Adam Lyons - Reviews (Cumulative) - The Attraction Forums

chris3 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 10:38 PM

Adam Lyons Boot camp Cost: £250

I GOT LAID I GOT LAID I GOT LAID I GOT LAID

I am still proper buzzing This experience. This has to be have been the best weekend I have had for at least 18 months and ended up with my first ever SNL.

I guess the best way to go through this review is chronologically. I wrote a whole article the night before the boot camp about how nervous I was and what my worries were before the boot camp. When I met some of the other students I relaxed pretty quickly I was really surprised how cool they were. That was the first thing that hit me. I spoke to a few of them later on in the boot camp and a lot of us had been worried we would be in a room with a bunch of 40 year old virgins or geeks with snot dripping out there noses. I could not have been more wrong. I guess I was average age at 25, everybody there had loads of cool stuff to talk about other than pickup and would have been a cool meet in any situation.

That was something I loved about this weekend I learned, PUA’s are cool. Before I was worried about what group I had joined and what that said about me I am not any more. I would hang with any of these guys again any time.

We started of with the seminar and theory. And I was really impressed . Adam gave of a great vibe. His whole method and theory is totally new. I have read a lot and this was all very original and new and stuff I had not herd before. I guess my first real negative was that this was a little long and wound up being a little heavy. But this information was perfect for me because it really helped me with my sticking points Attraction and escalation. Yeah it definitely helped with escalation ( Did I mention I got laid that night)

We saw Adam game his female helpers through out the seminar which really was amazing. He was gaming them while teaching us about game and they already new about game it was wicked. They were always hitting him kicking him giggling blushing and saying I hate you ( breaking rapport for people cool enough to now know what that is).

From the seminar we split into teams of two and chose our approach coach. My wing and I picked Bradley. He was one of my first choices because I had spoken to him earlier. He hadn’t been in the game long but had a real natural vibe which was great because I am a real keyboard jockey and I wanted a natural opinion on things. He new his game well and was really passionate about it and NLP.

We did some approach drills which were very difficult we approached two of the female helpers. I am honestly not sure if is was helpful because if felt so unnatural and kind of deflating to be honest.

We had a guest speaker Sasha talk about day game. Can’t really say I liked that to much because it wasn’t really my thing. But then again day game isn’t really my thing so I am not really a good judge

After the talk by sash we went of to practice day game on the way to on Anon . Really day game isn’t my thing but chatting to Bradley on the way was cool.

We arrived at the club at 8. I suppose If I want to be critical of something, I thought the club was a bit shit. There weren’t very many fit birds there at all. I think we could have got there a bit later and that would be fine.
I am quite good at approaching and normally doing cold sets. Before this boot camp I thought I was good at opening now it is the weakest part of my game. I have travelled a lot and I have to say London is probably the hardest place to open ( except probably east Anglia (inbreeding, only speak to people they know)) That I have been in the world. ( Oh yeah I forgot to say I got laid)

I think I did about 8 or nine sets . I suffer from premature ejectsulation. It happens to most men at some time in there life’s. I did find I left a lot of sets early and maybe ejected when I shouldn’t have and stayed in and pushed my comfort zone.

Right hear is the only legitimate complaint about Adam. My approach coach asked him for some advice because I couldn’t hook my sets then said I was approaching loads then Adam went( Possibly not knowing I was there ) “ That’s O.k. that is all I am worried about” (approaching loads) Not hooking sets is a real problem for me that is why after a long time I stopped doing clod approaches. I was standing there and I jumped in and explained my problem then Adam helped telling me to qualify earlier using big hoops earlier. This helped a little but I still have problems hooking sets. I think this is because of my premature ejectsulation problem. Every other negative I brought up or will bring up is a bullshit negative that doesn’t really count because the boot camp was so cheap.( Oh yeah I forgot to say I got laid)

One thing I found was that I was still using a lot of MM stuff. I find a lot of it crosses over really well. Somebody introduced me to London soul the instructor from TMM and chatted to him for a few mints. There was a MM boot camp there that night as well. Really it was cool to meet soul would love to work with him or MM one day if I get the cash. Soul I was the big guy in The white shirt and jeans who suffers from premature Ejecting, how did the BC go?.

