if you're ever unsure how to act, go with what lets you sleep easiest.
    Example of DHV: I show her my AngryBirds score
    Example of DLV: She shows me hers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick76 View Post
    I agree with all of these points...
    But, personally, I'd rather lose the girl by being nice (but then be able keep my head up), than try to win her by being a b*star*d...

    Morals and general code of conduct to a fellow human should always transcend 'rules' of the game.
    So, if you're ever unsure how to act, go with what lets you sleep easiest.
    I agree with that thought in principle, but... where is this "general code of conduct" coming from? Is this really also YOUR code of conduct? Is this really making YOU happy? I try to take a good hard look at myself, and I find a lot of the "general rules" or things "they say" to be utter BS. Go outside your comfort zone. Try several times to disobey the concepts you think are true. I believe I have to first get outside my boundaries in order to KNOW where they really are. With my male friends, I know where I stand. But with women? I have to forget a lot of the concepts I already have in my mind (of course, I am not advocating directly being obnoxious/insulting her or operating outside the law).

    And besides: if you have the concept of "being a nice guy" so much engrained in your mind, then you will not even be able to be a "b*st*ard" even if you try very very very hard. So the risk to your sleep is really low. ;-)

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    I posted this almost a year ago...

    Its amazing how much a difference a year makes. I now see that being its a big difference between a "Nice" guy and a legit GOOD guy.

    I am now a good guy. I take girls out after i am having sex with them. I am usually polite to all women i encounter. Girls i am seeing i pay for dates and outing..

    Being nice isnt the problem...Its coming from a place of needy, desperation, supplication, and qualifying that makes "Nice" guys finish last...Not actually being nice.

    My game is now at a much different level. If you are interested, check out my journal over at RSD nation: Sluggler Day Game - From Chode To BOSS - 720 Day challenge (InField Day Game,Videos, pictures, text game) | RSD Nation

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    I don't think that being good has anything to do with being nice, polite, paying for girls, etc. Being good is about your moral fiber, your integrity, ethics, values, etc. Being good is more about being a virtuous person who obeys laws, contributes to society, being honest in your professional and personal life, has a strong character and strong sense of right and wrong, and doesn't do bad things to women like cheat, rape, etc.

    Probably nearly all guys in the PUA community are good or aspire to be good. Its a tossup how many are "nice", but I would argue that beyond having some basic common decency and a positive open personality in public, it is basically useless at best and harmful at worst to be Nice.

    I believe nowadays that Game should be built on a strong bedrock foundation of inner and outer goodness, and then all the rest of your game is built around that. Basically if you dont build your house on a strong rock of goodness, the house could crumble, so thats why its important to have a strong foundation. And if you are built of goodness, then you will naturally attract a similarly good woman to live in your figurative and literal house.

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