Lifestyle of Seduction

[Hysteria]

Originally Posted by Vapor

BTW, the "why" of it is, because it is a DLV hobby. To get and keep the 10, you have to have your game thoroughly enough together that there is no room to have a lower value hobby occupying a prominent place in your life.
No, that's what you think I'm saying. If you love D&D, comic books, or Star Trek conventions, that is awesome. You can even be vaguely populer. You will also never have the highest quality girlfriends. Sorry.

How is any hobby a DLV? Anything that you're passionate about is attractive. It's what you love and what you go after. Some people are film geeks. Others are music nerds. Cedar likes Dungeons And Dragons.
Savoy talks about this on the Cliff's Convention 2005 DVD. Savoy is actually a huge enthusiast of board games and attends huge board game conventions each year. This hobby of his is even written on his www.MysteryMethod.com team bio. His women see that he is so passionate about them that it is attractive to them, even though it's just a game of backgammon.
Okay, maybe Savoy is the exception.

[sethtrump]

Thanks for the reply Vapor, and Hysteria thanks for the great example.
Vapor, I'm not really sure why you are so convinced that a guy who liked D&D, or any other geeky/unpopular hobby, will not be able to pick up and keep a true HB10. I doubt I can change your mind of that so I'll just give you my perspective on it...or rather expand on my perspective.
I think Hysteria did a great job of capturing what I was trying to say; being passionate about something is never a negative, unless the thing you are passionate about is a negative thing like stealing candy from babies In fact, in my experience women (of all sorts of different types, but I won't claim to be fucking 10's every day) always tend to use those sort of things in one of two ways: if they are attracted to you they think it is cute, or they love that you're passionate. in effect it increases the attraction, but at the very least it doesnt diminish it, however if they arent attracted to you they think it's a goofy hobby and it reinforces the lack of attraction, or at the very least does nothing to create attraction.
Take that as you will, but I'll just add again that I am talking about a case like Savoy (although likely with less skill/experience) where his hobby is not his identity, it's just a hobby. If a geeky hobby is your identity, then good luck, I wish them the best
s.

[Vincent Chase]

Originally Posted by Vapor

BTW, the "why" of it is, because it is a DLV hobby. To get and keep the 10, you have to have your game thoroughly enough together that there is no room to have a lower value hobby occupying a prominent place in your life.

No hobby is a DLV. I remember a post a while back about some guy that read comic books and I helped him create a DHV Routine and told he should leave them out in plain sight, it's when you HIDE or are embarrassed of your hobbies that they DO become a social leprosy.
When she's looking for a box of tissues and finds a bunch of comic books stored under your bathroom sink, that's fuckin' creepy. But if you've got a few out on your coffee table and some on bookshelves, that's fantastic. I'm excited about the new Ultimate Iron Man coming out, written by Orson Scott Card (one of my favorite authors) and inked by the guy that did Wolverine: Origins. I'm not going to hide it, i'm going to leave it on my bed side table.
Future pulls some of the hottest tail and the dude is quite possibly the geekiest of all the Instructors. He was telling a bunch of us how he was trying to figure out which PUA matched which Super Hero, someone jokingly said, "Style must be Superman." "NO! No, no, no. Style is Batman. He's gone through some of the most daunting trials and tribulations. Some of the public see him as a menace that does more harm than good, but EVERYONE underestimates him because he has no super powers. He's not whom you'd expect, it's so easy for him to come in under the radar and have dramatic battles and staggering victories."
I'm like, "Whoa, really put a lot of thought into this shit."
"Yes, I have."
If you have a hobby, be proud of it. Part of the alpha mode, part of self confidence is pride in all you do.
Cedar never said he stopped playing DnD or that it has any less prominence in his life. RUNNING the website however he did say. Do you have any idea that work that goes into maintaining a website? It was probably detracting from his life and impacting the way he wanted to live his life. I wouldn't be surprised if he wore a DnD shirt in field. Besides, the chicks that Cedar games would probably be into it. =]

No, that's what you think I'm saying. If you love D&D, comic books, or Star Trek conventions, that is awesome. You can even be vaguely populer. You will also never have the highest quality girlfriends. Sorry.

You've obviously never seen the chicks i've fucked.

Seriously, start thinking logically about this. The community is filled with a lot of former geeks and AFCs who really want to believe they can pull the SHB's without making serious changes in their lives. They ignore the fact that none of them are actually doing it. That is denial.

You're in denial. Social dynamics, SEDUCTION, is played in interaction, not in personal passions. Don't kid yourself, Your can be as nerdy or as suave as you want to be. Self perception is quite possibly the only limiting factor. If you believe that you're a nerdy trekkie that never gets laid, instead of a the fuckin' "Fonz" who happens to love Star Trek, instead of the god-damned Casanova at the ComicCon, INSTEAD of thinking of yourself as the Astaire, the Bogart, the fuckin' Man-of-Love, THE GOD DAMNED SEX MACHINE THAT YOU ARE, whom just so happens to be strolling around E3 and has the utmost, intense love for both women and video games. If you think of yourself as that instead of those, YOU WILL be that instead of those.
Break the membrane that's covering your vision, that's clouding your eyes. Vapor doll, Scooby baby, y'all are in denial. One big denial, and this is the denial twist.

