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Discuss Understanding Jealousy at the Best Of The Forum within the The Attraction Forums. Dating Advice.; Understanding Jealousy The topic of jealousy seems to pop up every now and again on ...
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    Understanding Jealousy

    The topic of jealousy seems to pop up every now and again on the board, and its almost always an AMOG or Jealous boyfriend.
    It's a topic that we as a community have to deal with a lot but theres not much info on it on the forum so I'm going to try to put out some understanding to it.
    I'm not a psychologist or an expert in the matter but it is something I've seen and observed a lot and I do have some insight and info about it which I'll also type up.

    Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned,
    Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.
    -William Congreve, The Mourning Bride , 1697

    When it comes to relationship Jealousy (which is the kind we deal with) you can't have the Jealousy without attraction.
    I've seen a few posts in the past where guys are asking how to make a girl they've just met and are gaming Jealous of them so she'll start chasing them, or asking about using pivots to create Jealousy.
    If the target isn't attracted to you why would she be Jealous of you talking to another girl?
    A pivot can help to create Jealousy but only after you have created attraction with the target.
    At some point in all our lives we have had to experience this feeling and In its most intense forms it is a horrible, tormenting obsession.
    Love and Jealousy are two of the most strongest and most powerful emotions we as humans have and experience, at it's strongest people have killed, ruined relationships and lost the things they've held most dear to them.
    Something along the lines of 20% to 35% of all murders involve a jealous lover.
    A third of all couples in therapy have a problem with jealousy. It is common for a jilted lover to threaten suicide, and some do it.
    Certainly power is involved; we want the power to keep our lover to ourselves exclusively, Just as falling in love seems "natural" and unlearned, so does jealousy, It just comes over us when someone or something (like work, TV, or sports or even a PUA ) threatens our love relationship.
    Of course, it isn't always painful and crazy-making, sometimes it's milder and fun--a tease-- which is the kind a pivot can help with, and a sexual turn on.
    In the most extreme case's, swapping partners.

