Playing the game online

[Damage]

Sarging online: my advice
I confess to being relatively new to the game, but I am the founder and manager of a very popular online dating website and thus would like to share some advice and guidance with you on the topic of sarging on the internet. I hope people will add their own comments to this.
Basic points:
Sarging online isn't all that different to sarging in real-life. The same techniques can be applied, but need tweaking.
In 99% of cases, rather obviously, you're dealing with one-sets, which means we need to plan our approach carefully.
Lairs:
Broadly speaking, the best places to sarge online fall into two categories: online networking sites, and online dating sites. There are pros and cons to each:
Online dating sites:
Pros:
Women are

• already primed to be sarged and are actively looking for men
• Women are more responsive to your approach
• Women almost always outnumber men
• Women are generally of a higher quality than the men on such sites, which makes it easy for a well-presented guy to succeed.
• Women tend to keep their online presence secret, so you can use the same techniques on lots of women without them finding out

Cons:

• Women tend to be - on the whole - of a lower quality than in real life. Everyone tries dating sites once, but some women linger on dating sites because they have an issue somewhere in their life: either looks, personality or neediness
• The best sites charge to use them
• Dating sites vary significantly in quality and outside of the big 3 sites the smaller sites have very few members

Online networking sites:
Pros:

• Women are already primed to meeting men
• Embarrasingly easy to approach

Cons:

• Higher male/female bias than dating sites
• Such sites can attract a lot of sleazy, creepy guys which creates an aura of cynicism amongst the women towards the men
• The popularity of online networking sites means that they are less intimate than dating websites, which means women tend not to respond to approaches with such fervour.

1. Best sites to visit
These are just my personal views, so feel free to add your comments:
MySpace.com
Huge, online networking site - huge US bias but gaining ground in Europe, particularly the UK. On the plus side, it's easy to search for targets, but on the down side it sometimes feels frustratingly kitsch, takes ages to load and it's enormous popularity means that its members tend not to progress from meeting online to meeting in real-life.
You search for people under the 'Browse' option (not 'Search') and then refine it down under the advanced tab.
Facebook.com
The 8th most visited site on the entire web (it is reported), this is a massive online networking site that has a more professional focus than MySpace, linking people by university and school. People tend to log onto it for social recognition rather than to actually meet people, so it's less effective than MySpace.
Faceparty.com
This, for me, is the best of the three, because it falls halfway between an online networking site and an online dating website. Unlike MySpace and Facebook, faceparty.com doesn't have any feature for listing all your friends publically, which moves the focus from social proof to personal satisfaction. Easy to search, full of adventurous women and easy to sarge.
The best of the rest:
Match.com, linkedin.com, datingdirect.co.uk, freedating.co.uk, adultfriendfinder.com, friendfinder.com.
Basic principles that apply to all sites:
I've found these basic guidelines are appropriate no matter which site you use:
1. Make your profile stand out.
Say something unusual or interesting about yourself. The standard MM rules work here: peacock online either with an outrageous photo, or an outrageous claim about yourself: For your job, list Secret Agent, Pimp, or something crazy. If asked to list your salary, always choose the option that says I'd rather not say' (targets always think it's confidentially large than embarrasingly low).
2. Always, always, always add a photo.
If you do, you're guaranteed so much more attention from women. Put yourself in their uncomfortable high-heel and impractical shoes: would you want to see a guy whose appearance is unknown? Put your best photo online.
If you don't want to be seen online or are worried about getting spotted, try a photo of the back of your head, or something that shoes your body outline (if you're slim). In all photos, try and get one with other people surrounding you (social proof).
3. Keep some elements of your profile deliberately vague
Why list your religion, drinking habits, desire to have children or living status when you know that people can use these attributes to narrow their searches? Keep your profile as wide-reaching as possible without sacrificing your USP (unique selling point).
4. Photos
The same rules for photos apply online as in real life - upload photos to your site that show off the aspects of your character you want to reveal. Good ones include exotic holidays, photos surrounded by lots of friends, party photos...etc. For dating sites, I would go one further and add an intimate photo of you (not with a woman) perhaps in an intimate restaurant, candlelit etc. Show your softer side as a masquerade.
Some site-specific guidelines:
1. Facebook groups
If you have a wingman in real life, use him online. It surprises me how many people target the online dating sites on their own. Pool resources and set up facebook appreciation groups for each other. It's an extension of social proof: create your own network of friends and build 'The Damage Appreciation Society' or whatever your name is. People visiting online networking sites will always want to be with the guy who has a large group of friends. You're cool, so show it.
Alternatively, vary this theme a little and call your group something loaded: 'Join this group if you've pulled Damage' (obviously, don't get your wingmen to join this group: try and build up online pivots!), 'Damage's groupies' etc. You can think of better names than I can.
2. Facebook photos and friends
On facebook, other people can include their photos of you on your profile, but you have to approve them first. Try and be selective with your friends, since visitors to your profile will invariably browse them. If all of your friends are male computer scientists with monobrows and dribble on their chin, don't expect too much interest.
The basics of an online approach
Online, every word counts - and words can be viewed or read with different means by different people. For this reason, you need to be reasonably careful what you say.
I've found that coming up with an abstract question is the best way forward, just like real-life.
Last night, I experimented on facebook. I sent a message to every 7 or above who was online at the time. Here is the text:
---
Hey! (be direct, and confident)
I need your advice (don't give them a chance to refuse)
Tucked or untucked? (is ambigious, but has a slight sexual double-meaning)
D.
---
The purpose of this message was to make the targets think, confuse them a little and also to ensure that their replies were varied enough to establish which ones weren't worth the effort and which ones were.
I sent 100 messages to 100 users, 80 of which replied within 10 hours.
Replies will fall into the following categories:
"What? W