The whole night I couldn’t hook a set but my approach coach did an accomplishment intro for me. This was when the instruction really was good. The attract game Adam taught was powerful along with the escalation game really was money ( a lot more than £250) . These were week areas before now they are strengths( Oh yeah I forgot to say I got laid)

I am not going to write a lay report for the simple reason I don’t want to be the guy who sleeps with a bird and writes about it on the internet so I will be vague. I got consistent advice to keep escalating and how to do it and when to close my wing on this mission was tight.

The second day was more theory which was pretty standard stuff not as strong as the first day. We had a fashion consult which was cool. Everybody that stayed in London went out Sunday but I had to get the train home. Shame I missed it.

Now I am going to list ALL the negatives I can think up and do a sum up. I want to put all the negatives in because I really don’t believe reviews with no negative comments. To be fair apart from the one negative I mentioned earlier this is all bullshit because the boot camp was so cheap but I am going to put it hear anyway.

The boot camp was late starting and six of us didn’t get the message.
We didn’t get to see the instructors or Adam do any cold approaches.
I think maybe we could have had a little more feedback.
That’s it.

( Oh yeah I forgot to say I got laid)

I was going to say that there were to many people on the boot camp but I later decided that was a strength because of the social proof. There were 14 student 7 approach coaches and Adam. It was great to meet that many cool people who were into pickup like me. PUA’s are cool they can speak four languages go out on the piss and pull birds, They are smart they go Dress sharp stay in shape, Do MMA, boxing, Study cool thing at Uni have careers are ambitious, they are warm helpful friendly good at socialising go travelling have cool jobs and not least hot girlfriends. Really I want to be in that group.

I asked one of the female helpers what she and her friends really thought of Game. She said it was cool. Adam explained how this was, cosmopolitan for men.

To some up finally This was like a wicked interesting seminar followed by a night out (chasseing Fanny) with some of the coolest people I have met in ages. To top if of you have got the third best person at pulling in the world sat next to you giving you advice on what to do next while a girl has got her hand on you nob . For the price less than half of what I spend on diet coke in a year.

Really I cant believe Adam is deserting the UK to go live in America. What would have been a really cool follow up to this would have been to split a one on one with a few of the cool people I met. Maybe I would do one with Alex but I am not sure how good he is because I didn’t see him in field but his GF is really nice.

Life changing, We will see but things are definitely looking brighter. Check it out you can actually go to school to learn how to get laid and it works. WOW. Another cool thing is that it really made me think about what I really wanted out of life and what would make me happy. SNL isn’t it butt I feel closer. What A life experience.

( Oh yeah I forgot to say I got laid)

ant80 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-17-2008, 05:42 PM

I attended Adam Lyons’ Chicago Bootcamp from August 8 through August 10 of 2008. I originally heard of PUA Training from Bristol Lair. There was a glowing review of PUA Training BC’s (that has since been taken down) there and this, along with the extraordinarily low price, convinced me to join. I had never been to a BC before, but I have read reviews. I have a lot of AA and I was hoping that this would give me a big boost towards that goal. I was expected a lot of coaching in the field. I have read a lot, but have been very hesitant to go out into the field. The 2 day game and 2 night game sessions were one of the main reasons why I joined the BC in the first place. However, what ensured was what I can only describe as a fiasco of unimaginable proportions.

The reporting time was at 6:45 PM on Friday. I was expecting a hotel room, and was very nervous. What I found was that it was the residence of the only HB helper, Amanda. Adam and his girlfriend Amanda were already there, along with Kyle, who was introduced to me as one of the students from Adam’s first BC in the USA who had shown the maximum improvement in the BC. This was about 5 weeks ago. They went on to say that he was very bad at talking to women, and that that he had really improved since then. That thoroughly impressed me. The fact that a student from 5 weeks ago was good enough become an instructor so quickly flabbergasted me.