[Scooby]

Look guys, im not going to get into who is right and wrong - it all comes down to peoples subjective opinions in the end and people theorising (is that a word?? )
This can be overanalysed to death, but my simple opinion is that nerds dont consistantly get hot chicks - im talking about normal people here - obviously it doesnt apply to filthy rich guys or someone who has become famous.
If they want consistant 10's they have to change their lifestyle - and this means ditching the majority of nerdy pursuits. Look guys its ok to have hobbies, we all have hobbies, and its fine to have one or two hobbies that arent cool, but overall their life has to reflect something that has the nerdy stuff as a small minority. Sure they might be able to get lucky, but they cant fake it in the long term - the way you lead your life has to change - isnt that what weve all done since joining the community.
Just my thoughts, so lets not get too excited about being in "denial".

[Vapor]

My last on this. Good discussion.

Originally Posted by Hysteria

How is any hobby a DLV? Anything that you're passionate about is attractive.

Why? Interesting maybe, but attractive? I don't remember the list of MM DHV qualities, but they include pre-selection, leader of men, & protector of loved ones. Some hobbies suggest those, others suggest the opposite.
Guys, if anything you were passionate was attractive, you would see expressing that as a priority in the attraction phase of seduction models, across the board. You don't. Have the MPUA's missed something you guys haven't? Why did Mystery told software engineers at Project SF to quit their jobs if they want the hottest women?

Originally Posted by VC

You've obviously never seen the chicks i've fucked....Vapor doll, Scooby baby, y'all are in denial.

Denial is rejecting a position in the presence of substantial evidence to the contrary. You aren't providing any.
If you're in a room, and one half of the group has trekkies, comic book guys, and RPG'ers, and the other half has musicians, athletes, and artists, who are the hot women hanging out with? If the trekkies are really, really passionate, does that change anything? Nope, that may even work against you (You might get away with being a casual trekkie, but not a fanatic). in real life I sure see a lot of the first group dating ugs and the second group dating hotties.
This isn't about the 1:1,000,000,000 exception. This is about:

Originally Posted by Cedar

Find the girls you gravitate towards. Learn what you can of their lives. But do not think of them as indivuals. Think of them as trends. Looks for patterns in these girls. Their age. Where they live. Where they work. Where they hang out.

Who they have relationships with. Who those guys are.
Best of luck to all.

[Starman]

Interesting discussion, and I'm sorry I missed it. I'm siding with Sovereign, Vincent Chase, Hysteria, etc. I've been reviewed positively in the same paragraph as Orson Scott Card, so my geek credentials are probably unsurpassed here. I know a HB9 former stripper with an amazing dragon tatoo that was as geeky as anyone here (I have the X-rated pics, but I won't send them to anyone, sorry Vapor), and had a recent unrequited bout of one-itis with a HB8 who might actually be geekier than me (although European -- I had to explain what "dork" meant and then she was like "Oh, yes, I'm a dork!").
A healthy person has passions and hobbies, but never lets them take control of their lives. No one is their job, and no one is their hobbies. Well, I am for the next few weeks because I have a deadline, but otherwise...
The problem I see in the geek/nerd/dork community is a lack of social skills and awareness. When you keep talking about your one single passion when the other person has become bored by the topic, and you don't notice, you have a problem. The solution is not to remove the passion from you life. It's to develop your social skills so that you can share that passion at the appropriate level, and no more, whatever that level is with that particular person. There are some HBs in that community, but I think that the generally low level of social skills among the males keeps the HBs away. The HBs with geeky inclinations are out there, but they just don't often hang out at the cons or the corner comic book store.
I'm reminded, sadly, of the movie "Can't Buy Me Love" where the kid uses his telescope money to buy social proof.
Still skeptical? Check out Neil Gaiman and his bevvy of HB groupies. Tori Amos puts in lyrics about him in her songs.
P.S. Posting since I want to easily find this later, too, as the initial post is very thoughtful and raises many points it seems most of us dwell on from time to time. Once you realize you can have the life you want, you have to figure out just what life that is, and that can be harder than developing the skills to take you there. "Know thyself" is great advice, but very challenging to follow.

[Eclectic]

Vapor are you talking about 10s solely on their looks, or 10s that are 10s on every level (looks, personality, emotional maturity etc etc). i.e the rare exceptional women? I get the feeling that we are overlooking this important point, and making too big an assumption. IF she is a 10 solely on looks, why would you want to keep her for longer than 4-6 weeks? She would only ever be a trophy. If she is a 10 on more levels than one, I think such a girl would have no serious hang ups about a mans geeky hobbies, so long as he had none himself.
GameBoy, I'd don't play poker, any chance you can (or anyone else) can elaborate?
I'd love to know what Cedar thinks on the matter, seeing as this discussion originated from his post, and I'd like to re-iterate that this is best of material, as it provides food for thought, and is a very healthy discussion.