• hat are we talking about?" - the target is a thick shit, unadventurous and can't think laterally. Bin them.
• "Depends what you're talking about" - the target is more reserved and will be a bit more hard work
• "Untucked/Tucked in, definitely" - You're in, and the target is open for your response
• "Definitely untucked, untucked looks cool, tight etc..." - You're in, and your target is game.

If they write too much I believe it suggests they are slightly too proficient in the online community and are thus less likely to make the transition from chatting online to meeting in person. In my view, the best category of response is the third: the target is curious, open for more but is still grounded in real-life.
If they gave the first response, I don't follow it up.
If they gave the second response, I use something along the following lines:
'What did you think I was talking about?!' - ever so slight neg, make her think she was loading her reply with a sexual innuendo and thus misinterpreting what you said. Always add the '?!' on the end to convey the fact you're not being entirely serious. Start playing with her.
The third response is my favourite. I always follow it up with:
"Untucked/Tucked in? Outrageous! Let's hope I never have to rely on you for fashion advice!...so, what do you do?"
This is a perfect neg to use and really gets them thinking. The final question always prompts them into trying to seek reapproval from you, having received the put-down from you'
If they come back with the fourth situation, this is a chance for you to get them to sell themselves to you:
"Really? So what makes you qualified to give fashion advice?! "
Add the wink "" to make her realise you're playing with her.
From then on, you should be in. Escalate the conversation using traditional MM - if you've executed the openers correctly then you'll have set the social dynamics for the conversation perfectly: you will be the one who she must impress. You will hold the power and she will be the one seeking approval. Use this to your advantage.
General follow-up comments:

• Never add a kiss "x" to your messages. Supplication is bad.
• Try to remain mysterious and let the females ask the questions.

Closing
The time-constraints used in real-life MM can be used really effectively online. Always suggest to your conversation partner that you're very busy (because you have a hi-powered job, lots of friends, lots of dates - it doesn't matter) and so you don't spend much time online. If you're always online then women will think you're desperate. Push and pull - it works well.
When it comes to closing, I prefer this:
"I've got to disappear now, but we should definitely continue this. I'm not sure when I'll next be online. What's your #?"
From the 100 approaches I made online, I # closed 54 of them, MSN closed 87 of them and receives offers to meet for over 30. 2 asked for sex, but in honesty that wasn't because I played the game well - rather, they were already after that in the first place.
Final comments:
From my experience working in the world of online dating:
There are always pretty girls on sites, but they're just hard to find.
Don't rule out a girl because she doesn't have a photo, but always get a photo before you meet someone (unless you just want to practice).
Some definitions women will use online, and their translations:

• 'bubbly' - fat
• 'curvacious' - fat
• 'cuddly' - fat
• 'larger than life' - fat
• 'BBW' - very fat
• 'my friends say I'm attractive' - unattractive. You're friends would say that, otherwise they're bad friends'
• 'I'm not bad looking' - I'm average
• 'english rose' - plain
• 'i like romantic evenings in' - slightly needy
• 'not looking for sex' - looking for sex but trying to justify herself
• Any kind of pre-introduction, i.e. 'So, about me', 'a bit about me', 'what I'm looking for' - slightly insecure
• 'Message me' - Don't message her. She's overselling herself.

