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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 11:41 AM
Hardwired Hardwired is offline  - Male
 
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Folsom-

You have some interesting strategy going on here, very different from most other "get rich quick" schemes of dating, but I have a few questions:

1) Are you in/looking for an exclusive LTR, or are you in/staying with multiple LTR's (mLTR)? If the latter, do you let on to your "ten" that you are seeing other women as well?

2) Your rules 4 and 5 seem to contradict each other. You both qualify her then you disqualify her???

First, you make it clear that you are selective, and have chosen to convo with her based on her meeting your criteria (?), but then you *disqualify* her (you prefer other "types" etc.)? Is it a matter of, "well you don't meet my incredibly selective standards, but I'll hang out with you anyway, cuz we have this one thing in common (music, whatever)"?

3) If she is in LJBF, how do you maintain sexual tension? It seems like overt flirting is incongruent with the Friend's Zone. Is it more indirect, like tweaking her jealousy of other women you are/might be seeing.

4) At what point do you close, i.e., once she is firmly in LJBF zone, how do you go about closing, especially when another man is in the picture? Do you just push her buttons until she literally attacks you?

I am very interested in your approach, since I *AM* extremely selective anyway

I have an HB9.5 that I've been in this type of push/pull with for a long time, and I wouldn't mind pushing her firmly into LJBF, then teasing her with disqualification until she complies completely. The tricky thing is that she is a little bit LSE (in a nice, girly way , so I don't want to blow her out with disqualification. I have let her know that she is attractive to me based on personality, but fortunately I have refrained from physical compliments, so I might still be able to make this type of thing work.

Thanks for any clarification.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:33 PM
Folsom Folsom is offline  - Male
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardwired View Post
Folsom-

You have some interesting strategy going on here, very different from most other "get rich quick" schemes of dating, but I have a few questions:

1) Are you in/looking for an exclusive LTR, or are you in/staying with multiple LTR's (mLTR)? If the latter, do you let on to your "ten" that you are seeing other women as well?
In the thread I alluded that these methods can be disastrously successful.
It's intoxicating to have all these girls chasing you, but you have to be upfront, or else you'll end up in a world of hurt. I learned this the hard way.
At the moment I'm in the MLTR zone. I'm upfront with all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardwired View Post
2) Your rules 4 and 5 seem to contradict each other. You both qualify her then you disqualify her???

First, you make it clear that you are selective, and have chosen to convo with her based on her meeting your criteria (?), but then you *disqualify* her (you prefer other "types" etc.)? Is it a matter of, "well you don't meet my incredibly selective standards, but I'll hang out with you anyway, cuz we have this one thing in common (music, whatever)"?
The only reason that rule 5 exists is that the majority of tens are already in a relationship. If they are genuinely single, than you don't have to invest so much effort into rule 5.
Maybe it's different where you are, but tens always seem to be looking to "trade up." Of the last three tens I went out with, one lived with her boyfriend and another was married. The third said she was single, but didn't reveal that she was dating two other guys and trying to rekindle the fires with her ex!
Make no mistake about it, most tens are a total p.i.t.a.

You summed up what works for me quite well -
Do an say things that express to the target that you are selective, but there's something about her that's inspired you to spend time with her. Whatever that something IS, it better NOT be her looks.
Here is an example of how I do this. Recently I needed to spruce up my apartment. I called up one of these girls, and asked her to come with me and help me pick things out for my place. So we're spending time together, but it's not a "date." I'm not taking her out to dinner and trying to buy her affections. In fact she's doing ME a favor. Girls love to shop, and most will jump at the chance to have some company doing it. In addition, shopping for furniture or housewares triggers maternal feelings that come naturally for them. It's a good cheap pseudo-date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardwired View Post
If she is in LJBF, how do you maintain sexual tension? It seems like overt flirting is incongruent with the Friend's Zone. Is it more indirect, like tweaking her jealousy of other women you are/might be seeing.
There's a great story from Style where he discusses how simply spending a few hours with a woman is sufficient to get the gears turning in her head. You don't have to focus all of your attention on her. In his story, he said that he spent a few hours on his computer while a girl was over, then escalated when the mood felt right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardwired View Post
4) At what point do you close, i.e., once she is firmly in LJBF zone, how do you go about closing, especially when another man is in the picture? Do you just push her buttons until she literally attacks you?
I should have clarified something in rule five.
Even though you are *intentionally* putting yourself in the Friends Zone, it's a complete sham. Of course you're interested, otherwise you wouldn't be hanging out with her. That may be dishonest, but what other option IS there? In my personal experience, the tens are TAKEN already. If you come right out and express that you want to date them, what do you think they'll say? "I have a boyfriend."

