A true test of Leadership?

[Sarge in Charge]

I posted a thread recently about busting my GF smoking behind my back.

At that point in time, she said that SHE did not want to become a "full-time" smoker again and that she would stop.

She has since informed me that she has decided to CARRY ON smoking "for now" and will stop "some time soon".

So basically she is a smoker again. As I've said previously, she has an illness which smoking makes worse (and we BOTH have to live with the symptoms of her illness). So its NOT the run of the mill situation where we know that smoking may, or MAY NOT, cause damage. In her case, we KNOW that it will.

This is NOT a deal breaker to me. That is not to say however that it is not a serious infringement in my eyes. Ultimately however, overcoming her addiction to cigarettes IS something I am prepared to work through with her. Up to a point, admittedley, but that point is still far away...

I know that I cannot change or control her. But I do love her and I do give a fuck about what happens to her helath. So I know I cannot force her to stop but at that some time simply remaining apathetic is not an option either.

Perhaps it is essentially about leadership.

And thats my question - how do I lead her through this?

[BigDuke6]

The better question is How do You See Yourself Through This? You need to take care of Sarge in Charge. IMHO, your options are:

1) Live with her addiction/habit and accept it. You can ask her to smoke outside so your eyes aren't affected.

2) Next

I know you're looking for option 3) Make her stop smoking or have her stop on her own.

An "It's either me or the cigarettes" ultimatum won't work. She might claim to stop, but if she's into it, she'll just do it behind your back. You're obviously into this girl, I'd say option 1 is the choice here.

[FemmeFatale]

I think you need to have another chat to her about it.. the fact of the matter is, she doesnt want to quit.. you need to make her want to quit and THEN she may have a change.. I have heard of people being hypnotised.. perhaps that would work for her?

[Tehleet]

If she likes you enough don't you believe she would quit if you threatened to walk away? The truth of the matter is it affects YOU also.

If she claims to quit and continues smoking you have a bigger problem. If she lies to you about smoking, wouldn't she be more prone to lie about something else? Do you want to deal with trust issues in a relationship?

You said it's not a deal breaker, but you are obviously worried about her health. Her ailment could potentially be passed on to you (maybe).

I'd talk to her again and tell her how you feel. At least see if she actually cares about the issue affecting you.

P.s. I took the more extreme route. I know you don't want to next her. I feel this would be a last resort if your problem comes this far. You want her to change and she won't (i'm going through something similar). I understand how it feels, man. There comes a point where you have to see the value of your relationship in HER eyes. Does she value YOU more than cigarettes? Does she want both? Could she settle for one and NOT the other? Answer these questions and you'll come closer to deciding what YOU want.

[Sarge in Charge]

Guys, (and gal), thank you. I appreciate your input.

Her and I have discussed this. Several times. Further flogging of the “logic horse” is unlikely to yield results. If any of you are or have been a smoker, you’ll know what I mean.

“Next-ing” her is not an option as this is not a “next-able” offence in my eyes. It is serious, but not THAT serious. Yet.

And I find the other extreme of apathy equally unacceptable. I mean were your GF, or better yet, your child, to say to you “just want to let you know that I’ve decided to take up stabbing myself in the eyeballs with a pencil at regular fifteen minute intervals” you would be unlikely to reply “that’s cool, let me know when you’ve blinded yourself so I can drive you to the hospital”.

And if you really loved her, or if it was indeed your child, you would be just as unlikely to say “Fine! Go ahead then, I’m outta here! I’m sure there are plenty more kids at the orphanage up the road…”

Smoking in her case is particularly bad but it is still an addiction. Just like everyone else who is addicted to cigarettes. I want to support her and help her overcome this addiction without condoning any of her actions.

I am not trying to be dismissive of the advice received or claim that I have better answers myself.

But theres a lot of talk on these forums about being “the man”. About “stepping up”. About being a leader.

And it just feels to me that that is what this is essentially about.

Helping someone that you love do better for themselves.

