Q&A with Savoy, student audio

[apg96]

Originally Posted by Vapor

I'm going to leave my original reply but take a more compassionate angle since after some thought I believe tough love clearly isn't going to work.

agp96, from the theme of a lot of your posts you pretty clearly seem down and are finding things impossible that, if motivated, are not difficult to accomplish. I think that if you started exercising regularly, cut out the booze, and got into some yoga/tai chi/prayer/therapy of some kind you'd be feeling a lot better about yourself quickly, and women would respond.

In your current state, I don't know how you go from where you are now to getting good with women with game alone. It just doesn't work. By that measure, I don't think you can get any help with PU here. I'm not banning you, but the occasional advice guys get about taking a break from PU and working on other aspects of their lives certainly seems to apply to you.

Well vapor, you seem to have hit this on the dot. I have said many times in many post that i have clinical depression. I am down, very down, lower than i have ever felt before. But as such, i fell i can only go up (my therapist finds my positive out look very odd for my depression) . I am in therapy trying to work this out. I am on anti-depressants. I am working out 3 days a week to also help with the serotonin levels in my head. I also have not had any alcohol in 2 months (although that is where my money went last semester).

I know that i need to fix my inner game first and for most. But as you know a TON of my post have been on my appearance in an effort to raise my confidence. I am planning on starting Muay Tai kickboxing to help me even more. I am even reading a book on becoming an alpha male (which i wont post the name so this post doesnt get deleted.) It is all in an effort to boost my self image, self esteem and self confidence.

I felt that this is what has been missing in my life. But since believing that, i have seemed to slip even lower. I have taken a step back and looked at my life and my friends and thus determined that i have none.

My self reasoning in my relentless effort to improve my self in attraction is that it could help me make my self happy. I feel that i have control of my self esteem and such but i have no control in this aspect. The first time i have felt happy in months was yesterday when i used skills in which i have picked up here and actually got a girl to OFFER me her number.

With this said i respect your opinion, your maturity in posting your 2nd reply (which actually got me warned FYI). With that said i will continue to look here for information (as well as other places) on pick up.

Why? B/c without pick up i dont have a single thing in my life that can make me feel happy. So why would i cut this out of my life?

[Vapor]

OK, I was off base in my previous rants in a couple ways.

Originally Posted by apg96

I am in therapy trying to work this out. I am on anti-depressants. I am working out 3 days a week to also help with the serotonin levels in my head. I also have not had any alcohol in 2 months (although that is where my money went last semester)... I am planning on starting Muay Tai kickboxing to help me even more.

You are clearly taking responsibility for your life in all the ways that count. No matter what else if fucked up right now, you should be very pleased that you are taking the exact steps necessary to get things squared away. Most guys your age don't. This is a big deal.

I felt that this is what has been missing in my life. But since believing that, i have seemed to slip even lower. I have taken a step back and looked at my life and my friends and thus determined that i have none.

You might be looking at yourself as somehow not adequate in some ways. That's not the case. The problem is you perceive yourself that way. When the perception changes, the women will come (pun intended).

My self reasoning in my relentless effort to improve my self in attraction is that it could help me make my self happy. I feel that i have control of my self esteem and such but i have no control in this aspect. The first time i have felt happy in months was yesterday when i used skills in which i have picked up here and actually got a girl to OFFER me her number.

Excellent.

With this said i respect your opinion, your maturity in posting your 2nd reply (which actually got me warned FYI). With that said i will continue to look here for information (as well as other places) on pick up.

Resist the urge for more information. Lots of guys, myself included, think they need more info. After the basics you're good to go. Just work with with that and spend the rest of the time improving your life in other ways.

As my tone was based on a mis perception I had of you, I apologize. Good luck and let me know if I can help.

[Savoy]

Originally Posted by apg96

Has the OAP turned more to advertising than teaching? I think so. This one is better than the last one, but it used to be i would read the whole thing. Now i get a list of upcoming bootcamps, and reviews of them alot. This Q&A was good, but i remember the old days when you had one section for beginners and then another more advanced section.

Hi, APG!

The "old days" you are talking about are the first 8 OAPs. Everyone gets these when they sign up (sign up under a new email address; you'll see) and they are designed to bring both beginners and advanced guys up to speed so everyone will understand what goes out in the regular, almost-weekly, broadcasts. I don't think the broadcasts ever had a split section. Nothing's changed there.

