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I've been noticing some patterns in ...
BoneDaddy's Mission - Notes From the Field
I've been noticing some patterns in my game lately. I'd be much obliged to any of you other mature PUAs who might be so kind as to offer your comments and analysis.
I'm going to post a series of FRs to give you all some insight.
In a nutshell, I'm having more interactions with younger, hotter women than ever. These girls are 15 to 20 years younger than I am and HB8 or better.
The issue is that while I seem to be generating attraction and interest, I'm not getting Day 2s or beyond. If it doesn't happen same night, it doesn't happen. I do get some same-night action, but it's not as consistent as I'd like.
I'm not interested in anything long-term with these girls, but I would like to improve my conversion ratio. I mainly want to get more efficient and turn more of these interactions into SNLs or Day 2s.
I'll keep all of this in this one thread both to make it easier to follow, as well as to keep it available for my own review and analysis.
Thanks in advance to all who choose to tune in and comment.
This is the first of several FRs that serve to illustrate the pattern I am observing as noted in my introductory post.
My objective is to find ways to push these interactions further and improve my conversion ratio.
A Typical Evening at the Bar
I decide to head out to one of my favorite venues. This particular venue is an upscale restaruant with a very active bar scene. As the hour of the evening grows later, the place morphs into more of a singles scene.
A bit about me: I'm 48, but don't look or act it. I'm very fit, much more so than many guys years my junior. I work out six days per week. I really have no clue how to rate my physical attractiveness. Perhaps I'll post a pic at some point and let you guys weigh in.
I dress elegantly casual. On this particular evening, I'm wearing Diesel jeans, a Dolce & Gabbana white shirt and Johnston & Murphy dress shoes. I never wear accessories and perhaps I need to address this. No watch, no rings, no necklace, no nothin.
I walk in and scan the bar for an empty chair. I spot an empty chair next to an attractive young lady. She was about an HB8 on my scale. I later learned that she was 28 years old and worked as a product marketing assistant at a local publishing firm.
I approach the chair without delay. Here we go:
Bone: Smiling warmly, Hey, is anyone sitting here?
HB8: No, its all yours
Bone: So how's your Thursday? Havin fun yet?
HB8: Oh, it was Ok...nothing special
She was receptive enough and engaged easily. We exchanged a few more pleasantries and I intentionally let the conversation die to see if she would re-initiate. After a minute or two,she reinitiates.
I initiated kino early on, just brief touches on her forearm or shoulder when I wanted to emphasize a point.
HB8: blah blah blah
Bone: Making good EC and triangular gazing
Bone: blah blah
Bone: You look like you've got something serious on your mind
HB8: Yeah, its work
Bone: What's up with work?
HB8: I just don't feel like my ideas are being taken seriously.
HB8: I think I have great ideas but I think because of my age, they aren't taken seriously.
Bone: Well, yeah that can be a problem. Its a pretty common frustration, especially early in your career. I remember feeling the same when I started my first job out of graduate school.
Bone: Now that I'm on the other side of the equation, I try to be sensitive to that when my people come to me with ideas.
I go on with this for a while and let the conversation die off again.
Sure enough, she reiniates.
HB8: Can I ask you a question?
Bone: Sure, go for it
HB8: Stammers and looks down
Bone: Oh, come on...this isn't that hard!
HB8: Well...I was wondering
Bone: Come on, out with it.. (said with a warm smile and kino)
She was clearly struggling with this. She wasn't drunk, but had a couple of glasses of wine.
HB8: Well, like I said, I was wondering....
Bone: Wondering what?
HB8: This is really hard. I shouldn't even ask this.
I'm really not exaggerating here. This is precisely how the conversation went.
Bone: Hey, you can't turn back now...ask!
HB8: Would you...do you think you would
Bone: Would I what??
HB8: Takes a deep breath
HB8: Do you think you would find a younger woman attractive??
I smiled and made EC, but paused for effect before answering
Bone: Well, I suppose I could find a younger woman attractive, but not simply because she was younger.
HB8: I...I really shouldn't have asked you that
Bone: Smiles and touching her hand
Bone: hey, its ok. I could tell that was difficult for you to ask. I'm impressed
We continued a bit more small talk, talked about what we each find attractive. I reached for her hand and gave it a squeeze and she didn't let go. We held hands for a minute or two.
I decided to seed the bounce to another venue just down the street.
Bone: Hey, there's a new place that's just opened up a block over. I've heard its really cool. I'm gonna check it out. You should come.
