climbing the mountain of fear - Portland & Kells Irish Pub

[portlandbirdman]

I've never had a serious relationship with a woman. I'm 41 and looking to find a lady I'm attracted to & can get along with who wants to have kids (a woman say between 24 and 36). I'm aware that mentioning kids up front is generally a no no. And I'm quite willing to play the field and to have short term flings to see if one is suitable to go longer term. I moved from Utah to Portland to start a new life. In Utah I never felt comfortable engaging in serious dating. Now that I'm in Portland I'm coming out of a box where now I actually feel like dating and having a woman around full time.

This evening I went to an Irish pub called Kells. Here's what occurred. I'd appreciate some feedback.

When I arrived I found two ladies sitting at a table talking. They eyed me a bit, but they didn't smile per se when they saw me. They were engaged in a heavy conversation. It was unclear to me whether I should have tried to talk to them since I was alone and they were two. I was more attracted to one of the two.

I had a pint of Guinness which I thought would help. It loosened me up a bit. But then I went on to have a red vodka drink. That put me into sleepy mode.

In a dating book I've been reading (How to Succeed With Women) it says not to be concerned about outcomes. But after a pint of Guinness and some red vodka thing, I became so unconcerned about outcomes that all I wanted to do was go home and sleep.

My apartment is clean & nice & largely ready for a visitor. But perhaps it's a mistake for me to start drinking right off, or at least to not drink so much so soon.

In the cigar bar downstairs I saw a lady sitting alone at a table. I thought about asking if she wanted someone to talk to. But I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm not a smoker, and I have four parrots so having a smoker around full time would be bad. But I could certainly live with the short term affections from a lady who is.

There were lots of nice looking women at the place. It was a different setting than what I saw two weeks ago. Sometimes you never know what you're going to get there or what's going to happen. This is my third visit to the place. Each time I've not had the balls to ask. But the environment was generally fun.

All in all I would say there were two or three instances where I could have jumped in and spoken to someone. In two cases they were instances where two women were sitting together talking. And then the lone woman downstairs.

It's still unclear to me what you're supposed to say when two women are talking at a table and when you're attracted to only one of the two.

I do feel bad for not approaching anyone, perhaps particularly the lady downstairs. But I know that tomorrow's another day.

When I'm tired and have had one too many drinks it doesn't help. And the fact that in public I don't typically approach people to talk to - that's another contributing factor.

This evening I arrived at about 9PM, and left at 11:15. After the two drinks I walked around the streets a bit & saw many other people. But my motivation for approaching or speaking to anyone was gone.

During the day when I have my birds out with me, people tend to talk to me because they see my cool birds. At work they talk to me because they need a problem solved.

I can teach classrooms of people. And I can talk to people at an event I organize. But asking a woman I'm attracted to at a bar if they want to talk, I'm not quite there yet. But maybe I'm a bit closer.

It would be a lot easier if I had someone to go with. But the problem I have approaching women caries over or is also directly related to the fact that I have no wingman per se.

Anyway in hindsight I realize I need to a.) not drink too quickly at a bar or club, and b.) do more approach more people away from bars for any type of conversation.

If you have some comment on how to approach two women sitting at a table, when you're attracted to one of the two, and when you don't have a wingman, please let me know.

Also FYI much of my life was spent as a fat man with thick glasses. Now I'm skinny and the thick glasses are gone. My profession is one of service, and my personality type tends to go along with a teacher type. But I still want to be able to have the balls to get a woman I'm attracted to, and not one who is fairly unattractive to me who approaches me because no one else will approach them.

I have done bold things such as quit my job in Utah and move to Portland with no job waiting. Also I did some past public protests on issues I care about. But none of that involved reaching into my emotional heart and trying to share it with someone.

And I can be wry and funny and outrageous, but I need to have some fairly thick ice broken to do so.

Before starting reading the book mentioned above I also read the Guide to Picking up Girls. That book advised to just do bold things regardless. But I haven't been able to force myself quite yet.

[Quills]

Read "Magic Bullets." It will answer all these questions for you. I know going to bars alone sucks, though. If your going to be frequenting this place often, get to know the bartenders, people that you see regularly there, etc. You need to be seen talking with other people to gain some status. It will make your night more comfortable as well, and get you more in a social groove. You need to be social, be fun, and have fun! Emerse yourself in the information available in this community.

The birds sound like a good tool for starting up conversation, work with that.
Dont ask anyone if they "want to talk." Engage them with something interesting enough that they will want to talk to you. Be a man and start the interaction, they will rarely initiate it. Ill say it again- devote yourself to learning the methods of this community.

good luck

[dubious]

Hey parrot guy. I'm a newb here too, and trying to work out my Fear of the Approach. I'm just beginning to practice by trying to talk more to strangers I meet. Once upon a time, I made a commitment to myself. I decided that if I was ever in a public place waiting for something, I would talk to the people around me. Every person you meet is almost as complex as the entire universe. There is something to learn from each person you see every day. About 10 years ago, when I adopted this philosophy, I was amazed at how deep and fascinating these people actually were. And I did, in fact, meet lots of beautiful women. Somehow I slipped out of that habit of talking to strangers every day, but I am ready to begin again.

