How to Date Tens You Meet Online : The Folsom Method

[Folsom]

Some of the hottest girls I've met have terrible profiles. In fact it's the sixes and sevens that have these really awesome profiles, because they spent eight years getting a masters degree in creative writing, while all the tens were at the gym every night.

But, yeah, it's definitely a problem when they're profile says NOTHING about them.

I addressed this question here, since it's not specifically about dating tens:

Stupid Boring Online Profiles

[SocraticMethod]

You mention that on match, it's a good idea to respond while they're still on line, because they're there and flirty. I've had good success with that, especially when I send e-mail 1, and they respond right away, we'll go back and forth and I can usually number or at least IM close pretty quickly. But what about a girl who waits several days to respond to a first e-mail? Do you suggest the texting rule of waiting at least as long to respond as she did?

[HeretoLearnbaby]

I like some of your advice, and your writting is pretty good. But a lot of the elements you mention can be found from the book "Double your Dating" (As I'm sure you know) - Not that that is a bad problem, but I am just wondering if any of this is new matieral?

Deangelo clearly demonstrates how sending "Mixed messages" drives women wild and they love it/. Acting uninterested, and then flirting with them, then acting uninterested again.

A lot of your information is sort of "Already said" - and you didn't really go into detail on "Openers, Negs"

One thing you're not making sense is that, you have your moral qualms on cheating and dating multiple women, one night stands, and branch into your personal opinion on the subject, whereas we don't really need to know that information.

Yet on the other hand, you find it perfectly reasonable to fake and stage an uninterested friendship for WEEKS or MONTHS, with the sole intent of getting her in the sack. O-K. Then you say "Don't get into a relationship", whilst telling us the sole purpose of meeting a TEN online is for a long term relationship. (What?)

And the guy was right, some of the info you're using I got from Tom Leykis, but a lot of the information you covered can be found in Double your Dating, david deangelo.

And now you guys are going into credit card debt, morgages, and other irrlevent topics, or the business of relationships. Can we stay on topic?

Okay, I'm not trying to sound like a critical asshole here, just giving my two cents. The interesting things I have learned from you are this.

-The importance of being selective (David Deangelo as well)
-Playing Hard to get (David DeAngelo) but you call it "Not emailing for a long time and acting busy, cool


Also one more thing, what you think is a TEN might be a TEN in someone elses book, I know women who are 8's but act like TENS, get treated like TENS and have the mentality of TENS, so it's all perception really.

Oh and by the way I am a total uber newbie, I'm just pointing out a few things I don't understand, so don't take my criticisms with any spite. Keep up the good work.

Okay here are some things I am wondering.

"What are some good, negging openers for 10's online?"

After I got her attention, then what? Do I go into Cocky/Funny? or do I start talking about how she's not my type?

Do I open with somthing about her profile to let her know I'm not intersted in her looks, her profile just caught my attention? (She's not my type, ect)

These would be some good things to touch up on.

The key thing right here though, is getting their attention. I'm not a bad looking guy, but as you know getting attention or a reply email from a girl is hard like a mother fucker. I can sit there, send 20 emails in a row, and probably get one reply, and it usually ends up in arguing or "DONT INSULT ME" or some touchy bullshit.

My 2 cents.

[heeyult]

Okay, so once you open where do you go from there? Do you go into standard game, or do you alter it for online in some way? Are there any particular routines you use?

[GABBO]

What are your thoughts, on married women who are on Relationship dating sites?

Like there is one that is interested in me, but she is married, looking for friendship and longterm relationship, that says that on her profile? is it worth gaming these girls who are married?

Do they tell there husbands about this sort of thing? it is a relationship site (RSVP) not an adult site, why would married women bother with such a site?

(I"ve made it clear on my profile, that i'm not looking for anything serious, but i am keeping an eye open, but mostly looking for friends and dating).

[Folsom]

Originally Posted by HeretoLearnbaby

One thing you're not making sense is that, you have your moral qualms on cheating and dating multiple women, one night stands, and branch into your personal opinion on the subject, whereas we don't really need to know that information.

