Value Explained

[Psych_]

Been having this conversation a lot lately so I figured I'd finally wright my thoughts down.

One of the social laws is value for value.

Noone is offered value for nothing...we give value to recieve value. It goes back to the idea that pure altruism doesn't exist.

Now problems occur when this law is broken.

Most new guys will go into an interaction and try and take value from a person. This comes across as try hard or creepy and makes the other person uncomfortable. It's the most common mistake by far. The second person simply gives value continuously without getting any value back...we call this person the dancing monkey. For him the mere prescence of the person is valuable to him. The third type of guy gives value in every interaction and allows the other person to give value back through qualification, investment, and compliance. When he doesn't recieve these things he begins offering less value by removing his presence and shutting off...he knows the social law and stands by the idea of value for value.

Surprisingly the difference between the 3 people isn't so much what's on the outside but more by their frame of mind. If you feel you are taking value then you are, if you feel you are giving value non stop you are, and if you feel you are giving value for equal value back then you are. The way you feel inside will present itself outside.

Now with Mehow's microloop theory he breaks it down into offering value to a woman through attention validation while recieving value from a woman through physical validation. Basically complimenting her while at the same time kino escalating...value for value.

Many new guys have a hard grasp on this though because they don't FEEL high value and therefor don't believe they have any real value to give. Well what are types of value?

Money, presence, a skillset (such as PU), sex, drugs, social connections or hook ups, or even positive emotions. There's tons of answers to this. Basically what it comes down to is value isn't value when it's not valuable.

Who decides what's valuable? The person you are interacting with. This brings us to the second law of value. It's dependant on the person you are interacting with. Therefore we must elicit their values and then demonstrate it.

Everyone no matter who they are values positive emotions. We all want to feel good and be happy. Almost everything in PU is learning how to pump the girl with these positive emotions therefore generating value to her and from that attraction. However other then this, value is very person dependant.

If I'm gaming a crack head I can easily elicit her values. She values crack. If I'm gaming a party chick I can elicit her values being fun nightlife and social connections. It also works for guys to. If I see a big muscle guy I can easily elicit that he values working out and being strong. Once the values are elicited I can then demonstrate the value they seek...once I know what it is it's much easier.

Often it's harder to tell what a person truly values and you might need to interact for a while, demonstrating value in the form of positive emotions before you can truly sense what it is. This is how all truly great seducers operate...the epitome of this being Cassanova.

Does the girl seek adventure that only you can offer, does she require someone who will truly listen to her, has she been a prude all her life and craves a crazy sexual experience, does she value learning new things about herself and life, does she currently value the idea of a bf or ONS or FB, maybe she values a guy who is sweet and sensitive because she's been hurt many times recently or a tough and brash guy because all she's encountered so far are wussy men. These are the things to find out.

Now many would say that we shouldn't react to their values...we have OUR values and we simply bring them into ours. This is true and essential...again value for value. Just as we provide them the value they seek so to must they provide the value we seek. However we don't have to change who we are to elicit certain values from a girl and then provide them. The most common mistake with community guys is that they tend to become very one dimensional...they are always the same way with no real depth to them. They utter the same cocky funny lines all the time and are incredibly predictable. To truly "be yourself" accept all the different sides of yourself.

Everyone reading this knows I love the nightlife and am passionate in PU. However I also enjoy movie nights and reading books. I'm also a big dork who enjoys sci fi and fantasy. I can be sweet or dorky or a d**k or cool as hell. I have different sides to me and different interests. When I meet someone I figure out what their reality is and what side they value the most and if it's a side that is part of me I then demonstrate that side of me. Then the person knows I'm someone they can relate to and is part of their reality...once that happens I then lead and bring them into my reality. If they value something that isn't really a side of me I can do two things. Either walk away or be open minded and allow them to bring me into their reality and have them show me a new side. Being the teacher role generates a ton of attraction but at the same time allowing yourself to be the student also generates a bond with a person.

These principles are also just as true for men as for women. This is why my "respect from approval frame" is so effective at befriending guys in field. I elicit what they value and show respect for it while maintining an alpha role from an approval frame.

There's more I can write on value but I don't want this to long. If anyone has any questions relating to something here or anything on value I'll happily answer your question if I can.

[_8_]

What's interesting to note is that there are, in fact, two approaches towards "eliciting values and then demonstrating them"..

One, is the calculated, reactionary approach (which is the style of Casanova that you speak of), in which you discover your target's wants and desires, in order to present yourself as an answer to her prayers.

Ironically (or maybe, not so much ironically, but fittingly), this follows the Emotional Progression Model of Comfort before Seduction.. in which the comfort phase is used to gain rapport and, in the process, "discover" the psychological ammunition that is needed to weave yourself into a seductive presence that is tailored specifically to your target's desires.

For many on this forum, though, the comfort phase is entirely bypassed with quick escalating direct game that begins right in the Seduction phase... so it it really applicable to concern ourselves with Eliciting Values?

The other, more systematic, and modernistic approach towards "eliciting values and then demonstrating them", is to simply demonstrate the Universal Attraction Values...

These are more commonly referred to as Attraction Switches.

It's a far easier (though, not necessarily BETTER) process to seduce a girl by flipping universal attraction switches, than it is to discover her own unique switches... as in the majority of girls you meet, many of her individual turn-ons are included within our community list of Attraction Switches.

If you go the Attraction Switch route, eliciting her values is a step that can literally be SKIPPED entirely, as you can just work with a generic model of values and demonstrate them systematically..

Flipping Attraction Switches works like a fishnet cast out into the ocean, sweeping through large distances of water in order to "net" her attraction by sheer force.

Whereas Eliciting her Values then Demonstrating Them works like diving into the waters with a speargun to hit her values individually.

Just some thoughts I had that I thought would add to the discussion. Good post. Cheers.

[mindquicken]

Great post.

[trackfire]

I really appreciated this advice, and I know that this post is old.

I do have question: what does it mean to 'give' value and 'take' value? I understand somewhat the concept of extrapolating value (i.e. using someone's value and matching it), but I don't understand the former two concepts.

Thank you!

[jesseelite]

Well said, Psych!

[Psych_]

Originally Posted by trackfire

I really appreciated this advice, and I know that this post is old.

I do have question: what does it mean to 'give' value and 'take' value? I understand somewhat the concept of extrapolating value (i.e. using someone's value and matching it), but I don't understand the former two concepts.

Thank you!

When you give value you are adding something to the persons life that they want when you take value you are getting something from someone that you want. For example if I gave you $5 bucks cause I saw you didn't have money for lunch I'm giving value if I ask to borrow $5 I'm taking value.

If I'm having a kick ass party and bring a girl into it then I'm giving value, if I'm calling a girl up saying "hey what's going on tonight?" then I'm taking value. If you give value by proxy you must have higher value (since you have it to give and they want it lol).

This can be easily seen in a cold approach. Notice how much easier it is when you and your wing are having a blast and you bring a girl into your playful conversation as opposed to going into her conversation with her friend and talking about what they're talking about or some opinion opener. First example you give value and second example you take it.

However I've really begun to shy away from "value" game and I've actually been more successful then I've ever been lately. I don't really "DHV" anymore in the sense of stories and subcommunicating things about myself (unless it happens naturally or is nonverbal subcommunicating). I only focus on value in three aspects being social proof, preselection, and emotional value (or basically how much fun I'm having with the girl).

I might do DHV's unconciously without realizing it but it's not something I focus on though. It's more about the vibe, tension, and energy of the interaction these days.

With that said I still respect the two main laws of value...

1. Value for Value

2. Value is dependant on the person you interact with