The BC started, and we went through attraction, comfort, body language & kino, social proof, opening & comfort building and # closing. Adam has a good vibe going, and led the seminar really well. We created an opinion opener that we were going to use in the field today. I picked my Hippie opener. He said that he wasn’t going to do live demonstrations because he was in a committed relationship, which didn’t bother me as much initially because I had seen several clips on youtube. He also mentioned that there are people that create the illusion of a 20 second # close by pretending to check if their phone is working with the girl. However, I realized later that having live demonstrations can actually be a confidence builder. Another tidbit that was mentioned was that, since it was a logistical nightmare to fly a group of 10 instructors to every BC, he had arranged for 2 members of the local lair (Chicago Lair) to assist him and be approach coaches. This concerned me. But I reassured myself saying that this was Adam Lyons after all. Besides ||||||||||| website promises “at least 3 MPUA trainers” every BC. I was extremely nervous at this time though, because I didn’t have the mental boost that I had hoped for at this time. I have the tendency to be intimidated by people with a higher skill level than I, and that concerned me that I hadn’t received the confidence to go out at this stage. If anything, my anxiety had only escalated. Certainly not what I was expecting.

The first bar I hit was pretty dead. It was a sports bar, and wasn’t crowded (the cubs game had just finished and everybody had left, apparently). I opened a bunch of sets there, and none of them hooked. I committed social suicide by just standing there. I was just paralyzed with fear then. Kyle, my approach coach, wasn’t very helpful in alleviating my anxiety, or for anything else, for that matter. The other two approach coaches, Matt and Will, weren’t all that helpful either, though Matt tried his level best to help. However, the approach coaches definitely weren’t MPUAs. I was started ejecting prematurely. On top of that, Kyle asked me to approach a set with my opinion opener, and he walked up to them, and said, “My friend has a question for you guys.” Now what is the purpose of that? Isn’t the sole purpose of opening, to actually do it by yourself? This only made this more awkward for me? On top of that, it seemed like Kyle was more interested in gaming himself than in helping me and my game.

We bounced to another place, and my anxiety started to peak. I wasn’t getting into state, and it was ridiculously difficult for me to even go into the bar. When I went in there, I started to do more approaches, but I was again killing myself with social suicide. I started to stutter with my words even. Of all my blown out approaches, I remember one in particular. Kyle pushed me to a complement approach, and when I opened, he came in with “what did he say?” to the target. He did that again a couple of times. That deflated what was left of my confidence. I don’t know what the goal of that was, maybe to see if I was speaking loud enough? If so, it would’ve helped my confidence if he had explained that to me. I thought he was trying to AMOG me. The night ended, and I took the long ride back to the hotel room. I hadn’t had such a bad night since I learned about the community. PUA training assures us of a full refund upto 5 hours into the BC. I was seriously contemplating leaving that night. But it still would’ve cost me my trip and my hotel expenses. I again kept reminding myself that this was Adam Lyons. So I decided to stay.