Let me turn the tables for a moment, and tell a little story. I have a friend of a friend who is a doctor. A year ago he hired a new secretary, and she made it abundantly clear that she was good-to-go. So despite the fact that he's married, he began screwing her. Now at first you might think the girl must have ZERO self esteem to screw a married man, right? But think about it for a minute - how ELSE is a girl going to marry a doctor? She could spend months or years looking for a SINGLE doctor, but chance are good the single doctors are single by CHOICE. So even if she could FIND a single doctor, getting him to "settle down" might be impossible. When's the last time you met a handsome successful doctor who couldn't attract a woman? So instead she simply starts banging a married doctor. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the doctor's wife will drop him like a bad habit once she finds out, and then his secretary will get what she really wanted in the first place: A doctor to marry.

Yes, the secretary is a total home-wrecker. But what about the doctor? It's not like she forced herself on him. The doctor was looking to trade up - and so are many of the "tens" out there.

Yes, this opens a whole can of worms morality-wise, and rule 10 gets into that.

Like David D says, "attraction is not a choice." If you have your Mystery Method down cold you can create attraction in her without coming out and saying "I want to date you." In fact, saying that would get you shut out.

One thing I should clarify - you gotta make a move and make a move quick.
If you act like you're just friends, and then you don't make a move, you WILL just be a friend. Your kino should be completely incongruent with your words.

Here's an example. I mentioned that I recruited a girl to help me pick out some things for my place. After we did that, we had a drink at a bar down the street from her place. Then we ended back at her apartment, made out for a little bit, and I could have easily closed the deal (I didn't.)

So the WORDS are totally incongruent with the physical escalation. I'm agreeing that we're just friends, while escalating.

It goes without saying that push-pull is a huge part of this. You can't just take her clothes off or do something stupid like that. Respect her boundaries and you will be surprised how many girls will happily trade up to a new boyfriend.

If you ever watch prime time soap operas, love triangles like this are the bread and butter of these shows. Attractive women LOVE the idea of two men vying for her attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardwired View Post
I am very interested in your approach, since I *AM* extremely selective anyway

I have an HB9.5 that I've been in this type of push/pull with for a long time, and I wouldn't mind pushing her firmly into LJBF, then teasing her with disqualification until she complies completely. The tricky thing is that she is a little bit LSE (in a nice, girly way , so I don't want to blow her out with disqualification. I have let her know that she is attractive to me based on personality, but fortunately I have refrained from physical compliments, so I might still be able to make this type of thing work.

Thanks for any clarification.
If she has any inkling that you are attracted to her, getting out of the friends zone will be more trouble than it's worth. The idea with Rule 5 is to put HER in the friends zone as soon as you can discern if there's a boyfriend in the picture. Save up those disqualifications for the moment that she does the big reveal.

Here's one last example of this. In college, loooooong before I had any game I sat next to a girl who was one of those art-school freaks. Weird hair, was into all the newest bands, crazy clothes. To me she was a ten, but she had a boyfriend who was a total jock. Because he was a popular jock, I never let her know I liked her, because I figured I wouldn't get any where. Years later I ran into her at a club, and we began to talk. She revealed that she wished I had made a move on her, because she thought that I was so much cooler than her stuffy boyfriend. Looking back I realize that faking a lack of attraction turned her on to me. I wasn't trying to game her; in fact I feigned a lack of attraction because I assumed she would stop talking to me if I made a move. Live and learn.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 05:10 PM
Folsom Folsom is offline  - Male
 
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Default Timing is Everything

The 6th Rule of Folsom Method is:
Timing is Everything

This is the one rule I don't want to publish, because I'm bummed that other guys will start to use it. But the method is incomplete without this piece.

