How to get out of the friend zone

[LtCmdrPonji]

Any tips for moving out of this zone?

[Braddock]

Start with this, but realize this alone won't guarantee anything.......

Spend less time with her for a while. Allow her brain to lose some of the associations she has toward you.

When you do spend time with her start slowly treating her different. I don't know how you act around her, but don't laugh at what she says unless it's truely funny. Don't play therapist. If she talks to you about other guys, listen only mockingly. Make fun of her plight and never feel sorry for her on this kind of shit. Don't be a shoulder to cry on.

Do's

After you have spent some time away from her come back and change the frame. You must realize that you can't go at her afraid to lose. If you push the envelope with her you are running the risk of losing her for good. If you can't handle that, then just stay in friend mode. At least she'll be around??? FUCK THAT!!! Slowly go for it, but be willing to lose this girl. You obviously like her, so go for it. Win her? Great! She says no thanks? Fine, get away from her so she can't effect you emotionally, but at least you can feel better inside knowing you took your best shot. Then move on.

Do talk to other girls while trying to get out of friend mode. Don't set out to make her jealous, you are most likely not calibrated to do that without her knowing what you are trying to do. Just go game other girls and get more women in your life. Practice staying out of friend mode with new girls. See if this is an isolated situation or see if this is a reocurring theme.

As you get better you will fall into friend mode less and less. Now if I make a friend that's a girl, it's strategic. Pivot, fat girl with tons of hot friends, girl that I think is cool, but not attracted to. If I want a girl she may or may not date me, but she will not slot me in friend mode.

The reason you need to get away from her for a while is because it's hard to change the frame from friend to sexual. It's going backwards. To try and physically escalate her at this point will feel wierd to you and her. Time away will help remedy this, but may not change it. You seeing her after time has passed allows you to do several things. Next time you see her you can send mixed signals and set a new tone for kino escalation. The always there for her "buddy" is no more. You need to reemerge as a sexual guy who wants her, but doesn't need her. You want her in a way that does not include shopping or hearing about her boy problems. If she doesn't want you in the same way, then you have no use for her.

You won't actually say the words from above, you will convey them. But, if you try to do that tomorrow without time passing, you will just look like you are trying to do something. Being reactive is not attractive.


Soooo.....

Braddock's short term perscription:

Get the fuck away from her for a while. Don't avoid her, but make yourself scarce, even if your dying to see her. Fuck that. Think long term not short term.

Go get a few other women in your life. Spend more and more time thinking about other girls and less putting this girl on a pedestal in your mind.

Come back in a few months with a different frame in mind. You are going to read magic bullets if you haven't and start all over with this girl. No, you won't run an opener, but you will start alllll over in attraction and run all the phases propperly this time. Usually when a guy falls into friend mode he started off in comfort instead of attraction and/or he didn't escalate kino at all. You don't have to escalate hard and fast, but you must kino or it's off to the friend zone.

Becoming a more attractive guy overall and needing her less and less will help you become more attractive to her. Stop trying to be the perfect guy for "her." Fuck the "how can I get her" mentality. Think I want to become more attractive to women in general.

Hope this helps. I think this will work its self out over time if you stick with learning all of this stuff. Realize there is no quick fix or line for your situation and eventually you are going to have to do what I said above and then come back and pull the fucking trigger and realize and be ok with the idea that you may lose her for good. But if you say, "I can't risk that." Just realize that you have already lost her to some other guy, she just hasn't found him yet. When she does, he will expect her to remove you more and more as her friend and you won't want to be there to watch her happily with Mr. Right anyway. So, take some time away and then come back and pull the trigger!!!!

You can do it man! Good luck.

Braddock

This is the definitive work on pickup and dating theory, written by an acknowledged master of the game - a guy who’s TRAINED many of the new “gurus” on the scene!

[_Cane_]

Congratulations! You just got some silver platter advice from Braddock.. so listen to him and don't take it forgranted!!!

I went through this (kind of) recently. My situation wasn't exactly an LJBF but its all related.

