Relationship Dynamics, The Hills, and Plane Tickets

[Growing Pains]

On these forums there are differences of opinions, but something that seems universal are these concepts of being controlling, trust issues, and not being jealous.
Because of TV conditioning, it very well may be that almost every girl you have contact with shares these views and men wind up thinking that's just the way it is.
But it's not. All around the world, outside of European cultures, there is no such thing. A woman serves her man, and is expected to revolve around him. They would look at her like she was crazy saying he's being controlling, or should trust her to go out alone and stop being jealous.
It wasn't always like that here, either. Can you see James Dean or Marlin Brandow sitting down listening to their woman tell him he is being too controlling etc? It's these Sex and the City, The Hills watching generation that buys into it all and men think they have to deal with it.
But whose interest is this in and why SHOULD we accept it? Is it in our interest or in the interest of girls who want to get away with a whole lot of BS and just do what they want?
Even cultures here in the US which are not TV don't accept these ideas. Ask any dude from Philly about these ideas and see what he says( don't mean white people though, no offense just saying, black people in philly is a specific culture).
Men do have options. Many American men are just getting married from Latin America etc to not deal with any more of the social conditioning.
If women saw that they were not supported in these feminist attitudes, and they couldnt keep a man with them, they would have to change.
But the Western man is enabling this, even encouraging it, by preaching it as well.
That's why all day long you see comments on here like" don't be controlling or show jealousy". That just doesn't work in anything but an artificial TV society.

[TheRogue]

Most men are controlling out of insecurity. One of my friends had a bf like that. He was jealous, told her what to do, when not to go out with her friends. We just saw it for what it was: her getting tooled. Because no one in my group of friends respected that guy. And eventually she cheated on him, he went crazy, blah blah, drama drama, and now she's with a new guy (who is probably also jealous and controlling).

Yeah, he controlled her and told her what to do. Did it help him at all? No.

Now let's look at my other friend, who just got married to a high-value guy. He doesn't tell her to not go out or talk to other guys. She doesn't do things that violate his boundaries anyways. Because she respects him as a man and knows that she'll lose a good thing if she fucks up. Not because he controls her and tells her so...but because of the man he is.

Women aren't stupid. They know the boundaries, but test them to test the man's character. If he gets openly jealous and controlling, it's a sign of weakness. If he stays unreactive and simply pulls back, it's a sign of strength and the woman will back away from the boundary.

A woman chooses to serve her man. In some countries she has no choice, but that's a sad fact of life. It's not the way it should be. But if you want to keep a woman, be the man she wants to serve.

Rogue

[TrueStory]

Originally Posted by TheRogue

Most men are controlling out of insecurity.

That's true. However, women and feminist movement through wester culture conditioned men that they are EASILY REPLACEABLE.

Men are constantly bombarded with "sexual harassment" crap at work, in public, or just about anywhere.

Men are called names and portrayed as selfish pigs (Sex in the City "Mr. Big" for example)

Women are constantly throwing it in men's face: "We don't need you, we can do everything ourselves. We can make our own money and support our own families"

now with all this in front of them, it's hard to expect men to be more confident and secure. They feel like they lost all control over the situation.

One of my friends had a bf like that. He was jealous, told her what to do, when not to go out with her friends. We just saw it for what it was: her getting tooled. Because no one in my group of friends respected that guy. And eventually she cheated on him, he went crazy, blah blah, drama drama, and now she's with a new guy (who is probably also jealous and controlling).

Funny you mentioned she cheated on him. Which I completely understand his wrong doing as being insecure, he indeed had great reasons to worry about her cheating on him, right?

Yeah, he controlled her and told her what to do. Did it help him at all? No.

I mentioned this in another post of mine: difference between controlling insecure freak and emotionally stable confident man that know how to lead her woman or women.

Now let's look at my other friend, who just got married to a high-value guy. He doesn't tell her to not go out or talk to other guys. She doesn't do things that violate his boundaries anyways. Because she respects him as a man and knows that she'll lose a good thing if she fucks up. Not because he controls her and tells her so...but because of the man he is.

Precisely

Women aren't stupid. They know the boundaries, but test them to test the man's character. If he gets openly jealous and controlling, it's a sign of weakness. If he stays unreactive and simply pulls back, it's a sign of strength and the woman will back away from the boundary.

How would the world be so much brighter if men understood this.

A woman chooses to serve her man. In some countries she has no choice, but that's a sad fact of life. It's not the way it should be. But if you want to keep a woman, be the man she wants to serve.
Rogue

Those "sad" countries were based on men's insecurities. It gave power to insecure and controlling men to keep their women at bay. Needless to say, it's not like that in most European countries.