HB8: Where is it? What is it like
Bone: Its BarX. Its a Latin American themed place. I've heard they have an entire drink menu devoted to mojitos.
HB8: Yeah, that sounds good
Bone: I paid my tab, she paid hers. I stood and took her by the hand and left the bar.
HB8: Where are you parked?
Bone: Over near BarX
HB8: I'm right over here. You can ride with me
We walk toward her car. As we approach her car, I slip my arms around her and she reciprocates. We hug for a moment. I kiss her lightly and she doesn't resist. At some point, I handed her my phone and she put in her number.
We get in her car and drive toward BarX. She pulls over to a spot on the street.
Bone: Come on, lets go check this place out
HB8: I dunno...I have probably had enough - I gotta drive.
I could sense her BT dropping, but I had no clue why. We talked for a minute or two longer, but I could tell her mind was drifting elsewhere.
Bone: Hey, I've enjoyed meeting you. I probably should get going too. I'll call you tomorrow
HB8: Ok, drive safely.
I reached over and massaged the back of her neck for a minute and pulled her closer and kissed her goodnight.
I genuinely enjoyed the hour or so that I spent with HB8 and sensed that I really made a connection with her.
So, the next afternoon, I call her up. It was a good number, but she didn't answer. I left a message, told her again that I enjoyed our time together and told her to give me a call back.
No call back. I called her again a couple of days later. Same deal, Leave message, no call back.
After leaving two messages and no call back, I figure there's no point and delete her number from my phone.
So there you have it. A perfectly pleasant interaction, obviously she must have been attracted at some level.
I know there are unlimited reasons for her not calling back, and it may have nothing to do with me.....or maybe it does.
I have a few more of these to post. See if you can spot a pattern here. I'm reporting these as accurately as I possibly can, with no ego inflating embellishment
Last edited by BoneDaddy; 09-18-2008 at 05:32 PM.
Well, first, it's a pretty solid interaction, so that's good.
A couple things on the surface strike me.
One is that the heavy disclosure discussion isn't "bubbly fun times." She may have already been having buyer's remorse for having disclosed that...like she was embarassed (clearly she tends that way) for having dumped this on you and feels like she's better off putting that "mistake" she made in the past. It looks like you lightened things up, but perhaps when she was really struggling with telling you, it was time to say "hey, screw that, let's just drink and talk about the dumbass outfit that guy over there is wearing." Maybe it would come up again, maybe not.
Second, it's probably best to steer really clear of any kind of "advice giving" or "problem solving" answers to her career question. First, chicks don't want problem solving. The response they're programmed for is "ah, that must make you feel awful that your ideas aren't considered." Period. Second, but taking on the "advisor" role about "that happens early in your career" you did a couple things, including emphasizing your age difference and kind of took the "father" figure approach. You could have turned this funny too, with something like "well, are they dumbass ideas, because you know management doesn't like anything but dumbass ideas" with a big smile, or start teasing her to tell you her idea and make her laugh about the situation.
Her open question about whether you'd find a young girl attractive begs a bunch of teasing, cocky/funny and negs too. Stuff like "well you seem a little old for me" blah blah. Your emphasis on "could" was a start, but you could possibly have turned this way more high energy and fun.
Good luck with it. Hit some for me.
I mostly agree with Retired Young. And would add she sounds insecure, and probably needed to be reassured about her capacity to have a man.
In that case, I believe you k-closed too early. She did not invest enough in you to get what she was looking for. You should have let her qualify herself a bit more.
As for her not answering your calls, there may be 100 reasons. Forget her now. You had a nice evening and a K-close. You'll be better next time.
One more point: try to be less serious in your interractions: if she has problems at work, the highway to your bed is not keeping speaking seriously about that, but to distract her, make her have fun and forget everything but the good night she's having with you.
By the way, congratulation ! Your inner game is probably pretty strong. If not, you would not have reached that point. Try to be less serious and you'll be amazing.
retired_young & Eigerman,
Outstanding input. Thank you.
I think you are hitting some key points. I'm going to post a couple more of these and see if a trend reveals itself.
I think the age and experience worked to his advantage, but she got the remorse on the way to the other club. 28/48 difference isn't usually a big deal or unusual (it also depends on how old her dad is.) , if the guy is active, fit, self-assured and well-groomed he's usually going to blow everyone away. I'm curious to see what the other FRs are -
Good Morning Vietnam
Ok, here's another one.