Eliminate Contact For A Few Weeks

Remove yourself from her for a while like Braddock said. When you come back to her it is important that you reverse the frame on her within the first few times you see her. Don't set a sexual frame at all, it will be unknown to her and she probably won't expect one of her "friends" to act like that. It will "shock/surprise" her. And you don't want that in this case. With a random sexual frame, she will react as being uncomfortable and it will be awkward.

Reverse The Frame

When I say reverse the frame, I mean to reverse it by carefully making it seem like she is the one who is wants you. This is one of the few situations where I would definitely disqualify her at an opportune time.

For example, since you are friends, it's likely she will say something positive about you at some point. Especially if you haven't seen her for a while. Such as "I missed you!" Just say things like "oh geez, don't be clingy, you know I'm too good for you anyways..". But say it in a VERY jokingly way. Give her a gay little shuv even just for good measure. Make sure your smiling and she knows your just teasing. This should be done less cocky and more funny.

Out Of The Friendzone, Into The "Flirty Zone"

When you say these kinds of things every now and then, it will adjust your friendship into a flirty sort of one. This is how you eventually will get your opportunity to move from flirty to sexual. But once your LJBF'd, you cannot achieve the perception of a potential suitor until you cross into the "flirty zone". Once you achieve a flirtacious friendship, then you can advance it to flirting + light kino. See below for kino tactics. Flirting with her should start from the minute that you see her after your little two or three week "break".

At first, it will be you flirting with her, keep it sarchastic and funny. Eventually, you should start to see her initiate flirtyness more often when you see her. The more often she gets flirty with you, the more closer you are to being able to move to the next step of getting out of LJBF.

Proper Kino Escalation In A LJBF Situation

Initial Kino should be punches in the arm, butt bumps, and lame gay shit like that cuz it is non-threatening. Speaking of your kino task. You should escalate in this order:

1) nudging/arm punching/butt bumps when joking with each other

2) Sitting closer together (if your on a couch, see if she lets you lay your head in her lap as if you were tired and falling asleep, lay your head on her lap with your back to her -- its less threatening)

3) Put your arm around her neck while your walking&talking. Do this only for like 10-15 seconds or so, MAX, then release her. Keep doing this every so often until she responds by wrapping her arms around your waist. Until she wraps around your waist, do not move foward to the next kino step.

4) When your walking with your arms around each other each other (above), let go and grab her hand. Then walk while holding hands for a minute or two and then let go.

Act like this is all happenning naturally. It is important that you release her before she has the option to push you away.

5) If you got away with holding hands, you can get away with kissing her. Don't kiss her the first time you hold hands.

6) To kiss her: Wait until the 2nd time you hold hands (while walking&talking) and when you stop walking, so will she. Turn your shoulders towards her to face her slowly and closely. Lean in and kiss her. Don't lean in too much tho.

These 6 kino steps should be a slow process that may take place over a few different days with her. Seperate each kino step by atleast 1-2 hours. Calibration is very important. If you go to much too fast? You blew it.

You should never discuss "Dating" with her or say anything that implies that you want to date her. If you ask her out, tell her you want to "spend the day with her". And take her out and just chill with her, tease her, kino escalate, release. Your going to be doing A LOT of Bait Hook Reel Release.

100% maintain the idea that you didn't expect this to happen bla bla bla

and thats "Get out of the LJBF Zone 101"... folks

[Taylor Noble]

bjswift,

Great post. If anything can flip the situation this is it.

I would add only one thing. Try running a jealousy plotline in conjunction with your "freeze out" if you can. If your LJBF sees you being all alpha and having fun with another HB it will really get things going. This has worked for me several times.

[Conna]

Awesome posts Braddock and bjswift, I can definitely see how these would work. But here's my situation: I'm kind of in the LJBF zone with this girl, but she's always touchy feely with me, hugging, lap sitting etc, more so I think than with other guys from my/our social circle. I haven't gotten the LJBF speech since I never attempted to close her. However my question is: how do I pull off comfort properly, when we already know each other and I can't use a lot of screening/qualification techniques I would with a girl I cold approached?