I was late for the seminar because of construction on the railway tracks. 49 minutes late, to be exact. More on that below. I missed the feedback and a good portion of the 3 characters. We did some exercises on communication and keeping talking. It wasn’t anything new to me though. Nothing you can’t find elsewhere, and certainly nothing unique. There was a lot of trash talking and bragging of other programs, especially TMM. At one point, Adam was telling us about how TMM sends certain students that they can’t handle to Adam. I don’t know about that, but I am not going to question it. He also said that TMM was founded by Mystery, who is a master illusionist, and that his method works for him, in particular because he is a magician and because he is 6’6”. Adam also alluded to his belief that TMM instructors create an illusion of success with women, and that magic is primarily used to DHV. Now Adam’s wording was very clever in that he never directly accused TMM of creating illusions of success. He just alluded to it and I don’t remember the exact words. I have several problems with this. First of all, while Mystery might be a master illusionist, he is also a great chess player. He approached the game as a chess game, with contingencies upon contingency. Every move has a counter move, and every aspect of the technique is designed to progress towards the next step in the method. Mystery does not advocate magic as the only form of DHV. It’s just one among many methods to DHV. The method doesn’t just work on Mystery. It has worked on plenty of others, including Sinn, Savoy, Cajun, Tenmagnet etc., just to name a few. When Adam said that TMM creates an illusion of success, that turned me off. I have personally seen several students get good through a TMM BC. At this point, I realized that I’d made a mistake by returning the 2nd day. So I just decided to get whatever I could out of it.

The seminar progressed through the day. There was nothing revolutionary that I learned from it, that I hadn’t seen before. As I mentioned before, I was looking for more hands-on in-field training. While the PUA training website announces that there would be 2 day-game sessions, the logistics showed that one of the sessions would be solo gaming, one of my major sticking points. I was told to ask for 5 numbers from girls. However, I only talked to 3 girls and asked only 1 girl for her number. We went to the club, and after paying the $40 cover, we got in. As I was standing in the line, I tried to get into a talkative mood by using Style’s guy opener. However, one of the other students thought I was accusing the target of stealing my shirt, and laughed at me thereby blowing me out. It didn’t bother me as much because at this point, I was pretty much trying to get as much out of this as possible at that time.

I opened a few sets. Kyle actually winged me in one of them and that was pretty cool. Matt was trying his best. He would sit with me and push me on occasion. However, I still had a lot of AA and the negative experiences over the past couple of days seemed to take their toll on my mental state. Adam did push me as well initially but he was there with his girlfriend and wasn’t any feedback sessions in the field as I had originally wanted.

The 3rd day seminars were the same. At this point, things had just become a blur for me. We started day-gaming and I asked for a number and got blown out. At the end of the day game session, I was sitting with Amanda, and she said that we had to motivate ourselves at this point, and that they weren’t going to “hold hands.” This threw me off because there wasn’t much of walking through by the instructors in the field in the BC.

The planning was pretty bad. I was told that I would receive an email on the Monday (4th of August) prior to the BC. Moreover, August 4th passed, and I had no location. I had to contact the website to find out where the physical location was. By the evening of Tuesday, around 4PM, I got an email with the logistics and the schedule. This inconvenienced me tremendously because I was driving from Columbia, Missouri. I wanted to find a hotel close to the location. I wasn’t able to do that. All the hotels close to the location were reserved for the weekend, and I had to find a place near the airport, which is a good 1.5-2 hours away from Amanda’s house. First, I had to take a shuttle from my hotel to the train, catch the blue line to the transfer point, then catch the green line to another station, and then walk a mile to her place. Also, since there was construction on the tracks, I had to get off at Jefferson Park, catch a shuttle to the next station and take another train to O’Hara every time I traveled by train. This added an additional 1 hour of travel either way. This was particularly gruesome during the nights, when the trains weren’t that frequent. I didn’t reach the hotel until 4AM on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Consequently, it took me 2:45 minutes to get to Amanda’s place on Saturday, which made me miss close to 1 hour on Day 2. You know what, I shouldn’t blame anybody else for not starting earlier, but it still makes me wonder if it would’ve happened had I known the location earlier. I have been to the Stylelife WCC, and the location was advertised months before the actual event. I was consequently able to find a hotel within walking distance and it was cheap too. Which brings me to another point. We paid the initial $150 up front at the time of registration. I (and all the other students as well) was under the mistaken impression that we would be charged for the rest before the BC, at least that’s what the website said. Adam had to remind us during the BC. I contacted the website on the Monday after the BC, and I didn’t get a response until Thursday, when they eventually charged me. Weird.