    FEAR AND ANXIETY
    The first fear we come to is fear of loss.
    Jealousy sees many things that can be lost. The fear of loss of the lover is the greatest. The rest of the fear around jealousy is in fact anxiety, that is to say, it does not have a real object.
    The first anxiety comes from the loss of self-esteem. All kinds of self-doubt come up. You don't have enough money. Something's wrong with your body. You start projecting your own inadequacies on the other's actions. If your self-esteem is low, a jealous episode is going to be used as an occasion for proving that you are unlovable.
    In spite of Congreve's famous quote, there is some evidence that men have a more intense jealousy response to losing a loved one than women do, and they take more time to get over it (Mathes, 1988).
    --------------------
    There are five stages of jealousy (White, 1981; Brehm, 1985):
    1. Suspecting the threat: If you are insecure about a love relationship (not necessarily about yourself in general) and very dependent on your lover, you are likely to be jealous. You may see "signs" of disaster when none are there. Conversely, some people overlook very suggestive signals. In reality, 45% of the people in the Psychology Today survey had cheated on a partner while pretending to be faithful. Men are more likely to deny feeling jealous; women more readily admit it. If the threat to our relationship--the competitor--is attractive, intelligent, successful, etc., we will be more threatened and more disturbed. If we have or want an exclusive sexual relationship with our lover, we will be more threatened by a competitor than if we were in a non-sexual relationship. If we ourselves have been unfaithful to our partners, others might expect us to be less jealous if our partner also has an affair, but research shows that some unfaithful spouses are more jealous (perhaps, in these cases, the greatest threat to the relationship is when both partners have had affairs).
    2. Assessing the threat: We may spy on our lover and the rival; we probably lie awake nights worrying about the situation and reviewing the evidence, "Did she come on to him?," "I wonder if he has talked to her?," "Does he love her?," "Wonder if everybody but me knows about it?" Women are concerned about their partner becoming attracted to other women by sex, intelligence, and other attractions, and dissatisfaction with the current relationship. Thus, women feel multiple threats. Men are consciously more concerned about their partner finding someone who will offer a more secure, committed relationship. Men are more concerned (than women) about protecting or re-building their egos if they are "beaten out" by another man; they worry about their partner having sex with someone else (but they'd probably blame the partner if that did happen). Men see a threat and feel jealous first, then worry that something is wrong with them. Women are more concerned with maintaining the relationship; they worry about losing love; they feel inadequate first, then jealous. It is in this intensive worry and spying stage that we go crazy, see the discussion of irrational ideas in chapters 6, 7, and 14.
    3. Emotional reactions: If we decide there is a threat to our love, we can have a very wide range of responses: clinging dependency (more women but many men too), violent rage at the competitor or the partner (more men), morbid curiosity, self-criticism, and depression with suicidal thoughts (more women), hurt and resentment of the partner's lack of devotion and resistance, social embarrassment, selfish--sometimes realistic--concerns ("I'd better take the money out of the bank"), urge to "get back at" the partner, fear of losing companionship, loneliness, regrets at giving up all the future plans, etc., etc
    The 1950's advocated "family togetherness." In the late 1960's and 1970's there was an "open marriage" movement (O'Neill & O'Neill, 1973); we were told that jealousy was a sign of inconsiderate possessiveness and immaturity, that we were selfishly restricting our partner's love for everyone. Certainly many people tried gallantly to suppress jealous feelings while being open and modern "swingers," but many failed. At the same time, there were arguments that jealousy was a natural, inevitable, and useful reaction (Mace, 1958; Harrison, 1974). Surely, a couple deciding on exclusiveness in their love and sexual life is not always a master-slave relationship, not necessarily one-sided possessiveness. Yet, love is scary. We can be hurt; the lover has power over us; we need to be #1 in his/her life. How does someone become so important in our emotional life? In the same way The Little Prince loved his rose bush (Saints-Exupery, 1943). It's a neat part of a story.
    4. Coping response: There are two basic choices--desperately trying to shore up the threatened relationship or trying to protect or bolster your sagging ego. Men are more likely than women to become competitive and/or have angry reactions, often including getting drunk or high. Women more often become weak and depressed; sometimes they act like they don't care; more often, they cry, plead, and blame themselves (Brehm, 1985). Bar talk suggests that recently rejected lovers are sexually on the make and/or sexually "easy." An interesting study by Shettel-Neuber, Bryson, & Young (1978) suggests that men and women, when threatened by an unattractive competitor, are about as likely to go out with "someone else" and be sexually aggressive. However, when threatened by an attractive competitor, men felt an even stronger urge to make it with "someone else," while women didn't want to get involved with any other men at all.
    5. The outcome: It is important to know if particular emotional and coping responses help or harm threatened relationships. Also, do these responses build or destroy self-esteem? Both self-esteem and love are important. For instance, a threatened lover, who temporarily keeps his/her partner (and protects his/her ego) by threatening violence or suicide or by frantically begging, will probably lose the lover's respect in the process, or in other words DLV.
    I hope this helps in some way to better understand the things we have to face infield from AMOG's and BF's.
    Last edited by Stallion; 06-25-2011 at 12:11 PM.


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  2. 05-19-2006, 02:18 PM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion
    I hope you this helps in some way to understand the things we have to face infield from AMOG's and BF's.
    Not only amogs and BF's but also from our selves....im sure we all feel stints of jealousy from time to time and need to control it. Understanding where it comes from will help to control it.
    Brilliant info Stallion....as usual...
    best of vote from me.

    Malibu
    If your not enough without it....You will NEVER be enough with it

    KamaSutra,Sex Positions,Kino,Hired Guns,Inner Game,Build Trust, FTC Theory,Wings of Glory,Humour

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu
    Not only amogs and BF's but also from our selves....im sure we all feel stints of jealousy from time to time and need to control it. Understanding where it comes from will help to control it.
    Thanks for bringing this up, I hadn't thought of it like this.
    Like I said in the main post, we have had to experience this at some point in our lives, and like you've said, it is good to know where it comes from and why we feel this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu
    Brilliant info Stallion....as usual...
    best of vote from me.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by Stallion; 05-20-2006 at 11:45 AM.
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    And remember, if all else fails in set just try this, works everytime.

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    Damnit i was meant to comment on this last night.
    Its funny a thread like this pops up when you need something to read
    This was a great insight to the why/how/what jeloursy is.
    Having an understanding to an emotion helps keep the emotion under control.
    This post helps a lot and from my personal opinion i am greatfull that you posted this.
    Thanks stallion.

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    Jealousy, related to fear & guilt... JeaLOUSY kills love & is the symptom of choice for those of weak frame.
    Great post Stallion & your excellent use of quotes & the accompanying credits to back up your points is going to be very useful to people.
    You have my vote for best of.

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    Great thread. As I am fighting with jealousy right now, what do you suggest on what I could do to stop oneself from being jealous?