So here's how this works.

First, when you email a girl online, understand that an attractive girl will receive five or ten emails a DAY, or more. If your email isn't read by her within a day or two, you'll probably never hear from her again. The entire attraction phase hinges on getting through the noise that all the other guys are generating. Here's how to do this.

Saturday and Sunday morning are the best days to email.
When you send mails on Saturday and Sunday morning, you will hit the inboxes of the girls who are spending Friday and Saturday night looking for guys on the internet. If a girl is trolling Match on Saturday night at 10pm, she is GOOD TO GO. When you email girls on a Wednesday afternoon, two things are likely to happen:
- your email gets lost in the pile, and by the time your lonely target logs in on Friday night, you're buried.
- your target has a boring job and she spends all day trolling Match. She isn't really available - she's just bored at work.
Any girl who spends her weekend on Yahoo Personals is 110% ready to meet someone new.
When it comes to responding to emails, you can bend the rules, a *little.* If she's replied once, she's interested. But beware of getting lost in the pile.

Forward those emails FOO!
Go and get a gmail account. Set up your gmail account to forward responses to your personal ad. This is the greatest thing ever. Here's why:
- It allows you to read your responses without logging in. Nothing says "desperate" like a guy who logs onto Match twice a day (or more!) Remember, your targets can track how much you're on.
- By replying to the email, you can reply to your target without logging in.
- If you work in an office, it allows you to game girls and get your work done at the same time. Why waste time in a bar?

Respond Slowly
Cast a wide net, and take your time to respond. If you reply to her response the next day, you look desperate. I've generally found that the hotter the girl, the longer you should take between responses. I once made a girl wait FOUR MONTHS to meet me. She was really hot, and she wouldn't admit to living with her boyfriend, but my boyfriend radar went off (I was right.) So I took my sweet time getting the ball rolling, to be sure she wasn't just an attention whore. She kicked him out the same week I finally let her meet me. Did I have an effect? What do you think?

Respond Quickly
If you're on Match, and she replies to your email immediately, do the same. She's online RIGHT NOW, and this is a great opportunity to start chatting. Give her your full attention, and focus on getting the digits withing five or ten minutes of chatting.

Know When to Cut Bait
Based on the woman's value, decide up front how much time you will give her. Then stick to it. Everyone is different, and some women will be worth more investment than others.

I mentioned that I made one girl wait four months to meet me. This is an exceptionally long time, but I didn't believe her story about the guy she lived with. She said he was just a friend, but I had my suspicions. Though it was four months, I was investing very VERY little time. I would send three or four text messages a MONTH, and we would talk on the phone every couple of weeks. That's the RIGHT way to do it. A little bit of attention, spread out across a wide net, yields the best results.

Years earlier I did it the WRONG way, and I know a lot of you guys have too. I'd managed to attract a ten, but she turned me down when I asked for the digits. At that point I should have blew her off. Instead I continued to chat, and felt like I was her therapist. Eventually she said she met a new guy and started dating - I'm fairly certain he was there all along, and she was just lonely.

Be Busy on the Weekend
You may be looking for that lonely ten who's looking for love online, but you don't want to BE that lonely guy who's doing the same. So *don't* be anywhere near a computer on Friday or Saturday night. If she calls, ignore it. Responding to her txt msgs is OK to an extent. If you find yourself sitting there at 10pm on a Saturday chatting with your target online, she'll lose all respect for you.