I did my homework before I joined this BC. Adam’s BCs have received good reviews throughout. I am not one to believe everything I read, but I do believe that if there are converging reports saying that his BCs are very productive, it probably is productive. So imagine my surprise when, on Sunday, Adam mentioned that he was going to eventually stop doing BCs because he wants people to learn from his book and that would be sufficient. I interpreted that as him being in a stage where he’s in a committed relationship and he didn’t want to approach anybody at this time. I understand that, but my question is, if that is his situation, why offer BCs at all, that too one that seems cobbled together without properly experienced MPUAs or in-depth field training?

I read the following in another review of Adam’s BC: From an instructor’s perspective, bootcamps are always hard work. If you care for your clients/students, you make sure they are learning and improving under your watch but you also want to make sure they are having a good time. Sometimes, you have to sacrifice your own fun to make sure the student/client is doing ok. Sometimes, you have enough good instructors with you that you can afford to get a little enjoyment yourself while on the job. The full review is at Weekend Bootcamp With Adam Lyons | Kiss N' Tale. This was written by one of the instructors themselves. Most of the instructors weren’t making sure that the students were learning or improving. Kyle’s tactics actually made me want to approach less and less. At the end of the BC, my self esteem was so low that I had to go out with my friend and just hang out in the club environment in Columbia just to get back into my previous state. How is this an effective BC?

Adam mentioned that he was freelancing with PUA training, and that he was not constrained to do what they prescribed. The website advertises “paid guests to train in special areas of expertise from palm reading to fashion” (wasn’t there), live demonstrations (Adam didn’t do live demonstrations) with “expert guidance and exposure to a variety of different styles” (little or no feedback sessions in field), “palm-reading, hypnosis” (Adam didn’t mention palm-reading and said that he didn’t believe in hypnosis), “at least 3 MPUA Trainers” (was only one, Adam), “2 Day game sessions with frequent mini-feedback sessions” (one was solo, and the other had one feedback initially: Good, keep going. Then we had to go off and approach on our own) and “2 Night game sessions in bars and clubs with frequent feedback sessions” (there was, maybe some initial feedback, though I didn’t find it helpful much, and then I was mostly alone). Considering these inadequacies, why would PUA training advertise these on their website? I wouldn’t be writing such a negative review if just one or two of these issues arose during the BC. However, the fact that all these happened simultaneously made the entire endeavor completely wasteful.

I was debating whether to post this or not. I was also debating whether to show Adam and Amanda this review and ask them for their input. Then I realized that this is not going to change one thing. So here it is.

Tenmagnet · #3 (**permalink**) 08-18-2008, 03:23 PM

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your AFCAdam bootcamp. I've never seen his program, but I've met him a few times and always thought he was a good guy.

Quote:

There was a lot of trash talking and bragging of other programs, especially TMM. At one point, Adam was telling us about how TMM sends certain students that they can’t handle to Adam. I don’t know about that, but I am not going to question it. He also said that TMM was founded by Mystery, who is a master illusionist, and that his method works for him, in particular because he is a magician and because he is 6’6”. Adam also alluded to his belief that TMM instructors create an illusion of success with women, and that magic is primarily used to DHV. Now Adam’s wording was very clever in that he never directly accused TMM of creating illusions of success. He just alluded to it and I don’t remember the exact words. I have several problems with this. First of all, while Mystery might be a master illusionist, he is also a great chess player. He approached the game as a chess game, with contingencies upon contingency. Every move has a counter move, and every aspect of the technique is designed to progress towards the next step in the method. Mystery does not advocate magic as the only form of DHV. It’s just one among many methods to DHV. The method doesn’t just work on Mystery. It has worked on plenty of others, including Sinn, Savoy, Cajun, Tenmagnet etc., just to name a few. When Adam said that TMM creates an illusion of success, that turned me off. I have personally seen several students get good through a TMM BC. At this point, I realized that I’d made a mistake by returning the 2nd day. So I just decided to get whatever I could out of it.