So I'm up in Orlando one night with some time on my hands, and decide to head out to a few places and see what I could stir up. I find myself heading to a nightclub located within one of the hotels. Though this is a tourist area, this particular place is mostly a local hangout, especially on weekends. This was a Friday night I think. I've pulled from this place a few times, but the quality has always left a bit to be desired.
I walk inside and grab a spot at the bar near the dance floor. It’s almost midnight, but the place is kind of dead and I don't see anyone that interests me. I hang around for half an hour or so and decide to call it a night.
As I walk back to my car, I see two girls in their car parked right next to mine. One is standing outside the car talking on her cell phone. The other girl is sitting in the driver’s seat with her door open, searching for something in her purse.
Before we get into the interaction, I should tell you that girls occasionally open me. It certainly doesn't happen every time I go out, but it does happen. The result is that instead of going in high-energy and making something happen, I tend to act all cool and wait to see if they'll open me first. This is not in any way a good thing.
So instead of walking up confidently and opening, what do I do? I take a seat in my car, roll down the windows and pretend to take a phone call. After I'm done screwing with my phone, I look over at the girl sitting in her car. She smiles and I smile back.
HBTarget: hey, do you have a cigarette?
Bone: nope..not a smoker. What are you up to tonight?
HBTarget: blah blah
We go back and forth for a bit and I sense I might be able to make something happen here, so I get out and walk over to the other side of the car and continue the conversation. I notice that this girl is HOT. Easily an HB8. She’s a classy dresser also. Have I mentioned that I love Asian women? Turns out she and her friend are Vietnamese. It also turns out she’s a real estate agent. I own a handful of properties, so we talk a little shop during our interaction.
HBTarget: Are you sure you don't smoke?
Bone: Yep...I'm sure I'm sure, but hey...I'll bet the bar here is full of smokers. Let’s go inside and find one and I'll watch you beg
Bone: What's your name?
HBTarget: Hi, I'm HBTarget
Bone: To her friend - and who might you be?
HBFriend: Hi, I'm HBFriend
Bone: Nice to meet you both! I’m Bone.
Bone: Ladies, shall we?
The three of us head back inside, post up at the bar and order drinks. HBTarget accepted and returned kino easily. She touched me frequently as we talked and I did the same. I don’t remember the specific details of our conversation, but I do remember keeping it light, teasing her and making her laugh. I made sure to engage and build rapport with HBFriend also. I frequently engaged HBFriend in conversation and kino as well, but kept it less intense than with HBTarget. I’d say HBTarget was an HB8 and HBFriend was an HB7. I’d be happy with either one (or both!) but HBTarget was much more fun and playful. HBTarget was 36 and HBFriend was probably close to the same. Like most Asian women, they looked very young for their years.
HBTarget and I were seated side by side on bar stools with our backs to the bar, facing the dance floor. Our legs were touching and whenever I would speak to HBTarget, she would lean in close so that our heads were touching as I talked directly in her ear. It was a loud venue. I’d slip my arm around her waist occasionally, but only leave it there briefly. Once during a high point in our conversation, she was leaned toward me to hear and we were both laughing. I took this as an opportunity to kiss her lightly on her cheek or forehead, don’t remember which.
HBTarget: smiling – wow, you’re really forward, aren’t you?
Bone: yeah, I am. Smile+EC
We continued the playful banter and kino for maybe half an hour. Eventually another guy drifts over. He was an overweight player type with the Mr. T starter set. He engages HBTarget during a pause in our conversation. I shake his hand, slap him on the back, ask him if he’s having a good time, etc. I then pretty much ignore him and engage HBFriend. The guy keeps talking about his Mercedes Benz and invites us to ride with him to some other venue. The girls clearly aren’t interested, so I just let the guy ramble on. Eventually he leaves.
By now, HBTarget has bummed a cigarette from someone and excuses herself to step outside for a smoke. While she’s gone, HBFriend and I hang out, talk and make fun of the AFCs on death row. HBTarget stays gone much longer than it takes to smoke a cigarette, and HBFriend begins to wonder what’s up. HBFriend and I walk outside and find out that our player buddy has found HBTarget and has his arm around her talking endless nonsense.
HBFriend and I approach and watch for a minute. By now, I’ve had enough of this guy. I take HBTarget by the hand, drag her away and leave the guy standing there. I’ve got HBTarget on one side and HBFriend on the other. I slip an arm around each of them and they each put their arms around me and I lead them toward our cars.