3 Date Rule
The three date rule still applies. Just because you're putting YOURSELF in The Friends Zone doesn't mean you're going to be a eunuch. One of my good friends and I were discussing this recently. She told me that she's actually INSULTED when a guy doesn't make a move on her. She said that she loses respect for him.
Another friend of mine is a handsome guy, but he doesn't do well with cute girls. Whenever he's around a cute girl, he'll stare at her boobs, and you can tell he's infatuated with her looks. Girls are SO good at reading a guy, and that's why my friend fails to attract. He telegraphs his infatuation with nothing more than a look. Don't say you are disinterested in the target; express your disinterest with body language, negs, and disqualification. The hotter she is, the more you'll have to mix it up.
When you meet, plan your time together so that you have an opportunity to make the move. For instance, a ten once invited me out to get coffee. I turned her down, because there was no escalation path. If you're sitting in a coffee shop, how do you get her alone? It's easier to spend time with a ten alone when she believes you're not out to make a move on her. Aren't tens a p.i.t.a? They don't want to spend time with anyone who might make a move on them, yet they're insulted when a guy spends time with them and DOESN'T make a move. Tens are a tricky target!

Since the three date rule is in full effect, you might just get blown out the first time you meet. But is this different than ANY date? There are two possibilities when you first meet:
- You start the physical escalation at a very low level, progress consistently, and the meeting goes just like a "real" date.
- She pulls the "I have a boyfriend card." Don't argue with her. Just lower the kino intensity. If you're doing everything right, you'd be surprised how little the "boyfriend card" is played.

If she's genuinely comfortable with you, and there's a real attraction, she's not going to freak if you make a move. In fact she might just look down on you if you DON'T.

If you have the opportunity to F-Close in the first or 2nd date, I'd pass on it personally. That's a sure fire path to buyer's remorse. If you get close to it, pull back BEFORE she does, and she'll respect you for your self-control. As long as B.R. isn't in full effect, she'll see you again, at which point you can step it up again.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:13 PM
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Tom Leykis talks about the be busy on the weekend bit. The 3 date rule also. I was waiting for the, "if you don't have sex by the third date--DUMP THAT BITCH!"



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Old 01-13-2008, 06:42 PM
Folsom Folsom is offline  - Male
 
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Originally Posted by cheez avenger View Post
Tom Leykis talks about the be busy on the weekend bit. The 3 date rule also. I was waiting for the, "if you don't have sex by the third date--DUMP THAT BITCH!"

-cheez avenger
It would be interesting to set up a seperate thread about the three date rule. It's another one of those chick things that's totally ass-backwards. Every girl I've talked to agrees: when they really like a guy, they are LESS likely to have sex with you. So all those guys who are trying so hard to make the girls like them are actually DECREASING their odds.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:49 PM
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BTW, I DON'T use the Tom Leykis method. I was just noticing the wording. I got a sense of deja vu.


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Old 01-14-2008, 12:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Folsom View Post
Your post implies that you're not convinced that a LTR is a worthy goal.
For me the jury is still out -
I address that frame of mind with rules nine and ten

On the contrary, I'm convinced that my own personal goal could only be an LTR. I dont like drama and if I have to deal with it, I'd like it to be with someone who's going to be making me beautiful babies. And a 10 would perfectly qualify

But I'll sit back and look forward to the rest.

A smart man once said: Women are like parking spots, all the good ones are taken and the ones left are handicapped.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2008, 02:24 AM
PrinceNZ PrinceNZ is offline  - Male
 
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Folsom -- could you address an ambiguity? Is this "how to date tens" or "how to fuck tens on a regular basis". There is a difference, and you haven't got to the point where you prove its the latter!
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Old 01-15-2008, 11:04 PM
Nutz Nutz is offline  - Male
 
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Good thread. I can't wait to try some of these out this week.
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:25 PM
Folsom Folsom is offline  - Male
 
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Originally Posted by PrinceNZ View Post
Folsom -- could you address an ambiguity? Is this "how to date tens" or "how to fuck tens on a regular basis". There is a difference, and you haven't got to the point where you prove its the latter!
This thread is definitely about *dating* a ten.

A whole bunch of this stuff requires way more work than you would invest in a seven or an eight.

In fact, a lot of things that work on a ten will scare sevens and eights off.
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