Ok, this kind of bugs me. I don't want to bash Adam or anything, but he knows this isn't true.

First of all, we DO NOT send him any students. Some guys take multiple bootcamps with different companies, and I know that the London instructors have a good relationship with Adam, but we do not send him students.

Second, The Mystery Method had a lot of magic tricks around 2004... and a hell of a lot has changed since then. Especially since Mystery stopped working for the company, we've pretty much dropped magic all together. Adam knows this, and I'm kind of surprised he would say that. I suspect he's talking about the "old" Mystery Method guys, who left about two years ago.

Also, when you mention the "illusion of success", again, that's wrong. Every Lovesystems/Mystery Method instructor is aware of the difference between "flash game", which gets good reactions and looks cool, and "solid game" which is often less visually impressive, but actually produces better results - we only teach solid game.

Anyway, I just wanted to address those inaccuracies. Thanks for the post and the heads up.

Psych_ · #4 (**permalink**) 08-19-2008, 07:33 AM

I've been in the community for about two years and have had mild success that whole time. I knew pretty much every method out there and was doing the field work but the results were just not where they needed to be.

Since I learned of the community from "The Game" I adopted the MM style and while it worked there seemed to be a lot of incongruencies for me. Then my friend told me about some seminar by a guy I never heard of before called AFC Adam.

I was VERY reluctant to go. Honestly I didn't need to hear more MM with some guy's twist on it and figured I had all the information I'd need. My friend convinced me to go though and what happened later simply blew my mind.

Everything he said, literally EVERYTHING, was simple, different, and most important effective. From my experience in field I could see that what Adam talked about made complete sense. From entourage game, to social circle game, to the basic structure of game itself. Just when I was losing hope the PUA gods sent me Adam and my fire came back, I knew once again that this would be possible.

The best thing about it though was you could tell Adam is a normal and cool guy, he's not some guy trying to be all macho alpha but a self proclaimed geek which really just adds to his charisma. If you ever get the chance to meet him you'll see it's possible to get good, while being yourself, and not having to wear weird clothes or take on weird characteristics.

Also many say Adam doesn't demo, and this is true to an extent because it's pretty crappy for a guy with a serious girlfriend to really hit on other girls, but he is a naturally playful guy and I was able to see him action right away. While walking to a diner he instantly opened a 3 set like a bullet and before I could blink had all the girls pawing him, taking pictures with him, laughing, and he even put one of them in a shopping cart....don't ask.

The thing was though you could obviously tell he was holding back because of his relationship which IMO made the demo even more amazing. If you want an idea of the authentic good hearted nature of this guy and how much integrity he has then know the following. When we were all eating after the seminar he found out that I was having money issues. From talking with him he knew I was already decent and we were quickly becoming friends, so what did he do? He offered me to come on his bootcamp and help out however I can, free of charge! I don't know any other instructor out there who would do this. Most are in this for the money, Adam is 100% out there to help guys get good.

The bootcamp itself was incredible. We got more into his completely unique style that many other top instructors have began integrating into their methods, in some cases trying to literally copy his method and pull it off as their own. To me that's pretty sad, it doesn't hurt to credit a guy and if you feel a need to steal someones stuff that really reflects on your game. In fact anyone who has to steal someone else's stuff I can't imagine having more then 7 lays in their life or doing more with a HB10 other then fingering her.

Not only did we get Adam but his girlfriend Amanda as well who is absolutely gorgeous, and more importantly incredibly fun and genuine. She's the epitome of the "take home to mom" girl and I could instantly see why anyone in their right mind would want to start a relationship with her. Basically there right in front of us was physical proof that this is a guy we should listen to and that he's not just some guy with empty promises of getting good. As for Amanda I'm usually weary of female instructors but she actually knows her stuff as well and can give really useful feedback from the girls perspective. Her one down side is she actually thinks Brittney Spears and Justin Timberlake are cool....but we can't all be perfect.