We pause as we approach our cars and HBFriend wanders off to make a phone call and gives HBTarget and I some alone time. HBTarget and I talk for a bit and I now realize that they’ve each driven their own car. HBFriend is in her car and HBTarget and I are standing next to hers. Without my asking, she gives me her business card and says “call me.”
I’m a bit impatient with these types of situations and I know that I won’t be back in Orlando for a few weeks, so I feel the need to make something happen now. HBTarget and HBFriend both live about 40 minutes in the opposite direction of my hotel. I make some lame attempt to seed a bounce to another venue, but it’s getting close to 2:00 AM and both girls claim to have somewhere to be the following morning.
HBTarget begins to get antsy because HBFriend is waiting on her and HBTarget wants to follow HBFriend to make sure she gets home safely. So with a hug and a promise of a call, I bid HBTarget farewell.
They go their way and I go mine. As we’re driving, I dial up HBTarget’s cell phone number which was on her business card. She answers right away, and we chat for a good 10 minutes as we are driving. We laughed about the fun we’d had. I try one more time for a meet at another venue, breakfast, or whatever else I could think of. I’d had a few drinks, and while this wouldn’t quality as a drunk-dial, I think I probably came off needy. In retrospect, I think I also was a bit clingy in the parking lot as I tried to continue the conversation, tried to convince them to join me at another venue, etc when they were clearly ready to be on their way.
I called her the next day. She didn’t answer, so I left a voice mail. No call back. I waited a couple of days and called again. Once again, no answer, left message, no callback.
So there you have it. Clearly there must be attraction. She must have had interest, otherwise, why would she give me her business card before I even had a chance to ask for her number?
Alright….let me have it
Another Night at the Bars
This is another in a series of FRs where I am getting what appears to be strong interest from younger HBs, but I'm apparently blowing myself out toward the end of the interaction.
A couple of weeks ago, I'm in one of my regular venues, an upscale restaurant with an active bar scene. Its the same venue I mentioned in the previous FR. I think it was a Wednesday night and fairly slow. I know most of the staff there, so I'm fairly well proofed from that.
I'm dressed as usual, nice jeans, dress shoes, cool shirt, no accessories. As noted in my previous FR, I don't look like most guys my age. I'm fit, tanned, dress cool and do lots of active stuff like hitting the gym, biking, skiing, etc.
As I walk in, I see three HBs, HB7, HB8 & HB9 seated together in the middle of the bar. In typical Bonesque fashion, I take a seat near them, but not immediately next to any of them and wait...lol. I'm seated near HB9 with an empty chair between us. HB7 & HB8 are seated on the other side of HB9. Although age never came up (theirs or mine) these girls were probably early to mid-twenties. HB9 was working a couple of part-time jobs and also going to school
The bartender brings me a pint of my favorite hefeweizen and I squeeze an orange slice into the glass.
HB9: wow, that orange smells good all the way over here!
Bone: yeah, doesn't it? good stuff.
Bone: So what are you ladies out doing tonight?
HB9: Oh, just a girls night out.
I engage HB9 in light, mindless banter. Pretty soon I slide down a seat and am seated directly next to HB9. She's laughing and kinos me first. She touches my arm/shoulder and slaps my arm lightly when I tease her. She is definitely the alpha female of the group and is quite a handful. I try to calibrate by busting her balls every chance I get, pouring on the C&F with strong emphasis on the F.
HB9: Tell me your name?
HB9: Hi, I'm HB9
HB9: I bet you can't spell my name
Bone: I bet I can
HB9: Bet ya $50 you can't
Bone: Ok, you're on.
HB9: Here, try on my sunglasses - I wannt see what they look like you you
Bone: quizzical expression and puts on sunglasses
HB9: Oh no...that doesn't look good at all
Bone: laughing - yeah, your head has stretched them out too big for me
HB9: Ok…you never did try to spell me name. Try to spell it, I want my $50
Bone: Spells her name..and blows it….lol
HB9: Ok…pay up!
Bone: Well, you should know that I was betting virtual dollars.
HB9: What are virtual dollars?
Bone: blah blah…some BS
Bone: see, if I gave you $50, you’d just blow it at the bars.
HB9: laughs – yeah, you’re probably right about that.
Bone: Now that you have my virtual dollars, you’ll never technically be broke!
At some point, we both have our phones laying out on the bar. She’s messing with her phone and I make some comment about it. We BS about phones for a minute. I don’t remember how it came about, but she either asked for my number or put her number in my phone. One of us called the other and we have a stupid telephone conversation while seated next to each other at the bar. I don’t know if she really wanted my number or if she was just playing.