It's really like exercise... you will develop your social muscles with practice. Talk to everybody you can, but also talk to every beautiful woman you can, as well. Checkout this great post on "Day Game":

Day Walking: The Differences between Day and Night Game

Mainly the challenge at the end:

• Ask 5 beautiful women, “Excuse me, do you know what the time is?”
• Ask 5 beautiful women, “Excuse me, do you know where the nearest coffee shop is?
• Ask 5 beautiful women, “Excuse me, do you know where the nearest men’s fashion store is? [She replies]. Oh thanks, I’m trying to get some new shirts. You’re very well dressed, do you have any tips for me?”
• Tell 5 beautiful women, “Excuse, I just saw you walking past and I thought you were really cute, I had to stop and say hello. How are you?”

If you do that, you'll be ready to approach those babes at the bar.

Good luck, Parrot

[portlandbirdman]

Thanks very much for the notes. Having actually pushed myself out the door and having done some exploring this evening I'm feeling substantially better. Here's a log of what I did on Saturday in Portland:

I visited Kells Irish Pub on Saturday evening.

I arrived at about 7:30PM. There were some good looking women but they were younger. I wasn't sure whether it was kosher to approach any of them.

I watched several people, and a few caused their eyes to go to mine but they weren't smiling, so I assumed that meant they weren't interested. However at past visits to this pub some women did smile and one did say hi. I was still too verklempt to act, sadly. And at a pub you never know what you're going to get.

At about 9PM I went to Greek Cusina, as per the recommendation of an a guy I asked in my apartment complex. There was a bridal party going on - a hen's night out. There were many young attractive females dancing around. At one point they came over and saw that I had white socks. They were doing a scavenger hunt and one of the items on the list was to kiss a guy wearing white socks. So they decided to kiss me. So that was nice. As they passed one of them did put their hand on my shoulder. Sadly I didn't keep track of which one did that. However I did hang around the dance floor while they danced in the event that whomever did touch me wanted to say hi again.

Before I went upstairs at Greek Cusina I sat at the downstairs bar. I said "Hi, my name's XXX" where XXX is my first name to one lady. She wasn't feeling well though (as per what the told the bartender earlier) & she left. Next two ladies came in & sad next to me. I again said "Hi, name's XXX." I wasn't really attracted to the lady I said hi to. But one her companion responded by muttering "looser." After that snotty response I went upstairs and found the "hen party" going on, where I got kissed by one lady and touched on the shoulder by another.

After watching the "hens" dance around on the dance floor at Greek Cusina for a while I left and returned to the area of Kells. But I decided not to go in since it was 10:30PM and I had already been out for several hours. But I did mill around the outside of the other nearby clubs for a while.

After I returned home I visited a pub right next to my apartment. There was a lady bartender in there who I spoke to about the religion of my youth & why I had left it. Also about how I had come to Portland to start a new life. I had some chocolate ale which was nice. I prefer dark beer.

Anyway, so here's a tally of what occurred this evening:

1. I went to one bar/pub and wasn't sure whether it was kosher for me to actually open my mouth and speak to the well dressed 20 something ladies in there.

2. I went to a restaurant with two bars, one downstairs and one upstairs. In the downstairs bar I said hi in a possibly dorky manner to two different women. One walked away but she wasn't feeling well. The other set that sat by me muttered "looser" when I opened my mouth to speak to them.

3. In the upstairs part I found a bachelorette party going on. They did have a sex blow up doll and a huge blow up penis they were toying with in their party. Greek dancing ensued, and there was a belly dancer. I got kissed by one of them as per a scavenger hunt. And touched on the shoulder by another. Sadly I didn't keep track of who touched me. And I still felt held back by the prospect of actually speaking to a lady quite a bit younger than I am.

4. Next I spoke to a lady bartender at a pub which is right next to my apartment about why I came to Portland.

My dress was an orange striped shirt and black 501 button-down preshrunk jeans. Clean shaven and a nice haircut.

As I milled around the other clubs I watched the people, their faces and conversations. Some looked at me. When they did I said hi and smiled. I observed the people in Kells generally hanging out in groups.

Before I went out I determined that I only had one life to live and that I was going to live it.

The day is now Sunday and later today I'll work on doing more approaching. On Saturday during the day I did visit the Rose Garden in Washington Park with Gizmo (my female Timneh Grey Parrot). Some attractive ladies spoke to me once they saw her. I didn't ask for their phone number. And if I did I bet it would come off as dorky and forced. Who knows. I guess you've got to start somewhere.

Flirting with every possible women would be nice. But coming off as some sort of idiot isn't pleasant. I could use my professional quality voice perhaps. But I have the impression that the mere act of opening my mouth in the context of trying to pick someone up would result in much laughter. Maybe I'm wrong. But it was nice to be touched.

For the coming week I've signed up for speed dating, but I'm not sure if the event will occur. Also I'm planning to check out some social events for the non-religious to see if I can find a bar hoping partner (and of course a dating partner too). And also I'm thinking of using meetup.com as a means of emailing women - the ones who're members of the same meetup groups I am.

Thanks again for the advise. Later today I'll work on more research and implementation.

Also one book I mentioned previously advises that sensitive men go to strip clubs more, and to stare in the dancer's eyes while they're doing their thing. It also advises eating more meat. All that sounds cool. Maybe a strip club visit or two will help reduce my overall dorkiness regarding pickups. Also listening to hip hop and indie rock is helping, instead of spending all my driving time listening to NPR. And I do have some weights I'm starting to use. Why I've waited to do all this until I was 41 is beyond me. But getting out of Utah was key.

p.s. I also recently found a good blog at the following site:

http://datingguy.wordpress.com/2007/...ttempts-16-17/

Also I just found the following list of places hen parties tend to take place in Portland:

http://portland.citysearch.com/roundup/41197