During the bootcamp we went over everything in a practical to use way. Night game, text game, day game, how to flirt and break rapport, how to keep a conversation going, individualized feedback and sticking points...the whole nine yards. It was also done in an incredibly friendly atmosphere where you almost felt like a family and everyone looked after everyone else. The amount of concern for getting his students GOOD was completely evident the entire time, everyone could tell this was a guy who was committed to making real change. If anyone ever did have an issue or problem with something all they had to do was voice a concern and Adam would immediately see to it and fix it like a ninja on crack.

What kind of results can you expect from one of his bootcamps? During that weekend I fingered a stripper, within one week I slept with a hot blonde, since then I've developed a social circle of hot girls and have not only been hooking up with them but gotten tremendously better at my same night lay game. However the best improvement by far is I was finally able to find a way to make game work that fits MY personality without needing to resort to "DHV tricks" or things I used to consider weird but necessary to game. No longer! If you take this bootcamp you will instantly learn how to make YOU work and naturally be attractive to women. Adam doesn't teach the "how" which can be limiting and makes you always need more, he teaches the "why" which gives you a fundamental understanding of game that allows you to come up with a billion "hows" whenever you need it. Also like I said before, if you ever feel unhappy about the bootcamp all you need to do is voice your concern and he will move heaven and earth to make things right, guarenteed.

ant80 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 02:02 PM

After I made this post, I got a call from Adam himself. I wasn’t expecting that considering the negative review. I was pleasantly surprised. He seemed genuinely surprised about this review, and wished that I had voiced my concerns to him at the BC first. In all honesty, it was a valid point. When the BC didn’t meet my expectations, I should’ve talked to him. But I was intimidated during the BC, didn’t feel like getting a more negative response at that time. So I unconsciously assumed that he was going to blow me off if I had voiced my concerns to him.

Was I wrong! I don’t know what I was expecting when Adam called (Monday night), but it certainly wasn’t what I got. Adam made it clear that he was only interested in my advancement in this field. He said that he would work with me, give me daily exercises over the phone that I can do by myself. Skilled as he might be, he is no mind reader. I’ll admit that, in retrospect, it was not fair to post my concerns about the BC without telling him or bringing them to his attention during the BC. There are no other negative reviews of his BCs (believe me, I’ve looked). So I am making this addition to make sure that I give a fair review of the BC. I will keep updating as we go on.

PS: The edit button seems to have disappeared from my post. I wanted to post this text along with my post. Is that possible?

Northern Lights · #6 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 04:41 PM

I am glad for one that you posted your review. It is the only way that the people who teach will realize that they have to try their best to get it right the first time and take each BC and student seriously.

As far as daily exercises over the phone, I don't think they are enough. I would have asked for

1. A free BC where he gets some good instructors to work with you, if not
he himself.
2. A free 1 on 1 for two days

You don't owe it to him to look at your review and comment on it before you post it. You paid for the seminar already, thats really your only obligation to him except you have to be cool (not a distraction or difficult) when you are at the BC.

However, it it important to realize that things do go wrong the first time around that a PUA teaches. I am sure that Adam won't make these mistakes again when he teaches, and everyone will have your review to thank for that.

Sinn · #7 (**permalink**) 08-21-2008, 10:43 PM

I def did recommend students to take Adam's BCs to learn social proof and social circle game... So that is true.

Adam is awesome! He's one of the coolest, most down to earth guys I've ever met and an amazing innovator in the game.

He really does care as evidenced by him calling this guy, and a bunch of things I've seen him do for free at various events.

S

AFC AdamLondon · #8 (**permalink**) 08-22-2008, 09:50 AM

Heya guys!

What a crazy mess eh? I thought I'd better post some things to clarify.

First up Northern lights.

As well as offering free phone consultations I offered unlimited free bootcamps, and a full refund if he wanted. The student decided the best move for now was the phone consultations as he's about to go on holiday and then may take up the offer of the bootcamp at a latter date.