[Vincent Chase]

Originally Posted by Vapor

If you're in a room, and one half of the group has trekkies, comic book guys, and RPG'ers, and the other half has musicians, athletes, and artists, who are the hot women hanging out with? If the trekkies are really, really passionate, does that change anything? Nope, that may even work against you (You might get away with being a casual trekkie, but not a fanatic). in real life I sure see a lot of the first group dating ugs and the second group dating hotties.

And if the Nerds are running Game and the athletes, musicians and artists aren't? I know 20 year old college football stars that are still virgins, I know guys in rock bands that don't get HALF the pussy Charge does and he just started gaming 3 months ago. Artists are almost as eclectic and nerdy as any Trekkie. You might not know it but Masters is a trekkie, from what I hear, the guy can pull.
I love you man, don't be delusional.
If you want me to post pics of my chicks I will, will that eliminate doubt? No people will ask, "How do I know you fucked 'em?" Then what? Post pictures, or better yet VIDS of me fucking them? I'd give you some phone numbers but I think y'all would understand if I don't want people calling up my girls and asking if I fucked them, so exactly what proof am I supposed to give. In fact why is there a burden of proof? Is this a court trial? SHould I have brought my briefcase to the proceedings? =]
I understand your opinions, understand mine. What the reality IS, is in fact a combination of both of our truths, end of story. Finito.
Agreed?
There are people without nerd/geek tendencies that pull and there are those with that do as well, the converse is also true. It isn't a matter of how many of each there are because in essence the numbers are most likely equal.
In any case, being a geek DOES NOT effect PU in any way, I've seen it, I've done it.

[Hypnovibe]

Allow me to weigh in on this discussion since its was too juicy not to and I feel the thread has gotten off track and into pointless debate. A woman is a free flowing energy that changes like the wind, like the curents of a sea or the rapids of a river. Her energy and state is forever changing and morphing depending on many things that man still cannot figure out. We all come here hoping for a magic pill, there is no magic pill. However there is a constant. A woman longs for that rock, that mass, that immovable strong object that is there like a rock for her. The man that can be everything she can never be. His energy is stable, powerful and strong. He knows what he wants and he stays on his path towards completion. I think in a way that is what Cedar is trying to say here. What he did was total committment to his cause and to what he really wanted in his life.
In the end what a woman wants is a man that knows what he wants and walks his own path. Sure certain woman are going to want a guy that is walking a different path then say some other man...but there is always a woman for every man that has a path and sticks to it. A man with a burning desire and a man who she can trust and feel safe with, because she knows that he will never sell out. SHe knows that while he may care about her she will never be his world, he has a higher purpose.
That being said, I used to be into PS2 and Warcraft stuff on the computer, never seemed to go over very well with the gf's.

[TigggR]

I think this has already been hit on in different terms in other posts, but I wanted to point it out plainly.
The talk of dropping nerdy pursuits, of making your life congruent... I'm sorry, but I have an issue with the framing of the discussion in these terms.
Who decided what was nerdy?
public opinion?
Some Chick?
Was it you?
By taking any aspect of your life and choosing to classify it by any designation not created by you, you have already lost an important mental battle. You are no longer a self defining man. You are instead defining yourself by the dictates of others.
For example, I love reading comics. I learned to read by my older brother reading to me out of spider man and the avengers. I still go to the comic book shop, and I prob drop around 60 bucks a month on different titles.
Now, I'm not gonna go to the bar in a spiderman mask.
But I'm not about to stop reading comics because some chick I'm talking to would be more interested in my knowledge of some random arbitrary topic that I picked because I thought a chick might think this is cool. She won't, because it's not you.
I have nerdy habits, but I am an individual, and I have alot of other interests that I can talk about at length, which might not be considered "nerdy."
Trying to be something your not, in my humble opinion, is the antithesis of what MM is really about at its core. Sure, you practice canned routines, but that's more for studying than anything else. Its like learning punch combinations from a better fighter, which will aid you in ultimately putting your own techniques together.
To make my point, let me point out something. I'm sure if I independently thought about the possibility of going to the bar in a top hat and goggles, I'd say, "Boy thats nerdy." But we all know that a certain someone did this at one point, and not only can he pull every hot piece of ass in a bar, he has us all sitting here trying to learn how to do it too. What might have before been considered "nerdy" or "out there" is now certifiably genius.
Follow M's example.
Define yourself.
"Dropping interests" is not authentic. You are apeing some other arbitrary idea of what is "Cool."
If you genuinely lose interest in something because it no longer satisfies you in the same ways, then fine, say that.
But don't just change to (gasp) make some chick think you are COOOL. In the words of my man Snoop, Don't be a trick.
Always be careful with this. Define yourself. This is how you become congruent.