This goes on for a while and for whatever reason, I don't open HB7 and HB8. I hear them mention that they are heading off to BarX just down the street. I really didn't think much more about them, because in my mind at least, HB9 was waayy out of my league. She was smoking hot and dressed sharp. They get up to leave and I bid them farewell.
I sit and BS with the bartender while I finish my beer and roll out. It’s probably 10:00 PM by now and I’m not quite ready to call it a night. BarX is another place I’ve been going to more recently. It’s a country dive bar located in an upscale neighborhood and there’s always a crowd there, even on weeknights
I roll in and take a seat at the bar and order a beer. A couple of minutes later, I look over and see a professional acquaintance of mine. I don’t know him all that well, but he’s a really cool guy and we’ve seen each other out at the bars before. So he and I are laughing it up, high-fives, etc and generally throwing out a high-energy vibe.
To my surprise, we are suddenly surrounded by HB9, HB8 and HB7. HB9 throws her arms around me and then sits down at the bar stool right across from mine and her legs are pointed toward me, knees touching. HB9 and I engage in some pretty serious kino. HB7 and HB8 stand beside us. At that point, I get HB8 and HB7’s names and talk to them a bit. I realize that these are really cool girls and mentally kick myself for not having opened them earlier. All the while, my buddy is looking at me like…WTF? I suppose it’s not every day that a dude rolls into a bar and is swarmed by HBs…lucky me….lol
We all BS for a while and I introduce the HBs to my bud. After a while, the girls wander off to another part of the bar to play video games. I let them go and don’t chase or follow. I talk to my bud for a little while longer and then decide to stroll over and see what the girls are up to. When I arrive, the HB9 is engaged with the video game and a random guy is hovering beside her. I leave her be and go start chatting with HB7 and HB8. I turn up the kino on these two. Slipping an around one or the other and moving them from place to place. There are a few other random guys hovering in the area. Now these guys are typical 40s: balding, beer guts and wearing Dockers.
I leave the group and walk over to the other side of the room and lean back against the bar. Arms spread wide, taking up as much space as I can. I just casually kind of hang there and observe the room. Soon enough, HB9 comes over and slides up beside me. I put my arm around her and pull her close and she reciprocates. We BS’d some more, but I don’t recall the details. After a minute or two, she wanders away.
I’m still in my spot when one of the other guys comes over and says something that implies that the girls are all with me and I must have my hands full. I said “naw, man…I don’t even know them.” And smiled. He seemed to be impressed for some reason.
The three HBs appear to be preparing to leave. I ask them what’s next and they mention they were going to Bar Y. I think they are getting annoyed with the orbiters.
HB8 to HB9: What’s up with those guys? They were weird
HB9: Yeah, tell me about it
HB8: Puts her arm around me
HB8: You should be attracting guys like this (meaning me) not like those
I let them leave, but follow behind them shortly. (I know…LEAD don’t follow) As we depart, the three of them are walking ahead of me. They look back and wait for me to catch up.
HB7: Hey, he’s following us (with a smile) I ignore this.
HB9: Come on, go to Bar Y with us
Bone: Ok, lets go
I walked beside HB9 and our hands touch. We hold hands as we walk, fingers interlocked.
As we reach Bar Y, the group encounters a guy they know. He’s a typical college kid – seemed nice enough, but just one of the Polo shirt-wearing masses. Nothing special about him other than he and HB9 were obviously acquainted. I didn’t observe any kino between them.
At this point, I was about done and had enough drinks in me that I knew my game was going to suffer. As the girls waited in line to get their IDs checked, I gave HB9 a quick hug and walked away.
As soon as I get home, I sent HB9 a witty text, advising her to spend her virtual dollars wisely. No response. I did not try to call her the next day, nor have I tried to contact her since.
Thoughts? Am I getting real attraction here? These 20-something girls have very short attention spans, so it would seem that their interest must be genuine because they stayed engaged during the whole interaction.
Again, I'm grateful for your feedback and analysis.
Well, if you isolate the target after a while you might go a bit further. Kino is good, sometimes it's also good to kiss (not long, just for her to want more).
As for telephone game, there might be some progress to do. It is not normal to have the right numbers and her not to answer. You might try to text them in 2-3 weeks, things like:
- "I guess I should erase your number from my phone, shouldn't I ?"
- "You were great yesterday. Hopefully your boss won't hear what happened" if she answers, just say "Oh, you received that message, it was intended to another HBTarget, how are you BTW?"
Just my 2 cents.