How old were you when you moved to US?

Do you recall how Russian women were? And if most of my peers from Ukraine or Russia would read some of those posts, they would dumbfounded look at the screen and say "What the fuck is this sissy ass guy talking about? What does it mean his women ignores him?! What's hanging between his fucking legs, a pair of nuts or cotton balls?"

lol

[Growing Pains]

Originally Posted by TheRogue

Most men are controlling out of insecurity.



Rogue

What are you basing this statistic on? Then you go on to repeat the rest of the dogma in question. I've heard it before, I'm simply asking why we should accept these claims.

As far as the rest of the planet's men are insecure and that's why they have patriarchal societies, come on now.
Do you really think that the European/American man is the example of stregnth and manliness? Does anyone?

Why is Europe the example for a functional society. Look at the decline in family structure and everything else.

[TrueStory]

Originally Posted by Growing Pains

Why is Europe the example for a functional society. Look at the decline in family structure and everything else.

Why haven't you question the traditional "family structure" and it's validity to begin with?

Who, initially, decided that monogamous relationships are for humans?

What if we are not biologically wired to do "pair bonding"?

We all sit here and discuss which country is more "manly" but we never bothered to question what is the END goal of this?

Isn't end goal is reproduction? Then who really cares whether there is a declining family structure, as long as population is growing...right?

[Growing Pains]

Didnt say anything about monogamy. I'm all for polygamy.

[DESERT EAGLE]

I'd like to know where the rogue gets her stats, facts and figures. Perhaps many men are insecure but, with women basically being glorified whores and generally incompetent as regards to skills required to even be in a healthy relationship past sex and showing her ass, why would men be secure? Why would I trust a woman who openly flirts and seeks attention from other men? The rogue said her friend did eventually cheat on the guy so...what was there for him to be secure about as regards to her? He clearly had a sneaking suspicion you friend was a whore and he was right. Case Closed.

So, you contradict yourself, and the fact that you have to "test the limits" of a man is even more idiotic. Why would you commit yourself to someone just to fight against them? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time, sadly, that's an attitude many of America's women share. But, what American women do not realize is that they are a commodity whose market price is steadily dropping. Women in the west parade themselves around sexually, absolutely living for the attention of men, (a fact many deny) but is too clear. But when you have nothing to offer but sex then that's all men want you for why would expect him to treat you well or trust you? The fact that you don't have the capacity to enter a relationship with love and good intent, no, instead you enter with mal-intent, to test the limits and see what you can away with. Women like you disgust me, a man who refuses to apologize for being a man, and women like you will eventually pay for their evil ways with loneliness and probably lesbianism.

But the progression you see, is that many women party until they're in the late 20's early 30's and then they expect someone to marry some used up garbage. Who do you think would marry you them? Only someone who didn't know better or was a bitch and if he was a real man, he wouldn't stay with her for long. Rogue, even look at your picture. It's of a woman who is ready to slaughter something. Who is she preparing to slaughter? A man?

That's another topic, even women on TV shows like sex and the city are portrayed like they would be coveted by men all over the place and it's a fantasy. No man in his prime wants any dried up old ass woman like on the show.

Also, the american women suffers from greater bouts of post-partum dedpression, psychosis, hypochondria, suicide, and other emotional disorders in disproportionately greater numbers then the rest of the women of the non-western world. So...who do you think has got it and who doesn't. Women in the west are sick and you don't know understand you're hurting yourselves in the end. As a friend of mine said, you look so stupid poking holes in the very ship your riding on. Who are western women fighting against? In the end, themselves. Because even a man in his 60's can get a young who really loves him and be happy. A 60 year old woman is coveted only by the man who married her when she was young.

[TheRogue]

Originally Posted by DESERT EAGLE

I'd like to know where the rogue gets her stats, facts and figures. Perhaps many men are insecure but, with women basically being glorified whores and generally incompetent as regards to skills required to even be in a healthy relationship past sex and showing her ass, why would men be secure? Why would I trust a woman who openly flirts and seeks attention from other men? The rogue said her friend did eventually cheat on the guy so...what was there for him to be secure about as regards to her? He clearly had a sneaking suspicion you friend was a whore and he was right. Case Closed.

I'm not gonna go into my friend's morals, since I don't condone cheating. I'm just saying that being controlling doesn't do shit if a woman doesn't respect you as a man.

So, you contradict yourself, and the fact that you have to "test the limits" of a man is even more idiotic. Why would you commit yourself to someone just to fight against them?