Yet on the other hand, you find it perfectly reasonable to fake and stage an uninterested friendship for WEEKS or MONTHS, with the sole intent of getting her in the sack. O-K. Then you say "Don't get into a relationship", whilst telling us the sole purpose of meeting a TEN online is for a long term relationship. (What?)

Thanks for reading through the whole thread. You've made some great observations.

Did anyone notice that the last rule is missing? The reason why is that the last rule is the most important one, but I had two ideas of the direction I was going to go. I'll post both of my ideas and let you decide. This one is my favorite:

Without further ado, the last rule of the Folsom Method:

The 10th Rule of The Folsom Method: Tens Are Too Much Work.

If I've learned one thing from dating tens, it's that they are a LOT of work. It's a lot of work to create attraction with them, and that's only the beginning. Even if you manage to get them into your life, the fun has only begun. Soon you'll find their expectations are turning your life upside-down. Here are some things that tens have asked me to do:

- marry them, taking on tens of thousand of dollars worth of debt in the process
- hire their Dad
- move to another state
- lose weight
- quit my job (which I love)

It's mind boggling what girls will ask a guy to do. And there's a strong correlation between how hot they are, and what they expect from you. When you're dating a six, she's happy just to see you. Half the time you don't even have to bother taking her out. You can show up with a six pack of beer, spend 30 minutes on small talk, get to the sex, and leave. It's great to have a few sixes and sevens in your phone book, the kind of girls who'll have you over on an hour's notice. Face it guys, most girls WANT to have a relationship, and for a ten, it's easy. A ten *always* has guys lined up to date her. So she knows that she's in the drivers seat, and can demand a lot from a guy. Compare this to a six or a seven, who would also like a relationship, but can't get the guys to stick around. That girl will be all too happy to hang out with you, and won't make such brazen demands.

In all seriousness, think about this one long & hard. Would you rather make endless sacrifices for the rest of your life to please a ten? Or are you willing to compromise? If you must have a ten, my methods can help you find one. But if you're willing to compromise, you can be in the drivers seat. You can live the kind of life where having sex with someone is never more than a phone call away. You can have five girlfriends, including girls who won't expect you to pay their bills, who won't expect you to call them every day, girls who won't demand marriage and kids. Girls who are simply happy to see you for an hour or two a month.

In my experience, sevens and eights make more money, are more enthusiastic in bed, have lower expectations, are just generally more fun than tens are. Tens can be a real p.i.t.a!

Probably the worst part of this is that they're not tens for long! How many guys have you met who've married a ten, only to watch them gain 30lbs? Or they want to have kids immediately, which is a sure way to wreck your body.

Having said that, all is not lost! As you noted, it's all about PERCEPTION. There are sixes who think they're tens, and there are tens who think they are sixes.

It takes a LOT of work, but occasionally you'll stumble upon that ten who thinks she's a six. My current girlfriend is a great example of this. She had some serious self esteem issues growing up, and wound up in a lesbian fraternity in college (no joke.) She tried dating girls for a while, then realized she like guys better. So I'm the 2nd guy she's had a relationship with. Because of her self esteem issues, she doesn't have the typical attitude of a ten. In other words she doesn't expect me to pay her bills, marry her, buy her jewelry, pay for a wedding, etc etc. She also put up with all my BS, which would have sent most girls running. (In other words, she knew about all the other girls I was dating.) I am one happy dude.

[Folsom]

Originally Posted by GABBO

What are your thoughts, on married women who are on Relationship dating sites?

Like there is one that is interested in me, but she is married, looking for friendship and longterm relationship, that says that on her profile? is it worth gaming these girls who are married?

Do they tell there husbands about this sort of thing? it is a relationship site (RSVP) not an adult site, why would married women bother with such a site?

(I"ve made it clear on my profile, that i'm not looking for anything serious, but i am keeping an eye open, but mostly looking for friends and dating).