[DeadEyeDick]

Self-destructive behavior by someone you're involved with is like the ol' Gordian knot -- it can seem impossible to untie.

Cigarette addiction, for anyone else reading this, is one of the tougher addictions to quit (not to say that any are easy). I used to work in a hospital where a patient who had a tracheotomy after cancer would still smoke through the trake hole. Think about that.

Anyway, another angle on this might be to ask her how much of your input/help/advice/prodding she wants or is willing to accept.

She may say, "Even when I tell you to stop talking about it, you should push through that, because I need the extra prodding."

Or, she may say she's heard enough and she'll handle it on her own.

A side issue here is her character. It sounds like you're in it, but consider the implications more generally of someone whose self-destructive behavior is in a "keep away" zone where she doesn't want you (if, in fact, she doesn't).

Project that out into the future where, God forbid, she may have some more serious illness, but her own lack of will around health leaves you destroyed as you watch her destroy herself and reject your help.

Just something to think about.

[Vapor]

I agree with most of the above. A few thoughts.

No point in arguing this logically. Destructive, addictive behavior has nothing to do with logical thought.

That leaves carrots and sticks. This is not a deal-breaker for you, so you don't really have much leverage. You might put some thought into why it isn't one though. You obviously care about this girl, but it sounds like she's killing herself and you are sticking with her. But she's not your fiance/wife, so you aren't that serious about her.

This puts you in a tricky spot. If a girl you've been dating a few weeks gained 30 pounds, you'd understandably dump her. You wouldn't divorce your wife over it. A girlfriend who knows her BF might dump her for unacceptable behavior is more likely to change it than a wife who knows it's not going to lead to divorce; there is a plausible threat of a stick in the case of the GF.

Because this isn't a deal-breaker for you, and she knows it, she can keep doing what she prefers, which is to keep seeing you and keep smoking.

But you are her boyfriend, not her husband. There are a lot of girls out there who are just as good as this one, but who aren't smokers with complicating medical problems. Breaking up with her isn't an indication that you don't care, just that you can't be in a relationship with somebody you care about who's doing that to themselves. It's too painful. So you'll be there as a friend, but the relationship is over.

Anyway, that's the course of action that I think would be most likely to yield a fruitful result. I would strongly consider breaking up over this if she won't change "soon" to "now" for two reasons:

1. She says she'll quit "some time soon." Let's say that's 3 months; in 3 months she will quit. If she's willing to trade 3 months of smoking for a relationship with you, you do not want this person in your life.

2. This will more likely reveal that "soon" means "indefinitely, and stop bother me about it." That means you should be prepared for the fact that this is somebody who's going to be a smoker indefinitely, and you can decide if that's a deal breaker or not. Then you can decide, "Would I marry this girl someday given the status quo?" And if the answer is no, why not move on to somebody you're more prepared to get that serious about?

JMO

[sdnightfly]

All you can do is limit her on smoking around you.

What is the illness that she has?

My mom smoked for 30 years and when she went to see a hypnotist, she never smoked again.

In my opinion, some people are physically addicted to it and a "good" flu might cause them to stop. But I think more people are mentally dependent on it... cuts down on stress, having something in their hand, social circle, etc.

People end habits in different ways..some go "that's it" and quit then and there. Some take longer than they should. And some never quit... they'll get COPD, the O2 tank, and still smoke until their lungs give in. And they all have to relearn how to breathe.

Encourage activities where she isn't able to smoke, where it discourages her from smoking. If you can get her down to 5 cigarettes a day from a pack a day, it's better than nothing. If you can get her down to 1 or 2 a day, it's better than nothing.

There are now lung transplants, but they have to quit smoking in order to get it. Health plans demand that they quit smoking or go to another provider. Most jobs push it as far away from the building as possible. In a lot of countries, smoking is still part of daily life.

If you want facts, I'm sure hospitals and clinics in South Africa have smoking cessation programs, but I don't know how the social aspects of smoking are there.