This isn't about fighting against the man. I'm talking about testing the man early in the relationship. No woman wants to be stuck with a weak and insecure man who can't lead her properly. She HAS to test him to respect him. You can't just pick up the first woman on the street and expect her to make a good wife, can you? You have to make sure she passes YOUR tests (aka isn't a "whore" as you call American women). Well, it works the other way around too. Not all men are fit to lead. A woman has to choose one who is, and to do so, she tests him (it's what they call "shit test" around here).

Women in the west parade themselves around sexually, absolutely living for the attention of men, (a fact many deny) but is too clear. But when you have nothing to offer but sex then that's all men want you for why would expect him to treat you well or trust you? The fact that you don't have the capacity to enter a relationship with love and good intent, no, instead you enter with mal-intent, to test the limits and see what you can away with. Women like you disgust me, a man who refuses to apologize for being a man, and women like you will eventually pay for their evil ways with loneliness and probably lesbianism.

Thanks for lumping me into your nice stereotype. You don't even fucking know me. I was in love with a man once, and entered the relationship with quite a good intent. If he had wanted me to marry him, I would have, and I would have loved him forever, because 3 years later, he's still the one I love. But you know what, he didn't want that. He wanted to become a PUA, and I had no choice but let him go. So what now? Should I resign to loneliness and lesbianism? Should I marry the first AFC who comes around? You think I want to go around flaunting my body and using men in whichever way I can? Hell no. I would rather be taking care of the one man I do love. But that's not possible, so I gotta live best I can and hopefully find one whom I can love just as much, if that's possible.

But the progression you see, is that many women party until they're in the late 20's early 30's and then they expect someone to marry some used up garbage. Who do you think would marry you them? Only someone who didn't know better or was a bitch and if he was a real man, he wouldn't stay with her for long.

Yeah, and how many guys do you see on here wanting to marry a young virgin?

Rogue, even look at your picture. It's of a woman who is ready to slaughter something. Who is she preparing to slaughter? A man?

Actually, if you paid more attention, you'd notice her sword is in her sheath. She's not trying to slaughter anyone, she's just looking at her reflection trying to figure out what to do with her life.

That's another topic, even women on TV shows like sex and the city are portrayed like they would be coveted by men all over the place and it's a fantasy. No man in his prime wants any dried up old ass woman like on the show.

Who said TV shows reflect reality? They're all fantasy, just like the movies where AFC gets the girl.

Also, the american women suffers from greater bouts of post-partum dedpression, psychosis, hypochondria, suicide, and other emotional disorders in disproportionately greater numbers then the rest of the women of the non-western world. So...who do you think has got it and who doesn't. Women in the west are sick and you don't know understand you're hurting yourselves in the end. As a friend of mine said, you look so stupid poking holes in the very ship your riding on. Who are western women fighting against? In the end, themselves. Because even a man in his 60's can get a young who really loves him and be happy. A 60 year old woman is coveted only by the man who married her when she was young.

Not gonna comment on this. I wasn't raised in the West. I'm a clash of two cultures, and I can see flaws on each side. Still, things are the way they are. You have no choice but to adapt or try and find the needle in the haystack that thinks the way you do.

Rogue

[Growing Pains]

Originally Posted by Still, things are the way they are. You have no choice but to adapt or try and find the needle in the haystack that thinks the way you do.

[I

Rogue[/i]

OR just get that plane ticket.....

[Sarge in Charge]

Women aren't stupid. They know the boundaries, but test them to test the man's character.

Reminds of the scene in Jurassic Park, outside the velociraptor cage... "Oh shit! They've developed problem-solving intelligence, they're testing the electrical fencing to find weaknesses..."

Yip, they test us. As Rogue says and as well they should, to see if we're fit to lead. In any context, leadership is ALWAYS challenged.

Chicks test. Get over it.

But what everyone DOES agree on is that the role of leader should be filled by the man.

If the dude tries to "lead" out of insecurity and jealousy then yes, he is indeed an insecure and jealous control freak.

Not to put too fine a point on it but "leading" and "controlling" are two different things.

As has been said, women WILL test the boundaries. Thats what they do. What WE need to do is know oursleves, know what it is WE value in life, and know what the fuck OUR boundaries are because if you don't have any, how can you possibly lead yourself, let alone others?

Values. Either they choose you or you choose them. When you react out of jealousy or insecurity it is a case of the former. When you respond because you know yourself well enough to know what you find acceptable in your life, you have consciously chosen your own boundaries.