For the jealousy plotline, lol I think she tried to pull one on me earlier as we were clubbing one time and a guy came up to her on the dance floor and within three minutes they were making out and proceeded to do so for the rest of the night. I went all AFC and told her how much I love her and need her and want her... not! I had a good time instead with other people and teased her later about being drunk and easy. Am I overthinking this? God, it's starting to sound like oneitis...

[_Cane_]

Originally Posted by Conna

Awesome posts Braddock and bjswift, I can definitely see how these would work. But here's my situation: I'm kind of in the LJBF zone with this girl, but she's always touchy feely with me, hugging, lap sitting etc, more so I think than with other guys from my/our social circle. I haven't gotten the LJBF speech since I never attempted to close her. However my question is: how do I pull off comfort properly, when we already know each other and I can't use a lot of screening/qualification techniques I would with a girl I cold approached?

For the jealousy plotline, lol I think she tried to pull one on me earlier as we were clubbing one time and a guy came up to her on the dance floor and within three minutes they were making out and proceeded to do so for the rest of the night. I went all AFC and told her how much I love her and need her and want her... not! I had a good time instead with other people and teased her later about being drunk and easy. Am I overthinking this? God, it's starting to sound like oneitis...

I'd be happy to speculate, just remember to take it with a grain of salt. It impossible for us to calibrate to your exact situation cuz we aren't part of it so take advice very generally.

#1, I don't know how you are with each other, but your club example I think is a little off. Most likely, she wanted to make out with THAT guy, so she did. Assuming it was to make you jealous is probably inaccurate. Thats just you rationalizing with yourself that she indeed wants you, cuz thats what you want to believe. Your just trying to make yourself feel better. In reality, it probably had nothing to do with you.

#2, I know a couple of girls who are the extreme of flirty and do stuff like you describe (lap sitting, hugging, etc..). One of these girls I know is SUPER hot. Probably the hottest girl I know. And EVERY guy I know claims that he could pull her, because she is so flirty with him. The reality? All of them have tried, all of them have failed (except one who LTR'd her first before f-closing).

The good news is, your already in the flirty zone! The problem is, that doesn't make you special. She probably flirts with MOST guys. So that is what makes your situation a little different. I think you should still run attraction stuff while your in comfort with her.

If I were you, I would ditch her for 2 weeks. When you see her again and she gets flirty with you, let her, but release her before she releases herself.

Example:

Next time she hops onto your lap... Act normal as if your not surprised a girl is on your lap. Wait like 20 seconds, and stand up. She will obviously have to get off of you. Say something like, "this lap is reserved for royalty... *roll eyes* and/or strippers if its my birthday..". Then immediately walk away from her and go talk to other people.

She will be thinkin, WTF? where is he goin? Is he not interested in me? I was on his lap and he got up! WTF is goin on!?? Girls like this will feel validated everytime she gets flirty with a guy and has her way with him. They also are easy lays because all you have to do is make them think your not into it, but dont actually say that, show it. They make this job easy for you by being "guy-clingy". All you gotta do is act unaffected by her charms. She'll start trying harder and harder to get your attention. With this type of girl I would say don't worry too much about comfort. Run attraction/take-aways and escalate kino. You need to get a make out before you can go into comfort. Why? Cuz you need to establish yourself in her mind as not being just another guy to cock-tease. In comfort, unless your a super fun guy, she would likely get bored and want to get up and go tease more guys rather then talk for extended periods of time. Girls like this have short attention spans. Make statements to her that BOTH QUALIFY AND DISQUALIFY at the same time. Example below:

Caveman her. Open up an extreme sexual frame. When she gets flirty just say stuff like "your too much you know that? sometimes I wanna plant you into that wall and fuck your brains out, and sometimes I just wanna walk away and go make a sandwhich.." and then actually walk away and go talk to other people.

This kinda shit will make her grab your arm and be like "dont go!!"

You need to reverse the frame verbally so that you make it sound like she is chasing you. Then you just do cat-string theory and its all over for her "guy-clingy" ass.

Stop letting her cock-tease you and start teasing her with your cock. (im gonna make this my new signature.. )