In my experience, MOST of the hot girls on dating sites are in a relationship. By far this has been my experience. In fact I've only met TWO girls in the past two years who WEREN'T in a relationship. The first had ended a marriage a few weeks earlier, and was playing the field. The second had just moved to my city, and wasn't ready to get tied down. That's IT. All the other hot ones had boyfriends. One was married.

I did a whole thread on this:

http://www.theattractionforums.com/f...-new-post.html

There are plenty of sixes and sevens who are single. Generally I stay in contact with two or three, just for sex. I don't even take them out most of the time. Just go to their place, have a couple of beers, have sex, and leave.

[Folsom]

I recognize that my posts can sound preachy at times, as if I know all the answers and I'm handing them down from on high. This isn't the case at all; I'm learning new things every day. For instance, I had two ideas for the 10th rule, and it took me six months to decide which way to go.

One thing that's been frustrating me recently is that a lot of women who I'm gaming "fly off the radar." What I mean by this is that I'll invest a month or six weeks gaming a girl, and then she'll disappear. Either she won't return an email, or her profile will disappear from the site entirely.

This week I tried something to address it.

Get the number ASAP
Most of the dating gurus encourage guys to get the girl off the dating site as quickly as possible. My recommendations are the exact opposite BUT ONLY FOR HOT GIRLS. If she's a six, by all means, ask for the number. But if she's a ten, it's been my experience that she'll cease talking to you. This week I went against my own advice, just to see what would happen.

I took three girls who I'd been gaming, and went for the number close. I'd been gaming each one for less than two weeks. I take things suuuuuuuper sloooooow, as you know. So even though it had been two weeks, I'd only sent each woman an email or two. The first girl was my favorite; she was very young and attractive, and well out of my league. When I went for the number close, she never replied. Just like I expected. The second girl was a hottie too, but not as young as the first. The 2nd girl was "only" nine years younger than me, and we'd sent three or four emails back and forth. We were definitely close to rapport. At first she didn't reply to my email asking for her phone number. Half a week later, she finally replied. I'm certain she was mulling her response, as she had replied to every other email in a matter of hours. After waiting half a week, she sent me a LAUNDRY LIST of questions. It was ridiculous! She asked me where I would be in four months. She asked what places I've traveled to in my lifetime. She asked me where my father's family is from. She asked me where my mother's family is from. She asked me to describe my work. AND ON AND ON AND ON...

I'm not making this up! Can you imagine that? Even though I was totally vibing with this girl, she sent me a LIST OF DEMANDS just to get a phone number!

Is it starting to make sense guys? If you go for the number close to soon, you'll scare the tens off.

The last of the three girls was the one I was least excited about. She was four years younger than me, unemployed, and needed to lose 10lbs. Keep in mind I have very high standards. In my book she's a seven, but some guys wouldn't factor in her unemployment or the fact she weighs 130lbs.

The third girl sent me her number.

It's a bummer that I blew up things with two girls who were HOT, but it's also comforting when I prove in the field what I've been saying all along: you can get mediocre girls in bed quickly online, but if you want to date tens, you're going to have to work at it.

Compress the timeframe

Another thing I tried recently was to compress the timeframe. Basically speed things up a bit. For instance, instead of sending one email every week, send three emails while she's online. This works well on sites like Match.com, which list when members are online.

This actually works quite well, but it's very time consuming. You basically have to spend an hour firing emails back and forth. Compare this to typical Folsom Method, where you're firing off an email that takes five minutes to compose, then investing another five minutes a week later. It's way less than half the work, of course you have to game lots of girls simultaneously to get good results.

[ThunderCat30]

Hey guys,

So my question is what's the best opening email to a 7+
that would get a reply?

I've been trying "I like your profile and want to know more
about you". I'd say it works 3-4 times out of every
10 emails I get.

I just received a reply from a sporty, athletic tall woman
in her late 20's with a graduates degree.

She writes this:

"hey there weekend was great.. a lil short though! lol! how was urs?

hmm i would say outter space... instead of staring at the stars from far away you can be right next to them!!

i love what i do for a living.. and i keep trying to move forward in it everyday.... i love it soo much at times i dont even see it as work!

what about u?"