There have been a couple of changes to the OAP. For one thing, instead of being every 6 weeks or so, it's nearly every week. It's true that we don't do those mammoth 10-page OAPs as much anymore, but over 6 weeks, you get far more free content that you did before.

It is also true that often the content that is given away in the OAP relates to new programs we are teaching. This makes sense from a business perspective. Someone needs to pay the bills. In addition, it makes sense from a teaching standpoint. We release new programs when we have something new and useful to say. The Day Game program and the Relationship Management program are prime examples of this. If we have enough new to say about something to put on a whole-day seminar, we have enough new to say about it for a few pages in the OAP.

I personally think we put way more free content in the OAP than anyone else does in their free newsletter. If we don't, tell me which other newsletter I should read. I do want the OAP to be by far the best newsletter in the community.

I also think when you combine the OAP, the instructor blogs, and the Forum, not to mention all the downloadable stuff on the website, we provide more and better free information than anyone else. Again, if I'm wrong, tell me about who is better so I can learn from them.

That being said, just being better than everyone else is too low a standard for us. We are constantly improving always looking for input. To that end, I want to thank you for writing this. I would hope that you (and others) continue to point out specific suggestsions for improvement in everything we do, including the OAP.

You haven't been and won't be censored as long as you abide by the rules. Despite rumors to the contrary by commercial competitors, we do not censor the Forum in any case other than a violation of the terms and conditions.

As for your question about attending a bootcamp, I pulled this out of the Forum FAQ:

Q: I can't afford the e-book or a bootcamp. What can I do?

A: First of all, you don’t have to go to Mystery Method Live Training Programs. If you can find a highly-advanced seduction expert who is also a good teacher (generally someone who learned from the ground up… "naturals" make the worst teachers) and is willing to take you under his wing, there's no need. You're also welcome to learn here by reading and posting, for free, for as long as you want.

While no one gets involved in seduction for the money (you can believe our accountant on this one), we do expect people to take responsibility for themselves.

For example, please don't write asking someone to buy the e-book for you, or for discounted or pirated copies of the e-book. The e-book is $68. If you don't have $68 in disposable income, your life is likely very much out of control. Even women who aren't materialistic are generally not attracted to men who can't take care of themselves.

If you are committed to improving your game, and want to attend a bootcamp, then it's time to prove how important success with women is in your life. You have to make it happen. Women are attracted to men who get what they want, despite the obstacles.

First, see if something cheaper would fill your needs. The seminar-only program at most Comprehensive Bootcamps is less than $1,000. One day of 1-1 Individualized Training is usually $1,500 with a Master Instructor or $1,200 with an Approach Coach.

But say you are determined to improve your success with women, and you need another $1,500. Well, get off your computer. Spend less time with beer, porn, the internet, the TV, or doing things that won't change your life. Anyone can make $10/hr part-time. Heck, become a Mystery Method Affiliate with us, and we'll train you how to make a lot more. Anyone has five free hours a week. If you don't have five free hours in a week, you either need a new job, or you're making enough from your job now). So that's $50 right there, per week, at a minimum. Earn or save $50 a week, and we'll see you in a bit over 6 months. If it's not worth that kind of effort, you won't get the most out of the bootcamp anyway, and it's probably all for the best.

Who wants to change their abilities with women and dating FOREVER?

[apg96]

Savoy first off, i do own the DVDs and i also own the ebook. Both GREAT stuff.

As far as OAP, i was talking about the first 8. They were great. You are right in saying that since those first 8 there hasnt been a split section.

Right now, i would like to say the best newsletter, and one you should maybe look at is carlos xuma's. This may b/c his incorporates alot of inner game which is what i need. BUt he still ends every answer with buy my book.

Also if you could put videos in the OAP that would be awesome.

as far as a job goes, im currently applying but i would be lying if i said that its to get to a bootcamp. My passion is racing cars and for the same amount of money as a bootcamp i could race for a weekend. and then end up with alot of DHV stories.

But if there was a bootcamp that was under 1k (which i didnt know existed before), and they are where i am (no traveling expenses other than gas) then i may consider that.

Every thought about a under 21 bootcamp. It may be hard for those under 21 to get into the venues you guys use.