Heya Tenmagnet, Thanks for the message. i too would be upset if someone said something about the company I work for...however.

I didn't say anything about Love systems or the Love systems instructors. If you read through the message wrote by the student he doesn't reference anything specific.

To clairfy I do talk about certain things on the bootcamps.

1) I warn students to be wary of flash game. People who supposedly can do amazing things on film and in person where they get 60 sec closes myself included. Though this isn't real game. On the course we have a point of teaching why we get attracted, which is rarely anything to do with convincing a girl to give you her number in 2mins.

2) I mention that Mystery does indeed use Magic as a DHV and students should be wary of relying on that as their form of DHV. It works for him, but is unlikely to work for anyone else as their own identity isn't that of a Magician. Instead work on something that fits for them.

3) I actively plug LS products and instructors and have done so on numerous occasions. I don't plug VA things as I do have a few issues with them of my own, and may occasionally be found bad mouthing them...though in fairness I'd do it to their faces too.

4) Due to advertising LS I have actively recieved reccomendation of students from a number of the instructors and ex instructrs as Sinn kindly pointed out. I also would have no problem reccomendign an LS instructor to one of my students If I fet I was unable to help them within a certain area.

Phew...how much fun was that.

I love teaching this stuff and helping people out. I suppose when someone is so shy that they can't tell the person teaching them that they want things broken down a different way or werent happy with a certain situation then it can be easier to have a rant on a competitors forum as they don't know what else to do to get things fixed. I am always open to people and am more than happy to discuss anything with anyone. The last thing i want is for someone to feel they aren't getting the best treatment possible.

I pride myself on looking after my students and doing everything i can to help them succeed.

I hope this clairifes everything, if anyone does have any other questions to ask or feels they want to bring anything else up.

I'm completely open to it.

Until then just to confirm.

I love the LS guys, and the things they teach, I'm not so happy with the old ways that Mystery used to teach.

Hope this helps.

kind regards

AFC Adam

Press · #9 (**permalink**) 08-22-2008, 12:09 PM

Ant80,

Glad you talked to Adam and got things sorted out. I am sure that whatever it is you think would make it better he would be glad to do and more. Having only interacted with him a handful of times he makes genuine promises to help and always follows through.

Let me be one to add that having gotten my start in Love Systems/MM and having great friends in it as well I am deeply indebted to what they have taught me and the push they gave me. With that being said a good student always seeks out as many teachers as possible and Adam is an amazing teacher and with some amazing insights into game. I took one of his bootcamps and had a completely awesome experience (ha ha no I did not get laid as per first reviewer).

Even though he doesn't like to demo out of respect for his girlfriend. If you had asked him for one I am sure he would as he has done for me. That is how much he cares and you can tell that Amanda and Adam are both committed to this and put aside some of the relationship aspects of it in order to give a better teaching experience.

Also in our bootcamp there were several other MM trainees and bootcamp attendees. In my opinion I think that you can only make yourself more effective by learning his game and both can be combined for great results. I never experienced any putting down of other camps and it would seem strange as many of the MM trainers are his close friends.

So in short sorry to hear about your experience. I am sure like you already admitted that if you said it during the bootcamp Adam would have scrambled to fix it for you. However, I am glad you brought it up as ultimately your development is what's the most important and I sincerely hope that your concerns have been solved as that is what the Adam that I know would have done.

If not then he has surely been kidnapped and had an alien brain transplant

which means that the world gelato supply will finally have a break.

Press

chris3 · #10 (**permalink**) 08-23-2008, 10:31 AM

To add perspective here. Shash was an aproach coach and a guest speaker on my bootcamp, He was also an apraoch coach and a geust speaker on the london (august 10) bootcamp with lovesystems. (please check reviews) So I personaly feel you are not going to get better teaching for cheaper anywere at the moment than with AFC adam. Get it while it is cheap.