I think that's about it. It'd be interested to hear other's experiences of various sites and the techniques/openers they've been using - also people's views on using wingmen online.
I hope this is of interest.
Damage.

[Damage]

'What do you wanna know' is a difficult response, but use it to your advantage: you've still partially opened! Follow it up.
To be honest, I tend to use the 'tucked/untucked' line online, rather than in real-life. If you don't deliver it with confidence, or if you muffle your voice, then you'll get people asking for clarification. If you approach strongly, speak loudly and slowly and directly, then you shouldn't have the 'what do you wanna know' response.
The way I see it, if someone comes up with the 1st response in my list (i.e. 'what are you talking about? Dunno! Huh? What? Excuse me?) then they're probably too dumb, boring or creative to be worth targeting. At least that's how I view it. Screw them. Or rather, don't screw them.

[Damage]

The @ close should be really easy. If you're struggling with it, then if you don't have any problems doing so, why not post a few transcripts on here for us to look at? I'm sure we can provide some pointers.
My typical approach to @ and # closing is to start with your general opener, then build up with some virtual 'palmistry' - typically I use the colour test:
"Did you know, that if you ask someone to pick five colours at random, you can tell so much about that person from the order in which those colours are picked?"
Then you get them to pick five colours at random. From this, you fabricate an 'interpretation' of them by looking at the person's online profile and basically feeding all their own information back to them, paraphrased. Typically, I use the following responses to the following colours:
Red: person has flare
Yellow: person is creative
Black: person has insecurities
Blue: Person is looking for something but doesn't know what
If someone picks white/black/silver/gold then I follow up with a neg and tell them that these aren't colours.
Provided you've read the person's profile properly, you should have no problem in giving a reading that is 'scarily accurate'. And immediately you will demonstrate DHV because you'll have connected with the girl more than other guys on there.
From this, fluff talk and more DHV. You've shown that you're different, so now work on your comfort.
After about 8 - 10 messages, you're ready to @ close. Just use the following line:
"Hey, I've got to get going now as [insert reason why you have to go - but use it for DHV] but we should definitely continue this. Do you have MSN?"
100% of the time they will give you their MSN (or if not, their other email address).
To # close, never ask for their number. Instead, I just tend to give mine: I don't think it looks so needy on the internet and also it helps reassure them that you're not a nutjob. If you give yours, 95% of people will give theirs back.
There you have your # close.
If you're still having difficulties, I'd be keen to see some of your transcripts to try and see where things are going astray. I'll try and post a few of mine online later to show you how I've approached things previously: and what things have/haven't worked.
Good luck!

[Damage]

Ok, I put my hands up...you do seem to have picked an odd one here.
First thing: get your neg in. This girl clearly believes she is above her station and needs her self-valuation reduced.
Given that (in my opinion) your opening comments seemed overly-keen towards her, I would add an online time constraint too:
"Hey, I can't spend too much time on here as I have to fly out to London this week for work, but we'll chat another time I'm sure.
I like your photo by the way - the 'straight out of bed' look really suits you hair!
so, what do you do?"
Clearly paraphrase this to suit your own linguistic style, but I'd basically stop playing up to her and show sudden disinterest.
It's difficult because you started from a very dangerous position of her holding the upper hand on you (her first response was really unusual). Suddenly negging her may alienate her completely in this situation.
Without meaning to pry, does plentyoffish.com ask you to create a profile to accompany your messaging? Given the hostility of her first reply, I'd be interested to see what your profile says and the state of the picture, since that may have been the trigger for her negativity in the first instance.
In some of your replies, the follow-up was really weak. I'd whack your neg in here:
"Untucked? Outrageous! Remind me never to ask you for fashion tips...!
So, what qualifies YOU to be a fashion guru?"
On a few occasions, you're opener has worked but you've failed to capitalise on it. I stand by the neg though in these situations: if executed with a clear tongue-in-cheek tone it'll work well with the playful respondees; if executed seriously, it'll work well with the ego-inflated targets.

[Damage]

Sorry - I just re-read the last line of your post. My response would be:
'So who says I have to be given the chance? What if I just take it?
You're bossy, aren't you!!'
or something like that.