Who wants to change their abilities with women and dating FOREVER?

[Mister E]

Originally Posted by apg96

My passion is racing cars and for the same amount of money as a bootcamp i could race for a weekend. and then end up with alot of DHV stories.

Or maybe cool stories about how you lost an arm racing, and then downed $1000 on clinical bills, and with the ticket for racing.

I'm talking about if your saying illegal stuff here, if your doing it legit at a track, then kudos man. Just don't go for pink slips.

Originally Posted by apg96

But if there was a bootcamp that was under 1k (which i didnt know existed before), and they are where i am (no traveling expenses other than gas) then i may consider that.

Every thought about a under 21 bootcamp. It may be hard for those under 21 to get into the venues you guys use.

Local Lairs? If not then ionno man.
Check out antmans thread on the under 21 convention.
Basically a bootcamp and seminar for people under 21 or older.

It would be just the traveling and gas.


I agree the first 8 OAP's were awesome and then for a time after that they were still good, but now it feels like theyre lacking.

I'm saying in content, the stuff is still there, but it be better if there was more.

Now, I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not going all crazy checking my mail everyday to see if I got a new OAP.
I check my inbox, cool its there and just read it.

But your last couple ones were lacking like I said.
I noticed that one had almost nealry, 1/4 or 1/3 of the page full of bootcamps and such.
And all other seminars.

I have no problems with you guys keeping up as a business, Its not always great to see someone fall, keep it up and rise to the top.

I just don't like the whole page full of a bootcamps being advertised, this may be an issue only to me since I won't be going to a bootcamp anytime soon, so I don't pay attention to them, but when they take up lots of space from what I'm into its not pretty neat.

Its kinda annoying like a tease.
A good example would be men's health with their little booklets they give and previews.

Kinda like, this super secret will save your life.
Read it on page blah blah blah, after you buy the book for only $$$$$


But maybe keep a small link that redirects to all your bootcamps.

Maybe someone in your team should work on an independent OAP issue thats just like the old 8.
With a beginner and advanced section, with new techniques or whatever you may like to use.

Its just a thought.
It'd put a smile on my face >> << if you did that though.

Who wants to change their abilities with women and dating FOREVER?

[apg96]

yes i race formula dodge completely legal. Its always on a race track last was one at Laguna Seca. Its run by skip barber racing schools. And i have health insurance for any injuries but i dont see them likely. And they have medics on screen. No drag racing shit here. I hate those idiots that not only put their own lives in jeopardy but also those around them, and innocent ppl on the streets.

[Mister E]

Originally Posted by apg96

yes i race formula dodge completely legal. Its always on a race track last was one at Laguna Seca. Its run by skip barber racing schools. And i have health insurance for any injuries but i dont see them likely. And they have medics on screen. No drag racing shit here. I hate those idiots that not only put their own lives in jeopardy but also those around them, and innocent ppl on the streets.

Holy Shiit! that sounds like fun man.
Thats a DHV and passion mixed in togheter.

Damn, laguna seca....Hah, gran turismo has taught me a lot

[GameBoy]

The argument is that a free resource isn't good enough?
Am I getting that right?
"it's good, but not as good - for free"
Yes? That's the argument? And that bootcamps, a skill-based industry with a degree of overhead and limited space, cost too much?
Again; am I getting this right?
And, that partying and alcahol are vital needs to ones life?
And, if any member of the forum team disagrees, they're trying to force you to pay money?
And if you speak out - we censor you?

Am i getting all this?
Or, did I censor all that out?



Tell me one time that your posts - not the post of someone saying unchallenged things for their own motives - has been altered to make you sound foolish? Link me to that post.

Who wants to change their abilities with women and dating FOREVER?

[apg96]

I didnt say it wasnt good enough. I said that its quality has declined. I dont think you read all the messages. Vapor and savoy explained about how the first 8 OAP are sent to everyone to bring them up to speed. That makes perfect sense. It has so much info b/c its all on info that we didnt know before. I then added some suggestions to vapor b/c they asked if i could think of anyway to make them better, b/c they pride themselves on having the best. I complied.

[GameBoy]

Originally Posted by apg96

I didnt say it wasnt good enough.

if the quality had declined, yet was still good enough; you never would have mentioned it. You would have been satisfied.
Thus: It is not good enough.

It's your own logic at work APG.