I asked her what brings her passion and joy in life along
with what she thinks is the most romantic destination to
visit.

Her reply is listed above.

I was thinking of just telling her more as I'm a soon to be
personal trainer (already doing orientations, and still doing
some on the side IT projects).

How can I proceed in a way to get her to want to contact
me?

She obviously has brains and beauty so I have to be
very careful with my reply as I know it will make or
break a chance of interacting with her.

Thanks for your help guys.

I'd love to hear Folsom's opinion

[Folsom]

Someone sent me an email, and noted a couple of things:

I'm not selling anything.
This is true. I'm just a dweeby software developer unix dude who happened to stumble upon online dating half a decade ago. I'm not selling DVDs, seminars or consulting. Do you ever get the feeling that some "dating gurus" simply failed at another profession? I didn't go to college to be a philosopher or an actor. I'm an engineer. My day job pays just fine
The #1 reason I'm posting here is to combat the perception that there are only hideous girls on the dating sites. When I first did this, I found myself on dates with girls I'd never even dream of having a relationship with. After doing it for a few years, I came up with methods to isolate the tens. YES, it's a lot of work, but it's worth it. The key to making it work is to only invest a few moments on each person, but spread that investment over weeks or months. So you may be pursuing 10-20 women simultaneously, but you're making a small effort with each, spread out over a span of weeks or months. Compare this with the typical internet dater, who's investing hours online chatting with one girl, desperately trying to meet her in the real world. When he finally meets her, he's crushed to discover she's a five!
The #2 reason that I'm posting here is that I'm always open to learning something new. I'm fairly happy with the results I get, but I'd be happy to increase my responses, or pull more attractive women. So if you've discovered some new tricks, or you take issue with how I do it, please let me know! This is a collaborative effort.

He noted that I'm attractive
This isn't true. I'd say that I'm more attractive than average, but not by much. A lot of the gurus say you can grab tens if your game is tight, but I gotta disagree with this. In my experience, tens have a big laundry list of things they expect from a man. If you're strong in one area, it can offset weaknesses in other areas. For instance, a very attractive man can pull a ten easier than a very rich man. Here are some things which I believe have helped me personally:
money - The ol' standby right? But it's not about spending money, it's all about having money. This is something which is rarely mentioned in the community. I think it's because it would scare off potential customers if you revealed the ugly truth, that yes money makes a difference. One great thing about money is that you can fake it 'til you make it though. We've all met someone who spends their money on blingey watches and flashy cars. Personally I'm a big fan of real estate, I could write pages about how much a nice house can improve your dating success. But I digress. Bottom line, I'm a bit better looking than average, and older than a lot of guys here. I do fine. I think my financial success has helped.
looks - Don't kid yourself, a good looking guy gets hotter girls. The only thing that's a bummer about this is that looks fade! Ask Elizabeth Taylor LOL
spirituality - I'm always amazed that guys proclaim that they're atheists. Surveys have shown that women generally are more spiritual than men. If you're an atheist, that's fine, but advertising it can definitely hurt you. And if you have spiritual beliefs, this can frequenty raise your value in the eyes of a woman.
generosity - I read a whole book on this, and it's congruent with what I've seen IRL. Women are suspicious and combative with men who are stingy. Being generous with your time and money can earn you a lot of points.
style - Knowing a thing or two about style can frequently offset a deficit in the looks department.
fame - Women tend to look to their friends for affirmation when it comes to their choice of mates. If you're pre-selected via fame, this can go a long ways towards improving your odds.

Those are just a few things off the top of my head. Does it help to be good looking and rich? Yes, absolutely. If you are neither, then think long and hard about improving your other attributes. In my whole life I've never met a man who dated a woman because she was kind hearted, spiritual or generous. Yet I've met dozens of women who were attracted to their mates by these nebulous qualities.

Some guys could earn more points by talking about how they volunteered for their church, rather than how much time they spent in the gym last week.

Who wants to change their abilities with women and dating FOREVER?