[Samson]

Do you think online is better for meeting or comfort building after meeting to timebridge, personally I think gaming in reality is the only way to push your skills

[Damage]

I think it can be used with effect in both situations, though I find the danger in using it as a timebridge is that since you would already have met online, it places distance between you (i.e. it moves the discourse from reality to virtual world) so can act to turn a potential lay into ljbf territory.
Personally, I use online game to open targets, secure face-to-face asap then game in person as normal as soon as possible. Once I've met someone, I never return to online. It also suggests slight desperation...I've just met someone, so why would anyone other than a player need to return online?
Any other questions, I'll be happy to post on the main thread.
Damage.

[Kelemvor]

Originally Posted by The Cooler King

hmm, There is no one near me with this this plentyoffish site.
But I made a profile.
Let me know what you think.
There's really not a lot of fish.
As for facebook I had bad experences with it. Its as if people are sketched out by it since it asks for so much info. Yet I dont get it, they put on as much info as they want.
Thing is I'm not sure if people respond better to comments on walls or to messages. This could go for myspace too.
Speaking of myspace...
I've been wanting to pimp out my myspace too.
Havent really had time to get around to it. And I'm not sure what to do.
Like should I get crazy moving .gifs, and add a nice backround?
Does it really matter if it looks like you time into your profile?
Here is my myspace even tho its not much.
But its not too bad.
I want to work on it more to get more hits and better responses.
I just came across Adult friend finder.
Check it out and tell me how I did.
Dont worry I dont do nude shots so its safe.
Male nudes are just wrong....Dont worry it's safe.
Thank you!
^__^

This is something I've spent a lot of time on.
Biggest change for your first ad (plentfish) would be the pic.
Most girls will complain if you don't read their profile, but few will read yours. The pic is the first thing they will see.
After many trials, I found a good combination of:
1) smart peacocking, 2) money setting, 3) cool activity, 4) well taken photo
to be the biggest contributors to my success.

[Alpha Electro]

My experience with networking sites is that you need have a few of your real life friends to be on such sites so that you can fill up your "Friends" list and the more friends you have on your list, the better your chances become for people to post comments and/or send you messages. When you have zero or less than five friends on your page, it looks pretty empty and girls tend to think you are either new, and thus not want to talk to you cause you might not know what to do on the site, and that you might not be a very social person and they feel like you are a loner, which doesn't get you any comments and messages either.
The second thing is that you must have a picture of yourself, a quality picture - not those dark and blurry webcam pictures. So even if you don't have one, go out one day, take your camera or borrow your friends', and take a couple of pictures of yourself doing something interesting (skateboarding, playing basketball, in front of a statue, etc.)
Damage - may I ask you which online dating site are you the founder of?

[Damage]

Sorry for the delay in replies - things have been busy.
To cover a few points:
To be successful online you need a strong frame in real life. You must have at least a grasp of what makes a good photo, how to dress and how to maximise your appearance if you're unattractive. An attractive image will win you approaches. A bad photo will put HBs off.
You don't need to peacock online, but a quirky image works well.
DHV is king online. Every photo should add value, but you must be careful not to look as though you trying too hard. In the atmosphere of a bar or club, a girl will be interested in your peacocking if done correctly. Online, they have more time to analyse you objectively - the parallel I use is that online a girl has the opportunity to study you as if she were standing two feet away in a bar, but you can't see her. If she thinks your photo smacks of arrogance or desperation, you'll lose the best targets. To that extent:
- absolutely never should you put photos up of you with your shirt off: it looks really pathetic, although most guys think it looks great
- include photos with lots of friends, but not lots of women
Someone asked which online website I founded. Unfortunately, I can't be too specific as I don't really want my identity to be traced. All I can say is that it's a dating site focussed on university students in the UK. It has several thousands members, though for obvious reasons the age range is from 17 to 25 on average.
I have been really busy with work recently so haven't been able to devote as much time to sarging as I would have liked. I was set a challenge to sarge a series of targets online by Arakrazy and I haven't even had time to begin. I will though, and the transcripts will appear here first.
Facebook is not ideal for sarging as it's more a website to allow members to generate faux-DHV with no real aptitude for meeting people. If you work out how to crack it to your advantage, then post here. Use the poke function to yield results.
I would recommend sites such as faceparty or plentyoffish or even MySpace.
Damage.