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    So how would one best deal with such powerful emotions? You're human, this is difficult if not impossible to avoid.

    At one point I thought that if a man were to have multiple sexual partners, such powerful emotions could be kept under control (as you wouldn't invest as much in one person since you have plenty of others).

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    Thanks man. This gave me a better look in life.

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    Dealing with Jealousy

    I have been a psychologist in the field for more than a decade, and have a peculiar insight into the topic, as I suffered from the green-eyed monster myself.
    One rule I find that is absolutely necessary, because jealousy is likened to an obsessive-compulsive disorder, is to immediately remove oneself from the situation that the patient feels "threatened" by (or "unloved" by.)
    Another rule of thumb is to get facts straight. Speculation will never amount to anything more than accusations and hurt. "Knowing" is important, and this is a tough one to tackle.
    Short of hacking the romantic interests email, there are a few tools that, although in the moral grey area, will get to the root of the issue immediately.
    At my office, we use a tool with our patients that allows them to intercept their romantic counterparts' text messages and emails. The latter is done via key-loggers (Google it, there are many), that allow getting into email.
    More importantly, however, is the interception of texts, from a mobile device. The brand we use most frequently, for Android phones, is Text Watcher, an inexpensive app that does not require a monthly subscription, and is installed by simple "checking one's email" on the targeted device.
    Here is the Text Watcher Tracking app:
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.elemental.guidefull

    Once evidence is acquired, and the jealousy is confirmed, breakup or counselling is a must. The "CONFIRMATION" IS IMPORTANT! It allows validation of fears, and can then focus on the PATTERN that is causing the behavior, which has more to do with self-worth and how we choose our partners, than it does with what those partners are like.
    There is a correlation to the self-beliefs that bring a jealous person in contact with cheaters.
    I hope this information helps some readers out there.
    Regards,
    Matt England
    BSc. Psychotherapy.

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    Your sweetheart calls you by another's name. His eyes linger too long on your best friend. He talks with excitement about a girl at work. And the fire catches. Jealousy—that sickening combination of possessiveness, suspicion, rage, and humiliation—can overtake your mind and threaten your very core as you contemplate your rival.

    The green-eyed monster, as Shakespeare called it, can camp in your head at any time during a relationship: when you are madly in love, when you are snugly attached, even when you dislike your partner. Neither gender is routinely more jealous—although women are more willing to work to win back a lover, while men tend to flaunt their money and status and are more likely to walk out to protect their self-esteem or save face.

    Jealousy bedevils other creatures, too. Primatologist Jane Goodall describes Passion, a female chimp who was tipping her buttocks toward a young male in the classic (for chimps) "come hither" pose when he ignored her and began to court another. Passion slapped him—hard. Bluebirds are also jealous. In one experiment involving a breeding pair, evolutionary biologist David Barash waited until the cock was away, and then placed a stuffed male on a branch about three feet from the nest, where the female rested. When the cock returned, he began to squawk, hover, and snap his bill in fury at the dummy. Then he attacked his mate, pulling feathers from her wing. She fled.

    Why do we feel jealousy? Therapists often regard the demon as a scar of childhood trauma or a symptom of a psychological problem. And it's true that people who feel inadequate, insecure, or overly dependent tend to be more jealous than others. But the "monster" actually evolved for positive reasons. Throughout our primordial past it discouraged desertion by a mate, bolstering the family unit and enabling the survival of the young. At the same time, it has pushed us to abandon philanderers—and many a futile match—in favor of more stable and rewarding partnerships. Jealousy can even be good for love. One partner may feel secretly flattered when the other is mildly jealous. And catching someone flirting with your beloved can spark the kind of lust and romance that reignites a relationship.

    But jealousy can go seriously awry. Some people, for no apparent reason, become consumed by it, undermining their self-esteem, and even driving their partner into another's arms—the very outcome they had feared. In the worst cases, they become violent. (Jealousy is indeed a leading cause of spousal homicide worldwide.)

    So what can you do if jealousy is making you miserable? First, figure out whether he's actually cheating. If he is, you have a different problem: what to do about your relationship. But if you find yourself snooping through your lover's pockets, or reading his e-mails on the sly, stop. This is demeaning to you. Explain that you are working to control your suspicion but would like him to help you by not provoking it. And if you can't stop spying or obsessing (and many of us can't), it's time to consult a mental health professional. Ultimately, though, you may never feel emotionally secure with a flirtatious mate—in which case you might consider some wisdom from Zen philosophy: The way out is through the door.

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