Sometimes you can help guide them in the direction, and sometimes it's "my way or the highway" and run the risk of losing her. Scare tactics don't always work, but her quality of life being affected at some point could make her change her mind.

To be honest, if someone I cared about told me their addiction was that strong that they're going to keep doing it, I have an option to stay or go. I don't have to live with her illness. She does. Her family does.

To tell someone that their habit is affecting how you feel about her in the relationship that you're going to leave, she'll either quit or tell you to go. But sometimes when you leave is when she starts thinking. But you have to get past the bratty crybaby phase begging you to come back and wait it out. When she's calmer and she's more sure of herself and tells you "I want to work it out", she's either manipulating or sincere. And the only way to know is to go back and see where it goes.

It's pretty simple on your end, but you have to be worth her dealing with the pain of withdrawal for.

Being the leader sometimes means walking out. Otherwise you're enabling and justifying something you feel is unacceptable in the relationship. You see the smoking as a sort of betrayal ("behind my back"). It is a bigger deal than you want to admit.

Bottom line - it doesn't matter if you care about her health if she doesn't. If the smoking is triggering something that's causing her to be worse which causes you problems, then you need to think about that.

[Brenden9904]

I would simply put it off and not say much of anything to her about it. Just act aggravated whenever she lights a cigarette in front of you. Don't say anything, just maybe stop what you're doing and walk away. Be aggravated but not cruel in any way whatsoever - this should let her know that you're disappointed in her.

If she goes in for a kiss and she smells like a cigarette make a slightly disgusted face and pull back a little bit, and maybe hesitantly kiss her.

This all depends on the situation, and the girl of course. But if you're able to adjust your composure to different reactions and what-not then you should be set.

Just remember to stay firm but not cruel, let her know how you feel only if she asks, just be confident in your words when you explain it to her. If you're not completely confident in anything you have to say, then chances are she's not going to listen.


Most girls don't like it when a guy tells her what to do and what not to do, they rebel.
But if you indirectly let her know you don't approve, then she should get the message without the feeling of being forced to do anything, and not have anything to rebel against.

Also, note that if she continues to smoke despite these motions, then start regarding her with a little more indifference. She should get the idea that this will have a impact on the relationship.

Just remember if you follow all of these steps, don't ever give in or change your opinion. If you appear confident that you are right and she is wrong, she will have self doubt and you are winning.

I guess the goal is to make her feel guilty for smoking, just be careful with this one. She has to still know that you love her, just not her habit.

I do wish you the best of luck with this one. Don't be obliged to follow any of these steps, this is just how I would try to resolve the situation. But the difference between me and you is I wouldn't care if the plan backfired and the relationship ended, I have enough of my own problems to deal with. So it's worth the risk to me, and in the end if I failed, I would mark my win and her loss.

[Sarge in Charge]

Once again, thanks guys. The input is much appreciated.

Discussions up to this point have been heated and yielded an uneasy truce. For the most part, she has stuck to her refrain of “I’m an adult, it’s MY decision”.

Perhaps I made her feel like a child and came across as controlling, as though I were negating her role to play in this.

I’m not sure to what effect but I explained that I was coming from a place of love and concern. That I simply could not stand idly by while she did something so damaging to her. She claims to have understood.

And so the truce – she continues to smoke “for now”.

As mentioned previously, the complicating factor is that she has a disease which smoking makes worse. There is no ‘IF’ in her case. So to say that it is not a deal-breaker for me is to say that it’s a question of time. Am I prepared to stay committed to her while she indefinitely jeopardizes her health? No. But I am prepared to give her a chance. She’s on strike one at the moment.

So I guess I was looking for a middle path. Somewhere between doing nothing and walking out. And because I AM in it, because I DO care, I guess I did’t want to feel powerless.

I keep on thinking that if I can just get her to follow my lead, she’ll stop. But perhaps I have to accept the fact that if she wants to smoke, she will. That it IS her decision. And that MY decision is what I do with that fact.